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Originally Posted by RFX45
The ES isn't even Lexus' entry level car, it's the IS.
But seriously, people actually laugh at what people drive?
I guess it is understandable if it is an 86 Civic with a loud exhaust with sticker graphics and 3 foot tall spoilers but a stock car... really?
Originally Posted by Lrrr
i've never laughed at what they drive...i laugh at the reason they buy it..they pay the extra $8k to $10k just to say they have a Lexus..A car is a major purchase decision...i would say a MAJORITY of ES owners have researched the car that they just plunged $14,000+ into/financed and most know its a Camry...it just seems as if people are paying that extra $8k to $10k just to have that shiny L on their cars
Originally Posted by nawlinsjunkie
many NTers dont even own the cars they boast about when they make those Car A>Car B threads (no shots at KayCurrency), and most NTers drive ordinary @#$ cars from what I've seen in the post your car threads (no hate, i drive an 03 accord lol). as a 20 year old id be grateful as hell to be riding in an ES
Originally Posted by ksteezy
what you pushing OP?...
Originally Posted by ninjahood
lexus was only created in da US to fool americans they was getting anything other then a toyota, same wit acura & hondaOriginally Posted by Put em up
That's what im saying, when I was growing up Lexus was Elite in the car industry.
Now people laughing at Lexus?
[table][tr][th=""] [h2]Specifications Comparison
Lexus ES vs. Toyota Camry[/h2] [/th] [/tr][tr][th=""]Model Year[/th] [td]2010[/td] [td]2010[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Model[/th] [td]ES[/td] [td]Camry[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Body[/th] [td]4dr Sedan[/td] [td]4dr Sedan[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Wheelbase[/th] [td]109.3[/td] [td]109.3[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Length[/th] [td]191.1[/td] [td]189.2[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Width[/th] [td]71.1[/td] [td]71.7[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Height[/th] [td]57.1[/td] [td]57.9[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Curb Weight[/th] [td]3580[/td] [td]3461[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Fuel Capacity[/th] [td]18.5[/td] [td]18.5[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]R1 Headroom[/th] [td]37.4[/td] [td]38.8[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]R1 Shoulder Room[/th] [td]57.3[/td] [td]57.8[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]R1 Hip Room[/th] [td]55.9[/td] [td]54.6[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]R1 Legroom[/th] [td]42.2[/td] [td]41.7[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]R2 Headroom[/th] [td]36.8[/td] [td]37.8[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]R2 Shoulder Room[/th] [td]56.3[/td] [td]56.9[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]R2 Hip Room[/th] [td]52.8[/td] [td]53.9[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]R2 Legroom[/th] [td]35.9[/td] [td]38.3[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Cargo Volume[/th] [td]14.7[/td] [td]15.0[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Top of Page ^[/td] [/tr][/table] [table][tr][th=""] [h2]Price Comparison (MSRP) : Lexus ES vs. Toyota Camry[/h2]The sticker prices, before adjusting for remaining feature differences. Usually these are the numbers you will see on the window stickers.
Models in short supply often sell at or even above these prices. [/th] [/tr][tr][th=""]Model Year[/th] [td]2010[/td] [td]2010[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Model[/th] [td]ES[/td] [td]Camry[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Trim[/th] [td]350[/td] [td]SE V6[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Body[/th] [td]4dr Sedan[/td] [td]4dr Sedan[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Base Price[/th] [td]$34,800[/td] [td]$25,840[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Bluetooth and USB Package[/th] [td] [/td] [td]$420[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Convenience Package[/th] [td] [/td] [td]$275[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Floormats[/th] [td] [/td] [td]$199[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Heated front seats[/th] [td]$640[/td] [td] [/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]JBL 440W 8 speakers[/th] [td] [/td] [td]$590[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Keyless access and ignition[/th] [td] [/td] [td]$450[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Leather Package[/th] [td] [/td] [td]$1,680[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Navigation System / Mark Levinson Pkg.[/th] [td]$4,065[/td] [td] [/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Navigation system[/th] [td] [/td] [td]$1,810[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Rear spoiler[/th] [td]$299[/td] [td]$200[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Satellite radio[/th] [td]$486[/td] [td] [/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Sunroof[/th] [td] [/td] [td]$890[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Total options[/th] [td]$5,490[/td] [td]$6,514[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Destination[/th] [td]$875[/td] [td]$750[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Gas Tax / Credit[/th] [td]$0[/td] [td]$0[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Net Price[/th] [td]$41,165[/td] [td]$33,104[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Lowest Net Price[/th] [td]Camry SE V6 4dr Sedan[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Difference[/th] [td]$8,061[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Top of Page ^[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""] [h2]Invoice Comparison : Lexus ES vs. Toyota Camry[/h2]Dealer cost before holdback, bonuses, advertising fees, and such. Also before adjusting for remaining feature differences.
Models that are not in demand can often be purchased at or a few hundred dollars over these prices. [/th] [/tr][tr][th=""]Model Year[/th] [td]2010[/td] [td]2010[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Model[/th] [td]ES[/td] [td]Camry[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Trim[/th] [td]350[/td] [td]SE V6[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Body[/th] [td]4dr Sedan[/td] [td]4dr Sedan[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Base Invoice[/th] [td]$31,553[/td] [td]$23,254[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Bluetooth and USB Package[/th] [td] [/td] [td]$315[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Convenience Package[/th] [td] [/td] [td]$220[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Floormats[/th] [td] [/td] [td]$126[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Heated front seats[/th] [td]$512[/td] [td] [/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]JBL 440W 8 speakers[/th] [td] [/td] [td]$443[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Keyless access and ignition[/th] [td] [/td] [td]$360[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Leather Package[/th] [td] [/td] [td]$1,344[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Navigation System / Mark Levinson Pkg.[/th] [td]$3,320[/td] [td] [/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Navigation system[/th] [td] [/td] [td]$1,525[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Rear spoiler[/th] [td]$199[/td] [td]$160[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Satellite radio[/th] [td]$389[/td] [td] [/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Sunroof[/th] [td] [/td] [td]$712[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Total options[/th] [td]$4,420[/td] [td]$5,205[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Destination[/th] [td]$875[/td] [td]$750[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Gas Tax / Credit[/th] [td]$0[/td] [td]$0[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Net Invoice[/th] [td]$36,848[/td] [td]$29,209[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Lowest Net Invoice[/th] [td]Camry SE V6 4dr Sedan[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Difference[/th] [td]$7,639[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Top of Page ^[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""] [h2]Feature Comparison : Lexus ES vs. Toyota Camry[/h2]
Adjusts for unshared features -- values in parentheses
These are features on some but not all of the displayed trim lines.
In parentheses are the values assigned to these features by TrueDelta or, optionally, by you. [/th] [/tr][tr][th=""]Model Year[/th] [td]2010[/td] [td]2010[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Model[/th] [td]ES[/td] [td]Camry[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Trim[/th] [td]350[/td] [td]SE V6[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Body[/th] [td]4dr Sedan[/td] [td]4dr Sedan[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Engine[/th] [td]272hp V6[/td] [td]268hp V6[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Transmission[/th] [td]T6 ($1100)[/td] [td]T6 ($1100)[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Drivetrain[/th] [td]FWD ($0)[/td] [td]FWD ($0)[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]EPA Fuel Economy (City / Highway)[/th] [td]19 / 27[/td] [td]19 / 28[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Tires (rear if not equal)[/th] [td]215/55-17[/td] [td]215/55-17[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Audio (watts, speakers)[/th] [td]300, 14[/td] [td]440, 8[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Accessories[/th] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Remote window/roof operation ($50)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Tilt/telescoping steering wheel, manual ($250)[/th] [td]Not incl.[/td] [td]Standard[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Tilt/telescoping steering wheel, power ($350)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Brakes, Airbags, and Other Safety[/th] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]911 assist ($0)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Front seat active head restraints ($50)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Knee bag, passenger ($100)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Rear side airbags ($300)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Cargo Management[/th] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Cargo mat ($40)[/th] [td]Not incl.[/td] [td]Package[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Climate Control and Infotainment[/th] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Automatic air recirculation ($100)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Automatic climate control, front ($200)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Bluetooth audio streaming ($100)[/th] [td]Not incl.[/td] [td]Package[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Dual-zone climate control ($125)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]DVD-compatible player ($0)[/th] [td]Package[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]iPod integration ($150)[/th] [td]Not incl.[/td] [td]Package[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Rain-sensing wipers ($175)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Rear air vents ($100)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Surround sound ($100)[/th] [td]Package[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Travel information system ($300)[/th] [td]Package[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Variable intermittent wipers ($75)[/th] [td]Not incl.[/td] [td]Standard[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Water-repellent front-door glass ($15)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Exterior[/th] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Body kit ($350)[/th] [td]Not incl.[/td] [td]Standard[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Bodyside moldings ($75)[/th] [td]Not incl.[/td] [td]Standard[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Instruments, Lights, and Mirrors[/th] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Interior ambient lighting ($150)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Mirror tilt-down in reverse ($25)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Trip computer ($150)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Seats and Interior Trim[/th] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Cooled first row ($300)[/th] [td]Package[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Leather door panel trim ($250)[/th] [td]Not incl.[/td] [td]Package[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Memory system, driver first row ($200)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Metal pedals ($75)[/th] [td]Not incl.[/td] [td]Standard[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Power height, passenger first row ($100)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Power lumbar, passenger first row ($100)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Power thigh support, driver first row ($100)[/th] [td]Package[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Power tilt, passenger first row ($100)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Wood trim ($300)[/th] [td]Standard[/td] [td]Not incl.[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Suspension, Wheels, and Tires[/th] [td] [/td] [td] [/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Sport suspension (upgrade) ($0)[/th] [td]Not incl.[/td] [td]Standard[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Total Feature Adjustments The total value of the features listed for a trim, after subtracting the lowest total.[/th] [td]-$2,125[/td] [td]-$0[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Top of Page ^[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""] [h2]TrueDelta Value Comparison : Lexus ES vs. Toyota Camry[/h2]These are the sticker and invoice prices after adjusting for feature differences, to provide an "apples to apples" comparison. [/th] [/tr][tr][th=""]Model Year[/th] [td]2010[/td] [td]2010[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Model[/th] [td]ES[/td] [td]Camry[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Trim[/th] [td]350[/td] [td]SE V6[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Body[/th] [td]4dr Sedan[/td] [td]4dr Sedan[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Net Price (from Price table)[/th] [td]$41,165[/td] [td]$33,104[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Adjustment (from Feature table)[/th] [td]-$2,125[/td] [td]-$0[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Feature-adjusted Net Price[/th] [td]$39,040[/td] [td]$33,104[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Net Invoice (from Invoice table)[/th] [td]$36,848[/td] [td]$29,209[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Invoice AdjustmentThe price adjustment multiplied by the ratio between the invoice and sticker prices.[/th] [td]-$1,902[/td] [td]-$0[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Feature-adjusted Net Invoice[/th] [td]$34,946[/td] [td]$29,209[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]Lowest Adjusted Price and Invoice[/th] [td]Camry SE V6 4dr Sedan[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]TrueDelta Price Difference[/th] [td]$5,936[/td] [/tr][tr][th=""]TrueDelta Invoice Difference[/th] [td]$5,737[/td] [/tr][/table]
overall a 6K difference.
not exactly breaking the bank there
Originally Posted by Apollo Greed
Laughing at people in Lexus' now? What part of the game is this
Correct. I'd rather spend my money on one of the higher-end models than throw down just enough to say I have a "Lexus","BMW", etc. I find that the higher-end models are of better quality and performance, and the designs are better. Some may not agree. These brandshave vehicles positioned at specific price points. It is no secret that cars like the C-Class and 3-series are put within reaching distance for those who wanta part of the brand but don't have the resources to step up to, say, the E-Class or 5-series, etc. Of course, there are those who buy the entries becausethey actually like them, which is totally fine and understandable.Originally Posted by trethousandgt
Originally Posted by Burns1923
Originally Posted by ThuG LyFe
Originally Posted by Burns1923
There's nothing wrong with either the ES or the Camry. Both are well established as well-made cars.
But let's not kid ourselves that they're barely related. Nearly everything but the aesthetics is the same.
Toyota has never designed the ES/Camry as separate models.
All this reminds me of a woman I used to work with. She had multiple ES's and was virtually convinced they were Rolls-Royces.
If people like ES's and Camry's, that's great. Just don't make them out to be anything they aren't.
The Camry is a basic midsize sedan. The ES is an entry-level luxury car. There's no shame in it. It is what it is.
the new ES doesn't even look like an entry level luxury sedan. although it's about the same price as a 3 series, i'd say it looks a lot more expensive than like a base model 328i. you can't really appreciate it until you sit in it. i wouldn't drive it though, it seems to be targeted to 30+ year olds.
I can't say I'm up on all the details of the current ES. If I'm correct, it remains the lowest-rung on the Lexus ladder. Just as the 3-series is to BMW and the C-Class is to M-B. For me personally, I'd rather position myself to get a higher-end Lexus, BMW, etc. than invest just enough money to "get into the brand." Not knocking owners of the lower-priced models, that's just my preference.
I don't doubt your take on the ES/328i comparison. BMW in 2009 is nothing like BMW of, say, 1995. In my mind, BMW has lost A LOT of sophistication and status in the last 10 years at least.
A real shame because I know first hand what it used to be way back when.
Ummm you would rather position yourself to get a higher bmw or Lexus than just getting into the brand? Well your next step is the GS at another 11grand without any options which is usually another 15 grand. And if you really want to step your game up you can go another 30k up and get an LS, keep in mind these are just the base prices and the entry level 3 can set u back up to 45k for the 335 motoradd in your mortgage, rent, phone bill, cable bills, heat electric, food, the insurance to pay for that car............ but wait thats right I'm in Niketalk world where everyone is making 150k+ there's no recession, and dudes pushing 1999 nissan altima's and throwback bmw's (that probably isn't even running or insured)
Of course, there are those who buy the entries because they actually like them, which is totally fine and understandable.
and therein lies the problem of pseudo snobs who think they know that the so called "real" reason is that they're ballin on abudget.
Originally Posted by ThuG LyFe
if i take your argument and say i'm gonna laugh at you for buying a 540i which is an overpriced 525i does that make sense? that's basically what you're saying right now, ridiculous.
diff body lines.Originally Posted by Supermanblue79
Identical, but I wouldn't spend $6K just to have an "L" on the grill.