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[stillin729]

Chara is a beast I dunno how you put some if these guys in the same category

Offensive d-men with some defensive talent are a dime a dozen

D-men like Chara are a rare breed

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Dude look I clearly can't illustrate the pure insanity of what you are saying.

Hockye futures best hockey forum imo top 60 list, Chara at 42.


Top 60 Defensemen of All-Time
Rank No. Player Height Weight Born Died Career Nationality
1 4 Bobby Orr 6'0" 199 1948 1966-1979 Canada
2 2 Doug Harvey 5'11" 190 1924 1989 1947-1969 Canada
3 77 Raymond Bourque 6'0" 219 1960 1979-2001 Canada
4 2 Eddie Shore 5'11" 194 1902 1985 1924-1944 Canada
5 5 Nicklas Lidström 6'2" 190 1970 1991-Present Sweden
6 5 Denis Potvin 6'0" 205 1953 1973-1988 Canada
7 4 Leonard "Red" Kelly 6'0" 195 1927 1947-1967 Canada
8 2 Viacheslav Fetisov 6'1" 215 1958 1974-1998 Russia
9 19 Larry Robinson 6'3" 220 1951 1972-1992 Canada
10 24 Chris Chelios 6'1" 190 1962 1983-2010 USA
11 22 Brad Park 6'0" 190 1948 1968-1985 Canada
12 7 Francis "King" Clancy 5'7" 155 1903 1986 1921-1937 Canada
13 7 Paul Coffey 6'0" 200 1961 1980-2001 Canada
14 3 Pierre Pilote 5'10" 178 1931 1955-1969 Canada
15 2 Sprague Cleghorn 5'10" 190 1890 1956 1910-1928 Canada
16 17 Earl Seibert 6'2' 198 1911 1990 1931-1946 Canada
17 7 Tim Horton 5'10' 180 1930 1974 1949-1974 Canada
18 2 Al MacInnis 6'2" 204 1963 1981-2004 Canada
19 4 Scott Stevens 6'2" 215 1964 1982-2004 Canada
20 44 Chris Pronger 6'6' 220 1974 1994-Present Canada
21 4 Bill Gadsby 6'0' 180 1927 1946-1966 Canada
22 21 Börje Salming 6'1" 193 1951 1970-1993 Sweden
23 2 Brian Leetch 6'0" 185 1968 1987-2006 USA
24 5 Aubrey "Dit" Clapper 6'2" 195 1907 1978 1927-1947 Canada
25 6 Valeri Vasiliev 5'11" 187 1949 1966-1984 Russia
26-T 2 Mark Howe 5'11" 185 1955 1973-1995 USA
26-T 11 Bill Quackenbush 5'11" 190 1922 1999 1942-1956 Canada
28 18 Serge Savard 6'3" 210 1946 1966-1983 Canada
29 5 Rod Langway 6'3" 218 1957 1977-1993 USA
30 8 Eddie Gerard 5'9" 168 1890 1937 1913-1923 Canada
31 2 Jack Stewart 5'10" 190 1917 1983 1938-1952 Canada
32 5 Guy Lapointe 6'0" 205 1948 1968-1984 Canada
33 27 Scott Niedermayer 6'1" 194 1973 1992-2010 Canada
34 3 Marcel Pronovost 6'0" 190 1930 1950-1970 Canada
35 2 Lionel Conacher 6'2" 195 1901 1954 1925-1937 Canada
36 William "Hod" Stuart 6'0" 190 1879 1907 1902-1907 Canada
37 3 Ivan "Ching" Johnson 5'11" 210 1898 1979 1926-1938 Canada
38 2 Jacques Laperrière 6'2" 190 1941 1962-1974 Canada
39 7 Alexei Kasatonov 6'1" 215 1959 1976–1997 Russia
40 3 Jean-Claude Tremblay 5'11 170 1939 1994 1960-1979 Canada
41 Ernest "Moose" Johnson 5'11 185 1896 1963 1905-1931 Canada
42 33 Zdeno Chára 6'9" 255 1977 1998-Present Slovakia

Look at any reputable hockey source I guerentee you wont find a single non Bostonian who thinks he's top 10 LET ALONE top 5, you will find him consistently 20-40, thats where he is right now.

You can believe what you want to believe but just understand that your opinion is WILD, and not many people share it.

 

[stillin729]

He's also still playing

 

[jjs07]

OKB - you're right...I mean, guys like Bill Quackenbush and Sprague Cleghorn were clearly superior players.

It funny to me how you call my opinion wild, but yet made the claim that guys like Pronger/Stevens were better b/c they were more intimidating/dominating in their own end.

 

[DeadsetAce]

how was that list put together? i'd be interested on knowing what went into it.

 

[dmxfury]

I've never thought of Chara as that high on all time lists but I just casually watch Bos. (Shrug) Dude is a great player though

 

[solemate96]

I'm from Boston and I watch the Bruins religiously and I will say that Lidstrom, Nierdermayer, Pronger Coffey is nowhere near Chara.

Look, Chara is an amazing physical specimen. Tall, strong, rangy an athletic as all hell. Saying that, he does not have the offensive prowess as Niedermayer, Coffey or Bourque did.

I watched Ray Bourque play ever since I was kid and he was able to control games. Bourque was a smooth-skating defenseman who I was always thought was a forward when I was young. He was amazing at just flinging at wrister on net to cause some havoc around the net.

Chara is known for his slap shot but it's like that kid from Mighty Ducks who has a wicked slapper but keeps missing all the time. That's Chara. Chara is amazingly scary coming down the ice and trying to cut to the middle. You will get leveled.

Lidstrom and Niedermayer were AMAZING DEFENSEman. Both of these guys used their stick positioning, body positioning, smarts, skating and the hockey rink to their advantage.

I love Chara and think he is a No. 1 defenseman on any given team. I just don't think he is top 5 all time. That belongs to Bobby Orr. The original offensive defenseman. He has some tall skates to fill trying to bypass Bourque and Orr alone in Boston.

 

[True Blues]

how was that list put together? i'd be interested on knowing what went into it.

HFBoards polled of a group of members. I wouldn't consider it a reputable source by any means.

I think, when all is said and done, Chara probably settles in the top-30 NHL defensemen all-time. He's on par with someone like Pronger. This ranking, however, is largely contingent on his performance in the upcoming Stanley Cup Final: a second Cup would cement his position, and a Conn might even vault him forward.

There is a consensus top-5, though (and I would suspect we won't see any player crack it in the near future):

1. Orr
2. Lidstrom
3. Harvey
4. Bourque
5. Shore

 

[jjs07]

Your 2013 Norris Winner:

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Hence, Nike Kypreos of Sportsnet has learned that P.K. Subban of the Montreal Canadiens has bested Kris Letang and Ryan Suter to win the 2012-13 Norris Trophy at the NHL’s top defenseman.

From Kypreos on Twitter:

Confirmed word out of Montreal and NY is Canadian P.K Subban will be announced during Cup final as the winner of #NHL 2013 Norris trophy.

Link

 

[fraij da 5 11]

P.K.

 

[Bad Religion]

Top 5 defenseman ever did not win the Norris this year? Wasnt even nominated?

Ah.

 

[fresh out dabox]

how was that list put together? i'd be interested on knowing what went into it.

 

[theenorthstar]

Suter.

 

[True Blues]

Top 5 defenseman ever did not win the Norris this year? Wasnt even nominated?

Ah.

But we all know how the voting for the Norris works. That is, that it's a joke.

PHWA members, who I should mention are lazy and don't watch enough games, either a) look at the defensive scoring race or b) award it to a player who deserved it in a previous season and never received it.

Letang, for instance, is NOT one of the league's top 3 defensemen. That's fairly obvious.

 

[jjs07]

But we all know how the voting for the Norris works. That is, that it's a joke.

PHWA members, who I should mention are lazy and don't watch enough games, either a) look at the defensive scoring race or b) award it to a player who deserved it in a previous season and never received it.

Letang, for instance, is NOT one of the league's top 3 defensemen. That's fairly obvious.

Karlsson, last year, should not have won.

 

[DeadsetAce]

But we all know how the voting for the Norris works. That is, that it's a joke.

PHWA members, who I should mention are lazy and don't watch enough games, either a) look at the defensive scoring race or b) award it to a player who deserved it in a previous season and never received it.

Letang, for instance, is NOT one of the league's top 3 defensemen. That's fairly obvious.

Karlsson, last year, should not have won.

Agree 100%

 

[Bad Religion]

So if you are determining the best defensemen ever, how do you go about it?

Norris trophies dont matter then? Is it Stanley Cups, season goals against?

The point Im making is its impossible to compare generation to generation unless you have watched each player play.

Again, my opinion. But all this is is opinion.

Chara is the best defensemen in the league currently, IMO.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Karlsonn deserved, he was the best d-man on offense by a huge margin, and he is a mediocre defensive player, the difference between him on offense and every other D-man was cavernous.

P.K. deserved it.


Offensive defenceman are extremely valuable, and just as valuable as their defensive counterparts. it's much harder to find offensive brilliance at that position.

I love Chris Phillips, reliable, excels in his own end but you are crazy if you don't think I would throw him overboard for a guy like Mike Green.


The one thing I cam certain of is Chara is officially one of the most overrated player of all time.

Nobody especially Zdeno Chara is touching prime Pronger on defense, nobody, +52 30 minutes a night, nobody is ever doing that again.

 

[proshares]

If you think Osh was going nuts over the Chara argument, you're gonna have him seeing red with that Karlsson slander

 

[stillin729]

So if you replaced Chara with PK or Karlsson the B's would be a better team right now?

Hellllllll no

 

[osh kosh bosh]

So if you replaced Chara with PK or Karlsson the B's would be a better team right now?

Hellllllll no

Yes, Dennis Seidenberg incredible on defense as well, PK is very good, Karlsson is much improved.


You don't think having uncreative defenseman, has something to do with their ****** power play?


PK and Karlssonn, would instantly fix that, they would be a huge upgrade over the slow, uncreative, Chara.

 

[DeadsetAce]

So if you replaced Chara with PK or Karlsson the B's would be a better team right now?

Hellllllll no

Yes, Dennis Seidenberg incredible on defense as well, PK is very good, Karlsson is much improved.


You don't think having uncreative defenseman, has something to do with their ****** power play?


PK and Karlssonn, would instantly fix that, they would be a huge upgrade over the slow, uncreative, Chara.

our PP might be better...but defensively we would be poorer. and the bruins success starts in the back end. the bruins would be worse off with PK or EK over Chara.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Like I said im not going to beat a dead, horse, but the the defensive difference between Ek/pk+ Seidenberg and Chara + Seidenberg, is not as bingas how much better the PP would be and how mcuh more dangerous their forwards would be with reduced play-making responsibilities.

thats just my opinion.

 

[DeadsetAce]

chara doesn't play with seidenberg in the regular season though...only in the post season typically. it's very rare and situational based in the regular season. the two rotated playing with hamilton all year.

EK + hamilton...disaster
PK + hamilton...average?

 

[champcruthik]

Well deserved, PK.

I don't like the PK and Karlsson argument against Big Z. Those two players don't fit Boston or Julien's MO. Chara is a perfect fit and leader for the Bruins. Strong and stout defensively. And let's not act like his slap shot isn't a huge and fearsome weapon on the PP. Anemic as it's been.

Al MacInnis is criminally underrated by the average hockey fan. #2 lined up with Pronger was a nightmare in St. Louis for opposing forwards.

Krug is our poor man's version (unseasoned as he may be) of PK and Karlsson. Skates well, gains the zone with ease, and puck handles well for a young D-man.