***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[osh kosh bosh]

Majority wins. Sorry, bigots aren't the majority. Keep your kid home and turn off the TV. Hope they enjoy that life.

dude relax im not being a bigot

For transgenderism some people might think 4 is the appropriate age some people might think 8 some people might think 14.
those are all legitimate discussions.

all im saying is socitey has to allow for those conversations given the public nature of schools.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Sorry but I think it is a bit naive to act like there are perfect democratic systems that are shaping stuff like healthcare and education policy that aligns with majority opinions

I mean, c'mon now

im not saying they are perfect, im not even saying they reach the right outcomes. in fact it's extremely messy.
schools switched to whole language learning over phonics despite little evidence it worked better than phonics.
it's messy and produces wrong outcomes all the time

im just saying there isn't really another option, we live in a democratic socitey with public school systems.

people are gunna have differences on when and how things should be taught.
and dismissing it all as bigotry isn't going to make the conflict go away..

 

[dblplay1212]

dude relax im not being a bigot

For transgenderism some people might think 4 is the appropriate age some people might think 8 some people might think 14.
those are all legitimate discussions.

all im saying is socitey has to allow for those conversations given the public nature of schools.

Why? It exists. Why would it take to 14 to let a kid know something exists? Why? Please explain. Anything else on your list? Any animals they can't know about? Anything on the map they can't lean about? Any countries need to be hidden? How about religions? Any religions on your list too icky for a kid to know exist? Please name something else that exists that a kid can't know exists until they are 14. I really want to see your list.

I have a 5 year old. Since she was like two we've made it a point to let know there are no rules. If Ken wants to wear Barbie's skirt, cool. There are no freaking rules in this ****.

 

[mister friendly]

What exactly is the issue here? They aren't trying to convert anyone, they are just showing it exists in the world. Why in that an issue?

You sound like white people mad that black people were being forced won their throat bc of the Cosby Show and Good Times.

Toddlers aren’t processing all those concepts. It’s just throwing s**** on the wall and see if it will stick. There’s always been vaguely LGBT in children’s shows but this is rather flagrant. Find me another Blue Clues episode with that many flags and such imagery for a cause?
The conservative parents have a point.

 

[dblplay1212]

These same people think kids are too fragile to know people that share their skin tons did some really ******* up things in the past. They blame it "My kid will feel guilty!" For what? I've never in my life felt guilty for something I didn't do. I can have empathy for those affected without feeling guilty. We literally banned books in Florida bc it said Rosa Parks was forced to move to the back of the bus bc she was black. THAT LITERALLY HAPPENED! Why do we have to act like it didn't? Another one was banned bc it said Hank Aaron wasn't allowed to play with the white kids in Alabama. THAT HAPPENED. Why act like it didn't?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Why? It exists. Why would it take to 14 to let a kid know something exists? Why? Please explain. Anything else on your list? Any animals they can't know about? Anything on the map they can't lean about? Any countries need to be hidden? How about religions? Any religions on your list too icky for a kid to know exist? Please name something else that exists that a kid can't know exists until they are 14. I really want to see your list.

I have a 5 year old. Since she was like two we've made it a point to let know there are no rules. If Ken wants to wear Barbie's skirt, cool. There are no freaking rules in this ****.

I can't tell if this is trolling?
Plenty of things get gatekept based on age.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

These same people think kids are too fragile to know people that share their skin tons did some really ****ing up things in the past. They blame it "My kid will feel guilty!" For what? I've never in my life felt guilty for something I didn't do. I can have empathy for those affected without feeling guilty. We literally banned books in Florida bc it said Rosa Parks was forced to move to the back of the bus bc she was black. THAT LITERALLY HAPPENED! Why do we have to act like it didn't? Another one was banned bc it said Hank Aaron wasn't allowed to play with the white kids in Alabama. THAT HAPPENED. Why act like it didn't?

I really don't understand what you are ranting about.

Im pointing out the reality of public education. im not endorsing whatever reactionary parents do.

 

[dblplay1212]

Toddlers aren’t processing all those concepts. It’s just throwing s**** on the wall and see if it will stick. There’s always been vaguely LGBT in children’s shows but this is rather flagrant. Find me another Blue Clues episode with that many flags and such imagery for a cause?
The conservative parents have a point.

No, they don't. Ever. Ever. Ever. **** all of those bigots.

And who says they need to process anything? They just need to know things other than mom and dad exist. Why is that a bad thing? It's not even that serious. It's just showing things other than the traditional norms exist.

 

[dblplay1212]

I really don't understand what you are ranting about.

Im pointing out the reality of public education. im not endorsing whatever reactionary parents do.

That book was literally banned in Florida. Duval County to be exact. You cool with that? Or is that not ok but acting like trans people don't exist is ok? Make up your mind here.

 

[gry60]

We grew up in a time where a lot of adult were on the "wrong side of history"

They were on the wrong side of history because the knowledge they received was pretty much outdated by the time we went to school to learn about the same topics: just look at how geography changed between the 70s (my father's time in k-12) and the 90s (my time in k-12).

The same thing is happening to our generation, and it will happen to gen-Z when they become parents.

 

[mister friendly]

Why dowe need age guidelines or ratings for anything? As long as the parent says it’s fine?

 

[dblplay1212]

They were on the wrong side of history because the knowledge they received was pretty much outdated by the time we went to school to learn about the same topics: just look at how geography changed between the 70s (my father's time in k-12) and the 90s (my time in k-12).

The same thing is happening to our generation, and it will happen to gen-Z when they become parents.

Well said.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

That book was literally banned in Florida. Duval County to be exact. You cool with that? Or is that not ok but acting like trans people don't exist is ok? Make up your mind here.

I don't think you are getting it.
just read what I wrote. I promise you'll easily be able to predict what I think about this.

 

[RustyShackleford]

im not saying they are perfect, im not even saying they reach the right outcomes. in fact it's extremely messy.
schools switched to whole language learning over phonics despite little evidence it worked better than phonics.
it's messy and produces wrong outcomes all the time

im just saying there isn't really another option, we live in a democratic socitey with public school systems.

people are gunna have differences on when and how things should be taught.
and dismissing it all as bigotry isn't going to make the conflict go away..

Ok fine. Fair enough

But I think that a lot of bigots are hiding behind the "concerned parents" schtick. And use non-democratic methods too, to impose the wishes on other students and parents.

If all these parents were simply concerned about the timing of subjects being introduced to kinds, we would be having very local discussions about making small tweaks to school curriculum.

But that is not what we are seeing. We are seeing state level action that bans a ton of content, for students of all ages, and ruining teachers careers over the smallest things. I think stuff like Florida's Don't Say Gay law is more motivated by bigotry than simple disagreements about the boundaries of elementary school curriculum.

Generally I think a lot of people, especially the people on the left that defend these parents, underestimate how much of this is mostly just plain ole culture war bigotry.

 

[gry60]

I have a 5 year old. Since she was like two we've made it a point to let know there are no rules. If Ken wants to wear Barbie's skirt, cool. There are no freaking rules in this ****.

While I do agree, I wouldn't say there are no rules; it's more accurate to say, the rules are man-made and not tied to someone's genitals.

 

[dblplay1212]

I don't think you are getting it.
just read what I wrote. I promise you'll easily be able to predict what I think about this.

You have been defending parents that think their kids can't learn about gay/trans people so I honestly don't know what your thoughts are.

 

[mister friendly]

No, they don't. Ever. Ever. Ever. **** all of those bigots.

And who says they need to process anything? They just need to know things other than mom and dad exist. Why is that a bad thing? It's not even that serious. It's just showing things other than the traditional norms exist.

Serious question- Could we break out clean version of WAP at your daughters dance or event? Eventually they will learn about it anyways right?

 

[dblplay1212]

While I do agree, I wouldn't say there are no rules; it's more accurate to say, the rules are man-made and not tied to someone's genitals.

Na, there's no rules. There's society norms but there's no rules. I just want my kid to be happy. She can be anything she wants to be and I'll be there to support her.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

They were on the wrong side of history because the knowledge they received was pretty much outdated by the time we went to school to learn about the same topics: just look at how geography changed between the 70s (my father's time in k-12) and the 90s (my time in k-12).

The same thing is happening to our generation, and it will happen to gen-Z when they become parents.

This presumes the development or change in human knowledge is constant. (it's not.)
and that it effects all subjects equally, (it doesn't.)
and that future knowledge will always be an improvement. (certainly not)

You can look at Phonics vs whole language learning for an example.
It turns out the older method (Phonics) is superior for teaching children to read but Whole Language Learning was embraced by a younger cohort of educators.

should I have deferred to the younger generation because they are younger?
or should I go with the method that works?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Look at Virginia

Parents said they voted for Youngkin because they wanted control over their child's education and they didn't want CRT forced on them

Then Youngkin was floating the idea of cutting funding for schools. Something that has a higher possibility of downgrading the quality of a child's education.

This was something they were warned about before the election. And were mad about when Youngkin suggested it.

Like at what point I'm I allowed to side eye these parents?

Because my pupils are starting to itch

 

[dblplay1212]

People that correlate gay/trans to sex and even sexual deviants are really really uneducated on the subject.

 

[dblplay1212]

- I'm cool with my kid knowing gay and trans people exist.

- WELL HOW ABOUT WE TEACH THEM ABOUT SEX AND WET *******. HOW ABOUT THAT???

I can't with these people.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Ok fine. Fair enough

But I think that a lot of bigots are hiding behind the "concerned parents" schtick. And use non-democratic methods too, to impose the wishes on other students and parents.

If all these parents were simply concerned about the timing of subjects being introduced to kinds, we would be having very local discussions about making small tweaks to school curriculum.

But that is not what we are seeing. We are seeing state level action that bans a ton of content, for students of all ages, and ruining teachers careers over the smallest things. I think stuff like Florida's Don't Say Gay law is more motivated by bigotry and simple disagreements about the boundaries of elementary school curriculum.

Generally I think a lot of people, especially the people on the left that defend these parents, underestimate how much of this is mostly just plain ole culture war bigotry.

im sure from the right wing activists a lot of it is motivated by bigotry
but I think there are persuadable non politically involved people that you still have to convince.

like there are things that can be cherry picked that some non bigoted pursudable parents will think is problematic.

and just dismissing it as bigotry I don't think works.
and imo it gives cover to right wing extremists.

 

[cragmatic]

I come from a place of trying to understand…

So right now as a society, especially the liberal views, we are saying be accepting of people being who they are and identifying how they want to identify.

If a person who is born male with male genitalia, decides they feel like they were supposed to be a woman, and they want to transition, if we aren’t accepting of it, it’s considered hateful, or people get called a transphobe, etc.

But when a situation such as Rachel Dolezal, where someone is identifying as a race they are not, she received nothing but backlash and hate. Honestly thought season 1, episode 7 B.A.N. of Atlanta was trying to hit on this with the 16 year old black kid who identified as a 35 year old white man. I also know Dave Chappelle has hit on it in a stand up before.

Someone please educate me, what’s the difference? Obviously gender and race are two different things, but when it comes down to it, it’s still a case of someone identifying as something they weren’t born as.

 

[dblplay1212]

I come from a place of trying to understand…

So right now as a society, especially the liberal views, we are saying be accepting of people being who they are and identifying how they want to identify.

If a person who is born male with male genitalia, decides they feel like they were supposed to be a woman, and they want to transition, if we aren’t accepting of it, it’s considered hateful, or people get called a transphobe, etc.

But when a situation such as Rachel Dolezal, where someone is identifying as a race they are not, she received nothing but backlash and hate. Honestly thought season 1, episode 7 B.A.N. of Atlanta was trying to hit on this with the 16 year old black kid who identified as a 35 year old white man. I also know Dave Chappelle has hit on it in a stand up before.

Someone please educate me, what’s the difference? Obviously gender and race are two different things, but when it comes down to it, it’s still a case of someone identifying as something they weren’t born as.

You serious?