***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

Tax rates have relatively been the same to me since every year it's just been an extension of Bush's tax cuts. So pretty much the same as before.

Same with Health insurance.. had it before.. same today other than my employer paying higher premiums.

Personal savings/investments are a lot better but damn stocks have been taking a beating the past few months!

It's great to see military friends/family back home and not being deployed every other year so for that I Thank Obama regardless if the rest of the world has become more effed up.

Race relations is what scares me because it seems in general Christian whites these days are no longer tolerant of Muslims, select minorities, illegals and the poor. A klansman type candidate like Trump being the front runner today is just shocking considering he has so much support.

I will miss Obama... dude is pretty cool guy.. but being cool doesn't get crap done in Washington.

I disagree. In my lifetime, race relations have been about the same. We just have more outlets (social media) to see racism now. Plus, as always, negativity gets more attention then positivity. For example, the news was quick to show the "riots" after Freddie Grey was killed, but networks barely showed all the people (white, black and Hispanic) who peacefully protested days before. Or how recently there was a poll that around half of white Americans feel police brutality against blacks is a problem. But the media will have you thinking the only white person that cares about Police brutality is Shaun King

What I will say is that race relations haven't improved at the rate they did between 50s - 80s. I think people thought they were going to continue to improve at that same rate and, frankly, they haven't.

I don't think we're regressing, I think we're just not improving as quickly as before. But the fact a black guy named Barack Hussein Obama is President at all, says at least some improvement was made.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I maybe hating but if you look at the last 7 years.. .how did you PERSONALLY benefited from his policies?

From health insurance, tax rates, personal savings, income/job growth, education, and race relations.

Has it gotten worst or better for you personally?

-Health Insurance:

I got health insurance because of the ACA for a short time.

ore importantly, my mom got coverage covered and they were able to catch her breast cancer very early. My mother hadn't been to a doctor in like 6 years, she is over 50, without her getting covered and going to the doctor. She literally might be dead

Every time I see my premiums increase a lil, that thought shuts me up. But that me, not tryna guilt anyone

Scary thing is that my story is not unique. Looking at the data, plenty of sick folk and using their insurance and getting checked out. I could only imagine what things they are finding out

-Tax Rates:

Remain pretty much the same. I'm actually in favor of the Bush Tax cuts expiring for everyone. So yes, I'm in favor on my taxes being raised. Because the nation needs the money

-Personal Savings:

I don't how Obama can be held responsible for my person savings. The economy is doing much better under him.

I lost my job because of the recession now job offers are plentiful, plus the IBR for my student loans has helped me a lot

-Education:

Nothing really for me, I don't know how he has impacted my education. Maybe if the economic turnaround happen at a different time my choices would be better

-Race Relations:

Worst, and I can tell.

Obama presidency sparked a fire under a new generation of African America to demand more from America. Especially since they thought there was someone within the system that would take their concerns seriously. Which is good

And there was a major blow black against blacks, liberals, and other minority groups for electing a black man. White supremacist by the way of the Tea Party and awoken a large number of people to the fact that there are enough liberal and progressives around now that oppressing minorities is not gonna be an easy task

Worst off far right conservatives people now feel they are being marginalized, and oppressed whenever they see a minority group doing well.

Which is causing folk to lash out even more now, because they feel they are doing for a large cause, that they are fighting for something.

 

[sundoobie]

^ Good read
Hope your mom is well now!

 

[RustyShackleford]

I would personally rather have our president be feared than revered. The people may like him but i don't think the leaders respect or fear him at all. What's his reputation among dictators and our enemies? Wayyy too many red lines that didn't amount to anything. Syria red line, assad must go, iran testing ballistic missiles and the WH announcing sanctions only to back down a day later, Putin DGAF.

I disagree.

American's president doesn't need to be a tyrant or a bully or hawkish to do his job. He doesn't need to be sending kids to die recklessly constantly, or carpet bombing countries and creating tons of collateral either. Just to he can make sure people fear him

I don't know what makes you say leaders don't respect him. Who Putin? Netanyahu? It seems like most world leader respect the man. Being hawkish generally doesn't earn the US president a lot of respect

And you want to talking about fearing Obama? :

I simply don't sleep much better knowing that Europeans love obama given the fact that i think Europe is going to ****. Countries like germany have put multiculturalism above their nation's identity and security. As a result you will see ultra right wing national parties gaining massive support. We even have our own version in Trump.

How is Europe going to **** exactly, because of Syrians refugees, Is that what you're implying? Because I know you're not taking economically.

Germany has other motivation for welcoming in refugees. Their birthrate is low, and they desperately wanted to increase it, and when that happens a ticking time bomb gets put on your economy. Plus an influx of immigrants and new labor will increase production. Another benefit for their economy

There are benefits to immigration. When the GOP wasn't fear mongering back in the 1980s, they used to talk about them all the time.

Secondly, there you go sympathizing with bigots once again. Oh lawd, oh lawd, would someone please think of the white supremacist.

And you can't even cry foul this time. Nazis are some of the most pure forms of white supremacist.

Not matter what you think you're countires problems are, they're are ways to thing fix them without indulging in that sort of hatred. Whether is be Nazis in Germany, or supporting Trump in America

If you're not willing to entertain them because your bigotry won't let to then.......................**** OFF. Seriously this argument has been made over and over:

-We can't end slavery; think of the South

-We can't give blacks civil rights; it will upset bigots

-Women shouldn't be allowed to vote; it will piss men off

I could go on and on. If some people are concern about the economic consequences of some altruistic actions or policy decisions, fine.

But I no one should be entertaining folk not willing to see beyond their hatred. Drag them kicking and screaming into the future. Sometimes, it has to be done

The middle east was crap before obama but it's impossible to argue that he hasn't made it worse. Taking out Gaddafi sure didn't help. Our traditional allies don't trust him. Pushing hard for the muslim brotherhood in Egypt. Giving iraq to iran. It's gonna get really bad.

The middle east has always been bad, and it has always been partly America's fault, and the condition getting worst can't all be placed on Obama. Not even when some of it happen under his presidency. And that does for the last couple presidents as well

Traditional allies I assume you mean Israel? Yeah Netanyahu and his fear mongering can go jump off a cliff. I consider it a HUGE positive Obama didn't bend to his will

We give them money, we help keep them safe, we turn a blind eye to how they terrorized some of the people in the region and they want to be upset at us. Bibi please

Let them stay rustled, maybe they will learn a lesson.

And don't even try the "hlding them to hire standards" argument. If a kid gets caught talking in class, it is not a valid excuse to say "but other people are talking".

Plus I think he gets a HUGE pass for TPP when liberals would have destroyed bush

But to make it clear yes he is absolutely a better president than bush. I just think that's a low bar as he was horrible

Liberals have been ripping into him for it. Go read Reddit, read NT's thread about it. They don't like it and don't understand how he doesn't see it is a good idea.

But of course anyone would give Obama a break over Bush. Obama has been good on way more than he was been bad on.

Bush was damb near top to bottom ****. That is why most liberal beefs with Obama are from continuing programs started under Bush, the TPP fits into that category too

Bush had already exhausted all the good will the nation had for him after 6 years. Obama hadn't

I don't like the TPP. I have an economics background so maybe I hate it less than most, but I still dislike it

This will end up being to Obama what the 'Tough on Crime" bill was to Clinton. Some that had a few benefits, but they will some day regret because they didn't heed to warnings.

-And the TPP is has not passed yet btw

 

[RustyShackleford]

^ Good read
Hope your mom is well now!

That pa

She flourishin right now.

She happy, healthy, working, loving life, pestering me to give her grandkids, and mailing me all sorts of struggle pottery she be making (it is her new hobby )

 

[duba169]

It sounds like iran is releasing the journalist and a few other hostages in a prsioner swap. This is great news even though alot of the talk will be about the swap being lopsided in numbers. I wonder if this was the plan by both sides to wait until right before implementation day to show a sense of good will before the money flows.

 

[RustyShackleford]

The GOP just lost a major talking point.

And it is lopsided, in the US's favor. If the USA and Iran weren't on good terms because of the Nuclear deal, all 10 US sailors would be captives too.

So leading with diplomacy brought 15 Americans home.

Thanks Obama

 

[rustlenomics]

setup for the debate tomorrow this was on wednesday.

 

[duba169]

It's going far to say the US and Iran are on "good terms". I doubt they would use the images of the navy on their knees for propaganda purposes or make one of them apologize on camera for public consumption if they were on "good terms".

Lets see how things go now that they will get 100 billion and much more. The ME will very likely get even crazier over the next decade. Its going to be interesting to watch.

 

[RustyShackleford]

It's going far to say the US and Iran are on "good terms". I doubt they would use the images of the navy on their knees for propaganda purposes or make one of them apologize on camera for public consumption if they were on "good terms".

Lets see how things go now that they will get 100 billion and much more. The ME will very likely get even crazier over the next decade. Its going to be interesting to watch.

There on much better term than they were before the nuclear deal, aren't they?

And this "Iran used the sailor as propaganda" is petty delfection from the fact that if Iran and the US was still at odds, these sailors would be be prisoners right. Period

People like John McCain, the entire GOP, and even your brah, where complaining about how little we got from the deal, and how Iran couldn't be trusted. And twice within a week big holes have been poked into that argument.

First it was a bad deal, but now that is has paid off from America, it is "it will be interesting to see"

Ok famb

 

[duba169]

No i think the deal is still terrible and will cause severe long term negative effects. They are going to try to become the number one regional power and the sunni shia tensions will be getting even crazier. the mullahs will remain in charge now with much more money and power and tacit backing by obama and Hillary if she wins.

They will eventually get a nuke anyway. Countries doing massive amouhts of business with them will turn a blind eye to any possible infractions.

I would love to be wrong though

The way you talk about what happened it is like you expect people to be happy that iran had the balls to capture two navy boats and take propoganda videos. They let them go because they had billions of dollars coming to them, not amazing diplomacy.

They just launched two ballistic missles. Obama said some sanctions woukd be brought as a result. Then they disappeared abruptly. You have your head in the sand if you don't think iran knows it can do whatever they want at least until obama is gone. And they will test him before he leaves.

 

[RustyShackleford]

If Iran violates, it will get sanctioned again, we have been over this

You just refuse to admit that the improved relationship between the two countries is the reason 15 Americans are not/will no longer be imprisoned

 

[blco02]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...42d488-bc73-11e5-99f3-184bc379b12d_story.html

"2 Americans believed detained in Iran are not among those coming home"

As the families of Americans celebrate the release of their loved ones held in Iran, the authorities in Tehran said they would not be freeing a businessman arrested in October and were silent on the fate of a former FBI agent who disappeared in the country.

 

[Nike Jordan]

Why do so many cons want to go to war with Iran?

 

[duba169]

If Iran violates, it will get sanctioned again, we have been over this

You just refuse to admit that the improved relationship between the two countries is the reason 15 Americans are not/will no longer be imprisoned

The ten navy members were never "imprisoned" first of all and weren't part of the prisoner swap.

It's very naive to think iran will easily be sanctioned again when russia, china, france, and germany are all doing alot of business with them. Their infractions will be downplayed or ignored.

You refuse to see that the fact iran held that reporter so long, captured two navy boats and took videos of the crew, launched 2 ballitic missle tests... all of that is because they are testing obama and showing the world that the US is all talk. There is very little they can do that will make obama put his legacy issue in distress.

I think that once we give them the money. And yes it is their money. The so called improved relations will get worse and worse. My fear is how they act once they got the prize they have been seeking

I hope i am wrong and he really is nixon opening china. I would LOVE to be wrong on this issue. I 100 percent hope you are right and i am wrong.

 

[Deleted member 38307]

http://www.economist.com/news/unite...-proposals-are-exorbitant-indecent-disclosure

Read this.

 

[dathbgboy]

Problems in the Middle East won't ever go away, since the majority stem from territory and nationality issues at best. You see how it's been divided by other nations and not the nations there and you see why it's a problem. The U.S. getting involved in other problems going on over there doesn't help either

Why do so many cons want to go to war with Iran?

Profit. There's not profit in peace. That and the ignorant notion of us being the greatest nation ever and that we'll lay down the law anywhere w/o consequence.

 

[RustyShackleford]

If Iran violates, it will get sanctioned again, we have been over this

You just refuse to admit that the improved relationship between the two countries is the reason 15 Americans are not/will no longer be imprisoned

The ten navy members were never "imprisoned" first of all and weren't part of the prisoner swap.

It's very naive to think iran will easily be sanctioned again when russia, china, france, and germany are all doing alot of business with them. Their infractions will be downplayed or ignored.

You refuse to see that the fact iran held that reporter so long, captured two navy boats and took videos of the crew, launched 2 ballitic missle tests... all of that is because they are testing obama and showing the world that the US is all talk. There is very little they can do that will make obama put his legacy issue in distress.

I think that once we give them the money. And yes it is their money. The so called improved relations will get worse and worse. My fear is how they act once they got the prize they have been seeking

I hope i am wrong and he really is nixon opening china. I would LOVE to be wrong on this issue. I 100 percent hope you are right and i am wrong.

-I know the 10 navy members where not imprisoned, that's my point. They would have been if the US and Iran were still at odds. you want to harp on Iran using them as "propaganda", never mentioning that those sailors didn't something wrong, and could have paid a far greater price.

-You once again are acting like it is only the USA that are lifting sanction. All the countries you mentioned are in on the deal. If Iran violates, then they face punishment from all of them. And if it is just America that want to put back on sanction, then that might be a signal we are the ones being unreasonable.

-Stop saying sanctions can be put back into place. They can, relatively easily. Yes they might money flowing into the country, but if sanctions go back up, that will be a finite amount. It will run out, the economy will tank again. Just look as Russia.....But oye I forgot, the GOP want to say sanctions were bad in that case because we should have sent troops. More hypocrisy.

-Why do you have such a hard on for America not looking "weak". Every logical person in the world knows America's military is unmatched. If the USA could serve any country a fade whenever they wanted. I think it is much more important for the USA to appear reasonable. Appearing 'strong' is not gonna stop a terrorist, or Putin, to do anything. Matter of fact, it will let them know they can bait the US into larger conflicts.

-America is not the good guy in the middle east. It is a player. The right loves to bring up Iran sponsoring terrorism but America terrorizes plenty of innocent people with drone strikes, directly supports Israel (who terrorize plenty of Palestinians, and don't even come with "holding them to a higher standard" steez), and one of our biggest allies in the region, Saudi Arabia, is one of the biggest sponsors of terror. So that argument is draped in hypocrisy

-I'm not arguing like the Iran deal is this amazing thing, or that Iran wouldn't violate it, or that it is a shinning example of diplomacy. I'm saying that people like you are so rustled about it too much. It is goes south, there is a simple course of action. And most of the arguments against it are hypocritical

So excuse me for not believing the chicken little act the GOP are doing.

-And you where rustling about Obama following through with sanction for missile test.

WELP, once again you are welcome.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/c317...-new-iran-sanctions-ballistic-missile-testing

 

[RustyShackleford]

Why do so many cons want to go to war with Iran?

-For profit. War is good for military contractors and the GOP love to indulge this groups lobbying.

-For there to be a boogieman out there to scare people

Because if you scare folk enough, people lose their common sense and vote against their self interest.

They give the power to the guy promising to keep them 'safe' over everything else.

Some people will lose sight of the GOP disgusting stances on social issues, and failed economic policies. All because they think they are the ones that will do whatever it takes to keep them "safe".

 

[duba169]

On a lighter note. Bernie sanders has never worn a tuxedo.

http://time.com/4183883/bernie-sanders-tuxedo-never-worn/

 

[rexanglorum]

I wish that Democrats would take the bull by the horns and flip the whole "safety" narrative. I want Bernie or Hillary or even Martin O'Malley to go off and say how the GOP will make you unsafe from tainted food to leaden water to militarized police to their coddling of Saudi Arabia to their dislike of work place safety regulations, the GOP is a massive health and safety hazard.

I also wish that the GOP would go after the personal life of the GOP candidates. i do not mean, go after their kids or spouses but undermine their personal stories. Since the GOP believes that governing is no ta skill or a vocation, they all are running on their personal narrative. I wish that the Dems would tal kabout the issues but work in counter narratives and undermine the ridiculously contrived hardscrabble narratives that most of the GOP field has about themselves.

Use Donald Trump's cynical use of subsidies to talk about welfare for businessmen. Talk about Kasich and Bush's corrupt Lehman Brothers tenures when you talk about Wall Street reform. Talk about how Rubio has had a billionaire benefactor all of his political life when you talk about campaign financing. Go after Christie and mention that the reason he became US Attorney is because he raised money for George W. Bush and he got his job as a result of a quid pro quo. When they talk about criminal justice reform, try to find any instance of Christie being an overzealous prosecutor. Be sure to emphasize their combined zero years of military experience.

Talk about the issues but also do your best to dismantle these absurd GOP personal narratives and expose them for being everything they profess to hate; lawyers, lobbyists, career politicians, welfare recipients, dandies and above all, cowards.

 

[duba169]

Now this is how you do propaganda. Gotta hand it to iran. They DGAF.




A senior Iranian military commander in charge of the country’s Revolutionary Guard Corps claimed that the 10 U.S. sailors who were recently captured and subsequently released by the Islamic Republic “started crying after [their] arrest,” according to Persian language comments made during military celebrations this weekend.

Hossein Salami, deputy commander of the IRGC, which is responsible for boarding the U.S. ships and arresting the sailors, claimed in recent remarks, the “American sailors started crying after arrest, but the kindness of our Guard made them feel calm.”

Hossein went on to brag that the incident provides definitive evidence of the Iranian military’s supremacy in the region.

“Since the end of the Second World War, no country has been able to arrest American military personnel,” the commander said, according to an independent translation of his Persian-language remarks made Friday during a “martyrs’ commemoration ceremony” in Isfahan.

Since the capture and release of the U.S. sailors this week, critics of the Obama administration’s handling of the situation have expressed embarrassment at State Department’s move to profusely thank Iran, despite its release of photos depicting the sailors on their knees with their hands held over their heads.

Iranian state television additionally published video purporting to show one of the detained soldiers apologizing to Iran.

Meanwhile, during Friday prayers in Iran, a commander of the IRGC unit that detained the U.S. boats and claimed that the American military cowered when faced down by Iranian troops.

“I saw the weakness, cowardice, and fear of American soldiers myself. Despite having all of the weapons and equipment, they surrendered themselves with the first action of the guardians of Islam,” Ahmad Dolabi, an IRGC commander, said in Persian-language remarks at a prayer service in Iran’s Bushehr providence.

“American forces receive the best training and have the most advanced weapons in the world,” he added. “But they did not have the power to confront the Guard due to weakness of faith and belief.”

Dolabi emphasized that the Obama administration formally apologized over the incident, a claim that senior White House official continue to dispute.

“We gave all of the weapons and equipment to American forces according to an Islamic manner. They formally apologized to the Islamic Republic,” Dolabi said. “Be certain that with the blood of martyrs, the revolution advances. No one can inflict the smallest insult upon our Islamic country.”


http://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-american-sailors-started-crying-after-arrest/

 

[duba169]

Rex there really isn't any reason for democrats to go that hard on the GOP until the general election. At least imo. Should save it

But note that Hillary better be careful when accusing others of corruption. It can come right back

 

[rustlenomics]

Since it's happening already and I maybe won't get in trouble.

Saw the homie dr.cornel west too

 

[RustyShackleford]

Now this is how you do propaganda. Gotta hand it to iran. They DGAF.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

A senior Iranian military commander in charge of the country’s Revolutionary Guard Corps claimed that the 10 U.S. sailors who were recently captured and subsequently released by the Islamic Republic “started crying after [their] arrest,” according to Persian language comments made during military celebrations this weekend.

Hossein Salami, deputy commander of the IRGC, which is responsible for boarding the U.S. ships and arresting the sailors, claimed in recent remarks, the “American sailors started crying after arrest, but the kindness of our Guard made them feel calm.”

Hossein went on to brag that the incident provides definitive evidence of the Iranian military’s supremacy in the region.

“Since the end of the Second World War, no country has been able to arrest American military personnel,” the commander said, according to an independent translation of his Persian-language remarks made Friday during a “martyrs’ commemoration ceremony” in Isfahan.

Since the capture and release of the U.S. sailors this week, critics of the Obama administration’s handling of the situation have expressed embarrassment at State Department’s move to profusely thank Iran, despite its release of photos depicting the sailors on their knees with their hands held over their heads.

Iranian state television additionally published video purporting to show one of the detained soldiers apologizing to Iran.

Meanwhile, during Friday prayers in Iran, a commander of the IRGC unit that detained the U.S. boats and claimed that the American military cowered when faced down by Iranian troops.

“I saw the weakness, cowardice, and fear of American soldiers myself. Despite having all of the weapons and equipment, they surrendered themselves with the first action of the guardians of Islam,” Ahmad Dolabi, an IRGC commander, said in Persian-language remarks at a prayer service in Iran’s Bushehr providence.

“American forces receive the best training and have the most advanced weapons in the world,” he added. “But they did not have the power to confront the Guard due to weakness of faith and belief.”

Dolabi emphasized that the Obama administration formally apologized over the incident, a claim that senior White House official continue to dispute.

“We gave all of the weapons and equipment to American forces according to an Islamic manner. They formally apologized to the Islamic Republic,” Dolabi said. “Be certain that with the blood of martyrs, the revolution advances. No one can inflict the smallest insult upon our Islamic country.”


http://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-american-sailors-started-crying-after-arrest

/

Continues to ignore the fact that that those sailors goofed, that's what allowed them to be captured, and they would be in prison right now if it weren't for us being on better terms.

I rather be made fun of than be a prison of Iran. Which one would you prefer?