US AUTOMAKERS ASKING FOR ADDITIONAL BAILOUT MONEY, thoughts?

[send one]

Its not there fault that their cars are gas guzzling inefficient hunks of garbage....isn't that what everyone wanted a few years back, but now that gas is a grip everyone wants gas efficiency.
Well not everyone wanted those type of cars. And as quickly as that fad emerged it did a 180, and they should've prepared for that. ButI'm sure all those execs. a few years back patting themselves on the back and giving themselves huge bonuses when they were profiting off that. And nowthat consumers have gone in a different direction they want the govt.'s help?

 

[wawaweewa]

Give them money for this?????????????

Globalization has to be paid for somehow, right?

GM Opens $300 Million Russian Plant to Boost Sales (Update1)

By Paul Abelsky

Nov. 7 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp., the world's biggest carmaker, opened a $300 million factory in Russia as it looks to compensate for slumping sales in western Europe and North America.

The plant in the Shushary district on the outskirts of St. Petersburg will produce 70,000 Chevrolet Captiva sport-utility vehicles and the Opel Astra, with plans to manufacture the Chevrolet Cruze compact car next year.

``Our strategy is to become the leading manufacturer in Russia,'' Carl-Peter Forster, GM's chief for Europe, told reporters during the plant opening today. ``For us Russia is not an emerging market. Russia emerged long ago.''

General Motors Aims to Raise Stake in China Venture (Update1)

By Tian Ying and Winnie Zhu

Nov. 9 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp., the biggest overseas automaker in China, is in talks with a local partner to increase its stake in a venture that produces vans and light trucks under the Wuling brand.

The U.S. automaker is seeking to buy additional shares in SAIC-GM-Wuling Automobile Co., Hu Maoyuan, chairman of SAIC Motor Corp., said yesterday in an interview in Tianjin. SAIC is the majority shareholder of the venture with 50.1 percent, GM owns 34 percent and Liuzhou Wuling Motors Co. holds the rest.

GM is seeking to boost market share in the world's fastest- growing major economy, where the venture based in southern Guangxi province accounts for about half its local sales. GM said last week that it may not have enough cash to keep operating this year after reporting a $4.2 billion third-quarter operating loss.

[h1]Ford: China Car JV's new Nanjing plant begins operating[/h1]

By MarketWatch

Last update: 10:43 p.m. EDT Sept. 23, 2007

BEIJING (MarketWatch) -- Ford Motor Co. said Monday that its joint venture in China, Changan Ford Mazda Automobile Co., has begun operations at a new assembly plant to make small cars under the Ford and Mazda brands.

The US$510 million facility, based in Nanjing, eastern Jiangsu province, has an initial production capacity of 160,000 vehicles a year, the statement said.

Ford's passenger car-manufacturing capacity in China jumps to more than 410,000 units a year with the launch of the new plant, the statement said.

Changan Ford Mazda Automobile is 35%-owned by Ford, 50%-owned by China's Changan Automotive Group, and 15%-owned by Mazda Motor Corp. (7261.TO), which is an affiliate of Ford.

Ford to open new plant in Mexico

US giant Ford is to invest $3bn (£1.5bn) in a new car plant in Mexico, the biggest investment in the country's manufacturing sector.

The move is a blow to American car workers who had hoped the factory would be built in the United States.

Ford has lost more than $15bn (£7.5bn) over the past two years and says the new facility is crucial to its future.

Mexican President Felipe Calderon hailed the announcement as a "turning point" for his country.

The new factory, and other changes to Ford's Mexican operations, are likely to create an estimated 4,500 jobs in Mexico, where car workers earn substantially less than their American counterparts.

Mr Calderon made the announcement with Ford president Alan Mullaly at the presidential compound in Mexico City on Friday.

"We want Mexico to be an automotive country, one that is competitive and with the most advantages so that the worldwide automotive industry will establish itself here," Mr Calderon said.

Mr Mullaly said: "We are convinced the geographic location as well as Mexico's highly qualified labour force and economic stability make this decision the right one for our business."

Link



What would you call a person ( or a nation) paying for its own death?

Looks to me like they want Americans to pay for their overseas projects.

You're being played America.

 

[devildog1776]

So what they are telling me is that NO ONE can come up with a way to make energy effeicent cars WITHOUT bailout money ? What about the last ten yrs... What wastheir budgets for the previous yrs of "research" ? This bailout is soooooooooooo not needed... Whosoever approves of this bailout is a douche bag tothe 4th degree....

 

[theone2401]

Everyone keeps falling back on the same tired arguement
Just because the argument is tired doesnt make it any less right or irrelavent.

What is your point? Everything you are saying is going against everything is country is based upon. People wanting socialism and something for nothing istried. You cant have your cake and eat it too and the same is true for GM and Michigan. They raised the taxes to tax the hell out of GM and other states gaveincentives for them to move their factories there so companies DID. You reap what you sew. That argument never gets tired.

 

[iheartboost]

Originally Posted by Stringer Bell 32

These firms are a large part of our nation's economy and you guys want them to go belly up?

and we'll just continue to import all of our cars, send that money to overseas countries thus helping to strengthen their economy

American automakers didn't care about our economy a few years back, while the Japanese and Euro makers were clearly thinking ahead. So now we shouldforgive them? Now they want to make fuel efficient cars? Again LTTP. American automakers need a complete overhaul, garbage exterior and interior quality,nobody is checking for American cars except government run jobs.

 

[DownByLaw]

Stringer, you know you're my boy and all, but you are being stubborn to everything that has been provided in this thread. Nobody and I mean nobody shouldbe defending the big 3. These clowns have continued over a long stretch of time making terrible decisions. They play that whole America nostalgia card to gainsupport. I say $*%% them, let them file bankruptcy and let the restructuring begin.

 

[theone2401]

Originally Posted by IHeartBoost

Originally Posted by Stringer Bell 32

These firms are a large part of our nation's economy and you guys want them to go belly up?

and we'll just continue to import all of our cars, send that money to overseas countries thus helping to strengthen their economy

American automakers didn't care about our economy a few years back, while the Japanese and Euro makers were clearly thinking ahead. So now we should forgive them? Now they want to make fuel efficient cars? Again LTTP. American automakers need a complete overhaul, garbage exterior and interior quality, nobody is checking for American cars except government run jobs.

I hope they aint using our money to buy Chryslers

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by theone2401

Originally Posted by IHeartBoost

Originally Posted by Stringer Bell 32

These firms are a large part of our nation's economy and you guys want them to go belly up?

and we'll just continue to import all of our cars, send that money to overseas countries thus helping to strengthen their economy

American automakers didn't care about our economy a few years back, while the Japanese and Euro makers were clearly thinking ahead. So now we should forgive them? Now they want to make fuel efficient cars? Again LTTP. American automakers need a complete overhaul, garbage exterior and interior quality, nobody is checking for American cars except government run jobs.

I hope they aint using our money to buy Chryslers

They're going to use taxpayer money for this and more like it.

GM Opens $300 Million Russian Plant to Boost Sales (Update1)

By Paul Abelsky

Nov. 7 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp., the world's biggest carmaker, opened a $300 million factory in Russia as it looks to compensate for slumping sales in western Europe and North America.

The plant in the Shushary district on the outskirts of St. Petersburg will produce 70,000 Chevrolet Captiva sport-utility vehicles and the Opel Astra, with plans to manufacture the Chevrolet Cruze compact car next year.

``Our strategy is to become the leading manufacturer in Russia,'' Carl-Peter Forster, GM's chief for Europe, told reporters during the plant opening today. ``For us Russia is not an emerging market. Russia emerged long ago.''

General Motors Aims to Raise Stake in China Venture (Update1)

By Tian Ying and Winnie Zhu

Nov. 9 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp., the biggest overseas automaker in China, is in talks with a local partner to increase its stake in a venture that produces vans and light trucks under the Wuling brand.

The U.S. automaker is seeking to buy additional shares in SAIC-GM-Wuling Automobile Co., Hu Maoyuan, chairman of SAIC Motor Corp., said yesterday in an interview in Tianjin. SAIC is the majority shareholder of the venture with 50.1 percent, GM owns 34 percent and Liuzhou Wuling Motors Co. holds the rest.

GM is seeking to boost market share in the world's fastest- growing major economy, where the venture based in southern Guangxi province accounts for about half its local sales. GM said last week that it may not have enough cash to keep operating this year after reporting a $4.2 billion third-quarter operating loss.

[h1]Ford: China Car JV's new Nanjing plant begins operating[/h1]

By MarketWatch

Last update: 10:43 p.m. EDT Sept. 23, 2007

BEIJING (MarketWatch) -- Ford Motor Co. said Monday that its joint venture in China, Changan Ford Mazda Automobile Co., has begun operations at a new assembly plant to make small cars under the Ford and Mazda brands.

The US$510 million facility, based in Nanjing, eastern Jiangsu province, has an initial production capacity of 160,000 vehicles a year, the statement said.

Ford's passenger car-manufacturing capacity in China jumps to more than 410,000 units a year with the launch of the new plant, the statement said.

Changan Ford Mazda Automobile is 35%-owned by Ford, 50%-owned by China's Changan Automotive Group, and 15%-owned by Mazda Motor Corp. (7261.TO), which is an affiliate of Ford.

Ford to open new plant in Mexico

US giant Ford is to invest $3bn (£1.5bn) in a new car plant in Mexico, the biggest investment in the country's manufacturing sector.

The move is a blow to American car workers who had hoped the factory would be built in the United States.

Ford has lost more than $15bn (£7.5bn) over the past two years and says the new facility is crucial to its future.

Mexican President Felipe Calderon hailed the announcement as a "turning point" for his country.

The new factory, and other changes to Ford's Mexican operations, are likely to create an estimated 4,500 jobs in Mexico, where car workers earn substantially less than their American counterparts.

Mr Calderon made the announcement with Ford president Alan Mullaly at the presidential compound in Mexico City on Friday.

"We want Mexico to be an automotive country, one that is competitive and with the most advantages so that the worldwide automotive industry will establish itself here," Mr Calderon said.

Mr Mullaly said: "We are convinced the geographic location as well as Mexico's highly qualified labour force and economic stability make this decision the right one for our business."

Link

 

[craftsy21]

Are you serious? Its managements responsiblity to predict future trends and align their business with them. Why doesnt Toyota need a bail? (they are predominately a US company at this point) Because their managers are not incompetent like GM's. That was one of the most ignorant comments I ever read.

Agreed - the only people i feel bad for are the factory workers and such who will be out of jobs without a bailout, since they've just been doing theirjobs this whole time and couldn't help the fact that their employers were short-sighted greedy morons who would run the company into the ground.

They will be saved though, I'm pretty sure of that... they have too much pull in Washington.

It will prove once again that our capitalist society is anything BUT, and that the real power in this country lies with the corporations, not the government.

 

[theone2401]

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Are you serious? Its managements responsiblity to predict future trends and align their business with them. Why doesnt Toyota need a bail? (they are predominately a US company at this point) Because their managers are not incompetent like GM's. That was one of the most ignorant comments I ever read.

Agreed - the only people i feel bad for are the factory workers and such who will be out of jobs without a bailout, since they've just been doing their jobs this whole time and couldn't help the fact that their employers were short-sighted greedy morons who would run the company into the ground.

They will be saved though, I'm pretty sure of that... they have too much pull in Washington.

It will prove once again that our capitalist society is anything BUT, and that the real power in this country lies with the corporations, not the government.


Agree 100% they will be bailed out cause this country is run by companies that are "to big to fail" Now everyone knows why they got so big it surewasnt to become better businesses because it never works.

It sucks for those people but they have invaluable skills that when another company comes along and has a business model that is profitable, and not based onfinancing through GMAC so you can open 50,000 dealerships with not a damn drop of capital behind it borrowing off your manufacturing business, they will be thefirst to be hired and they will be in high demand. Car manufacturing in the US is not dead. If it was Toyota would have never come here. There is obviouslysome cost advantage that they are exploiting that another company will exploit when GM, Ford, and Chrysler are gone or restructured. Let it happen now, itsgoing to happen sooner or later no point in flushing more money down the toilet. This country is 10 trillion dollars in debt and increasing at an increasingrate.


But somehow GM is finding the money to open plants in Russia and China. OPEN YOUR EYES AMERICANS you make me sick.

 

[stringer bell 32]

Originally Posted by FIRST B0RN

Stringer, you know you're my boy and all, but you are being stubborn to everything that has been provided in this thread. Nobody and I mean nobody should be defending the big 3. These clowns have continued over a long stretch of time making terrible decisions. They play that whole America nostalgia card to gain support. I say $*%% them, let them file bankruptcy and let the restructuring begin.

How am I being stubborn? I'm willing to listen to anyone's opinion as long as they have a basis for that opinion.

but so far everyone is just falling back on the same "oh screw them, where is my bailout" mentality.

The funny thing is that I'm not even trying to defend the executives that made the decisions that put these companies in the shape they're in.

The people I'm trying to defend are like Craftsy said

the only people i feel bad for are the factory workers and such who will be out of jobs without a bailout, since they've just been doing their jobs this whole time and couldn't help the fact that their employers were short-sighted greedy morons who would run the company into the ground.

let the restructuring begin.



I'm in total agreement but they can't move forward with that without the bailout

 

[theone2401]

Originally Posted by Stringer Bell 32

Originally Posted by FIRST B0RN

Stringer, you know you're my boy and all, but you are being stubborn to everything that has been provided in this thread. Nobody and I mean nobody should be defending the big 3. These clowns have continued over a long stretch of time making terrible decisions. They play that whole America nostalgia card to gain support. I say $*%% them, let them file bankruptcy and let the restructuring begin.

How am I being stubborn? I'm willing to listen to anyone's opinion as long as they have a basis for that opinion.

but so far everyone is just falling back on the same "oh screw them, where is my bailout" mentality.

The funny thing is that I'm not even trying to defend the executives that made the decisions that put these companies in the shape they're in.

The people I'm trying to defend are like Craftsy said

the only people i feel bad for are the factory workers and such who will be out of jobs without a bailout, since they've just been doing their jobs this whole time and couldn't help the fact that their employers were short-sighted greedy morons who would run the company into the ground.

let the restructuring begin.



I'm in total agreement but they can't move forward with that without the bailout




You restructure in bankruptcy. This will allow them to get out of that ridiculous union contract and our of their tremendous debt. You seem to have the rightmentality just dont know enough about what their options are. If they file Chapter 11 they get out of all of their debt and their shackles from the UAW theysell off the parts of the business they dont want they shrink and they attempt to become profitable again. Getting a bailout doesnt address any of thoseissues.

Their credit is already screwed they have nothing to lose by going bankrupt and restructuring nothing except a bailout.

 

[sundoobie]

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Are you serious? Its managements responsiblity to predict future trends and align their business with them. Why doesnt Toyota need a bail? (they are predominately a US company at this point) Because their managers are not incompetent like GM's. That was one of the most ignorant comments I ever read.

Agreed - the only people i feel bad for are the factory workers and such who will be out of jobs without a bailout, since they've just been doing their jobs this whole time and couldn't help the fact that their employers were short-sighted greedy morons who would run the company into the ground.

They will be saved though, I'm pretty sure of that... they have too much pull in Washington.

It will prove once again that our capitalist society is anything BUT, and that the real power in this country lies with the corporations, not the government.

Factory workers is just a small part of the job force that will be lost. Corporate jobs everyone from secretaries, mail clerks, janitors, tosuppliers will all be affected. And guess what.. these people who lose their jobs will be applying for... DRUMROLL please.. UNEMPLOYMENT or WELFARE. GovtBailout in a different form.

And don't get me wrong these corporations are scum for not investing, researching properly, providing excess bonuses to CEOs, and allowing corrupt Unionsinfluence their decisions but nevertheless I think some form of help is needed from the Govt to avoid massive layoffs from the big 3 US Auto Makers.

Also Obama is for this bailout because these people, Labor Unions, helped Obama win the Presidency. Don't think those massive political contributionsdidn't come with a price.

 

[stringer bell 32]

They're already on the verge of bankruptcy

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by theone2401

Originally Posted by Stringer Bell 32

Originally Posted by FIRST B0RN

Stringer, you know you're my boy and all, but you are being stubborn to everything that has been provided in this thread. Nobody and I mean nobody should be defending the big 3. These clowns have continued over a long stretch of time making terrible decisions. They play that whole America nostalgia card to gain support. I say $*%% them, let them file bankruptcy and let the restructuring begin.

How am I being stubborn? I'm willing to listen to anyone's opinion as long as they have a basis for that opinion.

but so far everyone is just falling back on the same "oh screw them, where is my bailout" mentality.

The funny thing is that I'm not even trying to defend the executives that made the decisions that put these companies in the shape they're in.

The people I'm trying to defend are like Craftsy said

the only people i feel bad for are the factory workers and such who will be out of jobs without a bailout, since they've just been doing their jobs this whole time and couldn't help the fact that their employers were short-sighted greedy morons who would run the company into the ground.

let the restructuring begin.

I'm in total agreement but they can't move forward with that without the bailout




You restructure in bankruptcy. This will allow them to get out of that ridiculous union contract and our of their tremendous debt.

Their credit is already screwed they have nothing to lose by going bankrupt and restructuring nothing except a bailout.
They do have a lot to lose.
Bankruptcy will slow down their plans of expanding overseas while fleeing the US.

Why don't they go ask Russia or China for some loans.

 

[stringer bell 32]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Are you serious? Its managements responsiblity to predict future trends and align their business with them. Why doesnt Toyota need a bail? (they are predominately a US company at this point) Because their managers are not incompetent like GM's. That was one of the most ignorant comments I ever read.

Agreed - the only people i feel bad for are the factory workers and such who will be out of jobs without a bailout, since they've just been doing their jobs this whole time and couldn't help the fact that their employers were short-sighted greedy morons who would run the company into the ground.

They will be saved though, I'm pretty sure of that... they have too much pull in Washington.

It will prove once again that our capitalist society is anything BUT, and that the real power in this country lies with the corporations, not the government.

Factory workers is just a small part of the job force that will be lost. Corporate jobs everyone from secretaries, mail clerks, janitors, to suppliers will all be affected. And guess what.. these people who lose their jobs will be applying for... DRUMROLL please.. UNEMPLOYMENT or WELFARE. Govt Bailout in a different form.

And don't get me wrong these corporations are scum for not investing, researching properly, providing excess bonuses to CEOs, and allowing corrupt Unions influence their decisions but nevertheless I think some form of help is needed from the Govt to avoid massive layoffs from the big 3 US Auto Makers.

Also Obama is for this bailout because these people, Labor Unions, helped Obama win the Presidency. Don't think those massive political contributions didn't come with a price.


Thank you

Also Obama is for this bailout.



NT's golden boy is on my side. Great minds think alike you know

 

[theone2401]

Originally Posted by Stringer Bell 32

They're already on the verge of bankruptcy

But you have to go through the court process in order to recieve the benefits of going bankrupt. The only bailout I would support if the bailout was to helpthem through a bankruptcy because that is what is best for the company. They are refusing to go bankrupt and their argument is that "if we go bankruptpeople will not buy cars from us anymore because cars are not the same as taking a plane ride (referecing airline bankruptcies that turned out wonderful forthe companies).

So what it comes down to because they are scared of the unknown we should pay for it. Nah man. nah.

They do have a lot to lose.
Bankruptcy will slow down their plans of expanding overseas while fleeing the US.

Why don't they go ask Russia or China for some loans.
Oh Snaps

And the reason they are fleeing the US, Michigan in particular is because they cannot make money here and they are getting taxed up the wazoo in Michigan. Butwhat about those 2.5 million jobs that would be lost. How did they come to that number? a research group who is funded by the car companies did the research. Idunno why I try to talk to Nters its like talking to bricks.

but nevertheless I think some form of help is needed from the Govt to avoid massive layoffs from the big 3 US Auto Makers.
There is going to be layoffs regardless. The company is to big and it has to be contracted. There is so much overcapacity in the car industry itdoesnt matter how much money you give them there is going to be lay offs. There is no way GM, Ford, and Chrysler can stay in their current form in thisrecession. Why doesnt the UAW give them a break? Why doesnt the state of Michigan give them a tax break? Why are they overpaying their janitorsand secretaries? Why are they moving overseas and making factories in China, Russia, and Mexico? Why are you guys ignoring these important facts?

WHY?

 

[mateen cleaves]

Originally Posted by theone2401

Originally Posted by Mateen Cleaves

hopefully cars go on sale for dirt cheap

they already are. Have you been to a used car lot lately? And have you seen all of the cash back offers they are offering? good lord if I had some dough I would be rolling in my CTS asap. They giving like 6'gs just for you to buy a car from them. Thats why they need a bailout so they can keep paying people to buy their %$%+.

Its not there fault that their cars are gas guzzling inefficient hunks of garbage....isn't that what everyone wanted a few years back, but now that gas is a grip everyone wants gas efficiency.

Are you serious? Its managements responsiblity to predict future trends and align their business with them. Why doesnt Toyota need a bail? (they are predominately a US company at this point) Because their managers are not incompetent like GM's. That was one of the most ignorant comments I ever read.

they recently had brand new 08 300c SRT8's for 25 grand but the only catch was that you had to have perfect credit to buy one. sucks because iwould have bought one in a heartbeat.

 

[throwedindagame]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Also on Wednesday, the Center for Automotive Research published a report estimating that about 2.5 million jobs across the economy would disappear in the first year if the U.S. auto industry shrinks by 50 percent.

Only 239,000 of those job losses would be at the Detroit Three - the remainder would be at parts suppliers and related industries, the Ann Arbor-based center said.

I find it funny that people do not want the Govt to bail out US companies like you guys know where your tax money goes to anyways. Yes lets not bail out the US auto industry that provides jobs to Americans but lets continue spending 10 billion a month in Iraq or provide 17 billion to NASA so we can explore Mars.

NASA provides thousands of jobs to civil servants and contract workers such as me

. You can't go a day in your life without being impacted by somethingfrom NASA. Even the street you drive on is a result of new concrete materials used to construct launch pads/facilities.

NASA provides jobs as well.

 

[lazyj10]

Capitalism died a long time (as we knew it, or were taught) and this is just more reinforcement.

It'll be interesting to read in 10 years what the text book version is altered to read.

 

[mjd77]

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Originally Posted by Stringer Bell 32

Originally Posted by SEND ONE

These firms are a large part of our nation's economy and you guys want them to belly up?

It's not about wanting them to go under, but you do reap what you sow. Why should we pay to bail out corporations who could've avoided getting into this mess to begin with.

but thats what everyone in this thread has been saying

How can GM be reaping what they sow?

Its not there fault that their cars are gas guzzling inefficient hunks of garbage....isn't that what everyone wanted a few years back, but now that gas is a grip everyone wants gas efficiency.

Its not their fault???? It's not like we never had an Oil Crisis...its not like awareness was never brought to the forefront. They opted to avoid looking at the future and being comparable to the efficiency the Japanese instilled into the marketplace and go for cheap profits based on "consumer" wants. Now look where that brought them. Surely Toyota sales have been down, but they look like they'll survive.



Obviously Toyota, Honda, and Mazda's sales are also way down but that is just a side effect of the bad economic climate in general. They will survivebecause they still make a product that many people want, GM does not. They put their profits into R & D into new stuff for a changing marketplace, GM didnot.

 

[theone2401]

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Capitalism died a long time (as we knew it, or were taught) and this is just more reinforcement.

It'll be interesting to read in 10 years what the text book version is altered to read.

Dead and stinking. And everyone is trying to get their life boat before the ship sinks and you have the damn common man giveing up their lifeboatsfor these suckers and dont even realize they aint getting off the boat. Its sad to me. People feel sorry for the workers. I feel sorry for the people who dontrealize they are being hoodwinked. In fact they have peoples head spinning so fast they are lining up and throwing their money at them

 

[lazyj10]

theone2401 sounding like jadakiss up there...lol

 

[jdb1523]

Toyotaism FTW. theone knows what I'm talking about (I think).

Let them crumble. The banks are one thing but this is another, and the auto industry not too long ago got a bailout. Can't learn from your mistakes? ThatIS NOT the taxpayers' problem. How about some efficient %%+%*@# management and production?

Honestly for those interested in the production line or supply chain and even aspects of management, look up Toyotaism and their corporate framework.

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by theone2401

There is going to be layoffs regardless. The company is to big and it has to be contracted. There is so much overcapacity in the car industry it doesnt matter how much money you give them there is going to be lay offs. There is no way GM, Ford, and Chrysler can stay in their current form in this recession. Why doesnt the UAW give them a break? Why doesnt the state of Michigan give them a tax break? Why are they overpaying their janitors and secretaries? Why are they moving overseas and making factories in China, Russia, and Mexico? Why are you guys ignoring these important facts?

WHY?

The UAW leadership is just as corrupt. They play ball too. Them and GM, Ford, etc. play on different teams but for the same league.

It's funny how UAW is not really vocal about outsourcing. They'll say something here and there but with outsourcing being as big a problem as it isyou'd figure they'd be hollering every chance they ge. Especially NOW.
How many times do wee see the UAW leadership give press conferences regarding outsourcing a year?
Press conferences from Paris Hilton and Britney Spears but not from the UAW. Hmmmmm.

Makes one wonder, huh?