***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[frenchbreadbuilds]

So true except I don't seem to hear many advocating for the non educated workforce very loud. People seem to still want the benefits of attending collage just without the debt part.

demand side economics pretty much the entire left's economic policy, hopefully with this change over to a new administration we can start to see some more progress on that front. free/heavily reduced cost at public institutions have been on the Dem agenda for awhile now.

 

[RustyShackleford]

So true except I don't seem to hear many advocating for the non educated workforce very loud. People seem to still want the benefits of attending collage just without the debt part.

In the thing that sparked the conversation, Chuck Schumer was talking about raining the minimum wage, reducing inequality, strengthening unions, recreating tons of good-paying jobs



There are tons of things mentioned to help the non-college having workers. You seemed to ignore that part and focus on the part you felt is not helping you.

No one is advocating for leaving non-college workers behind. In fact, they are doing the opposite of that.

 

[Mark Antony]

Legally, that would have to happen through legislation so that would be unlikely to happen.

That is unfortunate because car debt, up to a certain amount, should be forgiven. Between stagnant wages, unaffordable housing and decades of underinvestment in mass transit, most Americans need a car to get to work. In a more functioning country, you’d be able to live near work, take good mass transit, make a good wage, not have student debt and not pay much or anything out of pocket for healthcare. Then you could buy a car with cash or not because the mass transit is so good.

Medical debt should be forgiven as a sort of reparations for the American state’s inability to deliver a low or no cost, at point of service healthcare system. Credit card debt is a symptom of stagnant wages, forgive whichever part was used to meet basic living expenses. Parts of people’s mortgage that exceed one third of their income should go away because mortgages over a third of your income are a sign of bad housing policies.

We really need to ask why so many Americans are in so much debt.

Hmm, I have no car or medical debt so I don't believe in relief. They got themselves into that.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Why am I not surprised there are normal people willing to defend a student loan syatem that is legitimately built to tie education and growth to lifelong debt?

 

[junglejim]

So true except I don't seem to hear many advocating for the non educated workforce very loud. People seem to still want the benefits of attending collage just without the debt part.

Again, people are advocating for cheaper education not just for current graduates, but future graduates. This will do that. You seem to selectively ignore that. This isn't some one time program. The would be Biden directing a branch of the federal government to stop collecting on certain federal loans in perpetuity.

 

[Based Jesus]

It’s the same thing with health coverwge in this country as well...Ppl WANT to keep the current bs system cuz anything else is “socialism” or “handouts”....Healthcare and education reform should be something that everybody is for but it’s not simple cuz of all the idiots around that sympathize with big business and rich politicians

But I'm gonna be rich someday too! Sure I'm not rich now, and my parents weren't and their parents weren't and their parents weren't, and I have massive medical, educational and credit card debt, and I'm slightly behind on my mortgage payments, and the check engine light in my 2011 corolla has been on for the past 6 months, and my health insurance deductible just went up, and I haven't gotten a raise in 3 years, and my wife just got fired, and we barely have any money saved for retirement or emergencies, but when I'm rich I want people to pay me their debts!

 

[cedric ceballos]

The student loan system needs a complete revamping. I got no issue with some type of forgiveness on it even if I wouldn’t benefit much from it. But moving forward, they need to get that under control.

When I was 18 I sold a lot of stuff on eBay to where I was doing really well for myself at that age. If I tried getting a small business loan, I would be getting shut down so fast even if I had a sustainable plan to pay it off and means to show the business would be a success. If I wanted to take out a 5 figure student loan though, it was very doable.

I ended up taking out student loans for my bachelors and masters in my late 20’s when I started taking college seriously. I got most my debt under control but I could see how a 18 year old. Especially one who wants the college experience but isn’t ready for the academic aspects of college completely can be hindered by those loans.

 

[noshoegame]

The real bottom line is we live in a capitalist country where even our jails are for profit and the idea of higher education for free as amazing as free tuition would be is never going to become a reality.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

ITax dollars going towards the education of minors is in no way the equivalent to a young adult making the personal decision to go to college, obligate themselves to thousands of dollars in loans then turning around and saying college is a scam I can’t use my degree.

the irony here though is that if things play out the way you just described your tax dollar were just wasted because all of that money spent in educating that child only for them be rendered economically inviable because they cant get out from under that debt and be a positive addition to the economy is a net loss. doesnt sound like a better outcome to me. imagine spending all that tax money on a student then doesnt contribute to the economy in a meaningful way

 

[junglejim]

The real bottom line is we live in a capitalist country where even our jails are for profit and the idea of higher education for free as amazing as free tuition would be is never going to become a reality.

Let me ask this, why didn't you go to college? I understand that college isn't for everyone, but you seem intelligent, I'm genuinely curious.

 

[blastercombo]

Education does:

. lowers rates of incarceration
. Creates job opportunities
. Raises base pay
. Creates position of leadership
. Lowers rate of drug dependence
. Lowers chances of depending on government assistance


“but I paid my bills!”

Gotta understand this is bigger than just what YOU paid.

 

[RustyShackleford]

The real bottom line is we live in a capitalist country where even our jails are for profit and the idea of higher education for free as amazing as free tuition would be is never going to become a reality.

Every damn advanced economy except a couple of exceptions are mixed capitalist economies.

Being a capitalist economy is no excuse for the ******** we see in America

There are capitalist countries all over Europe where workers don't have this crippling debt

Capitalism comes in different flavors, America chooses theirs to be ****.

 

[$tatus $ymbol]

the irony here though is that if things play out the way you just described your tax dollar were just wasted because all of that money spent in educating that child only for them be rendered economically inviable because they cant get out from under that debt and be a positive addition to the economy is a net loss. doesnt sound like a better outcome to me. imagine spending all that tax money on a student then doesnt contribute to the economy in a meaningful way

You might’ve missed my previous post but I am for student loan forgiveness as well as free education. I just feel that the situation as it stands is a bit more complicated than some of the explanations that I’ve seen in here. I do appreciate yalls points of view in here though.

 

[Armada]

Cannibalism.

They wanna get him outta there cause he seems to be one of the few republicans left who care about the democratic process. They’d much rather have another kemp in there who will gladly muddy the waters and suppress voters here smh

 

[blastercombo]

Every damn advanced economy except a couple of exceptions are capitalist economies.

Being a capitalist economy is no excuse for the bull**** we see in America

There are capitalist countries all over Europe where workers don't have this crippling debt

Capitalism comes in different flavors, America chooses theirs to be ****.

Well not only that, let’s keep on that capitalist idealism. More educated people lead to higher chances of contributing INTO the system and not being dependent on in.

 

[noshoegame]

the irony here though is that if things play out the way you just described your tax dollar were just wasted because all of that money spent in educating that child only for them be rendered economically inviable because they cant get out from under that debt and be a positive addition to the economy is a net loss. doesnt sound like a better outcome to me. imagine spending all that tax money on a student then doesnt contribute to the economy in a meaningful way

Pretending that someone who is collage educated and in debt is more of a strain on the economy and our tax dollars over the non educated poverty stricken ones does not make a lot of sense.

This is exactly my entire argument against forgiving formerly accumulated student loans.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

I also want to

Pretending that someone who is collage educated and in debt is more of a strain on the economy and our tax dollars over the non educated poverty stricken ones does not make a lot of sense.

This is exactly my entire argument against forgiving formerly accumulated student loans.

again, youre the only here making the assumption only one of the issue can be addressed. who here is making that choice?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Pretending that someone who is collage educated and in debt is more of a strain on the economy and our tax dollars over the non educated poverty stricken ones does not make a lot of sense.

This is exactly my entire argument against forgiving formerly accumulated student loans.

What a massive ******* strawman argument

No one in here is doing that.

Hell Schumer and Biden are not even doing that.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

I think a lot of it has to do with taking the risk, even if you know it could be painful longterm. While some argue that the people who didn’t take loans deserve something too, you can’t negate the sacrifice that a person makes for their education when they decide to take out a loan for higher education. Especially with a system that it’s pretty common knowledge is not beneficial longterm.

Some could argue that those people who didn’t take the risk were afraid to bet on themselves.

*I will not benefit at all from student loan forgiveness

 

[reformeDWS]

the biggest argument I see against forgiving loan debt seems to be that it isn't fair to those who have already paid their loan debt back.

if the best argument against doing something progressive is "I had to suffer through this so people after me should suffer too", the argument ******* sucks.

 

[Mark Antony]

I guess everyone has their level of "pull yourself up by the bootstrap".

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

You might’ve missed my previous post but I am for student loan forgiveness as well as free education. I just feel that the situation as it stands is a bit more complicated than some of the explanations that I’ve seen in here. I do appreciate yalls points of view in here though.

i get it, i just believe that the positive impact of liberating people economically far out weighs the personal choices people may have made to take on the debt. with new legislation youd want it to be much more difficult for people to find themselves in that position again

 

[noshoegame]

What a massive ****ing strawman argument

No one in here is doing that.

Hell Schumer and Biden are not even doing that.

The narrative that you continue pushing is that currently the people earning well over the average American income are the ones who need the most help will never make sense to me.

 

[pmatic]

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

The narrative that you continue pushing is that currently the people earning well over the average American income are the ones who need the most help will never make sense to me.

who said this?