US AUTOMAKERS ASKING FOR ADDITIONAL BAILOUT MONEY, thoughts?

[theone2401]

Originally Posted by JDB1523

Toyotaism FTW. theone knows what I'm talking about (I think).

Let them crumble. The banks are one thing but this is another, and the auto industry not too long ago got a bailout. Can't learn from your mistakes? That IS NOT the taxpayers' problem. How about some efficient %%+%*@# management and production?

Honestly for those interested in the production line or supply chain and even aspects of management, look up Toyotaism and their corporate framework.

Yes, I am. I am very aware of the kanban system and JIT inventory. Japanese people make everything they touch better they have been doing it eversince I can remember.

The UAW leadership is just as corrupt. They play ball too. Them and GM, Ford, etc. play on different teams but for the same league.

It's funny how UAW is not really vocal about outsourcing. They'll say something here and there but with outsourcing being as big a problem as it is you'd figure they'd be hollering every chance they ge. Especially NOW.
How many times do wee see the UAW leadership give press conferences regarding outsourcing a year?

Makes one wonder, huh?
Well they have free reign now because their spokesperson is now the president of the United States.

Damn unions started out a good thing and they are now just as corrupt asthe companies they were intended to check. What has the world come to.

 

[jdb1523]

^Thank god you mentioned the pain-in-the-@$! unions, I was about to edit my first post. You're exactly right though, there was a time when unions were anabsolute necessity, but they def. do more harm than good anymore.

 

[elgrenas]

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Thoughts? They can go belly up and rot before I'd give them a dime.

agreed with you lazyj10. but all these congress people are not doing it for the people working there. they are doing it for the unions. they have to get paid.

 

[prurientsole]

Originally Posted by theone2401

kanban system and JIT inventory

On a completely unrelated note, I haven't heard those terms since logistics classes in college.

But yeah...

Unions and religion are in the same boat as far as I'm concerned: great idea, piss-poor execution.

 

[iheartboost]

GM, Ford and Chrysler can learn a thing or two from Toyota, Honda and Nissan. The Japanese automakers have always been about fuel efficient vehicles for years,nearly 10 years. Toyota has always been ahead of the game, with Nissan and Honda following closely behind. Where is Ford, GM and Chrysler? No where to befound. Nowhere. The Japanese for years always cap off there high-powered cars, and they still do. The gentlemens agreement I believe, that no car can bemeasured more than 276hp and go over 120mph (some cars IE: R34 GT-R, didn't follow suit though). Even still, cars like the Evo, STi, RX7, Supra and so onwere very fuel efficient, only using 4 bangers or straight 6.

Out of everyone, I really think FORD should be the least for a bailout. They have had very very VERY fuel efficient cars in Europe for YEARS. Years ago whenFORD North America was asked about bring some of these cars over like the KA, Fiesta and so forth, they laugh and snickered. Saying "Americans don'twant these type of cars". Oh really? While cars like the Prius are selling like hotcakes, FORD continue to remake the v8 Mustang. Hell, even the v6version isn't ecco friendly.

What really has the big 3 out of touch, while not still accepting the fact that hybrids are the future and it's about fuel efficient cars, they decided itwas more about looks, going back to there roots and bring back classic looks with new style for the new year. What?! I seriously have no remorse for FORD.

These 3 automakers need to take Japanese or German engineering and corporate 101

 

[mjd77]

Not to mention the hyperinflation that is probably going to happen in the next couple of years because of the government throwing all this fake money around.We're screwed.

 

[jordanfiend85]

I'd bail em out but take their pension and idle worker amd healthcare liabilities off their books. Thats whats killing them. They lose roughly 2.5K per carmade, and their healthcare costs are about 10-15 times that of Toyota. I'd set up a fund for those retired, uninsured workers till they die. Dissolveunions because they are antiquated (sp), have them dissolve their U.S. models bring over there European models, and push them to make more fuell efficientSUV's anbd Trucks, the only thing they are good at.

 

[jdb1523]

A lot of you guys are stuck on WHAT these companies are making, and yes it does contribute to their atrocious balance sheets, but at the same time HOW they aremaking what they do is simply inefficient. Like I said last page, look up Toyotaism and Just In Time production methods, which Toyota's managers willattribute a lot, if not most, of their successes to.

 

[tylerdub]

Originally Posted by JordanFiend85

I'd bail em out but take their pension and idle worker amd healthcare liabilities off their books. Thats whats killing them. They lose roughly 2.5K per car made, and their healthcare costs are about 10-15 times that of Toyota. I'd set up a fund for those retired, uninsured workers till they die. Dissolve unions because they are antiquated (sp), have them dissolve their U.S. models bring over there European models, and push them to make more fuell efficient SUV's anbd Trucks, the only thing they are good at.

The government shouldnt and doesnt have the power to do any of that.

 

[jordanfiend85]

You can have all the logistical superiorities you want, but if nobody want

 

[youngcfromthad]

This hits home for me because a few members of my family have already been asked to take buyouts. 100K Plus a 25k car voucher and extending medical benefitsfor a while. Uncle sam is still going to take 35% off that 100k. Most people saying let them rot and go away, do you realize how many people will be out ofwork as well as already out of work. Shipping jobs across seas is where they went wrong at. The days of 28 dollar per hr jobs in the factory are gone. Crazything is my people all have MBA's and are in the white collar side and they took the cuts of bonuses and everything and they still have to make a decisionby next week. This is going to get 100% worse before it even gets 10% better.

 

[jordanfiend85]

Originally Posted by tylerdub

Originally Posted by JordanFiend85

I'd bail em out but take their pension and idle worker and healthcare liabilities off their books. Thats whats killing them. They lose roughly 2.5K per car made, and their healthcare costs are about 10-15 times that of Toyota. I'd set up a fund for those retired, uninsured workers till they die. Dissolve unions because they are antiquated (sp), have them dissolve their U.S. models bring over there European models, and push them to make more fuell efficient SUV's anbd Trucks, the only thing they are good at.

The government shouldnt and doesnt have the power to do any of that.

Oh really. I think they do whether they should or not is another thing.
If we're going to bail them out, then you can pretty much tell them to do whatever they hell they want. Regardless, changes have to be made if U.S.automakers are going to remain viable. GM pays workers 31/hour vs. Toyota 27.


This link explains some of the burdensome laborous costs GM deals with.
http://www.npr.org/news/specials/gmvstoyota/http://www.npr.org/news/specials/gmvstoyota/

 

[jordanfiend85]

Originally Posted by YoungCFromThaD

This hits home for me because a few members of my family have already been asked to take buyouts. 100K Plus a 25k car voucher and extending medical benefits for a while. Uncle sam is still going to take 35% off that 100k. Most people saying let them rot and go away, do you realize how many people will be out of work as well as already out of work. Shipping jobs across seas is where they went wrong at. The days of 28 dollar per hr jobs in the factory are gone. Crazy thing is my people all have MBA's and are in the white collar side and they took the cuts of bonuses and everything and they still have to make a decision by next week. This is going to get 100% worse before it even gets 10% better.

Thats where it went right. It's a global economy son, you either stay competitive or die.

 

[youngcfromthad]

Originally Posted by JordanFiend85

Originally Posted by YoungCFromThaD

This hits home for me because a few members of my family have already been asked to take buyouts. 100K Plus a 25k car voucher and extending medical benefits for a while. Uncle sam is still going to take 35% off that 100k. Most people saying let them rot and go away, do you realize how many people will be out of work as well as already out of work. Shipping jobs across seas is where they went wrong at. The days of 28 dollar per hr jobs in the factory are gone. Crazy thing is my people all have MBA's and are in the white collar side and they took the cuts of bonuses and everything and they still have to make a decision by next week. This is going to get 100% worse before it even gets 10% better.

Thats where it went right. It's a global economy son, you either stay competitive or die.

Shipping them across seas for 2 dollars per hour rather than the 35 here makes sense right, but the way they went about it has not worked out whatso ever. Chrysler was Daimler, then Ceburis (sp) now they are trying to merge, Long term planning is where they went wrong at. When they did go global theyshould have planned this out, but hard to say when your making money by the truckloads that you would be thinking about the economy going down in the future.