***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[mplsdunk]

Culture wars>>> water wars.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

The "indoctrination" I have a problem with is this genderbread person resource
and in general teaching that everyone has a "gender identity" separate from sex, and you can change sex.

that stuff seems to be pretty prevalent in public schools systems in canada. and I don't trust schools to handle that properly.

but I don't really have a choice with that.

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

I also think gender identity is a fundamentally incoherent concept and attempts to enshrine it into law are unworkable and inevitably lead to absurdities.

Lots of straw men in your post that I don’t have the time or inclination to address. If you want, re-read what I actually wrote and whether you think I’m not subjecting young people ideas to scrutiny. It’s quite possible that I do that and still reach a different conclusion from you. It’s possible that some of this is “mute”

The original anecdote I shared was on gender preferences, not identity. I hadn’t spoken to identity, but somehow that’s where you ended. And I’d say the ratio of my gender identity posts to yours is under 1%. It’s just not a topic I feel comfortable opining on because it’s a topic in rapid flux and my own background is hopelessly outdated.

But I think my young friend might align with you a bit. It’s the need for strict categorization and roles that leads to much of the incoherency you allude to. If you don’t need to be a man or a woman or whatever and can just do what you want, then I think there will be less dysmorphia. But who knows? It’s all getting written in real time.

Just so I understand, are you advocating that we force gender expression to align to genetic material? Or if not force, treat people with the intention of convincing them to express in alignment with their genetics? Like, how would you do things differently in terms of encoding social interaction in laws and policy?

And, while we’re at it, how do you distinguish identity from expression, in other words, what is gender identity to you other than a collection of expressions?

 

[Nike Jordan]

Blue's Clues is a private entity.

Nobody is forcing you to watch it.

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

Blue's Clues is a private entity.

Nobody is forcing you to watch it.

People want to delegate the raising of their kids to TV, but they want TV to be accountable to their own beliefs. Duh!

 

[1995]

I have some strong doubts about the ability of Blue's Clues to turn kids gay with the power of suggestion

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Just so I understand, are you advocating that we force gender expression to align to genetic material? Or if not force, treat people with the intention of convincing them to express in alignment with their genetics? Like, how would you do things differently in terms of encoding social interaction in laws and policy?

I think we should be kind to be people and accommodate vulnerable people in our socitey.
so people suffering from gender dysphoria we should accommodate their choice of pronouns and identity.

but admittance into sex segregated spaces, sports, women's shelters, women's prisons ect should be allowed probably on a case by case basis.

And, while we’re at it, how do you distinguish identity from expression, in other words, what is gender identity to you other than a collection of expressions?

I think people have various personality characteristics, some of which broadly correlate with sex.
and human beings being a social animal we construct various stereotypes and expectations based on these characteristics.

"gender" is no different than any other identity marker, it just correlates to sex so it looms large in society.

I don't believe there is a gender spirit that lives inside you, or there is unfalsifiable gender identity that can only be accessed by each individual.
or trans people have a "female brain" I think a lot of those ideas are reductive and regressive.

 

[mister friendly]

Sorry but this post sounds silly as hell to me.

Blue Clues is not the only program for children's television. You are just using it because you think it supports your point, while ignoring examples that undercut it

It really seems that you are coming close to implying that the LGBTQ community is trying to indoctrinate kids into being gay and trans to keep their numbers up. That there is some nefarious plan

I don't think there is any Koolaid being served. It just seems like you are being sensitive, and fragile, about something that is innocuous

So what if kids learn these people exist, and there is nothing wrong with that?

And again, you can change the damn channel

I’m not implying it, I’m absolutely saying it. Some shows are trying to indoctrinate children.

Blue Clues handles the most simple concepts and then jumps to LGBT multiple times with nothing in between. They are indoctrinating.

I never said it was the only program for kids that’s a conclusion you came to.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I’m not implying it, I’m absolutely saying it. Some shows are trying to indoctrinate children.

Blue Clues handles the most simple concepts and then jumps to LGBT multiple times with nothing in between. They are indoctrinating.

I never said it was the only program for kids that’s a conclusion you came to.

Then you saying some ridiculous idiotic nonsense that is drench in bigotry

And I mentioned how other shows, using Sesame St. as and example, and you ignored that to stay hung up on Blue Clues.

So spare me.

 

[Mark Antony]

I’m not implying it, I’m absolutely saying it. Some shows are trying to indoctrinate children.

Blue Clues handles the most simple concepts and then jumps to LGBT multiple times with nothing in between. They are indoctrinating.

I never said it was the only program for kids that’s a conclusion you came to.

How are your children handling it?

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

I think we should be kind to be people and accommodate vulnerable people in our socitey.
so people suffering from gender dysphoria we should accommodate their choice of pronouns and identity.

but admittance into sex segregated spaces, sports, women's shelters, women's prisons ect should be allowed probably on a case by case basis.




I think people have various personality characteristics, some of which broadley correlate with sex.
and human beings being a social animal we construct various stereotypes and expectations based on these characteristics.

"gender" is no different than any other identity marker, it just correlates to sex so it looms large in society.

I don't believe there is a gender spirit that lives inside you, or there is unfalsifiable gender identity that can only be accessed by each individual.
or trans people have a "female brain" I think a lot of those ideas are reductive and regressive.

Thanks for the clear answer.

I really think you’re closer to most of the upung people I talk to than not. I think identity as a whole is increasingly something people understand to be transient and evolving.

The women’s shelter thing is a good example of one where young people aren’t experienced enough in related phenomena for me to give much weight to their opinions, but now I’m curious to see what they think. My young acquaintances have you to thank for a bunch of new questions from me.

 

[chao7]

Denying anyone basic civil rights or not treating them like a human being will always be wrong. I would imagine it's a difficult enough experience to be Trans without people around you intentionally making it harder.

My thing is this...it feels as though we've gotten to a point where certain people want more than that. Maybe it's like RustyShackleford said and average gay and Trans people just want to be able to live their lives. And it's LibsofTikTok or other outlets wanting to push additional narratives.

But you see things like "Trans women ARE women", or an implication that there is no difference between a Trans woman and a biological woman. I have to disagree with that statement. It feels akin to trying to tell someone 2+2 is actually 3 and you're a bigot for pointing out that's objectively not true.

Again, it's not like I would go up to people on the street and just insult or demean them on purpose. But I'm not going to be shouted down for stating a fact.

 

[mister friendly]

I don’t give a care about SS, I’m talking about the show I mentioned relative to the post there’s no solicitation of children.

Think it’s idiotic right on, I think you’re an idiot to think it’s ok for toddlers to watch this.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I don’t give a care about SS, I’m talking about the show I mentioned relative to the post there’s no solicitation of children.

Think it’s idiotic right on, I think you’re an idiot to think it’s ok for toddlers to watch this.

I gave as a counter example. You wanted to use Blue Clues to talking about what happens in children shoes, but I am pointing out that once you go beyond that one show, you find examples of other subjects being discussed

I don't give a **** about you not caring Seseme Street existence. I am pointing you the existence of it destroys your silly argument. Blue Clues is not the only kids show, you can change the damn channel

You are in here talking about you being worried about a nefarious conspiracy by gay people to turn kids gay and trans.

That is plain stupid

The opinion of something that thinks like that means ******* nothing to me. Call me an idiot, I don't give a ****.

Just say you are scare of having a gay or trans kid, and you are too much of a coward to admit it.

And end this nonsensical "indoctrination" rigamarole

 

[lobotomybeats]

I would change my username to Mute Point in a heartbeat if it wouldn’t confuse the hell out of everyone.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Great callback Lobo to My Beats

 

[cragmatic]

Bluey is where it’s at.

 

[mister friendly]

What was my argument involving Sesame Street or any other children’s shows besides BC?

 

[gry60]

I’m not sure if y’all watch children’s programs but they talk about the most basic tasks and interactions. “ Is this an umbrella?” “ Is this person happy?

Pull me up some Blue Clues talking about semi-complex concepts like bullying or depression. You can’t. They don’t even teach on racism ,sexism or discrimination. Things children will be aware of but yet they want to talk about allies, LGBT and non binary people to toddlers?

My kids love Bluey and I do remember one episode where they touched on corporal punishment using balloons. So yeah, they do address complex stuff; however, it's usually parents/adults who will catch the hidden themes, just like Pixar movies.

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[1995]

I won't let my kids watch Sesame Street because they might turn into vampires if they see The Count

 

[stuntman mike]

lmao the same people crying about blues clues “indoctrination” probably would not hesitate to let their kids watch veggie tales. that was the one and only show that we deliberately phased out for my son (veggie tales).

 

[cragmatic]

I won't let my kids watch Sesame Street because they might turn into vampires if they see The Count

My daughter already loves Elmo, but right now she is obsessed with Pikachu she can watch the Pokémon sing along songs over and over lol.

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

Bluey is where it’s at.

Bandit makes me feel inadequate. Where does he get the time and energy? Make it make sense!

 

[dragicon]

Bandit makes me feel inadequate. Where does he get the time and energy? Make it make sense!

Each episode is only 6-7 min long. I like to think that for the rest of the 23+ hours a day that he is browsing NT, in order to make myself feel better.