ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - What's your position NT?

[xzstrikaxz]

I always feel weird debating about illegal immigration because it can easily turn ignorant. As an immigrant who came here when I was one I am able to see both sides a little bit better. Im not tryna write an essay so ill try my best to be brief. 
 The problem with alot of people is that they always want to find someone to blame , (groups , races are easy targets),these  bad economic times are a golden opportunity to blame illegal immigrants for the lack of jobs . The problem continues as people find any reason they hear and just go with it to further "prove a point" (it doesnt matter if the information is right or wrong).  So when the news and my neighbors, friends, are sayin that illegal immigrants dont pay taxes, commit crimes, and steal jobs, it becomes very easy to follow suit.  

As stated above, Illegal immigrants do pay taxes as they commonly work with fake social security numbers (payroll tax) , which is something that is ignored by many. Also, there is such thing as a "Tax I.D" number which allows those working under the table to pay their taxes. In my experience I  know many of these immigrants would not request one of these numbers as they are in fear of the anything that deals with the federal government. Another one which is not known and commonly ignored, is having a working permit (which is something I had until I became legal), this means you are legally working in the U.S (not available for everyone). Therefore, just like me, there are plenty (wont assume on exact numbers), who are here "illegally" for years but do pay the same taxes as everyone. 

Now another problem arises because those who complain about not paying taxes also complain about illegal immigrants taking "their" jobs. Now the solution to one could be to simply let them work legally and guarantee them paying taxes , but that would also go against the other argument. This is when I see the most ignorant argument begin: They broke the law, so just send them out. Great solution (sarcasm), because that would definitely not cost the country money and resources (more sarcasm).  

So to review the other argument about crime. I believe it is not so much of an immigration problem as opponents make it out to be. Crime is crime, immigration status does not matter. I am more than positive that the immigrant community wants a safe life just like every one else (as many witness the danger of crime in countries with great poverty), we do not encourage crime. Therefore, if we are trying to stop the crime , in my opinion, it is very important to unite the immigrant community and ensure that people are identified. Some sort of identification would help keep immigrants, and these criminals "out the shadows".  I support criminals being deported because they are not bringing anything positive to this country and do not take such a great opportunity serious, nobody feels bad if and when these criminals receive justice. 

Another thing that is commonly said ( someone mentioned it on here)  is that one should go do it the "legal way",  which should be the way to go, ideally. But many fail to realize that U.S immigration laws are very strict and if your goal is to survive and provide for your family, you dont have the money to file as a legal applicant, neither do you have the time to waste as your family depends on you. 

I am curious about what part of france the guy (who mentioned legally goin back to france and waiting), I only say this because in many cases, these hispanics countries are not places you want to go back and wait. They are very dangerous and poor , and you are risking your well being when going back. 

It is obvious that immigration reform is very necessary, but also a very complicated thing to accomplish. I strongly believe that the border needs to be protected better. But regarding those who are already here, whos to decide if they are american or not? 

Just to help illustrate how complicated things are, heres an example from my life: I am 21 , Permanent resident (Green Card), will be eligible for citizenship next year. My older brother is 28 , been here just as long, no criminal record , working permit , attended college (did not finish), married to a U.S citizen , has a 1 year old daughter. What is the difference between me and him? I believe he deserves to be legal more than myself. Im just sayin many of us speak ignorantly, but things are more complicated than they appear. 

I believe everyone deserves the right to provide for theyre family and honestly without immigration many of us would not be living such great lives and pursuing our dreams. Alot of it comes down to morals and values, as long as you put your self in other peoples shoes, it becomes easier to understand. 

(smh at the dream act not passing 

)

Sorry for the long post

 

[xzstrikaxz]

I always feel weird debating about illegal immigration because it can easily turn ignorant. As an immigrant who came here when I was one I am able to see both sides a little bit better. Im not tryna write an essay so ill try my best to be brief. 
 The problem with alot of people is that they always want to find someone to blame , (groups , races are easy targets),these  bad economic times are a golden opportunity to blame illegal immigrants for the lack of jobs . The problem continues as people find any reason they hear and just go with it to further "prove a point" (it doesnt matter if the information is right or wrong).  So when the news and my neighbors, friends, are sayin that illegal immigrants dont pay taxes, commit crimes, and steal jobs, it becomes very easy to follow suit.  

As stated above, Illegal immigrants do pay taxes as they commonly work with fake social security numbers (payroll tax) , which is something that is ignored by many. Also, there is such thing as a "Tax I.D" number which allows those working under the table to pay their taxes. In my experience I  know many of these immigrants would not request one of these numbers as they are in fear of the anything that deals with the federal government. Another one which is not known and commonly ignored, is having a working permit (which is something I had until I became legal), this means you are legally working in the U.S (not available for everyone). Therefore, just like me, there are plenty (wont assume on exact numbers), who are here "illegally" for years but do pay the same taxes as everyone. 

Now another problem arises because those who complain about not paying taxes also complain about illegal immigrants taking "their" jobs. Now the solution to one could be to simply let them work legally and guarantee them paying taxes , but that would also go against the other argument. This is when I see the most ignorant argument begin: They broke the law, so just send them out. Great solution (sarcasm), because that would definitely not cost the country money and resources (more sarcasm).  

So to review the other argument about crime. I believe it is not so much of an immigration problem as opponents make it out to be. Crime is crime, immigration status does not matter. I am more than positive that the immigrant community wants a safe life just like every one else (as many witness the danger of crime in countries with great poverty), we do not encourage crime. Therefore, if we are trying to stop the crime , in my opinion, it is very important to unite the immigrant community and ensure that people are identified. Some sort of identification would help keep immigrants, and these criminals "out the shadows".  I support criminals being deported because they are not bringing anything positive to this country and do not take such a great opportunity serious, nobody feels bad if and when these criminals receive justice. 

Another thing that is commonly said ( someone mentioned it on here)  is that one should go do it the "legal way",  which should be the way to go, ideally. But many fail to realize that U.S immigration laws are very strict and if your goal is to survive and provide for your family, you dont have the money to file as a legal applicant, neither do you have the time to waste as your family depends on you. 

I am curious about what part of france the guy (who mentioned legally goin back to france and waiting), I only say this because in many cases, these hispanics countries are not places you want to go back and wait. They are very dangerous and poor , and you are risking your well being when going back. 

It is obvious that immigration reform is very necessary, but also a very complicated thing to accomplish. I strongly believe that the border needs to be protected better. But regarding those who are already here, whos to decide if they are american or not? 

Just to help illustrate how complicated things are, heres an example from my life: I am 21 , Permanent resident (Green Card), will be eligible for citizenship next year. My older brother is 28 , been here just as long, no criminal record , working permit , attended college (did not finish), married to a U.S citizen , has a 1 year old daughter. What is the difference between me and him? I believe he deserves to be legal more than myself. Im just sayin many of us speak ignorantly, but things are more complicated than they appear. 

I believe everyone deserves the right to provide for theyre family and honestly without immigration many of us would not be living such great lives and pursuing our dreams. Alot of it comes down to morals and values, as long as you put your self in other peoples shoes, it becomes easier to understand. 

(smh at the dream act not passing 

)

Sorry for the long post

 

[thegoldenchild]

it's very simple, you're illegal, which means you are not allowed to stay in the country. rules are rules, if people from europe have to follow them to become citizens, so do others, mexicans, koreans, chinese, whatever. just follow the rules and dont try to make it seem right. cause the fact is you are there without a permit/citizenship. do i think it is stupid? yeah it is, cause i feel everyone should be free to live wherever they want.. but then again, home of the free is not that much freedom as it is claimed

 

[thegoldenchild]

it's very simple, you're illegal, which means you are not allowed to stay in the country. rules are rules, if people from europe have to follow them to become citizens, so do others, mexicans, koreans, chinese, whatever. just follow the rules and dont try to make it seem right. cause the fact is you are there without a permit/citizenship. do i think it is stupid? yeah it is, cause i feel everyone should be free to live wherever they want.. but then again, home of the free is not that much freedom as it is claimed

 

[anotherprodigy]

Originally Posted by xzstrikaxz

smh @ myself for reading your entire post. I thought your post would be well-rounded as you claimed to be, but it was just as one-sided and skewed as most others (including mine). I agree with the illegals and friends and familiy of illegals posting in this thread saying, that most of us come to America as an illegal immigrant if I was in their shoes. However, that does not legitimize their actions. Wrong is wrong. Many people distribute narcotics and dabble in other illegal activities to stay afloat financially. These criminals are punished when they're arrested, although many would say it is noble to provide for one's family by any means necessary. I understand illegal immigrants' motivation, but that does not give them a free pass to ignore the laws and policy's of our country. Further insult is the fact that you feel as though they should be glorified and even rewarded. Entitlement is the sentiment that you seem to express for people here under illegal conditions.

However, I will agree with one thing you said. It was the part about how the economy influences our views. Many of us would be more forgiving of illegal immigration if we were enjoying widespread prosperity in this country. But, that is not reality. Illegal immigration is not the only factor in our effed up financial existence and nor should it be treated as such. But, it is a sub-factor and should be scrutinized in the appropriate manner. Remember, that it is not only ignorance that is fueling frustration by anti-illegal immigration. Instead of picking out their legitimate grievances, you'd rather stamp them as ignorant to protect the stolen rights of the illegitimate.

 

[anotherprodigy]

Originally Posted by xzstrikaxz

smh @ myself for reading your entire post. I thought your post would be well-rounded as you claimed to be, but it was just as one-sided and skewed as most others (including mine). I agree with the illegals and friends and familiy of illegals posting in this thread saying, that most of us come to America as an illegal immigrant if I was in their shoes. However, that does not legitimize their actions. Wrong is wrong. Many people distribute narcotics and dabble in other illegal activities to stay afloat financially. These criminals are punished when they're arrested, although many would say it is noble to provide for one's family by any means necessary. I understand illegal immigrants' motivation, but that does not give them a free pass to ignore the laws and policy's of our country. Further insult is the fact that you feel as though they should be glorified and even rewarded. Entitlement is the sentiment that you seem to express for people here under illegal conditions.

However, I will agree with one thing you said. It was the part about how the economy influences our views. Many of us would be more forgiving of illegal immigration if we were enjoying widespread prosperity in this country. But, that is not reality. Illegal immigration is not the only factor in our effed up financial existence and nor should it be treated as such. But, it is a sub-factor and should be scrutinized in the appropriate manner. Remember, that it is not only ignorance that is fueling frustration by anti-illegal immigration. Instead of picking out their legitimate grievances, you'd rather stamp them as ignorant to protect the stolen rights of the illegitimate.

 

[airblaster503]

Originally Posted by HustlinFlip

Originally Posted by likethematrix

all i know is that illegal immigrants are the reason why the US is *#!%%+ UP right now.
too many companies exist ONLY because of the extremely cheap labor afforded by the immigrants.
BUT, they pay no taxes. yet they reap better benefits than Legal, Naturally born US citizens.
its a *#!%%+ up day that i have to pay 15,436 dollars and 47 cents to Huntington Hospital in Pasadena, Ca and they wont let you get no discounts, only to find out that the mexican gangbanger who was making tons of noise down the hall gets to pay NOTHING, because he has no social security number.
so with that said, kick them all out, and make them follow the rules.
if i gotta follow the rules, then everyone does. if not, then let all the blacks, asians, and whites do the same thing.
see how well this country will work then.
alot of you guys dont have problems with illegals cause you dont live near mexico.

it makes you not want to go to home depot, or lowes because there are 50 dirty, rude people wandering around the parking lot
saying "Mayete" under their breath when you walk by, giving you an evil eye even tho you got a smile on your face.

or how about taking your little sister to school and theyre trying to speak only spanish in class cause every child is illegal and so are their mothers who dont show any respect to black men or black children and tell their sons and daughters that "the black girl doesnt belong cause Azusa is for mexicans"

this is what my 6 year old sister was told by her "best friend" a 6 year old mexican boy.
whos mother AND father are illegal.
yet he drives a 2006 Tahoe and wears ostridge boots and hats everyday and their son is a "EME" gangmember who just got out of prison and tried to "bang on me".

and you want to make these people legal citizens?

the 25% of terrible illegal immigrants make it hard to accept the other 75%.

and i swear to God i hope we dont.

they still gonna work under the table. the system is already in place for them to continue to do so.

PREACH!!!

And I do agree that if they continue to reside here illegally, THE LEAST they could do is learn English.

Why do our stores and signs have to cater to them and their language barrier?

I agree.  One of my biggest issues is the language barrier that they create.  We have several schools in the town I live in now that the bulletin boards outside are all in Spanish, a few don't even have any English on them.  When I was in HS we had a couple hundred hispanics that all the sudden showed up, and a large majority of them spoke any English or showed any initiative to even learn.  What the hell are they even doing in school.  They would just walk the halls writing their tags on the bathroom walls trying to intimidate people.  That is ridiculous.  Plus the tuition deal, why are they getting scholarships when I have been paying taxes all my life and can't get one?  My grades aren't bad but to know that I could be getting denied for some "equal opportunity" crap is wrong.  I don't disagree with immigration, but I have no respect for people that are here illegally. 

Oh yea.

I am not a racist, I'm a melting pot of friendship!!!!!!!

 

[airblaster503]

Originally Posted by HustlinFlip

Originally Posted by likethematrix

all i know is that illegal immigrants are the reason why the US is *#!%%+ UP right now.
too many companies exist ONLY because of the extremely cheap labor afforded by the immigrants.
BUT, they pay no taxes. yet they reap better benefits than Legal, Naturally born US citizens.
its a *#!%%+ up day that i have to pay 15,436 dollars and 47 cents to Huntington Hospital in Pasadena, Ca and they wont let you get no discounts, only to find out that the mexican gangbanger who was making tons of noise down the hall gets to pay NOTHING, because he has no social security number.
so with that said, kick them all out, and make them follow the rules.
if i gotta follow the rules, then everyone does. if not, then let all the blacks, asians, and whites do the same thing.
see how well this country will work then.
alot of you guys dont have problems with illegals cause you dont live near mexico.

it makes you not want to go to home depot, or lowes because there are 50 dirty, rude people wandering around the parking lot
saying "Mayete" under their breath when you walk by, giving you an evil eye even tho you got a smile on your face.

or how about taking your little sister to school and theyre trying to speak only spanish in class cause every child is illegal and so are their mothers who dont show any respect to black men or black children and tell their sons and daughters that "the black girl doesnt belong cause Azusa is for mexicans"

this is what my 6 year old sister was told by her "best friend" a 6 year old mexican boy.
whos mother AND father are illegal.
yet he drives a 2006 Tahoe and wears ostridge boots and hats everyday and their son is a "EME" gangmember who just got out of prison and tried to "bang on me".

and you want to make these people legal citizens?

the 25% of terrible illegal immigrants make it hard to accept the other 75%.

and i swear to God i hope we dont.

they still gonna work under the table. the system is already in place for them to continue to do so.

PREACH!!!

And I do agree that if they continue to reside here illegally, THE LEAST they could do is learn English.

Why do our stores and signs have to cater to them and their language barrier?

I agree.  One of my biggest issues is the language barrier that they create.  We have several schools in the town I live in now that the bulletin boards outside are all in Spanish, a few don't even have any English on them.  When I was in HS we had a couple hundred hispanics that all the sudden showed up, and a large majority of them spoke any English or showed any initiative to even learn.  What the hell are they even doing in school.  They would just walk the halls writing their tags on the bathroom walls trying to intimidate people.  That is ridiculous.  Plus the tuition deal, why are they getting scholarships when I have been paying taxes all my life and can't get one?  My grades aren't bad but to know that I could be getting denied for some "equal opportunity" crap is wrong.  I don't disagree with immigration, but I have no respect for people that are here illegally. 

Oh yea.

I am not a racist, I'm a melting pot of friendship!!!!!!!

 

[likethematrix]

you guys are missing the entire point so ima make it brief.

Illegal immigrants should not be kicked out just for being illegal.
they should be kicked out due to the negative effect on the economy that used to have structure.

alot of you in support of illegal immigrants keep spewing this nonsense about "they do jobs americans dont want to do."
that is only half true.
the full quote should be: "They do jobs americans wont do FOR THE PRICE THAT AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT WILL DO IT FOR."

emphasis on "Price"

lets use mexico and mexican immigrants as the model.

one US Dollar is equal to how man Pesos?

if youre coming from a place where you had no money and need money just to eat for the night to survive, you will accept ANY payment for a job offered.
Humans, by nature, seek to gain the most for the least amount.
so they turn from licensed, bonded, and american Landscapers/painter/field hands/gardeners/seamstresses/car washers.
they charge way too much. they have overhead costs, health care plans, corporate taxes, workers insurance.
it would be impossible for them to charge less than their bottom line costs.
so they charge $50+ to mow your lawn, trim your hedges, and take care of your plants.

BUT............

there are these guys who will do it for $20.
they have ok tools at best, just a regular truck, no real base of operations, pretty much nothing but themselves and their truck and tools.


which one do you pick america?
$20 bucks.

now Tim down the street heard that you only pay $20 dollars. He's gotta get that deal too. the 30 he saves can go towards his vintage car he's restoring.
Tim is good friends with bill and jeff and tom and jerry.
they all gotta get this deal too.

america the land of the free landscaping has just lost an entire block and $300 monthly. he cannot make it any more. he's gotta fire a few friends.
he's gotta get rid of the store front.

We dont really speak english too well nor care to landscaping just made $100 between 3 people. time for tecate.


NOW MULTIPLY THIS BY 3/5 NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE US.
and change landscaping to picking fruit or washing cars....


you cant be this blind to ignore these facts.

THESE ARE UNDENIABLE FACTS.

and how can you blindly believe MSNBC's facts and figures and not take mines into account?
cause they are on tv?

 

[likethematrix]

you guys are missing the entire point so ima make it brief.

Illegal immigrants should not be kicked out just for being illegal.
they should be kicked out due to the negative effect on the economy that used to have structure.

alot of you in support of illegal immigrants keep spewing this nonsense about "they do jobs americans dont want to do."
that is only half true.
the full quote should be: "They do jobs americans wont do FOR THE PRICE THAT AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT WILL DO IT FOR."

emphasis on "Price"

lets use mexico and mexican immigrants as the model.

one US Dollar is equal to how man Pesos?

if youre coming from a place where you had no money and need money just to eat for the night to survive, you will accept ANY payment for a job offered.
Humans, by nature, seek to gain the most for the least amount.
so they turn from licensed, bonded, and american Landscapers/painter/field hands/gardeners/seamstresses/car washers.
they charge way too much. they have overhead costs, health care plans, corporate taxes, workers insurance.
it would be impossible for them to charge less than their bottom line costs.
so they charge $50+ to mow your lawn, trim your hedges, and take care of your plants.

BUT............

there are these guys who will do it for $20.
they have ok tools at best, just a regular truck, no real base of operations, pretty much nothing but themselves and their truck and tools.


which one do you pick america?
$20 bucks.

now Tim down the street heard that you only pay $20 dollars. He's gotta get that deal too. the 30 he saves can go towards his vintage car he's restoring.
Tim is good friends with bill and jeff and tom and jerry.
they all gotta get this deal too.

america the land of the free landscaping has just lost an entire block and $300 monthly. he cannot make it any more. he's gotta fire a few friends.
he's gotta get rid of the store front.

We dont really speak english too well nor care to landscaping just made $100 between 3 people. time for tecate.


NOW MULTIPLY THIS BY 3/5 NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE US.
and change landscaping to picking fruit or washing cars....


you cant be this blind to ignore these facts.

THESE ARE UNDENIABLE FACTS.

and how can you blindly believe MSNBC's facts and figures and not take mines into account?
cause they are on tv?

 

[mr jordan04]

So why aren't Americans getting blame for supporting the landscapers and carwashes you're talking about?

 

[mr jordan04]

So why aren't Americans getting blame for supporting the landscapers and carwashes you're talking about?

 

[oh you mad]

@ all the closet racists in here.

Although,

Cambodian undocumented workers > Mexican undocumented workers

I've worked with both in the past and Cambodians get exploited like no other. I knew a group of guys who never stopped working, never complained, the most hardworking people I've ever met.
I felt bad for dudes because they would work 12+hrs and only get paid for 8 since they were expected to get the work done and they were afraid of termination. 

 

[oh you mad]

@ all the closet racists in here.

Although,

Cambodian undocumented workers > Mexican undocumented workers

I've worked with both in the past and Cambodians get exploited like no other. I knew a group of guys who never stopped working, never complained, the most hardworking people I've ever met.
I felt bad for dudes because they would work 12+hrs and only get paid for 8 since they were expected to get the work done and they were afraid of termination. 

 

[anotherprodigy]

Originally Posted by Oh YoU MaD

@ all the closet racists in here.

  You're going to derail this discussion. Now, people will spend more time claiming to be "melting pots of friendship!!"  Pointless, since most of the people in here haven't said anything remotely racist.

 

[anotherprodigy]

Originally Posted by Oh YoU MaD

@ all the closet racists in here.

  You're going to derail this discussion. Now, people will spend more time claiming to be "melting pots of friendship!!"  Pointless, since most of the people in here haven't said anything remotely racist.

 

[xzstrikaxz]

@Anotherprodigy Your right by saying my post was not well rounded, I was more tryng to defend against arguments I thought were wrong. Tryng to show the other side which people dont try to see because they are to busy being selfish but blame others for doing whats best for themselves also. I hear you argument about drug dealers "providing for theyre families", and I am not one to judge if that is the case but drugs ruin lives, illegal immigrants do not ruin lives in my view. I also clearly understand "laws are laws" argument, but unfortunately people use it as a an easy solution to a complicated problem. It makes many big hypocrites considering that we do not agree with laws neither follow all of them, but yes we should deal with the consequences we receive. The only difference is that these consequences are truly life changing, its not just going to jail for a few months, its more of separating from your family and not being able to provide for them. The fact is that immigration laws are NECESSARY , I 100 percent agree, I just feel that laws in place most people would use to argue, but dont understand them. This is why I feel we need Immigration reform because the laws in place are necessarily the right ones. Lets not forget at some point in time there was laws against african americans and I hope you wouldnt be one to say they were right simply because "the government says so, and rules are rules". Now to the point of me "glorifying" illegals , im not. I glorify hard working people who do anything to create a better life, these are the people who I support. Also, ofcouse I am biased, why should my mother and brother be risking deportation when they have been part of this country for 20 plus years, no record, payed taxes, hard working. If your answer continue to be "the law is the law", then we can just agree to disagree. Thanks for reading tho.

@likethematrix I def. can see what your sayin and i agree for the most part. I think there is a huge assumption there that those examples happen across the U.S. in the , yeah it is not so right because it forces some out of jobs. My problem is that this goes beyond immigration, We have all of these companies outsourcing to other countries which is really take away from american employment. Now with the issue of illegals doing so, I think it can all be removed by allowing them to work legally because then they are required to do so and not under the table. This way the playing field is more even and not so much at a disadvantage. For the most part, the way I see it, i am not discouraged by fair competition , it adds to worker productivity imo.

I agree with some saying it is racially motivated . We should be seeking solutions to the "problems", and not so much on steotyping and blaming a whole group.

 

[xzstrikaxz]

@Anotherprodigy Your right by saying my post was not well rounded, I was more tryng to defend against arguments I thought were wrong. Tryng to show the other side which people dont try to see because they are to busy being selfish but blame others for doing whats best for themselves also. I hear you argument about drug dealers "providing for theyre families", and I am not one to judge if that is the case but drugs ruin lives, illegal immigrants do not ruin lives in my view. I also clearly understand "laws are laws" argument, but unfortunately people use it as a an easy solution to a complicated problem. It makes many big hypocrites considering that we do not agree with laws neither follow all of them, but yes we should deal with the consequences we receive. The only difference is that these consequences are truly life changing, its not just going to jail for a few months, its more of separating from your family and not being able to provide for them. The fact is that immigration laws are NECESSARY , I 100 percent agree, I just feel that laws in place most people would use to argue, but dont understand them. This is why I feel we need Immigration reform because the laws in place are necessarily the right ones. Lets not forget at some point in time there was laws against african americans and I hope you wouldnt be one to say they were right simply because "the government says so, and rules are rules". Now to the point of me "glorifying" illegals , im not. I glorify hard working people who do anything to create a better life, these are the people who I support. Also, ofcouse I am biased, why should my mother and brother be risking deportation when they have been part of this country for 20 plus years, no record, payed taxes, hard working. If your answer continue to be "the law is the law", then we can just agree to disagree. Thanks for reading tho.

@likethematrix I def. can see what your sayin and i agree for the most part. I think there is a huge assumption there that those examples happen across the U.S. in the , yeah it is not so right because it forces some out of jobs. My problem is that this goes beyond immigration, We have all of these companies outsourcing to other countries which is really take away from american employment. Now with the issue of illegals doing so, I think it can all be removed by allowing them to work legally because then they are required to do so and not under the table. This way the playing field is more even and not so much at a disadvantage. For the most part, the way I see it, i am not discouraged by fair competition , it adds to worker productivity imo.

I agree with some saying it is racially motivated . We should be seeking solutions to the "problems", and not so much on steotyping and blaming a whole group.

 

[ryda421]

without immigrants, there would be no US of A

 

[ryda421]

without immigrants, there would be no US of A

 

[criminalminded]

Originally Posted by Ryda421

without immigrants, there would be no US of A

Without illegal immigrants we would have a better US of A

 

[criminalminded]

Originally Posted by Ryda421

without immigrants, there would be no US of A

Without illegal immigrants we would have a better US of A

 

[Nike Jordan]

The fact that people think 3% of the population is ruining America is high comedy.

 

[Nike Jordan]

The fact that people think 3% of the population is ruining America is high comedy.

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by likethematrix

you guys are missing the entire point so ima make it brief.

Illegal immigrants should not be kicked out just for being illegal.
they should be kicked out due to the negative effect on the economy that used to have structure.

alot of you in support of illegal immigrants keep spewing this nonsense about "they do jobs americans dont want to do."
that is only half true.
the full quote should be: "They do jobs americans wont do FOR THE PRICE THAT AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT WILL DO IT FOR."

emphasis on "Price"

lets use mexico and mexican immigrants as the model.

one US Dollar is equal to how man Pesos?

if youre coming from a place where you had no money and need money just to eat for the night to survive, you will accept ANY payment for a job offered.
Humans, by nature, seek to gain the most for the least amount.
so they turn from licensed, bonded, and american Landscapers/painter/field hands/gardeners/seamstresses/car washers.
they charge way too much. they have overhead costs, health care plans, corporate taxes, workers insurance.
it would be impossible for them to charge less than their bottom line costs.
so they charge $50+ to mow your lawn, trim your hedges, and take care of your plants.

BUT............

there are these guys who will do it for $20.
they have ok tools at best, just a regular truck, no real base of operations, pretty much nothing but themselves and their truck and tools.


which one do you pick america?
$20 bucks.

now Tim down the street heard that you only pay $20 dollars. He's gotta get that deal too. the 30 he saves can go towards his vintage car he's restoring.
Tim is good friends with bill and jeff and tom and jerry.
they all gotta get this deal too.

america the land of the free landscaping has just lost an entire block and $300 monthly. he cannot make it any more. he's gotta fire a few friends.
he's gotta get rid of the store front.

We dont really speak english too well nor care to landscaping just made $100 between 3 people. time for tecate.


NOW MULTIPLY THIS BY 3/5 NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE US.
and change landscaping to picking fruit or washing cars....


you cant be this blind to ignore these facts.

THESE ARE UNDENIABLE FACTS.

and how can you blindly believe MSNBC's facts and figures and not take mines into account?
cause they are on tv?

sorry brah.. i stopped reading after "Illegal immigrants should not be kicked out just for being illegal." your whole post doesnt mean anything after you said that

then why are they called illegal immigrants? because they are in the country when they arent even allowed. whats the point of having a system when it's not even used... i think you should go to bed