Historically underrated NBA players.

[tonyreali]

Originally Posted by Sole into it

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

This man is a BUM.

LOL anthony carter is weak. I hope you're his son or something posting this guy. But seriously...

 

[everysingletime]

Originally Posted by 10027

Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony don't do any of these things either, and I don't see anyone calling them soft. 



Amare dunks on people, in traffic, drives to the hole. 

Carmelo - same thing.  I've seen him battle people for offensive rebounds - sometimes multiple times in the same possession - to score the ball. 

 

[everysingletime]

Originally Posted by 10027

Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony don't do any of these things either, and I don't see anyone calling them soft. 



Amare dunks on people, in traffic, drives to the hole. 

Carmelo - same thing.  I've seen him battle people for offensive rebounds - sometimes multiple times in the same possession - to score the ball. 

 

[romedadude]

I know most of us are relatively young, but yall are naming a lot of recent players. Historically a lot of those guys aren't underrated.

Back to the time machine....

Jeff Malone

Another Georgia native (like Dale Ellis my last post), he played on mediocre Bullets teams of the late 80s, but he put up numbers. Averaged at least 20 ppg from 1986-90.

 

[romedadude]

I know most of us are relatively young, but yall are naming a lot of recent players. Historically a lot of those guys aren't underrated.

Back to the time machine....

Jeff Malone

Another Georgia native (like Dale Ellis my last post), he played on mediocre Bullets teams of the late 80s, but he put up numbers. Averaged at least 20 ppg from 1986-90.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by amel223

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

But I actually think race makes it much easier to hate on him and Nash. I am not understanding why you are dismissing people not liking certain players because they are white. People hated Bird because he wasn't black. ANd I do feel people hate Dirk and Nash for that very reason alone as well. And a LOT of people where I am from just hate white players just cause. It exists man. Players were hated for their skin color in 1960, what do you think the human emotion/mind has advanced that much where they don't do that anymore?

Coming from someone who asked me to provide concrete proof to back up my assertions, you are making claims about fans' feelings towards Dirk that is very hard to prove. 


But the difference between our two statements is opinion and fact. I said I FEEL that people hate on the man because he is white. There is no way for me to physically prove that because nobody would admit that.

YOU on the other hand claim Dirk didn't perform well vs. Physical Teams in the playoffs. And as I expected, you have yet to prove box scores and/or series averages against those said teams. Like I said, I will wait.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by amel223

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

But I actually think race makes it much easier to hate on him and Nash. I am not understanding why you are dismissing people not liking certain players because they are white. People hated Bird because he wasn't black. ANd I do feel people hate Dirk and Nash for that very reason alone as well. And a LOT of people where I am from just hate white players just cause. It exists man. Players were hated for their skin color in 1960, what do you think the human emotion/mind has advanced that much where they don't do that anymore?

Coming from someone who asked me to provide concrete proof to back up my assertions, you are making claims about fans' feelings towards Dirk that is very hard to prove. 


But the difference between our two statements is opinion and fact. I said I FEEL that people hate on the man because he is white. There is no way for me to physically prove that because nobody would admit that.

YOU on the other hand claim Dirk didn't perform well vs. Physical Teams in the playoffs. And as I expected, you have yet to prove box scores and/or series averages against those said teams. Like I said, I will wait.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

When I think of Kenyon Martin, I think of dunks in traffic, power dribbles to the basket, and altered shots in traffic... but the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk is mainly because he's black; you're absolutely right. Has nothing to do with the fact that Dirk literally does NONE of those things consistently, almost to the point of 'never'. Nope. Has nothing to do with that. It's just because KMart is black and Dirk is white. End of story. You nailed it.
This is what it comes down too, you are purporting that a lack of mental toughness is holding Dirk Nowitski back from dunks in traffic, power dribbles to the basket, altering shots in traffic? This is quite frankly dumb.

My point is that there are far more obvious answers to why he does not do those things, he is slow, he doesn't jump and he isn't quick off his feet, even with these physical impairments thanks to his height, and his effort he has managed to still be an above average defensive rebounder.

So again why do you immediately reach for the softness angle when there 4 other far more obvious reasons why he doesn't grab 11 rebounds a game. You tell me it's not because he is a white European, white Europeans on NT and a lot of places connote "softness" so you reach for that instead the more logical alternatives.

Birdman? I think of blocks, block attempts, altered shots, and rebounds in traffic. No, not a blocking machine like Hakeem, or a rebounding nut like Rodman, but I think of a guy in traffic fighting for boards and trying to alter shots. But the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk, again, is because he's bla... wait, no that doesn't work with this one. Hmmm... well then why the hell is it that I think of him as tougher than Dirk? It's not that he's black, it's not their actual play on the court. What the hell? I'm confused.
I chose the people I chose because they manifest the physical indicators most people view as toughness, tatoos, non-european, you have decided that rebounding makes you tought all those people rebound at the same rate or worse than Dirk despite being much more athletic than him.  When you say soft it intimates that somebody mental weakness is holding them back from achieving something that there physical gifts should allow. Other than height, there is no reason that Dirk should out rebound these guys, they are quicker, faster and they jump higher but yet he does. That means he is completely maxing out his physical gifts and thus he is not soft.

Maybe... just MAYBE... it' because when I think of 5 things Dirk brings to the table, the first three are 'Jump shots', 'Shooting', and 'Making it rain', but when I think of other guys with a reputation for being tough (or at least tougher than him), I think of some kind of combination of BLOCKED/ALTERED SHOTS, REBOUNDS ON THE DEFENSIVE & OFFENSIVE END, and going TO the basket instead of AWAY from it.
In 90% of cases players play how they play because it is what there physical gifts allow, Dirk was gifted with incredible body control and mucle memory, so he uses this to shoot jump shots, what else would you have him do? He certainly not quick enough to get by and SF/PF, and his frame isn't large enough to overpower a center, so he shoots jump shots over small SF's and drives past Large PF/C's.

And despite the fact that he apparently goes AWAY from the basket he gets to the line a TON.

And just because Dirk gets rebounds doesn't mean he's a rebounder. But even if he were known as a glass cleaner... ok... how about using that height to affect some shots under the rim? Sure, every once in a blue moon, he'll step in the paint to affect someone's attempt on a drive real quick... and I mean REAL QUICK

... then it's right back out of the paint like he's stepping on coals.
1. Huh so are there some special magical rebounds you what him to get, I don't give a %%@+ what the perception of him is, he either rebounds or he doesn't perception is reality for stupid people. He is a good defensive rebounder for a PF, period.

2. Again, he averages 1 block a game despite his non jumping, unathleticness and pretty much since Avery Johnson got there he is a solid tem defender he's smart and rotates and even though he can't jump make some crazy block and then flex like amare to convince you that he's tough, I think I'd much rather have Dirk.

He shoots jump shots and he dabbles in the paint. Period. Kidd is shorter, plays a position that doesn't typically grab rebounds, and he's like 5 years older... and Dirk barely averages a couple boards more than him? Soft.
Since when did comparing every one of the biggest stronger best rebounding point guards become a sensible standard? How does it make sense, dod we compare everyones athleticism to Bron, do we compare everyone post up game to the Dream.

He's not going to shed that. It's not a stereotype; it's his rep.
It's wrong.

I'm more than willing for him to prove me wrong tonight. Hell, Gasol is soft, too, in my opinion. Tougher than when he first joined the Lakers, but still soft, and he irritates the hell out of me sometimes with his refusal to BODY people the way Bynum does. Maybe with Dirk and Pau matched up, we'll see which one can stay out of the paint more and come out looking less... soft.

See this also really dumb, Bynum has what 30 pounds on Pau? His frame is like in the upper 10% of NBA players when it comes just width to carry muscle and you want Pau to body people like him? How? Magic? "effort" "Weaties"? 

Pau plays the way he plays because his body and natural ability is suited to play that way a super coordinated 7 footer who can block shots and rebound and you want him to gain 30 pounds loose all mobility versitility and so you can have another bynum?

Put it this way under your logic, Demarcus Ware is soft because he can't play nose tackle.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

When I think of Kenyon Martin, I think of dunks in traffic, power dribbles to the basket, and altered shots in traffic... but the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk is mainly because he's black; you're absolutely right. Has nothing to do with the fact that Dirk literally does NONE of those things consistently, almost to the point of 'never'. Nope. Has nothing to do with that. It's just because KMart is black and Dirk is white. End of story. You nailed it.
This is what it comes down too, you are purporting that a lack of mental toughness is holding Dirk Nowitski back from dunks in traffic, power dribbles to the basket, altering shots in traffic? This is quite frankly dumb.

My point is that there are far more obvious answers to why he does not do those things, he is slow, he doesn't jump and he isn't quick off his feet, even with these physical impairments thanks to his height, and his effort he has managed to still be an above average defensive rebounder.

So again why do you immediately reach for the softness angle when there 4 other far more obvious reasons why he doesn't grab 11 rebounds a game. You tell me it's not because he is a white European, white Europeans on NT and a lot of places connote "softness" so you reach for that instead the more logical alternatives.

Birdman? I think of blocks, block attempts, altered shots, and rebounds in traffic. No, not a blocking machine like Hakeem, or a rebounding nut like Rodman, but I think of a guy in traffic fighting for boards and trying to alter shots. But the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk, again, is because he's bla... wait, no that doesn't work with this one. Hmmm... well then why the hell is it that I think of him as tougher than Dirk? It's not that he's black, it's not their actual play on the court. What the hell? I'm confused.
I chose the people I chose because they manifest the physical indicators most people view as toughness, tatoos, non-european, you have decided that rebounding makes you tought all those people rebound at the same rate or worse than Dirk despite being much more athletic than him.  When you say soft it intimates that somebody mental weakness is holding them back from achieving something that there physical gifts should allow. Other than height, there is no reason that Dirk should out rebound these guys, they are quicker, faster and they jump higher but yet he does. That means he is completely maxing out his physical gifts and thus he is not soft.

Maybe... just MAYBE... it' because when I think of 5 things Dirk brings to the table, the first three are 'Jump shots', 'Shooting', and 'Making it rain', but when I think of other guys with a reputation for being tough (or at least tougher than him), I think of some kind of combination of BLOCKED/ALTERED SHOTS, REBOUNDS ON THE DEFENSIVE & OFFENSIVE END, and going TO the basket instead of AWAY from it.
In 90% of cases players play how they play because it is what there physical gifts allow, Dirk was gifted with incredible body control and mucle memory, so he uses this to shoot jump shots, what else would you have him do? He certainly not quick enough to get by and SF/PF, and his frame isn't large enough to overpower a center, so he shoots jump shots over small SF's and drives past Large PF/C's.

And despite the fact that he apparently goes AWAY from the basket he gets to the line a TON.

And just because Dirk gets rebounds doesn't mean he's a rebounder. But even if he were known as a glass cleaner... ok... how about using that height to affect some shots under the rim? Sure, every once in a blue moon, he'll step in the paint to affect someone's attempt on a drive real quick... and I mean REAL QUICK

... then it's right back out of the paint like he's stepping on coals.
1. Huh so are there some special magical rebounds you what him to get, I don't give a %%@+ what the perception of him is, he either rebounds or he doesn't perception is reality for stupid people. He is a good defensive rebounder for a PF, period.

2. Again, he averages 1 block a game despite his non jumping, unathleticness and pretty much since Avery Johnson got there he is a solid tem defender he's smart and rotates and even though he can't jump make some crazy block and then flex like amare to convince you that he's tough, I think I'd much rather have Dirk.

He shoots jump shots and he dabbles in the paint. Period. Kidd is shorter, plays a position that doesn't typically grab rebounds, and he's like 5 years older... and Dirk barely averages a couple boards more than him? Soft.
Since when did comparing every one of the biggest stronger best rebounding point guards become a sensible standard? How does it make sense, dod we compare everyones athleticism to Bron, do we compare everyone post up game to the Dream.

He's not going to shed that. It's not a stereotype; it's his rep.
It's wrong.

I'm more than willing for him to prove me wrong tonight. Hell, Gasol is soft, too, in my opinion. Tougher than when he first joined the Lakers, but still soft, and he irritates the hell out of me sometimes with his refusal to BODY people the way Bynum does. Maybe with Dirk and Pau matched up, we'll see which one can stay out of the paint more and come out looking less... soft.

See this also really dumb, Bynum has what 30 pounds on Pau? His frame is like in the upper 10% of NBA players when it comes just width to carry muscle and you want Pau to body people like him? How? Magic? "effort" "Weaties"? 

Pau plays the way he plays because his body and natural ability is suited to play that way a super coordinated 7 footer who can block shots and rebound and you want him to gain 30 pounds loose all mobility versitility and so you can have another bynum?

Put it this way under your logic, Demarcus Ware is soft because he can't play nose tackle.

 

[my toy soldier]

Never realized Fat Lever put up numbers like that

 

[my toy soldier]

Never realized Fat Lever put up numbers like that

 

[ncmalko1]

Whomever put Andrew Toney just won and ended the thread. He was a star but was behind Dr. J and Moses. But he was a flat out star. Barkleys autobiography said "I knew Jordan was the best and McKale was the best power forward but the only player I was in awe of was Andrew Toney aka "the Boston Strangler"

 

[ncmalko1]

Whomever put Andrew Toney just won and ended the thread. He was a star but was behind Dr. J and Moses. But he was a flat out star. Barkleys autobiography said "I knew Jordan was the best and McKale was the best power forward but the only player I was in awe of was Andrew Toney aka "the Boston Strangler"

 

[darthska]

I must be making some points that are too solid, 'cause you're starting to get insulting. 'When you can't attack the words, attack the author.' ;-)

And the combination of muscle memory + body control can only lead to being a jump shooter?! Really?! REALLY?!

Like, there's nothing else that can be done w/ that combo? Just... jumpshots?

 

[darthska]

I must be making some points that are too solid, 'cause you're starting to get insulting. 'When you can't attack the words, attack the author.' ;-)

And the combination of muscle memory + body control can only lead to being a jump shooter?! Really?! REALLY?!

Like, there's nothing else that can be done w/ that combo? Just... jumpshots?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

I must be making some points that are too solid, 'cause you're starting to get insulting. 'When you can't attack the words, attack the author.' ;-)

And the combination of muscle memory + body control can only lead to being a jump shooter?! Really?! REALLY?!

Like, there's nothing else that can be done w/ that combo? Just... jumpshots?

I didn't realize you were so sensitive bro, I made plenty of points.

Ill sum em up.

- players play the way they play because of their physical tools and skills. (Pau doesn't body people because he's not 285 pounds, Dirk doesn't block 3 shots a game because he's got a 20 inch vert)
- Comparing people to the best rebounding point gaurd since big O i unreasonable
- Dirk is essentially and average to above average rebounder for a slow unathletic guy that can't jump that's pretty good.

With those skills he's managed to hit  jump shots at 50% clip, and get to the basket and get fouled A LOT. 7 times a game to be exact.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

I must be making some points that are too solid, 'cause you're starting to get insulting. 'When you can't attack the words, attack the author.' ;-)

And the combination of muscle memory + body control can only lead to being a jump shooter?! Really?! REALLY?!

Like, there's nothing else that can be done w/ that combo? Just... jumpshots?

I didn't realize you were so sensitive bro, I made plenty of points.

Ill sum em up.

- players play the way they play because of their physical tools and skills. (Pau doesn't body people because he's not 285 pounds, Dirk doesn't block 3 shots a game because he's got a 20 inch vert)
- Comparing people to the best rebounding point gaurd since big O i unreasonable
- Dirk is essentially and average to above average rebounder for a slow unathletic guy that can't jump that's pretty good.

With those skills he's managed to hit  jump shots at 50% clip, and get to the basket and get fouled A LOT. 7 times a game to be exact.

 

[flyest in the hood]

 

[flyest in the hood]

 

[everysingletime]

This whole 2nd quarter, JJ freakin Barea has been in the paint more than Nowitzki. That's just sad.

 

[everysingletime]

This whole 2nd quarter, JJ freakin Barea has been in the paint more than Nowitzki. That's just sad.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Yeah man Dirk is so soft, 5 rebounds, a blocked shot 14 points.

Hopefully he will grab some of those real rebounders not just those fake rebounds that don't make you a rebounder.

Also Dirks career defensive rebounding rate is higher than Andrew Bynums.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Yeah man Dirk is so soft, 5 rebounds, a blocked shot 14 points.

Hopefully he will grab some of those real rebounders not just those fake rebounds that don't make you a rebounder.

Also Dirks career defensive rebounding rate is higher than Andrew Bynums.

 

[joegolfdad]

Originally Posted by amel223

This whole 2nd quarter, JJ freakin Barea has been in the paint more than Nowitzki. That's just sad.

You must have missed when he bodied artest, not sure if you are watching the game

 

[joegolfdad]

Originally Posted by amel223

This whole 2nd quarter, JJ freakin Barea has been in the paint more than Nowitzki. That's just sad.

You must have missed when he bodied artest, not sure if you are watching the game