***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Benny Hinn]

I talked about this with my wife the other day and a part of me thinks we wouldn’t be. Trump and everything maga is a response to 8 years of Obama, trump made his political name off Obama with the birther BS. I don’t even think we here right now if it was only 4 years of Obama. It’s sad and no fault of his own but this country has proved not only was it not ready for a black president but it would be extremely resentful that he was successful (defining that as winning reelection) and they gonna make as many people suffer because of it.

but it’s not all on him and I don’t blame him at all and I’m glad he did what he did. republicans were trending more and more right no matter what. Maybe it accelerated their extremism but they were going their regardless.

Hell, people have already said that Obama's joke about Trump at the WHCD caused all this

 

[sonoftony]

 

[dacomeup]

a war that america is in vs a war our allies are in his different. aside from some small number of Palestinians nobody is basing their vote on Gaza or Ukraine. certainly not enough to change the result.nobody cared about the war in yemen we funded in 2020 or Libya in 2012.

You went from nobody is doing x, to only Palestinians are doing y, and it’s still wrong.

Obviously I agree donald Trumps policies will be worse for inflation, but most voters don't know that...

Again, messaging issue. They’re fighting perception which is something that they’ll have to figure out. It’s not a policy issue

 

[af1 1982]

Definitely did not happen but point remains the same

 

[osh kosh bosh]

You went from nobody is doing x, to only Palestinians are doing x, and it’s still wrong.

i didn't realize i needed to say this but when i say "nobody" im speaking colloquially,

obviously it's not literally nobody.

for me to believe that people care about this, show me the people that cared about Yemen, or cared about Libya.

maybe im misremembering it i don't recall any of that mattering to electoral outcomes.

Again, messaging issue. They’re fighting perception which is something that they’ll have to figure out. It’s not a policy issue

the policies you chose to implement / champion is messaging. the two are intertwined.

in a high inflation environment and you are championing, student load debt forgiveness, child tax credit, increased stimulus spending.

that is a message and a policy.

 

[Belgium]

i didn't realize i needed to say this but when i say "nobody" im speaking colloquially,

obviously it's not literally nobody.

for me to believe that people care about this, show me the people that cared about Yemen, or cared about Libya.

maybe im misremembering it i don't recall any of that mattering to electoral outcomes.

I'm not sure about electoral impact but I've made the Yemen point several times over in the Gaza/Israel thread.

I'm pretty sure that Libya had an electoral impact but only because the US directly intervened.
The US only provides indirect support to Israel and Yemen in those conflicts; political cover and arms deals.

The Saudi-led war against the Houthis in Yemen has killed a minimum of 100k people, with estimates ranging up into the 300k range.
In addition to that, the Saudi coalition has moved to a strategy of slow starvation rather than direct warfare. Many thousands of Yemeni citizens are bound to die in the coming years due to the massive starvation issue.
Despite this, Yemen gets practically no attention in comparison to Gaza, despite the US also providing arms deals to Saudi Arabia's military intervention and subsequent bombing campaign in Yemen.

I'm guessing part of this is due to a difference in strategy. Saudi Arabia has a vastly higher killcount in Yemen but they've spread it out through a much slower paced bombing and starvation campaign. Gaza on the other hand is a fast paced bloodbath that instantly racked up a massive amount of civilian casualties.

 

[paulwest1985]

Completely agree! There needs to be a teardown from top to bottom of the DNC. Schumer, Harrison, Jefferies.........they all need the boot!

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I'm not sure about electoral impact but I've made the Yemen point several times over in the Gaza/Israel thread.

I'm pretty sure that Libya had an electoral impact but only because the US directly intervened.
The US only provides indirect support to Israel and Yemen in those conflicts; political cover and arms deals.

again im not saying literally nobody.
yah the freaks in the Israel gaza thread im sure, they care about a bunch of weird stuff.


which election did this impact? did anyone win or lose a presidential election based of this? did it significantly impact the margin?


like i don't think people are winning or losing election based of gaza or ukrain or libiya or Yemen.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Yemen gets practically no attention in comparison to Gaza, despite the US also providing arms deals to Saudi Arabia's military intervention and subsequent bombing campaign in Yemen.

hmmm its almost like people aren't principally against america supporting problematic allies in foreign wars.

 

[Belgium]

again im not saying literally nobody.
yah the freaks in the Israel gaza thread im sure, they care about a bunch of weird stuff.


which election did this impact? did anyone win or lose a presidential election based of this? did it significantly impact the margin?


like i don't think people are winning or losing election based of gaza or ukrain or libiya or Yemen.

I think you misunderstood. I'm not disagreeing with you. I just added some points I deemed relevant.
I think Libya does have a substantial impact, because people don't like direct US involvement in war. Libya is included in that category of Iraq etc.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

SAS 2028

 

[Belgium]

hmmm its almost like people aren't principally against america supporting problematic allies in foreign wars.

Indirect support is traditionally not viewed as particularly egregious in general. You don't really hear many people saying Iran is at war with x or y because of the conflicts that Iran's proxies like Hezbollah are engaged in.

The Saudi model of warfare in Yemen has successfully proven that you can avoid virtually all political scrutiny if you sufficiently spread out your massacre over time, rather than causing huge bloodbaths in a very short period. Likewise, the Russian invasion of Ukraine is also a relatively slow conflict. There have been many casualties but none have been concentrated in a very short period of time.

 

[elpablo21]

 

[Belgium]

I can't answer that question without getting banned for promoting self-harm, sorry.

 

[me love nutella]

Definitely did not happen but point remains the same

 

[osh kosh bosh]

TO BE CLEAR I don't think they should nominate SAS.


but tbh i think there is a lesson in SAS general public persona.


SAS is almost certainly is a standard issue democrat. im sure he'd support most progressive policy.

but moderate or conservative men can watch first take and they don't think of him that way. He can go on fox news and be friends with Hannity

you can imagine him going on Joe Rogan and seeming cool and entertaining,.



you can be democrat without coming off like an out of touch weirdo.

 

[Raji Lowenthal]

Was looking at the Northeast states.

God damn Trump got so many more votes than before.

I work with the homeless in NYC and even some of them were pro-trump because the migrants are receiving better services than they are in many cases. Anytime a shelter was opened near a majority Caucasian enclave in the burbs it was met with protests, not always peaceful.

 

[eracism]

im trippin off this dude's wife

 

[brian8598]

Sad part is relative to inflation real wages are higher since January 2020 but people don’t care. But yea people are crying about prices even though most have more money in their pockets anyway.

I hear this, but but to most everyone I know, their pay his gone up little to nothing over the past 5+ years and literally everything costs more money. Numbers gotta be heavily skewed to the middle and upper classes on these wage increases. We definitely aren't seeing them down here. I could see how people would vote for change solely based on that. Not me, but it's not surprising.

 

[mplsdunk]

My pay has gone up dramatically but yeah a lot of people’s haven’t. My sister in law got like a .15 cent raise or something crazy.

 

[a-friend]

Listen from about the 9 minute mark for about a minute on what Socrates has to say about democracy.

Socrates/Gorgias thoughts on Rhetoric were very interesting​

-"Gorgias argues that rhetoric is a powerful tool that can be used to persuade people and achieve Success in public life regardless of the moral implications of ones actions"
-"Socrates insists that rhetoric if used without regard for Justice and Truth is a form of manipulation that leads people away from virtue."
.

Socrates' debates with Gorgias(the leading Sophist) could be a Degree at any UNIVERISTY.
As I type this I stop and just google Democracy and Sophism
insert from that link....."In essence, what Gorgias taught is what you still learn in English 102 or law school: how to win arguments by speaking well and manipulating the law to your advantage"
Gorgias thoughts on RHETORIC
Socrates thoughts on RHETORIC

 

[had pants]

 

[Air Champa]

Dems need a complete reboot. There's no doubt about that. They're probably going to try and find the whitest white man they possibly can. It just seems like that's the reality at this point. Maybe we can get a female vice president like Whitmer or something.

You sometimes have to wonder if Obama would have ever happened if George Bush hadn't messed up so bad.

 

[daruma]

Got my first bit of good news from this mess. Its small but its something.

Little backstory: My wife has a good friend who is pretty liberal, a minority, and is a solid 8-9. Just a very good looking woman and has a good career. Couple years back she started dating and married this absolute meathead chud. Typical maga/rogan bro and no one ever knew what she saw in him. They recently moved to a red state so he could be a truck driver. Dude pretty much voted solely on immigration and this caused tension for a while leading up to the election.

Fast forward to tonight, he went home after drinking with his bros. She told him she's getting her tubes tied and he said no. She asked him if he'd raise the baby if she got raped and dude had no idea what she was even talking about. Big fight ensued and now she has a plane ticket tomorrow morning to come stay at our house and she's filing for divorce.

Dude threw away his marriage to someone way, way out of his league cause he was scared of immigrants while living in a suburb 1500 miles from the border.

Sorry for the rant but probably the first time I smiled since yesterday.

this is NT. pics?

 

[ajiiiplatinum]

What a time



This is the takeaway from noted YT/tiktok leftist, David Brooks...

Like Chris Tucker said in Rush Hour 2...behind every big crime there's a rich white guy.
The rich white guy is Wall Street (hedge funds, private equity, big banks) and Big Tech.
These people will only allow moderate democrats to rise up....democrats that will not threaten big business.
Sorry to sound so cynical but Dem and Rep politicians are bought. Very few are not, and they primarily belong on the progressive/socialist side.
Both Republicans and Elitist/Centrist Dems think Bernie was and is crazy. There is a reason why that has been the narrative around it. Big business is threaten by him, AOC, the squad etc.
What? They dont talk enough about race or gender issues? You get at the big business issue in this country and you solve a lot of issues.
Otherwise, you want a democrat out of office? Just close some of your failing stores and blame democrats.... Just raise the price of your goods temporarily and blame inflation and dems for it.
Multi national companies, tech industries, and private equity have too much power in the country and it will only get bigger now with Trump.