RIP George Floyd

[Magic33]

the wire is the best law enforcement related production in history. It shows that "good cops" exist but it also shows that cops will do whatever it takes to get their desired outcome, not to mention their harassment on the communities they serve.

It also shows that cops at the end of the day will stick together.

Daniels was a good cop, but still covered for Pryz, Herc and Carver. Instead they were often more annoyed by McNulty. Some was for his own career, but also there's. I wonder if good cops think they can be good influences on bad ones by setting good examples.

 

[Upptempo]

this was a great interview. Thanks for posting this. He made a great point by saying they want you to be dumb enough to be malleable. It's very true because every cop I've ever met believes it's them vs the public rather than Cops + The Public vs Crime

 

[Magic33]

yall keep acting like a degree
makes someone less racist

Dude, it requires more training to get a barbers license than to become a policeman. In less than 1200 hours you can become a policeman in a lot of these cities.

If you don't think that's backwards as ****, I'm not sure what to tell you.

You have to hope that policeman you encounter was a soldier and might have more clue of combat or a high stress situation.

 

[rexanglorum]

 

[obeahmyal7]

Simple.

Because of the loophole in the 13th amendment.

AMENDMENT XIII
SECTION 1
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction

For more information watch 13 on Netflix...just be prepared to be enraged.

This is great, but I'm not convinced that prison labor is the culprit for expanding police budgets despite declining crime.

Prison labor is absolutely essential but mostly for minimizing expenditures. So you pay prisoners pathetic wages for fighting raging fires in California, instead of the prevailing wage for municipal fire fighters.

From my understanding, the story of expanding police budgets has more to do with

1. The rise of the police as a "collective political actor, capable of acting in their own self-interest" (https://jacobinmag.com/2020/06/police-spending-austerity-defund-pandemic),
2. The War on Crime/Drugs, and
3. The remarkable rehabilitation of the police post-labor strikes during the 1970s, and which assumed greater force post 9/11.

By definition, the criminalization of blackness and the role of police in furthering a colonial-capitalist project, means that black people and racialized others bear the brunt of policing. And the bi-partisan interest in a 'tough on crime' politics has meant that the liberal-conservative divide fades away when it comes to supporting local police departments.

 

[nawghtyhare]

isnt that what the insane clown posse fans call themselves???

 

[SpittaJetLife]

We gotta work on corporate American next after police. Gotta force these corporations that are suddenly woke to higher black folk.

 

[nawghtyhare]

Prison labor is absolutely essential but mostly for minimizing expenditures. So you pay prisoners pathetic wages for fighting raging fires in California, instead of the prevailing wage for municipal fire fighters.

what are u talking about
pay prisoners meaningless wages
to battle a fire and might even lose their life doing it
but a real fire fighter needs an actual degree
and cant have no record in order to be one

 

[Magic33]

No intelligent person becomes a police officer if we're keeping it . There are smart people who work for police department in other fields like accounting or legal or whatever. But 99% of cops are cops because it's all they can get into and "succeed."

In NYC, being a cop is essentially the route dudes who don't have a plan get into. If you're 21+ and you dunno what career field you wanna get into, you become a cop. Or if you're approaching 30 and your life path isn't going to plan, you become a cop. You're told by other cops that you'll be making six figures in 5 years and you'll get a pension and retire before most people.

They don't become cops because they wanna make their city safer. That's like reason #238

I'm speaking from my experience in NYC. Back when I had a Facebook account, anyone I went to school with that became a cop was a moron when we were in school together. This is about 15-20 people and almost every one was dumb as **** in school.

I might have been over shooting when I said 99% are not above average intelligence, but if you picked any 10 random NYPD officers off the street, I'd bet money 6 or more are not smart guys. I'm sure there's intelligent people who work for the police departments but I haven't met many in my experiences.

I actually disagree with this.

A lot of people become cops, because of the pension.

Say you went to the army or marines. You got out, didn't really gain a skill, but you can become a cop. Your healthcare is on the military You might have gotten medically discharged,(more money) but it doesn't stop you from becoming a cop.

You do an easy 20. That's what most cops really want to do.

You retire by 50. You can earn six figures easily, take that and move down south. A friends dad did that.

 

[Mark Antony]

Shout out Governor Blackface I guess

I have a very cynical view of Juneteenth, though I feel I may be wrong and might come around some day. Like thanks for not enslaving me any more?

 

[nawghtyhare]

Dude, it requires more training to get a barbers license than to become a policeman. In less than 1200 hours you can become a policeman in a lot of these cities.

If you don't think that's backwards as ****, I'm not sure what to tell you.

You have to hope that policeman you encounter was a soldier and might have more clue of combat or a high stress situation.

ur missing MY point
not saying it invalidates urs
cause ive stated that same exact thing
in this very thread

 

[obeahmyal7]

what are u talking about
pay prisoners meaningless wages
to battle a fire and might even lose their life doing it
but a real fire fighter needs an actual degree
and cant have no record in order to be one

Sure, but you're actually underscoring my point and missing the original question.

Brownstone originally asked:

"Over the past 25 years by nearly every metric (property crime, violent crime etc) Crime has decreased by more than 50% in this country. Now in corporate America when an initiative is not producing returns, funding is cut or reallocated. Why are budgets INCREASING for police across the country when crime has plummeted with police shootings skyrocketing?"

Then a few NT'ers offered prison labor and the 13th Amendment as the answer. I said that if that's the case, then why is it that police budgets don't really take off until the 1960s, and especially post 1980s? That is, if the 13th Amendment is the culprit, you'd expect mushrooming police budgets immediately after 1865. But that's not the case. So how can that be the answer?

 

[nawghtyhare]

Sure, but you're actually underscoring my point and missing the original question.

Brownstone originally asked:

"Over the past 25 years by nearly every metric (property crime, violent crime etc) Crime has decreased by more than 50% in this country. Now in corporate America when an initiative is not producing returns, funding is cut or reallocated. Why are budgets INCREASING for police across the country when crime has plummeted with police shootings skyrocketing?"

Then a few NT'ers offered prison labor and the 13th Amendment as the answer. I said that if that's the case, then why is it that police budgets don't really take off until the 1960s, and especially post 1980s? That is, if the 13th Amendment is the culprit, you'd expect mushrooming police budgets immediately after 1865. But that's not the case. So how can that be the answer?

i didnt even read the rest of ur post
i got stuck there
also i didnt realize that folks
were actually even answering the 13th amendment
as an answer to any question
i just assumed it was brought up
just for more discussion
and enlightening folks who didnt know

 

[Nike Jordan]

isnt that what the insane clown posse fans call themselves???

Juggalos.

 

[nawghtyhare]

Juggalos.

ooooh ok

 

[obeahmyal7]

i didnt even read the rest of ur post
i got stuck there
also i didnt realize that folks
were actually even answering the 13th amendment
as an answer to any question
i just assumed it was brought up
just for more discussion
and enlightening folks who didnt know

. No question, the 13th Amendment is a big part of the mass incarceration story.

 

[aepps20]

I have a very cynical view of Juneteenth, though I feel I may be wrong and might come around some day. Like thanks for not enslaving me any more?

My job is giving us Friday off for Juneteenth. I am very skeptical of these "gestures".

 

[nawghtyhare]

My job is giving us Friday off for Juneteenth. I am very skeptical of these "gestures".

everyone
or just the black people???

 

[aepps20]

everyone
or just the black people???

Everyone fam. Even our international law offices are getting the day off. Will I be billing hours that day? Yes I will.

 

[mplsdunk]

what are u talking about
pay prisoners meaningless wages
to battle a fire and might even lose their life doing it
but a real fire fighter needs an actual degree
and cant have no record in order to be one

and when the prison fire fighters get out they can’t be paid fire fighters.

 

[Brownstone]

This is great, but I'm not convinced that prison labor is the culprit for expanding police budgets despite declining crime.

Prison labor is absolutely essential but mostly for minimizing expenditures. So you pay prisoners pathetic wages for fighting raging fires in California, instead of the prevailing wage for municipal fire fighters.

From my understanding, the story of expanding police budgets has more to do with

1. The rise of the police as a "collective political actor, capable of acting in their own self-interest" (https://jacobinmag.com/2020/06/police-spending-austerity-defund-pandemic),
2. The War on Crime/Drugs, and
3. The remarkable rehabilitation of the police post-labor strikes during the 1970s, and which assumed greater force post 9/11.

By definition, the criminalization of blackness and the role of police in furthering a colonial-capitalist project, means that black people and racialized others bear the brunt of policing. And the bi-partisan interest in a 'tough on crime' politics has meant that the liberal-conservative divide fades away when it comes to supporting local police departments.

I can understand the rise of police budget allocation with the war on crime and drugs in the 80s/90s because that correlated with increased crime.

I can even understand the increase post 9/11 in certain cities. Cities with tourist attractions should have an elevated police presence and the budget that comes with it.

What I feel is actually the answer is what I highlighted in your response above, truth is Police exist to protect property not individuals, and individuals with property vote and in turn want their property protected at any cost. We all know that housing discrimination is a major factor of economic disparity for black people in this country ie white people are approving these budgets. It has become far too easy to approve increased funding (which your article highlights, great article btw) as a bipartisan "cure" or continued "cure" for crime.

I hope my hometown of Minneapolis provides a footprint of what policing can look like, and I hope incentives are discussed, because that is what matters. Incentives should be tied to reduced crime AND reduced shootings. Police should not be tax collectors, they should be peace keepers.

 

[ahat]

am i the only one
who has always hated how changes took the verse from this
i swear no one ever mentions this
but i hate changes
just cause it took the verse from here

The spice 1 homage tho

 

[obeahmyal7]

I can understand the rise of police budget allocation with the war on crime and drugs in the 80s/90s because that correlated with increased crime.

I can even understand the increase post 9/11 in certain cities. Cities with tourist attractions should have an elevated police presence and the budget that comes with it.

What I feel is actually the answer is what I highlighted in your response above, truth is Police exist to protect property not individuals, and individuals with property vote and in turn want their property protected at any cost. We all know that housing discrimination is a major factor of economic disparity for black people in this country ie white people are approving these budgets. It has become far too easy to approve increased funding (which your article highlights, great article btw) as a bipartisan "cure" or continued "cure" for crime.

I hope my hometown of Minneapolis provides a footprint of what policing can look like, and I hope incentives are discussed, because that is what matters. Incentives should be tied to reduced crime AND reduced shootings. Police should not be tax collectors, they should be peace keepers.

I hear you, g. The only thing I'd add is that to the extent that mayors (as the elected executive at the local level) exercise some influence over budgets, it's not just white people approving these ridiculous funds for police.

Especially since the 1970s, black mayors have presided over cities that have also seen major upticks in funding for 12. It goes back to black elected officials folded into the Democratic Party and who broke bread with white democrats and republicans over tough on crime policing.

But more importantly, I wish you and all the folks doing the work great success in Minneapolis.

 

[Present]

I can understand the rise of police budget allocation with the war on crime and drugs in the 80s/90s because that correlated with increased crime.

I can even understand the increase post 9/11 in certain cities. Cities with tourist attractions should have an elevated police presence and the budget that comes with it.

What I feel is actually the answer is what I highlighted in your response above, truth is Police exist to protect property not individuals, and individuals with property vote and in turn want their property protected at any cost. We all know that housing discrimination is a major factor of economic disparity for black people in this country ie white people are approving these budgets. It has become far too easy to approve increased funding (which your article highlights, great article btw) as a bipartisan "cure" or continued "cure" for crime.

I hope my hometown of Minneapolis provides a footprint of what policing can look like, and I hope incentives are discussed, because that is what matters. Incentives should be tied to reduced crime AND reduced shootings. Police should not be tax collectors, they should be peace keepers.

War on Crime = Dog Whistle Politics.

Reality = War on Black people.

War on Drugs = Dog Whistle Politics.

Reality = War on Hippies.

"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or blacks, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities."

- Nixon domestic policy adviser John Ehrlichman

 

[Upptempo]

isnt that what the insane clown posse fans call themselves???

i think that was the name of a song by Destiny's Child. They're a branch of the Bey Hive