R.I.P Trayvon

[Comparison Ford]

The next time a woman puts her hands on her husband who's bigger than her, boom stand your ground and kill her

And yet this ******** happens.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/justice/florida-stand-ground-sentencing

This was addressed already.  It's misleading and people are still running with it. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00david00  


http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...d-says-it-was-her-violent-nature-led-shooting


quote from someone else:


"She did not fire a warning shot. She went to the house where her ex husband was, got into a argument with him, went back out to her car, retrieved the firearm, fired at him while the children were in the same room, and then claimed it was a "warning shot."

She was offered 3 years but rejected it and went for the trial, where mandatory sentencing guidelines hosed her."


misleading

Misleading? So a woman going back into her house to get her keys so that she can leave while her husband is trying to kill her, isn't given the right to protect herself, but a man who stalks and kills a 17 year old boy walking down the street legally is?


I like this quote in the comments section:



"Apparently, in Florida, it's a crime to shoot a gun, but only if you miss."

Never mentioned anything about the Trayvon Martin case, but how do you know which side of the story is true?

 

[jchambers]

.

 

[awm412]

This reminds me of the football player River Banks. He was accused of rape and after 5 yrs, he was freed on DNA evidence. He took the plea bargain cuz his public defender advise him to do it. And this is what happens, people are advise. They take the plea bargain and get lock up without testing the other side to prove it.
If u didn't do it u got nothing to worry about.

Sadly, sometimes it is definitely better to take the plea bargain.  Just because someone is innocent, it does not mean that they have the requisite evidence to support their case.  The prosecution may have decent evidence against someone, even if they are innocent, and if it looks like they don't have a good chance, they may take the plea bargain.  It's a cost-benefit decision based on someone's life/future.  It must be a very difficult decision to make.  You never know what a jury is going to decide.

 

[jchambers]

.

 

[kix4kix]

How was race involved in the actual events that took place though? I'm not talking about assumptions either.

As much as everyone believes it was racially motivated, there is no concrete evidence.

Not saying it's wrong to make these assumptions, but nothing he said or did that night (that we know for sure) was motivated by prejudice. The ONLY evidence of prejudice that we can put our finger on is the creepy crack*r comment made by TM.

The rash of break ins in the neighborhood done by supposedly "black males" didn't effect his state of mind at the time? Lets be real.

 

[jchambers]

.

 

[keko jones]

Was Zimmerman GUILTY beyond reasonable doubt of MURDERING TM?

NO!

I was clouded by all the comments and media attention this case has/had.

However, after hearing the 9/11 calls - IMHO this had nothing to do with RACE and I too if in a jury probably would of have sided with Zimmerman giving all the presented FACTS!

The problem here is that we only had one side of the story and it was Zimmerman, so we will never know.

I would say this, no matter who died that night the person that did the killing IMHO would of have had a valid reason to why.

If it was the other way around TM could of have claimed the same law and giving a scenario of being followed by an unknown man in his neighborhood he thought his life was in danger - yes I could see why he acted that way. And no this is not a point that I can use against my initial statement. 

 

[kix4kix]

You are assuming something about that man's mindset. There is no foundation for that.

So he didn't approach him in regard to the rash of crime in the area? IS that a non-issue? He referenced these "**** Punks. If he isn't referring to crime in the neighborhood, is he referring to all teenagers? All people with hoodies? Lets be real. Of course I am making assumptions on his mindset, am I Zimmerman? No, but that doesn't stop the fact that our legal system is based on assuming mindset.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea

 

[keko jones]

You are assuming something about that man's mindset. There is no foundation for that.

Agree and I never heard him saying that all the breakins were done by black individuals either #factsonly

 

[Mr.Guy]

I'm seeing a lot of questions from MOSTLY right-wing Whites asserting that there is no outrage when it comes to blk on blk crime. Welp, first and foremost within the blk community there is outrage YOU may not know about it because you don't care to know, which is why the only time you talk about it is when you're trying to argue a weak/racist point. Secondly, we live in a society where blk bodies are not valued and this has been the case since slavery up until the present just look at the numbers. I see no diff between a blk being lynched and a blk being shot w/o justice, for murder is murder. Last, don't present blk on blk crime as grave point in your argumentation when in fact you could really care less about blks (your credibility is suspect). Also most crime is intra-racial which means whites kill whites all the time too, remember, spatially speaking we're still a racially segregated society. See, arguing within that line of reasoning simply reaffirms the fact that NOBODY is really concerned about the welfare of blks except blks. When you have to use that line for the sake of an argument it becomes clear where you stand. Blk families mainly blk women worry constantly about the protection of their blk young/adult men. They understand the extent to which they're OPEN TARGETS. They can be hunted like that of an animal w/ impunity! This discussion has been happening since slavery, on how not to look, walk, talk or act in the presence of insecure folk. So when we talk abt blk victims and homicide LET's NOT LIMIT it to blk on blk crime that's an incomplete analysis. Anywho, blacks  BEEN USED to subjective citizenship so this train of thought is not surprising. People  understand that you believe religiously that blacks  are atavistic and unworthy of protection in "your" country that "you" built. Ha!

 

[keko jones]

So he didn't approach him in regard to the rash of crime in the area? IS that a non-issue? He referenced these "**** Punks. If he isn't referring to crime in the neighborhood, is he referring to all teenagers? All people with hoodies? Lets be real.

Why is the race being an issue here? He didn't even bring it up until asked! He gave a description of someone suspicious period.

Young (late teens) - walking looking at houses - with a hoodie - in the rain - now he is looking at me - now he is running.

Come on - if a cop was there - a cop would of have done the same ****!

 

[kix4kix]

Agree and I never heard him saying that all the breakins were done by black individuals either #factsonly

You never heard him say it, and him knowing are two different things. Kinda like how he SAID he didn't know about the stand your ground law, only he did.

 

[heliumclinton]

This was addressed already.  It's misleading and people are still running with it. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00david00 /img/forum/go_quote.gif


http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...d-says-it-was-her-violent-nature-led-shooting


quote from someone else:


"She did not fire a warning shot. She went to the house where her ex husband was, got into a argument with him, went back out to her car, retrieved the firearm, fired at him while the children were in the same room, and then claimed it was a "warning shot."

She was offered 3 years but rejected it and went for the trial, where mandatory sentencing guidelines hosed her."


misleading

nothing is misleading, a woman that fired a shot that didn't kill nor injure anyone got more time than a shot that killed someone

 

[kix4kix]

Why is the race being an issue here? He didn't even bring it up until asked! He gave a description of someone suspicious period.

Young (late teens) - walking looking at houses - with a hoodie - in the rain - now he is looking at me - now he is running.

Come on - if a cop was there - a cop would of have done the same ****!

So your'e saying a cop would have shot and killed a black kid? Big shocker.

 

[shoelyesses]

If trayvon had been killed and there was no suspect in custody this probably wouldn't have made news. If they find every black shooter in chicago who kills a black person and is brought to trial, they would probably be found guilty and case would be closed and no one would question the decision. Why dont evevry black killer now claim stand your ground and see how it works out for them?

that doesn't even make sense because of the nature and factors surround this particular murder versus all murders in general. Some ppl get murdered because of a robbery, some ppl get murdered drive bys, domestic violence disputes...etc a litany of different reasons and causes and affects.

How many of the murders in Chicago involve someone doing a neighborhood watch, saw someone that looks suspicious, went out against 911 dispatchers advice...get into a altercation, believe their lives are in danger and shoot the assailant?

To compare that to Chicago, in which many of the murders are robberies and gang affiliated murders...all to which the shooter/murdered went out with the intentions of killing a person. Makes no sense...and is a horrible example. Like how are you planning and plotting to do a drive by on someone of a rival gang and going to say stay your ground? How or why would they even try to use, oh I was trying to defend and felt my life was in imminent danger, if you out with a ski mask on trying to rob a liquor store?

I mean how does that even make sense? Now I could see ppl who get into domestic disputes, ppl who suspect or see ppl who are not the typical ppl in their neighborhood outside, Or are in areas places that they aren't accustom to shooting a person/murdering them and saying oh "stand my ground" or etc...

But its utterly ridiculous and stupid to think...you gonna have jack boys/robbers/dope dealers/ hit men hell assassin's...who will actively go out with the intention of murder...thinking oh because of the trayvon martin case I know I can shoot up these ppl in the bank and get away with. 

Whats more likely is the soccer mom who gets off late, getting the kids and groceries etc... in the house alone and its dark/rainy...and some random kid walks past their house, or comes up to ask them something as innocent as can I use the phone, could you tell me where this address is and next thing you know she shoots the person.

Or a guy out walking his dog/taking a jog etc...see a seething looking character, who looks lost or unfamiliar and then next thing you know they end up shooting/killing them.

I see examples like that occurring and ppl using and being acquitted with the "stand your ground" defense... more then murders, dealers, and killers.

 

[Mr.Guy]

http://thegrio.com/2012/11/20/71-ye...aughter-jury-rejects-stand-your-ground-claim/
 

 

[keko jones]

You never heard him say it, and him knowing are two different things. Kinda like how he SAID he didn't know about the stand your ground law, only he did.

Problem here is, that if he didn't say, I, nor you, nor anyone can say he thought it!

I rather be tried by evidence rather than presumptions. and is a lot better than being innocent and just because the presumption is that you did it, being called guilty.

Thats why we have so many innocents people in jail, because people think to themselves it must of have been him instead of listening to the evidence!

 

[jecca650]

this dude kept it 100 and makes some excellent points. prosecutors failed trayvon smfh.

 

[jchambers]

.

 

[keko jones]

this dude kept it 100 and makes some excellent points. prosecutors failed trayvon smfh.

Was waiting for this video to come up.

As a juror, what this guy gave me was more doubt to find Zimmerman guilty.

1. Maybe the reason Zimmerman didnt have any deep wounds  in his head, because he over exaggerated and even though to him he felt like it was being slammed maybe TM was just holding his *** down and that's why he only had minor lacerations to his head from ground scratches. Maybe that's why TM didnt have any bruises or anything on the autopsy.

2. TM was facing down with his hands in his chest. Very possible that after he got shot TM stop what he was doing actually got up and then felt to the ground. Not uncommon for someone to get shot and still continue to be alive for a few seconds/minutes/etc. So yes it is possible that he didnt actually drop and felt on top of Zimmerman.

3. 2-12 inches is the estimated distance from where he suffer the shot. That is consistent from TM being on top. Also is not uncommon for someone to get shot and not bleed initially - this aren't the movies where someone gets shot and you just see blood everywhere.

Come on - this guy aint no expert .. #factsonly

 

[shoelyesses]

I'm seeing a lot of questions from MOSTLY right-wing Whites asserting that there is no outrage when it comes to blk on blk crime. Welp, first and foremost within the blk community there is outrage YOU may not know about it because you don't care to know, which is why the only time you talk about it is when you're trying to argue a weak/racist point. Secondly, we live in a society where blk bodies are not valued and this has been the case since slavery up until the present just look at the numbers. I see no diff between a blk being lynched and a blk being shot w/o justice, for murder is murder. Last, don't present blk on blk crime as grave point in your argumentation when in fact you could really care less about blks (your credibility is suspect). Also most crime is intra-racial which means whites kill whites all the time too, remember, spatially speaking we're still a racially segregated society. See, arguing within that line of reasoning simply reaffirms the fact that NOBODY is really concerned about the welfare of blks except blks. When you have to use that line for the sake of an argument it becomes clear where you stand. Blk families mainly blk women worry constantly about the protection of their blk young/adult men. They understand the extent to which they're OPEN TARGETS. They can be hunted like that of an animal w/ impunity! This discussion has been happening since slavery, on how not to look, walk, talk or act in the presence of insecure folk. So when we talk abt blk victims and homicide LET's NOT LIMIT it to blk on blk crime that's an incomplete analysis. Anywho, blacks  BEEN USED to subjective citizenship so this train of thought is not surprising. People  understand that you believe religiously that blacks  are atavistic and unworthy of protection in "your" country that "you" built. Ha!

exactly and ppl always bring up Chicago....but half of them didn't pay attention, know about it, or even cared to know about it until it is convenient and be used as a justification...or as a means to dissolve and say prejudice/racism etc...is non existent.

Its the same as ppl saying...well aint no racism etc...cause the president is black. Or the ole..."well anything that isn't borderline 1960 jim crow, slavery time racism"...isn't racism/prejudice and your just using the race card.

The new racism/prejudice mindset is to totally dismiss it, act as if it doesn't exist....and any example given in which is has/does occur... then its well look at what you did.

Its the same mindset ppl have who get pulled over for speeding, and they say well hell its other folks speeding, hell its someone that is/was going faster then I was. Or say well I mean it could be worst...I didn't hurt anyone, I aint out drinking and driving, Its other ppl out here doing things much worst then me...so why waste your time and mines pulling me over.

This is how prejudice/bigotry/racism is viewed and handled in the U.S....

 

[mister friendly]

this dude kept it 100 and makes some excellent points. prosecutors failed trayvon smfh.

This guy while not an expert brought up some good very points especially about baiting.

 

[keko jones]

exactly and ppl always bring up Chicago....but half of them didn't pay attention, know about it, or even cared to know about it until it is convenient and be used as a justification...or as a means to dissolve and say prejudice/racism etc...is non existent.

Its the same as ppl saying...well aint no racism etc...cause the president is black. Or the ole..."well anything that isn't borderline 1960 jim crow, slavery time racism"...isn't racism/prejudice and your just using the race card.

The new racism/prejudice mindset is to totally dismiss it, act as if it doesn't exist....and any example given in which is has/does occur... then its well look at what you did.

Its the same mindset ppl have who get pulled over for speeding, and they say well hell its other folks speeding, hell its someone that is/was going faster then I was. Or say well I mean it could be worst...I didn't hurt anyone, I aint out drinking and driving, Its other ppl out here doing things much worst then me...so why waste your time and mines pulling me over.

This is how prejudice/bigotry/racism is viewed and handled in the U.S....

Although, I agree with some of the issues that you have to say here. Even if this is true, why is everyone marching for TM when a 16 y/o boy was killed Sunday while on his way to visit is daughter? SMH! This world is all about media attention and race, PERIOD!

BTW, I been talking about Chicago for years now and even after Interrupters - it's like no one care because is black on black crime! SMH -  if no peace no justice is what you stand for then get your butts out there and talk about it, do something about - dont pick and choose - let you be heard!
[h1] [/h1]

 

[keko jones]

This guy while not an expert brought up some good very points especially about baiting.

 but it is his personal opinion - there are no facts where shows that's what Zimmerman did. 

Why would pulling out a gun be your first option, further proving that was not Zimmerman's intent.

Come on - you have to look at both side and try this on facts!

As a person experience in weapons handling - one of the key and I mean key rules is "never point a weapon at anything you do not intent to shot".

#factsonly

 

[keko jones]

if you look at all the evidence, without bias, this case should have never gone to trial

if you look at the prosecution's presentation, it couldn't be any more clear

exactly - unbias just listening to everything - without knowing race - you being the juror - i think mostly everyone would of have sided with Zimmerman.