***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

So, what's up with the vitriol and rhetoric online coming out of some Democrat supporters going after minorities and pro-Palestinians, and unleashing anti-immigration rhetoric? It is like the Blue MAGA of Democrats. It is indistinguishable from Trump's MAGA crowd.

The Democrats are a tenuous mix of people with a vast array of non-overlapping priorities. Everyone thinks their issue is “the point” of the party and so in defeat, there’s going to be a lot of finger pointing at everyone else as “the reason” they lost. This thread is a good example.

 

[8pm at msg]

A combo of transplants, white residents who've always felt this way and various minority groups who think riding with the winning team will make them better off

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I think people forget the differences between 2016 Bernie and 2020 Bernie.
People liked Bernie because he's authentic, anti establishment, and was somewhat heterodox

not because they wanted socialism.

I thought Bernie was the best candidate in 2020, but he also got absorbed into the progressive activist blob.

and lost all the heterodox things that made him popular with swing voters.

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

Huh

I didn't make it a white guy thing the post I responded to mentioned focused on white men

Yeah, osh kosh bosh , I think he was more replying to me.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Huh

I didn't make it a white guy thing the post I responded to mentioned focused on white men

my bad

 

[osh kosh bosh]

A combo of transplants, white residents who've always felt this way and various minority groups who think riding with the winning team will make them better off

you guys have such a low opinion of your fellow americans.

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

you guys have such a low opinion of your fellow americans.

That’s because we live with them.

 

[rolaholic]

I am not seeing as much criticism against Joe Biden and Democrats for throwing Kamala under the bus to be the bait, taking too long to replace Joe, and then putting a woman of color to take the fall with only 4 months to campaign. That's also racism and misogyny at play.

Yea feel like most folks who voted for him, and even the Dems in congress , were under the assumption that he was gonna serve 1 term from the jump then stand down come re-election time. He even alluded to as much himself on the campaign trail but down the line he changed his mind.

That decision put the party in tight spot from the offset. Staying in the race until 3 months left of the campaign was always gonna provide a big handicap for whoever would be put on the ticket next.

Mistakes were made on the campaign trail for sure and that's what will continue to be discussed in detail but the hubris that led him to flip on running again played a big part in the eventual outcome

 

[sfc415]

you guys have such a low opinion of your fellow americans.

How are you saying this to people who have actually grown up and lived here for decades while experiencing this firsthand??

The people who threw rocks at me and vandalized my parents’ home in 2002 after they thought we were Middle Eastern did that because Latinx activists from 2024 made them angry?

Those people have always been here. They just feel more emboldened now because they think there aren’t any consequences.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

was this enough proof? rolaholic

 

[osh kosh bosh]

How are you saying this to people who have actually grown up and lived here for decades while experiencing this firsthand??

im just observing something. i didn't argue.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

You guys sound like Mitt Romney Republicans after he lost.

 

[1995]

Just over the "don't blame the people who didn't vote, blame the democrats for not having a good platform"

Like why can't both be blamed?

The monday morning quarterbacks placing the entirety of blame on their personal grievances are running rampant on Twitter right now

 

[osh kosh bosh]

remember guys! the true socialism has never been tried! never moderate, keep going left!!!

 

[gry60]

black people don't like this, latinos don't like it, NOBODY LIKES THIS ****.

if progressive cultural politics loses you black and latino people. something HAS TO CHANGE.

How much of this is based on the perception of the Democratic platform vs the reality of the platform? Remember that perception is not only shaped by the party; it's also shaped by those who oppose it. When you look at the progressive parts of the Biden agenda, they had mostly to do with jobs and protecting rights, and little to do with granular culture war issues.

It is the Right that has been fixated on pushing the narrative that Democrats want to turn everyone into a trans person, and you're denying them their propaganda victory by blaming the Democratic messaging.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

I disagree. Democracy only works if you abide by the votes of the people. She may very well still believe that he will take away democracy, and I’d be right there beside her believing that same notion. But if the people vote for fascism, are perfectly fine with having their voice suppressed, and want to see an agent of chaos wreak havoc, it would be hypocritical of her to say the election was rigged or even try to influence Biden into disqualifying the election. Because at that point she would become exactly what they are. behind the scenes she’s probably thinking the same thing we are, “he’s gonna **** this up again.“ But at face, she had to be gracious in defeat even if she’s seething at her core.

This is probably the most depressing aspect of this election-people clearly want a strongman that does all of this.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Trump pushes for a third term at this point. The GOP would wholeheartedly support him, if so.

 

[1995]

How are you saying this to people who have actually grown up and lived here for decades while experiencing this firsthand??

Ian Miles Osh

 

[elpablo21]

my bad

I don't even disagree with a good portion of this stuff and I'm not gonna act like men of other races aren't involved or feel unheard or whatever

Maybe this place has capped out progressing in some ways, doesnt feel farfetched at all. I just want Dems to still push for progressive policies and maybe it needs to be masked better so some of these men feel they're at the forefront of it instead of "They/Them".

Some of this talk just feels wicked though I'm ngl

 

[osh kosh bosh]

How much of this is based on the perception of the Democratic platform vs the reality of the platform? Remember that perception is not only shaped by the party; it's also shaped by those who oppose it. When you look at the progressive parts of the Biden agenda, they had mostly to do with jobs and protecting rights, and little to do with granular culture war issues.

yah but the way dem aligned institutions talk about it is absultuley infused with granular culture war issues.

and fair or not people associate these institutions with the democratic party.

It is the Right that has been fixated on pushing the narrative that Democrats want to turn everyone into a trans person, and you're denying them their propaganda victory by blaming the Democratic messaging.

your political opponents are always going to charicacture you, lie about you ect.

it is a democratic party failure if you can't effectively combat it.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Ian Miles Osh

there are other non americans in here.

 

[rolaholic]

was this enough proof? rolaholic

The tax funded gender affirmation for inmates literally began under Trump

Under Trump, U.S. Prisons Offered Gender-Affirming Care

The Trump administration’s approach is notable in light of a campaign ad that slams Vice President Kamala Harris for supporting taxpayer-funded transgender surgeries for prisoners and migrants.

www.nytimes.com

Trump administration ‘signed off’ on sex-change surgeries for transgender prisoners

Officials in the justice department gave the green light to procedures in 2018 while Donald Trump was in the White House

www.telegraph.co.uk

He didn't advertise it but he had no problem with it being law while in power.

Nice personal letterheads from Liz but where is the actual policy centered around imposing 'latinx' on anyone?

The California bill on not needing to notify parents on their child's pronouns/name isn't some outrageous extremist thing to me I'm sorry . Looking into it, sounds like a measure taken to safeguard kids from potential identity based retribution at home.

That sort of thing literally doesn't impact anyone's lives outside of those that its aimed at protecting so I don't see rational reasons for outrage on that in particular

 

[staffsgtdignam]

Kamala moderate campaign in 100 days took a guaranteed loss to a coin flip.

She improved her approval rating, and she did better in places she campaigned vs places that she didn't.

And your conclusion from all this is the voters actually wanted more Bidenism? I think that's crazy.

Her campaign was working, there just wasn't enough time and she couldn't seperate from Biden.


Also her super moderate campaign basically only moderated rhetorically and she didn't really pick any fights with anyone on her left.

She basically split the baby.

Agree with all of this.

The thing is, progressives hated Biden over Gaza so any/all of his progressive policy victories were basically swept under the rug because of it.

 

[Armada]

If this all boils down to is

Progressive beliefs, Progressive policy, Moderate language

I can get with that. It is a little annoying yea but I’m not gonna be like those people I just complained about that can’t see the forest for the trees. I want progress I want productivity and I want better lives for people.

 

[1995]

there are other non americans in here.

You're one of a kind

 

[dacomeup]

you need only look at the Trump campaign. what ads did they run the most?

The Kamala trans prison ad. Do you think they did this because they thought her weakness was that she wasn't left wing enough?

so, out of all of the progressive policies I talk about — you mention a trans prison ad that was irrelevant to any economic policy put forth by Biden or Kamala?

nobody votes on foreign policy.

People absolutely vote on not wanting money that they feel should be going towards the country going towards wars instead. The rise of populism here has led people to not want to be in wars. Partly why Bush ended up so unpopular, and Trump ran the first time on ending forever wars. Wars aren’t popular. There’s a reason why Warhawks are on the fringes now

so you need to explain what is the progressive politics that Biden/ Kamala were missing.

because Bidens policies were cooked up by Bernie and Liz Warren advisors. what is the progressive policy they missed?

You say all this and then you make a distinction between some of the more cultural progressivism and actual progressive policies in the next post . I’m clearing making an argument for the progressive policies, which you understand. Like I said, Biden and Kamala lost against inflation and being able to message the wins on the economy based on their progressive policies because people still felt the pressure of high groceries and gas.

blaming it on children consuming podcasters is absolving progressives of all blame.

You’re doing the thing again.

I list out a whole bevy of issues and this is what I’m blaming it on There’s a multitude of issues that lost the Dems the election and losing in connecting via the SM space, where most people consume content these days is a big problem. The whole party deserves blame. They failed. They clung to cultural issues that a lot of the electorate don’t care about or even were turned off by. But policies that improve housing affordability, financial stability, wages going up, etc are still popular. Moderating the message on that is not the answer.

Your primary battle in this thread is always against cultural progressivism, to the point where you feel the need to divert the conversation to that when that’s not the topic. Yes, white people don’t like to be called racist. They haven’t for hundreds of years at this point. Latinos, Carribeans, Arabs and African immigrants seem to skew even more culturally conservative, and have a desire for proximity to whiteness that’s counter to the general Black American experience in this country. It’s something that the party will have to figure out, but I’m not in agreement that the answer is more moderate economic policy.