New York State Lawmakers Reject Gay Marriage Bill

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

While it also a lot of the Italian and Irish Catholic senators, you can't deny that minority, mainly African-American and Puerto Rican, senators are not arguably one of the larger forces behind the bill being rejected age. I think the reason Nako points that out is because it is said to see a group whose rights were restricted for s long doing the same to others. I know y'all had beef for a while but ain't no ned for the uncle tom *+$+.

Too ignorant and too uneducated to see the hypocrisy behind their attitudes toward homosexual. SMH X 10000000

thaaaat's gonna get they support, let's resort to name callin and stereotypin

civil rights movement =/= gay movement

 

[mytmouse76]

i agree with ninja...its not the same thing...i'm all for the right for them to marry...but its not the same...

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Originally Posted by HueyP in LouieV

How are you going to proclaim to be pro-gay rights but against gay marriage? Word to Joe Biden...Makes no sense and shows the true character of most politicains.

It's all politics. Sometimes I don't even think politicians lobby for things that they actually believe in in fear that they'd losethe favor of their base.

That's politics, though. Hypocrisy.

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by mytmouse76

i agree with ninja...its not the same thing...i'm all for the right for them to marry...but its not the same...

i understand the point you're trying to make ninja/myt, but tell me why you don't see any similarities?

you do know the civil rights movement also encompassed the women's rights, voting rights, and other fights

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

Originally Posted by HueyP in LouieV

How are you going to proclaim to be pro-gay rights but against gay marriage? Word to Joe Biden...Makes no sense and shows the true character of most politicains.

It's all politics. Sometimes I don't even think politicians lobby for things that they actually believe in in fear that they'd lose the favor of their base.

That's politics, though. Hypocrisy.

This is what I was getting at. WHITE democrats and several others who claimed to be pro-gay marriage turned last minute and voted against it because theyrepresent conservative bases and communities and it would hurt THEIR political aims and chances of reelection.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by HueyP in LouieV

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

While it also a lot of the Italian and Irish Catholic senators, you can't deny that minority, mainly African-American and Puerto Rican, senators are not arguably one of the larger forces behind the bill being rejected age. I think the reason Nako points that out is because it is said to see a group whose rights were restricted for s long doing the same to others. I know y'all had beef for a while but ain't no ned for the uncle tom *+$+.

Son....

Only 2 "Minority" Senators voted against it....24 White Senators voted against it.

What the hell are y'all talking about?

Ok, my bad nvm

Damn, I didn't realize that crook Espada was pro-gay marriage.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

I see a lot of similarities in the civil rights movement and this gay rights movement that we're seeing today. Could some of you note what makes the two sodifferent?

I'm not arguing that the situations of the respective groups are equally as persecutive, but at its core, I don't think they're that different.

 

[shaunhillftw49]

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

Originally Posted by HueyP in LouieV

How are you going to proclaim to be pro-gay rights but against gay marriage? Word to Joe Biden...Makes no sense and shows the true character of most politicains.

It's all politics. Sometimes I don't even think politicians lobby for things that they actually believe in in fear that they'd lose the favor of their base.

That's politics, though. Hypocrisy.

I think shorter term limits would end the career-politician

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

I see a lot of similarities in the civil rights movement and this gay rights movement that we're seeing today. Could some of you note what makes the two so different?

I'm not arguing that the situations of the respective groups are equally as persecutive, but at its core, I don't think they're that different.

they're both a fight for equal rights. at the core they're exactly the same: a citizen of the united states is being denied a right provided to othercitizens.

people will argue against that based on minor differences and personal biases.

the constitution provides fundamental rights to every human being. for centuries several of those rights were denied to Blacks and to women. One of thosefundamental rights is still being denied to same sex couples. it's a violation of a constitutional right.

as such the government should A. either rule that gay couples are allowed to marry or B. rule that according to the constitution church and state ARE separateand marriage is a religious staple and grant all citizens civil unions instead.

 

[dunksnjordans1992]

IMO people are thinking too hard... who cares. just past the damn bill its not like they are gonna force being gay on people. its not like gay people are gonnarun rampant on the streets SMH

 

[hueyp in louiev]

I didn't take issue or address your assertion that conservative senators were pimping the minority community for votes against the bill because its true.

Seeing that the impetus was on minority senators to represent the homophobic sentiments of their constituents...I would think you would applaud the fact thatthey overwhelming voted in favor of the bill.

What I took issue with was your slant that conservative Black and Latino senators were the main reason for this bill not passing. The number of votesdifference in opposition to the bill, were more than the entire number of minority senators in the first place. So even if every "minority" Senatorvoted in favor of the legislation...the bill would has still been rejected by a wide margin.

Only 2 of the 39 Nay votes came from "minorities"...so why is race even the focal point of your posts on page 1? There was only one "minority" voice speaking in opposition to the bill and many more speaking in favor of it. Who are these multiple"extremely conservative ministers" that you keep referring to?

Why didn't you mention that the entirely White Republican Senate body voted this down in unison....or that a number key White Democratic Senate votes wentagainst the bill (the real reason it was rejected) and the reason why White Democrats voted against the Bill was because of lobbying by the strongestinfluencing force in the state, the White lead Roman Catholic Church lobby?

How did 2 Minority Senators vote against the bill...while 9 voted for it and your whole first page is dedicated to the importance of presenting the fact thatit was Black and Latino bible thumping conservative Senators, who turned the tide of this debate? Who are these Black and Latino Senators you speak of? Why wasrace even brought into this thread?

Your quotes....

Some NY state senators are extremely conservative ministers (it's important to mention they're Blacks and Latinos) and have pretty much turned the debate into "the bible and what marriage means vs. homosexuals".
Can you please name some of these conservativeministers?

So yes. It is important for me to point out that the New York Senators leading the charge, and the ONLY ones willing to speak out to the press (with bible thumping justifications) are Black and Latino.
Can you name the ones who spoke out to the press in opposition?

Don't waste you time scrambling for an answer...from your own article...

In many ways, [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]Mr. Díaz seems conflicted. He relishes the role of the lonely dissident[/color], sometimes practically taunting Democratic leaders to throw him out of the party.

1 Minority Senator/Minister spoke against this bill but many more spoke and voted in favor of it. Conversely, a large percentage of White Senators [color= rgb(255, 255, 255)]on both side of the aisle[/color] voted it down. White Democrats goingagainst the party line and killing the fragile Democratic majority to do so. The bill was doomed from the jump and Ruben Diaz and Minority Senators had nothingto do with it.

You misspoke and misrepresented the dynamics behind thisvote...MAN UP!

 

[frostythepoptart]

civil rights movement is nothing like the gay rights movement jesus christ.

you can't hide being black. there aren't stickers people wear on their forehead that say gay.

a right to marriage and adopt compares to the black struggle during civil rights...

people trying to take 2000 years of tradition and throw it out and can't understand why its having trouble being pushed.

 

[RustyShackleford]

 

[o fenomeno]

i am now convinced everyone who is against gay marriage is a homophobe

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

While it also a lot of the Italian and Irish Catholic senators, you can't deny that minority, mainly African-American and Puerto Rican, senators are not arguably one of the larger forces behind the bill being rejected age. I think the reason Nako points that out is because it is said to see a group whose rights were restricted for s long doing the same to others. I know y'all had beef for a while but ain't no ned for the uncle tom *+$+.

Too ignorant and too uneducated to see the hypocrisy behind their attitudes toward homosexual. SMH X 10000000

thaaaat's gonna get they support, let's resort to name callin and stereotypin

civil rights movement =/= gay movement

I'm sorry but any minority group that has struggled for equality and doesn't sympathize with the struggles of other groups of people isignorant and hypocritical.

 

[nako xl]

Ididn't name the white conservative senators, because the general consensus is white conservatives are against gay marriage.

when i stated conservative senate ministers, i was referring to diaz and other personalities (who i was mistaken in believing were senators but are actuallyjust community leaders.) that is why after later posts, focused on that one name so as not to mislead or confuse. that however does not discredit anything isaid or change the point i made with the initial post.

it disgusts me that a black latino-american is leading the charge in this (and yes he is bible-thumping), and it disgusts me that conservatives (and to be fairdemocrats as well, so politicians in general) take advantage of minority demographics for their own political gain.

if you misinterpreted my motive for bringing up a black minister/senator or thought i was intentionally misrepresenting to lead some sort of anti-black riothere then i'll man up and apologize. but you yourself admit to seeing my point.

Originally Posted by frostythepoptart

civil rights movement is nothing like the gay rights movement jesus christ.

you can't hide being black. there aren't stickers people wear on their forehead that say gay.

a right to marriage and adopt compares to the black struggle during civil rights...

people trying to take 2000 years of tradition and throw it out and can't understand why its having trouble being pushed.

you're missing the point. the constitution says no one should HAVE TO or feel the need to hide their sex/race/gender. EVER.

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

I'm not arguing that the situations of the respective groups are equally as persecutive, but at its core, I don't think they're that different.

da right to be viewed as a HUMAN =/= da right to marry da same sex

blacks and minorities were viewed as SUB HUMAN, homosexual are just lookin for tax breaks

da more people try to compare em da more it angers me..and i ain't even black but i am a minority. da gay & lesbian movement has made ZERO moves to

find support with minorities. they naive thinking they gonna get sympathy cuz they just happen to share da same party line.

 

[frostythepoptart]

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Ididn't name the white conservative senators, because the general consensus is white conservatives are against gay marriage.

when i stated conservative senate ministers, i was referring to diaz and other personalities (who i was mistaken in believing were senators but are actually just community leaders.) that is why after later posts, focused on that one name so as not to mislead or confuse. that however does not discredit anything i said or change the point i made with the initial post.

it disgusts me that a black latino-american is leading the charge in this (and yes he is bible-thumping), and it disgusts me that conservatives (and to be fair democrats as well, so politicians in general) take advantage of minority demographics for their own political gain.

if you misinterpreted my motive for bringing up a black minister/senator and thought i was leading some sort of anti-black riot here then i'll man up and apologize. but you yourself admit to seeing my point.

Originally Posted by frostythepoptart

civil rights movement is nothing like the gay rights movement jesus christ.

you can't hide being black. there aren't stickers people wear on their forehead that say gay.

a right to marriage and adopt compares to the black struggle during civil rights...

people trying to take 2000 years of tradition and throw it out and can't understand why its having trouble being pushed.

you're missing the point. the constitution says no one should HAVE TO or feel the need to hide their sex/race/gender. EVER.

and no one has to. majority of people dont go around hating gays they just don't support their lifestyle either.

ninja hood didn't you just have a big **+ topic claiming you neverdeny being black

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Originally Posted by frostythepoptart

civil rights movement is nothing like the gay rights movement jesus christ.

you can't hide being black. there aren't stickers people wear on their forehead that say gay.

a right to marriage and adopt compares to the black struggle during civil rights...

people trying to take 2000 years of tradition and throw it out and can't understand why its having trouble being pushed.

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

I'm not arguing that the situations of the respective groups are equally as persecutive

At its core is it not a struggle for equal rights?

I throw tradition out the window when people's inalienable rights are being infringed upon, the same way a lot of people did during the civil rightsmovement. Progression is not always a bad thing.

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

I'm not arguing that the situations of the respective groups are equally as persecutive, but at its core, I don't think they're that different.

da right to be viewed as a HUMAN =/= da right to marry da same sex

blacks and minorities were viewed as SUB HUMAN, homosexual are just lookin for tax breaks

da more people try to compare em da more it angers me..and i ain't even black but i am a minority. da gay & lesbian movement has made ZERO moves to

find support with minorities. they naive thinking they gonna get sympathy cuz they just happen to share da same party line.

ninja... you realize there are large homosexual populations of people of color right? you keep saying "gays" and "minorities" as if thetwo are absolutely independent of each other

 

[shaunhillftw49]

Let's not confuse pre- and post- Reconstruction, though I still believe the comparison is a bit off

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

I'm not arguing that the situations of the respective groups are equally as persecutive, but at its core, I don't think they're that different.

da right to be viewed as a HUMAN =/= da right to marry da same sex

blacks and minorities were viewed as SUB HUMAN, homosexual are just lookin for tax breaks

da more people try to compare em da more it angers me..and i ain't even black but i am a minority. da gay & lesbian movement has made ZERO moves to

find support with minorities. they naive thinking they gonna get sympathy cuz they just happen to share da same party line.

Again.

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

I'm not arguing that the situations of the respective groups are equally as persecutive

People seem to get caught on how exigent circumstances were for blacks during the civil rights movement. That doesn't erase the fact that bothgroups were/are struggling for equal treatment. Or does it?

By the way, I'm not sure "persecutive" is a word. Someone get the thesaurus going.

 

[kinglouisxiv]

At least it's not written into the state's constitution, like California, for example, that has enshrined discrimination into law.

 

[bboy1827]

The difference between civil rights and Gay rights movement is that Gay and Lesbians are not being locked out from American Political Culture. They don'thave to go to different schools, they don't have to drink at different water fountains, they dont' have to sit on the bus. Sure they can't getmarried, which I think is dumb. The state should give taxes to Parents not to married couples anyway, because what do non-child having couples need a tax breakfor? So in essence the state should get out of Marriage as is, then let the Church Ban gay marriage, if they so chose.

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

I'm not arguing that the situations of the respective groups are equally as persecutive, but at its core, I don't think they're that different.

da right to be viewed as a HUMAN =/= da right to marry da same sex

blacks and minorities were viewed as SUB HUMAN, homosexual are just lookin for tax breaks

da more people try to compare em da more it angers me..and i ain't even black but i am a minority. da gay & lesbian movement has made ZERO moves to

find support with minorities. they naive thinking they gonna get sympathy cuz they just happen to share da same party line.

Again.

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

I'm not arguing that the situations of the respective groups are equally as persecutive

People seem to get caught on how exigent circumstances were for blacks during the civil rights movement. That doesn't erase the fact that both groups were/are struggling for equal treatment. Or does it?

By the way, I'm not sure "persecutive" is a word. Someone get the thesaurus going.

nah you good HTTB

Originally Posted by bboy1827

So in essence the state should get out of Marriage as is, then let the Church Ban gay marriage, if they so chose.

Ding!

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

I'm not arguing that the situations of the respective groups are equally as persecutive, but at its core, I don't think they're that different.

da right to be viewed as a HUMAN =/= da right to marry da same sex

blacks and minorities were viewed as SUB HUMAN, homosexual are just lookin for tax breaks

da more people try to compare em da more it angers me..and i ain't even black but i am a minority. da gay & lesbian movement has made ZERO moves to

find support with minorities. they naive thinking they gonna get sympathy cuz they just happen to share da same party line.

ninja... you realize there are large homosexual populations of people of color right? you keep saying "gays" and "minorities" as if the two are absolutely independent of each other

duh, look at atlanta, black gay capital of da united states.

doesn't mean that da gay movement has tried to engage da minority groups as a whole.