Historically underrated NBA players.

[darthska]

Osh Kosh Bosh:

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23ska909red02:

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I must be making some points that are too solid, 'cause you're starting to get insulting. 'When you can't attack the words, attack the author.' ;-)

And the combination of muscle memory + body control can only lead to being a jump shooter?! Really?! REALLY?!

Like, there's nothing else that can be done w/ that combo? Just... jumpshots?
I didn't realize you were so sensitive bro
No, no, no... you're confusing 'offended' with 'making insults.' Rather elementary of you, but I'll break it down.

See, if I insult you, whether or not you're offended by the insult doesn't change the fact that I just insulted you. Your sensitivity doesn't determine whether or not I threw an insult at you; your sensitivity only determines whether or not you were actually offended by said insult.

Moving on... the reason Dirk doesn't block 3 shots a game isn't because he has no vert; he's effing 13 feet tall. If he WANTED to block more shots, with his length, he would succeed at it, but that would require somme dedication to that goal, and some learned behaviors conducive to blocking shots (stop me if that sounded anything like 'muscle memory').

Dirk is an average to above average rebounder for a slow, unathletic guy that can't shoot... but he is NOT an average to above average rebounder for a 7-footer.

You have yet to address hustle, defense, or competitiveness towards the end of the game. I don't blame you, as I'd stick away from those areas too if I were trying to sing Dirk's praises.

 

[darthska]

Osh Kosh Bosh:

---

23ska909red02:

---

I must be making some points that are too solid, 'cause you're starting to get insulting. 'When you can't attack the words, attack the author.' ;-)

And the combination of muscle memory + body control can only lead to being a jump shooter?! Really?! REALLY?!

Like, there's nothing else that can be done w/ that combo? Just... jumpshots?
I didn't realize you were so sensitive bro
No, no, no... you're confusing 'offended' with 'making insults.' Rather elementary of you, but I'll break it down.

See, if I insult you, whether or not you're offended by the insult doesn't change the fact that I just insulted you. Your sensitivity doesn't determine whether or not I threw an insult at you; your sensitivity only determines whether or not you were actually offended by said insult.

Moving on... the reason Dirk doesn't block 3 shots a game isn't because he has no vert; he's effing 13 feet tall. If he WANTED to block more shots, with his length, he would succeed at it, but that would require somme dedication to that goal, and some learned behaviors conducive to blocking shots (stop me if that sounded anything like 'muscle memory').

Dirk is an average to above average rebounder for a slow, unathletic guy that can't shoot... but he is NOT an average to above average rebounder for a 7-footer.

You have yet to address hustle, defense, or competitiveness towards the end of the game. I don't blame you, as I'd stick away from those areas too if I were trying to sing Dirk's praises.

 

[joegolfdad]

Originally Posted by amel223

This whole 2nd quarter, JJ freakin Barea has been in the paint more than Nowitzki. That's just sad.

no it isn't

 

[joegolfdad]

Originally Posted by amel223

This whole 2nd quarter, JJ freakin Barea has been in the paint more than Nowitzki. That's just sad.

no it isn't

 

[joegolfdad]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Osh Kosh Bosh:

---

23ska909red02:

---

I must be making some points that are too solid, 'cause you're starting to get insulting. 'When you can't attack the words, attack the author.' ;-)

And the combination of muscle memory + body control can only lead to being a jump shooter?! Really?! REALLY?!

Like, there's nothing else that can be done w/ that combo? Just... jumpshots?

I didn't realize you were so sensitive bro
No, no, no... you're confusing 'offended' with 'making insults.' Rather elementary of you, but I'll break it down.

See, if I insult you, whether or not you're offended by the insult doesn't change the fact that I just insulted you. Your sensitivity doesn't determine whether or not I threw an insult at you; your sensitivity only determines whether or not you were actually offended by said insult.

Moving on... the reason Dirk doesn't block 3 shots a game isn't because he has no vert; he's effing 13 feet tall. If he WANTED to block more shots, with his length, he would succeed at it, but that would require somme dedication to that goal, and some learned behaviors conducive to blocking shots (stop me if that sounded anything like 'muscle memory').

Dirk is an average to above average rebounder for a slow, unathletic guy that can't shoot... but he is NOT an average to above average rebounder for a 7-footer.

You have yet to address hustle, defense, or competitiveness towards the end of the game. I don't blame you, as I'd stick away from those areas too if I were trying to sing Dirk's praises.

Just curious, how do you measure his competitiveness towards the end of games?

 

[joegolfdad]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Osh Kosh Bosh:

---

23ska909red02:

---

I must be making some points that are too solid, 'cause you're starting to get insulting. 'When you can't attack the words, attack the author.' ;-)

And the combination of muscle memory + body control can only lead to being a jump shooter?! Really?! REALLY?!

Like, there's nothing else that can be done w/ that combo? Just... jumpshots?

I didn't realize you were so sensitive bro
No, no, no... you're confusing 'offended' with 'making insults.' Rather elementary of you, but I'll break it down.

See, if I insult you, whether or not you're offended by the insult doesn't change the fact that I just insulted you. Your sensitivity doesn't determine whether or not I threw an insult at you; your sensitivity only determines whether or not you were actually offended by said insult.

Moving on... the reason Dirk doesn't block 3 shots a game isn't because he has no vert; he's effing 13 feet tall. If he WANTED to block more shots, with his length, he would succeed at it, but that would require somme dedication to that goal, and some learned behaviors conducive to blocking shots (stop me if that sounded anything like 'muscle memory').

Dirk is an average to above average rebounder for a slow, unathletic guy that can't shoot... but he is NOT an average to above average rebounder for a 7-footer.

You have yet to address hustle, defense, or competitiveness towards the end of the game. I don't blame you, as I'd stick away from those areas too if I were trying to sing Dirk's praises.

Just curious, how do you measure his competitiveness towards the end of games?

 

[Coupé It]

Originally Posted by Sole into it

The Franchise is definitely undderrated. 

As well as Junk Yard Dog, Antoine Walker and others that I can't remember right now.

WHAT!!! This dude was highly overrated 

 

[Coupé It]

Originally Posted by Sole into it

The Franchise is definitely undderrated. 

As well as Junk Yard Dog, Antoine Walker and others that I can't remember right now.

WHAT!!! This dude was highly overrated 

 

[still1rise]

Originally Posted by Futuristic

Mitch Richmond was the first name that came to mind

 

[still1rise]

Originally Posted by Futuristic

Mitch Richmond was the first name that came to mind

 

[darthska]

joegolfdad:

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Just curious, how do you measure his competitiveness towards the end of games?
Same way you measure competitiveness during the entire game; you watch, observe, and make a judgement.

Just because something can't be quantifiably measured doesn't mean it can't be detected or observed more in one individual than the other.

 

[darthska]

joegolfdad:

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Just curious, how do you measure his competitiveness towards the end of games?
Same way you measure competitiveness during the entire game; you watch, observe, and make a judgement.

Just because something can't be quantifiably measured doesn't mean it can't be detected or observed more in one individual than the other.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Osh Kosh Bosh:

---

23ska909red02:

---

I must be making some points that are too solid, 'cause you're starting to get insulting. 'When you can't attack the words, attack the author.' ;-)

And the combination of muscle memory + body control can only lead to being a jump shooter?! Really?! REALLY?!

Like, there's nothing else that can be done w/ that combo? Just... jumpshots?

I didn't realize you were so sensitive bro
No, no, no... you're confusing 'offended' with 'making insults.' Rather elementary of you, but I'll break it down.

See, if I insult you, whether or not you're offended by the insult doesn't change the fact that I just insulted you. Your sensitivity doesn't determine whether or not I threw an insult at you; your sensitivity only determines whether or not you were actually offended by said insult.

The reason Dirk doesn't block 3 shots a game isn't because he has no vert; he's effing 13 feet tall. If he WANTED to block more shots, with his length, he would succeed at it, but that would require somme dedication to that goal, and some learned behaviors conducive to blocking shots (stop me if that sounded anything like 'muscle memory').

I'm not really getting the relationship to muscle memory, blocking a shot is not a fine motor skill that's needs to be repeated in such a manner, it has more to dow ith jumping ability and wingspan than height, obviously height helps but it is not the be all an end all to shot blocking. Unless you are Manute Bol or Shawn Bradley being 7 feet doesn't guarantee you are going to be some great shot blocker. Noted tough guy and physical player Jason Collins and Jarron Collins both have lower block rates than Dirk despite there status as 7 footers becuas ethey are similarly terrible athletes.

There is a reason all time block rate lists are littered with guys like Wallace, Kerilinko, Mourning,.

Dirks wingspan is average for a 7 footer, (The average 7 footer has a 7-4.6 wingspan, Dirks is 7-4) combine that with  below average athleticism you get a below average shot blocker and also FYI, Dirk is 31st best defensive rebounding 7 footer in the history of the game according to basketball reference. So can we put to rest who whole Dirk doesn't rebound thing. 

Why is atheletic + average wingspan a less likely answer than some weird mental softness that only shows it's self in shot blocking but not rebounding.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Osh Kosh Bosh:

---

23ska909red02:

---

I must be making some points that are too solid, 'cause you're starting to get insulting. 'When you can't attack the words, attack the author.' ;-)

And the combination of muscle memory + body control can only lead to being a jump shooter?! Really?! REALLY?!

Like, there's nothing else that can be done w/ that combo? Just... jumpshots?

I didn't realize you were so sensitive bro
No, no, no... you're confusing 'offended' with 'making insults.' Rather elementary of you, but I'll break it down.

See, if I insult you, whether or not you're offended by the insult doesn't change the fact that I just insulted you. Your sensitivity doesn't determine whether or not I threw an insult at you; your sensitivity only determines whether or not you were actually offended by said insult.

The reason Dirk doesn't block 3 shots a game isn't because he has no vert; he's effing 13 feet tall. If he WANTED to block more shots, with his length, he would succeed at it, but that would require somme dedication to that goal, and some learned behaviors conducive to blocking shots (stop me if that sounded anything like 'muscle memory').

I'm not really getting the relationship to muscle memory, blocking a shot is not a fine motor skill that's needs to be repeated in such a manner, it has more to dow ith jumping ability and wingspan than height, obviously height helps but it is not the be all an end all to shot blocking. Unless you are Manute Bol or Shawn Bradley being 7 feet doesn't guarantee you are going to be some great shot blocker. Noted tough guy and physical player Jason Collins and Jarron Collins both have lower block rates than Dirk despite there status as 7 footers becuas ethey are similarly terrible athletes.

There is a reason all time block rate lists are littered with guys like Wallace, Kerilinko, Mourning,.

Dirks wingspan is average for a 7 footer, (The average 7 footer has a 7-4.6 wingspan, Dirks is 7-4) combine that with  below average athleticism you get a below average shot blocker and also FYI, Dirk is 31st best defensive rebounding 7 footer in the history of the game according to basketball reference. So can we put to rest who whole Dirk doesn't rebound thing. 

Why is atheletic + average wingspan a less likely answer than some weird mental softness that only shows it's self in shot blocking but not rebounding.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Also the last part I missed and Ska's weakest argument , currently Dirk is probably the most effective late game scorer in the NBA, and it's not particularly close, this year he is currently shooting 50% in crutch time situations and PER 48 Minutes he averages 40 points good for top 10 in the league. Dirk Nowitski is +41 late game situations, and the Mavericks over the past 2 years have the best record in one possession games.

At this point given how good his jump shot is he has been proven to be nigh ungardable in the clutch despite the lack of reliable secondary scorers.

Dirks career playoff PER is higher than his regular season, including his rebound rate which translates to about 11 boards a game in the playoffs, his game without question goes to another level in the playoffs.

If that doesn't show late game competitiveness (+41 AND +29 last two years in the clutch), Hustle, (Increase in rebound rate), and his defense I think is solid, and I think most Dallas fans would tell you the same thing, he has improved it greatly, he is not a liability at all.

You either have not been watching him for the past 6 years or you simply do not like him to question his clutchness at this point. One GSW series doesn't change reality.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Also the last part I missed and Ska's weakest argument , currently Dirk is probably the most effective late game scorer in the NBA, and it's not particularly close, this year he is currently shooting 50% in crutch time situations and PER 48 Minutes he averages 40 points good for top 10 in the league. Dirk Nowitski is +41 late game situations, and the Mavericks over the past 2 years have the best record in one possession games.

At this point given how good his jump shot is he has been proven to be nigh ungardable in the clutch despite the lack of reliable secondary scorers.

Dirks career playoff PER is higher than his regular season, including his rebound rate which translates to about 11 boards a game in the playoffs, his game without question goes to another level in the playoffs.

If that doesn't show late game competitiveness (+41 AND +29 last two years in the clutch), Hustle, (Increase in rebound rate), and his defense I think is solid, and I think most Dallas fans would tell you the same thing, he has improved it greatly, he is not a liability at all.

You either have not been watching him for the past 6 years or you simply do not like him to question his clutchness at this point. One GSW series doesn't change reality.

 

[joegolfdad]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

joegolfdad:

---

Just curious, how do you measure his competitiveness towards the end of games?

Same way you measure competitiveness during the entire game; you watch, observe, and make a judgement.

Just because something can't be quantifiably measured doesn't mean it can't be detected or observed more in one individual than the other.

Okay so you're saying by the 10 mavs games you watch a season you have determined Dirk to be "uncompetitive" during the end of the game? I'm just curious where you are getting this uncompetitive feel. Is it because he doesn't put on a show after he hits a big shot? (Because he certainly hits big shots) Is it because he's not ranting post game to reporters in the locker room? I'm sure Dirk has become one of the greatest pfs of all time by just being an average competitor. Just curious, who are your most "competitive" players in the NBA?

 

[joegolfdad]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

joegolfdad:

---

Just curious, how do you measure his competitiveness towards the end of games?

Same way you measure competitiveness during the entire game; you watch, observe, and make a judgement.

Just because something can't be quantifiably measured doesn't mean it can't be detected or observed more in one individual than the other.

Okay so you're saying by the 10 mavs games you watch a season you have determined Dirk to be "uncompetitive" during the end of the game? I'm just curious where you are getting this uncompetitive feel. Is it because he doesn't put on a show after he hits a big shot? (Because he certainly hits big shots) Is it because he's not ranting post game to reporters in the locker room? I'm sure Dirk has become one of the greatest pfs of all time by just being an average competitor. Just curious, who are your most "competitive" players in the NBA?

 

[joegolfdad]

Also, I guess tyson chandler is soft because he is 7ft and averaging only 1 bpg this year.

 

[jmb1523]

What about Nique? People remember the dunks and thats it.

I think he said it himself that he was underrated, and their was alot more to his game than dunks.

 

[joegolfdad]

Also, I guess tyson chandler is soft because he is 7ft and averaging only 1 bpg this year.

 

[jmb1523]

What about Nique? People remember the dunks and thats it.

I think he said it himself that he was underrated, and their was alot more to his game than dunks.

 

[proshares]

I feel Glenn Robinson is very underrated. A great 10 year stretch in his career. One knock was the rebounding but he had Vin Baker for that

Sam Cassel as well. What he did in Milwaukee, helping carry KG to the WCF and then a couple years later the Clippers to actually make the playoffs gets really overlooked.

 

[proshares]

I feel Glenn Robinson is very underrated. A great 10 year stretch in his career. One knock was the rebounding but he had Vin Baker for that

Sam Cassel as well. What he did in Milwaukee, helping carry KG to the WCF and then a couple years later the Clippers to actually make the playoffs gets really overlooked.

 

[proshares]

Oh and Jason Kidd to a small extent. You go back and look at those Nets rosters that went to the Finals. !$@++%% ABYSMAL