Historically underrated NBA players.

[darthska]

Osh Kosh Bosh:

---

How about Kenyon Martin, another dude with a career rebounding rate lower than Dirk, never here whispers about his toughness, or Rasheed Wallace and on Jason Kidd, I totally disagree, is he John Wall? No. But he def at least an above average athlete and is bigger and stronger than 90% of point guards. It's insulting to my intelligence and Jason Kidds talent to suggest that the only reason he gets board is because he is the only one trying. smiley: laugh

"Soft" is almost always just a intellectually lazy copout argument.

Plus if you just look at defensive rebounding and ignore offensive (Dirk shoots 3's so he has a harder time grabbing offensive rebounds.) Dirk has a higher rate than Luis Scola, Serge Ibaka, Anderson Varejoa, Mcdysse, Nazr Mohammed, and equal too Birdman, Drew Gooden, Kendrik Perkins.

Soooo...again I think there are for more logical explanations for Dirks lack of rebounds than "softness"
When I think of Kenyon Martin, I think of dunks in traffic, power dribbles to the basket, and altered shots in traffic... but the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk is mainly because he's black; you're absolutely right. Has nothing to do with the fact that Dirk literally does NONE of those things consistently, almost to the point of 'never'. Nope. Has nothing to do with that. It's just because KMart is black and Dirk is white. End of story. You nailed it.

Birdman? I think of blocks, block attempts, altered shots, and rebounds in traffic. No, not a blocking machine like Hakeem, or a rebounding nut like Rodman, but I think of a guy in traffic fighting for boards and trying to alter shots. But the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk, again, is because he's bla... wait, no that doesn't work with this one. Hmmm... well then why the hell is it that I think of him as tougher than Dirk? It's not that he's black, it's not their actual play on the court. What the hell? I'm confused.

Maybe... just MAYBE... it' because when I think of 5 things Dirk brings to the table, the first three are 'Jump shots', 'Shooting', and 'Making it rain', but when I think of other guys with a reputation for being tough (or at least tougher than him), I think of some kind of combination of BLOCKED/ALTERED SHOTS, REBOUNDS ON THE DEFENSIVE & OFFENSIVE END, and going TO the basket instead of AWAY from it.

And just because Dirk gets rebounds doesn't mean he's a rebounder. But even if he were known as a glass cleaner... ok... how about using that height to affect some shots under the rim? Sure, every once in a blue moon, he'll step in the paint to affect someone's attempt on a drive real quick... and I mean REAL QUICK

... then it's right back out of the paint like he's stepping on coals.

He shoots jump shots and he dabbles in the paint. Period. Kidd is shorter, plays a position that doesn't typically grab rebounds, and he's like 5 years older... and Dirk barely averages a couple boards more than him? Soft.

He's not going to shed that. It's not a stereotype; it's his rep.

I'm more than willing for him to prove me wrong tonight. Hell, Gasol is soft, too, in my opinion. Tougher than when he first joined the Lakers, but still soft, and he irritates the hell out of me sometimes with his refusal to BODY people the way Bynum does. Maybe with Dirk and Pau matched up, we'll see which one can stay out of the paint more and come out looking less... soft.

 

[darthska]

Osh Kosh Bosh:

---

How about Kenyon Martin, another dude with a career rebounding rate lower than Dirk, never here whispers about his toughness, or Rasheed Wallace and on Jason Kidd, I totally disagree, is he John Wall? No. But he def at least an above average athlete and is bigger and stronger than 90% of point guards. It's insulting to my intelligence and Jason Kidds talent to suggest that the only reason he gets board is because he is the only one trying. smiley: laugh

"Soft" is almost always just a intellectually lazy copout argument.

Plus if you just look at defensive rebounding and ignore offensive (Dirk shoots 3's so he has a harder time grabbing offensive rebounds.) Dirk has a higher rate than Luis Scola, Serge Ibaka, Anderson Varejoa, Mcdysse, Nazr Mohammed, and equal too Birdman, Drew Gooden, Kendrik Perkins.

Soooo...again I think there are for more logical explanations for Dirks lack of rebounds than "softness"
When I think of Kenyon Martin, I think of dunks in traffic, power dribbles to the basket, and altered shots in traffic... but the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk is mainly because he's black; you're absolutely right. Has nothing to do with the fact that Dirk literally does NONE of those things consistently, almost to the point of 'never'. Nope. Has nothing to do with that. It's just because KMart is black and Dirk is white. End of story. You nailed it.

Birdman? I think of blocks, block attempts, altered shots, and rebounds in traffic. No, not a blocking machine like Hakeem, or a rebounding nut like Rodman, but I think of a guy in traffic fighting for boards and trying to alter shots. But the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk, again, is because he's bla... wait, no that doesn't work with this one. Hmmm... well then why the hell is it that I think of him as tougher than Dirk? It's not that he's black, it's not their actual play on the court. What the hell? I'm confused.

Maybe... just MAYBE... it' because when I think of 5 things Dirk brings to the table, the first three are 'Jump shots', 'Shooting', and 'Making it rain', but when I think of other guys with a reputation for being tough (or at least tougher than him), I think of some kind of combination of BLOCKED/ALTERED SHOTS, REBOUNDS ON THE DEFENSIVE & OFFENSIVE END, and going TO the basket instead of AWAY from it.

And just because Dirk gets rebounds doesn't mean he's a rebounder. But even if he were known as a glass cleaner... ok... how about using that height to affect some shots under the rim? Sure, every once in a blue moon, he'll step in the paint to affect someone's attempt on a drive real quick... and I mean REAL QUICK

... then it's right back out of the paint like he's stepping on coals.

He shoots jump shots and he dabbles in the paint. Period. Kidd is shorter, plays a position that doesn't typically grab rebounds, and he's like 5 years older... and Dirk barely averages a couple boards more than him? Soft.

He's not going to shed that. It's not a stereotype; it's his rep.

I'm more than willing for him to prove me wrong tonight. Hell, Gasol is soft, too, in my opinion. Tougher than when he first joined the Lakers, but still soft, and he irritates the hell out of me sometimes with his refusal to BODY people the way Bynum does. Maybe with Dirk and Pau matched up, we'll see which one can stay out of the paint more and come out looking less... soft.

 

[sole into it]

The Franchise is definitely undderrated. 

As well as Junk Yard Dog, Antoine Walker and others that I can't remember right now.

 

[sole into it]

The Franchise is definitely undderrated. 

As well as Junk Yard Dog, Antoine Walker and others that I can't remember right now.

 

[1stand15th]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Check out this stretch he had:

1986-87 26 DEN NBA 82 82 37.2 7.8 16.7 .469 0.3 1.1 .239 3.0 3.8 .782 2.6 6.3 8.9 8.0 2.5 0.4 2.0 2.7 18.9
1987-88 27 DEN NBA 82 82 37.3 7.8 16.6 .473 0.1 0.7 .211 3.0 3.9 .785 2.5 5.6 8.1 7.8 2.7 0.3 2.2 2.6 18.9
1988-89 28 DEN NBA 71 71 38.7 7.9 17.2 .457 0.3 0.9 .348 3.8 4.8 .785 2.6 6.7 9.3 7.9 2.7 0.3 2.2 2.5 19.8
1989-90 29 DEN NBA 79 79 35.8 7.2 16.2 .443 0.5 1.1 .414 3.4 4.3 .804 2.9 6.4 9.3 6.5 2.1 0.2 2.0 2.2 18.3

Dude was only 6'3 and 170 lbs. How he grabbed all those rebounds I'll never know. The closest to average a triple double after Oscar and Magic.

 Wow

  

 

[1stand15th]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Check out this stretch he had:

1986-87 26 DEN NBA 82 82 37.2 7.8 16.7 .469 0.3 1.1 .239 3.0 3.8 .782 2.6 6.3 8.9 8.0 2.5 0.4 2.0 2.7 18.9
1987-88 27 DEN NBA 82 82 37.3 7.8 16.6 .473 0.1 0.7 .211 3.0 3.9 .785 2.5 5.6 8.1 7.8 2.7 0.3 2.2 2.6 18.9
1988-89 28 DEN NBA 71 71 38.7 7.9 17.2 .457 0.3 0.9 .348 3.8 4.8 .785 2.6 6.7 9.3 7.9 2.7 0.3 2.2 2.5 19.8
1989-90 29 DEN NBA 79 79 35.8 7.2 16.2 .443 0.5 1.1 .414 3.4 4.3 .804 2.9 6.4 9.3 6.5 2.1 0.2 2.0 2.2 18.3

Dude was only 6'3 and 170 lbs. How he grabbed all those rebounds I'll never know. The closest to average a triple double after Oscar and Magic.

 Wow

  

 

[everysingletime]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

But I actually think race makes it much easier to hate on him and Nash. I am not understanding why you are dismissing people not liking certain players because they are white. People hated Bird because he wasn't black. ANd I do feel people hate Dirk and Nash for that very reason alone as well. And a LOT of people where I am from just hate white players just cause. It exists man. Players were hated for their skin color in 1960, what do you think the human emotion/mind has advanced that much where they don't do that anymore?





Coming from someone who asked me to provide concrete proof to back up my assertions, you are making claims about fans' feelings towards Dirk that is very hard to prove. 

 

[everysingletime]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

But I actually think race makes it much easier to hate on him and Nash. I am not understanding why you are dismissing people not liking certain players because they are white. People hated Bird because he wasn't black. ANd I do feel people hate Dirk and Nash for that very reason alone as well. And a LOT of people where I am from just hate white players just cause. It exists man. Players were hated for their skin color in 1960, what do you think the human emotion/mind has advanced that much where they don't do that anymore?





Coming from someone who asked me to provide concrete proof to back up my assertions, you are making claims about fans' feelings towards Dirk that is very hard to prove. 

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Osh Kosh Bosh:

---

How about Kenyon Martin, another dude with a career rebounding rate lower than Dirk, never here whispers about his toughness, or Rasheed Wallace and on Jason Kidd, I totally disagree, is he John Wall? No. But he def at least an above average athlete and is bigger and stronger than 90% of point guards. It's insulting to my intelligence and Jason Kidds talent to suggest that the only reason he gets board is because he is the only one trying. smiley: laugh

"Soft" is almost always just a intellectually lazy copout argument.

Plus if you just look at defensive rebounding and ignore offensive (Dirk shoots 3's so he has a harder time grabbing offensive rebounds.) Dirk has a higher rate than Luis Scola, Serge Ibaka, Anderson Varejoa, Mcdysse, Nazr Mohammed, and equal too Birdman, Drew Gooden, Kendrik Perkins.

Soooo...again I think there are for more logical explanations for Dirks lack of rebounds than "softness"

When I think of Kenyon Martin, I think of dunks in traffic, power dribbles to the basket, and altered shots in traffic... but the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk is mainly because he's black; you're absolutely right. Has nothing to do with the fact that Dirk literally does NONE of those things consistently, almost to the point of 'never'. Nope. Has nothing to do with that. It's just because KMart is black and Dirk is white. End of story. You nailed it.

Birdman? I think of blocks, block attempts, altered shots, and rebounds in traffic. No, not a blocking machine like Hakeem, or a rebounding nut like Rodman, but I think of a guy in traffic fighting for boards and trying to alter shots. But the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk, again, is because he's bla... wait, no that doesn't work with this one. Hmmm... well then why the hell is it that I think of him as tougher than Dirk? It's not that he's black, it's not their actual play on the court. What the hell? I'm confused.

Maybe... just MAYBE... it' because when I think of 5 things Dirk brings to the table, the first three are 'Jump shots', 'Shooting', and 'Making it rain', but when I think of other guys with a reputation for being tough (or at least tougher than him), I think of some kind of combination of BLOCKED/ALTERED SHOTS, REBOUNDS ON THE DEFENSIVE & OFFENSIVE END, and going TO the basket instead of AWAY from it.

And just because Dirk gets rebounds doesn't mean he's a rebounder. But even if he were known as a glass cleaner... ok... how about using that height to affect some shots under the rim? Sure, every once in a blue moon, he'll step in the paint to affect someone's attempt on a drive real quick... and I mean REAL QUICK

... then it's right back out of the paint like he's stepping on coals.

He shoots jump shots and he dabbles in the paint. Period. Kidd is shorter, plays a position that doesn't typically grab rebounds, and he's like 5 years older... and Dirk barely averages a couple boards more than him? Soft.

He's not going to shed that. It's not a stereotype; it's his rep.

I'm more than willing for him to prove me wrong tonight. Hell, Gasol is soft, too, in my opinion. Tougher than when he first joined the Lakers, but still soft, and he irritates the hell out of me sometimes with his refusal to BODY people the way Bynum does.Gsa Maybe with Dirk and Pau matched up, we'll see which one can stay out of the paint more and come out looking less... soft.

Gasol is the reason why your Lakers are champions again. Its amazing to me you want to knock him. I'm sure Denver will trade Kenyon Marton for him and I'll definitely give you Jason Kidd for him.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Osh Kosh Bosh:

---

How about Kenyon Martin, another dude with a career rebounding rate lower than Dirk, never here whispers about his toughness, or Rasheed Wallace and on Jason Kidd, I totally disagree, is he John Wall? No. But he def at least an above average athlete and is bigger and stronger than 90% of point guards. It's insulting to my intelligence and Jason Kidds talent to suggest that the only reason he gets board is because he is the only one trying. smiley: laugh

"Soft" is almost always just a intellectually lazy copout argument.

Plus if you just look at defensive rebounding and ignore offensive (Dirk shoots 3's so he has a harder time grabbing offensive rebounds.) Dirk has a higher rate than Luis Scola, Serge Ibaka, Anderson Varejoa, Mcdysse, Nazr Mohammed, and equal too Birdman, Drew Gooden, Kendrik Perkins.

Soooo...again I think there are for more logical explanations for Dirks lack of rebounds than "softness"

When I think of Kenyon Martin, I think of dunks in traffic, power dribbles to the basket, and altered shots in traffic... but the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk is mainly because he's black; you're absolutely right. Has nothing to do with the fact that Dirk literally does NONE of those things consistently, almost to the point of 'never'. Nope. Has nothing to do with that. It's just because KMart is black and Dirk is white. End of story. You nailed it.

Birdman? I think of blocks, block attempts, altered shots, and rebounds in traffic. No, not a blocking machine like Hakeem, or a rebounding nut like Rodman, but I think of a guy in traffic fighting for boards and trying to alter shots. But the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk, again, is because he's bla... wait, no that doesn't work with this one. Hmmm... well then why the hell is it that I think of him as tougher than Dirk? It's not that he's black, it's not their actual play on the court. What the hell? I'm confused.

Maybe... just MAYBE... it' because when I think of 5 things Dirk brings to the table, the first three are 'Jump shots', 'Shooting', and 'Making it rain', but when I think of other guys with a reputation for being tough (or at least tougher than him), I think of some kind of combination of BLOCKED/ALTERED SHOTS, REBOUNDS ON THE DEFENSIVE & OFFENSIVE END, and going TO the basket instead of AWAY from it.

And just because Dirk gets rebounds doesn't mean he's a rebounder. But even if he were known as a glass cleaner... ok... how about using that height to affect some shots under the rim? Sure, every once in a blue moon, he'll step in the paint to affect someone's attempt on a drive real quick... and I mean REAL QUICK

... then it's right back out of the paint like he's stepping on coals.

He shoots jump shots and he dabbles in the paint. Period. Kidd is shorter, plays a position that doesn't typically grab rebounds, and he's like 5 years older... and Dirk barely averages a couple boards more than him? Soft.

He's not going to shed that. It's not a stereotype; it's his rep.

I'm more than willing for him to prove me wrong tonight. Hell, Gasol is soft, too, in my opinion. Tougher than when he first joined the Lakers, but still soft, and he irritates the hell out of me sometimes with his refusal to BODY people the way Bynum does.Gsa Maybe with Dirk and Pau matched up, we'll see which one can stay out of the paint more and come out looking less... soft.

Gasol is the reason why your Lakers are champions again. Its amazing to me you want to knock him. I'm sure Denver will trade Kenyon Marton for him and I'll definitely give you Jason Kidd for him.

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by MR J 858

He's not appreciated because a lot people just remember him for being a flopper.

One of the best passing big men I ever saw.

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by MR J 858

He's not appreciated because a lot people just remember him for being a flopper.

One of the best passing big men I ever saw.

 

[Clyde Frog]

K-Mart on the Nets before the injuries was an absolute monster. Im talking about gettin boards, swattin peoples @*+@, an throwin a few bows if he had too. His toughness shouldnt be questioned. He just doesnt have the athleticism anymore.

 

[Clyde Frog]

K-Mart on the Nets before the injuries was an absolute monster. Im talking about gettin boards, swattin peoples @*+@, an throwin a few bows if he had too. His toughness shouldnt be questioned. He just doesnt have the athleticism anymore.

 

[darthska]

^ Oh he's ABSOLUTELY the reason we're champs again. In fact, I was lobbying on here last June that HE was our Finals MVP, and I still stand by that.

But he's soft. What he contributes doesn't make him flawless, or exempt from criticism, in my opinion.

 

[darthska]

^ Oh he's ABSOLUTELY the reason we're champs again. In fact, I was lobbying on here last June that HE was our Finals MVP, and I still stand by that.

But he's soft. What he contributes doesn't make him flawless, or exempt from criticism, in my opinion.

 

[westcoastsfinest]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

When I think of Kenyon Martin, I think of dunks in traffic, power dribbles to the basket, and altered shots in traffic...   

when i think of kenyon martin, i think of useless before kidd and useless after kidd.


andrew toney.

 

[westcoastsfinest]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

When I think of Kenyon Martin, I think of dunks in traffic, power dribbles to the basket, and altered shots in traffic...   

when i think of kenyon martin, i think of useless before kidd and useless after kidd.


andrew toney.

 

[|A-Man|]

I don't understand this underlying race debate in regard to tough players. There are plenty soft black players in this league and there are tough white players yall just bringing up dudes like Dirk. I mean Nash is tough from a standpoint that he can take a beating but the other stuff in regards to an all around tough player not so much.

Also I read something like ppl hated Bird cuz he wasn't black. I don't know who these ppl are but highly doubt that. If it's for ignorant reasons it's more like they hated him cuz he was white. Which isn't the same thing as not being black. If he was any other ethnicity/shade of skin color ppl would not care about him or hate him at a moderate degree in accordance to his game. For instance, if he was Luis Bird.

 

[|A-Man|]

I don't understand this underlying race debate in regard to tough players. There are plenty soft black players in this league and there are tough white players yall just bringing up dudes like Dirk. I mean Nash is tough from a standpoint that he can take a beating but the other stuff in regards to an all around tough player not so much.

Also I read something like ppl hated Bird cuz he wasn't black. I don't know who these ppl are but highly doubt that. If it's for ignorant reasons it's more like they hated him cuz he was white. Which isn't the same thing as not being black. If he was any other ethnicity/shade of skin color ppl would not care about him or hate him at a moderate degree in accordance to his game. For instance, if he was Luis Bird.

 

[10027]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Osh Kosh Bosh:

---

How about Kenyon Martin, another dude with a career rebounding rate lower than Dirk, never here whispers about his toughness, or Rasheed Wallace and on Jason Kidd, I totally disagree, is he John Wall? No. But he def at least an above average athlete and is bigger and stronger than 90% of point guards. It's insulting to my intelligence and Jason Kidds talent to suggest that the only reason he gets board is because he is the only one trying. smiley: laugh

"Soft" is almost always just a intellectually lazy copout argument.

Plus if you just look at defensive rebounding and ignore offensive (Dirk shoots 3's so he has a harder time grabbing offensive rebounds.) Dirk has a higher rate than Luis Scola, Serge Ibaka, Anderson Varejoa, Mcdysse, Nazr Mohammed, and equal too Birdman, Drew Gooden, Kendrik Perkins.

Soooo...again I think there are for more logical explanations for Dirks lack of rebounds than "softness"

When I think of Kenyon Martin, I think of dunks in traffic, power dribbles to the basket, and altered shots in traffic... but the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk is mainly because he's black; you're absolutely right. Has nothing to do with the fact that Dirk literally does NONE of those things consistently, almost to the point of 'never'. Nope. Has nothing to do with that. It's just because KMart is black and Dirk is white. End of story. You nailed it.

Birdman? I think of blocks, block attempts, altered shots, and rebounds in traffic. No, not a blocking machine like Hakeem, or a rebounding nut like Rodman, but I think of a guy in traffic fighting for boards and trying to alter shots. But the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk, again, is because he's bla... wait, no that doesn't work with this one. Hmmm... well then why the hell is it that I think of him as tougher than Dirk? It's not that he's black, it's not their actual play on the court. What the hell? I'm confused.

Maybe... just MAYBE... it' because when I think of 5 things Dirk brings to the table, the first three are 'Jump shots', 'Shooting', and 'Making it rain', but when I think of other guys with a reputation for being tough (or at least tougher than him), I think of some kind of combination of BLOCKED/ALTERED SHOTS, REBOUNDS ON THE DEFENSIVE & OFFENSIVE END, and going TO the basket instead of AWAY from it.



Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony don't do any of these things either, and I don't see anyone calling them soft.  Dirk is a star player who scores and you are comparing him to defensive specialists like Kenyon Martin and Birdman (who literally doesn't do anything else)?  The guy is one of the most efficient scorers in the game, I don't know how you have a basis for complaining about how he gets his points.  He doesn't drive all the time because he is slow and unathletic as #$&#, not because he's mentally weak.

 

[10027]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Osh Kosh Bosh:

---

How about Kenyon Martin, another dude with a career rebounding rate lower than Dirk, never here whispers about his toughness, or Rasheed Wallace and on Jason Kidd, I totally disagree, is he John Wall? No. But he def at least an above average athlete and is bigger and stronger than 90% of point guards. It's insulting to my intelligence and Jason Kidds talent to suggest that the only reason he gets board is because he is the only one trying. smiley: laugh

"Soft" is almost always just a intellectually lazy copout argument.

Plus if you just look at defensive rebounding and ignore offensive (Dirk shoots 3's so he has a harder time grabbing offensive rebounds.) Dirk has a higher rate than Luis Scola, Serge Ibaka, Anderson Varejoa, Mcdysse, Nazr Mohammed, and equal too Birdman, Drew Gooden, Kendrik Perkins.

Soooo...again I think there are for more logical explanations for Dirks lack of rebounds than "softness"

When I think of Kenyon Martin, I think of dunks in traffic, power dribbles to the basket, and altered shots in traffic... but the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk is mainly because he's black; you're absolutely right. Has nothing to do with the fact that Dirk literally does NONE of those things consistently, almost to the point of 'never'. Nope. Has nothing to do with that. It's just because KMart is black and Dirk is white. End of story. You nailed it.

Birdman? I think of blocks, block attempts, altered shots, and rebounds in traffic. No, not a blocking machine like Hakeem, or a rebounding nut like Rodman, but I think of a guy in traffic fighting for boards and trying to alter shots. But the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk, again, is because he's bla... wait, no that doesn't work with this one. Hmmm... well then why the hell is it that I think of him as tougher than Dirk? It's not that he's black, it's not their actual play on the court. What the hell? I'm confused.

Maybe... just MAYBE... it' because when I think of 5 things Dirk brings to the table, the first three are 'Jump shots', 'Shooting', and 'Making it rain', but when I think of other guys with a reputation for being tough (or at least tougher than him), I think of some kind of combination of BLOCKED/ALTERED SHOTS, REBOUNDS ON THE DEFENSIVE & OFFENSIVE END, and going TO the basket instead of AWAY from it.



Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony don't do any of these things either, and I don't see anyone calling them soft.  Dirk is a star player who scores and you are comparing him to defensive specialists like Kenyon Martin and Birdman (who literally doesn't do anything else)?  The guy is one of the most efficient scorers in the game, I don't know how you have a basis for complaining about how he gets his points.  He doesn't drive all the time because he is slow and unathletic as #$&#, not because he's mentally weak.

 

[Trey Bantz]

Only now is he getting the credit he's deserved all along.

 

[Trey Bantz]

Only now is he getting the credit he's deserved all along.

 

[tonyreali]

Originally Posted by Sole into it

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

This man is a BUM.

LOL anthony carter is weak. I hope you're his son or something posting this guy. But seriously...