***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[junglejim]

I agree with this in theory however the reality is that you are still making a personal decision to go to college and obligate yourself to a loan in order to do so. Does that hold no merit?

Why stop at secondary education though? Why don't we start slapping kindergarteners with loans for education? Why should MY tax dollars go to K-12 funding? They chose to go to school so they should have to pay for it, right?

 

[junglejim]

I just have a hard time understanding why we think that they are the ones who need the help? I'm 100% for reform, but you cant reap all the benefits of a collage education and then cry and complain about paying for opportunity when so many Americans are not as lucky.

They already got help by getting a loan to pay for the service they signed up for in the first place and now you want to give that service out for free while the rest of us fall further behind?

Would this not give you the opportunity not to fall behind? Would free college and low barriers to entry not give you the same opportunity as everyone else to live a better life?

I don't understand this argument. I'd personally rather there just be interest rate free loans, but at some point we need to start using our tax money to fund things that will actually better people's lives.

 

[MVP]

WiDeSpReAd FrAuD

Mans got WASHED

 

[RustyShackleford]

I just have a hard time understanding why we think that they are the ones who need the help? I'm 100% for reform, but you cant reap all the benefits of a collage education and then cry and complain about paying for opportunity when so many Americans are not as lucky.

They already got help by getting a loan to pay for the service they signed up for in the first place and now you want to give that service out for free while the rest of us fall further behind?

Because labor economist have pointed out over and over that the cost of college was allowed to hyperinflate, and it is still doing so

Wages growth have been weak for decades

The lifetime wage premium for college is decreasing

And because student loan payments are slowing down people from engaging in a certain amount of economic activity (which hurts the country generally)

You outchea trying to argue they don't deserve help even though they are clearly being screwed relative to the previous generation, and that we should not make a smart economic move, all because you are upset about who gets help.

Sorry, that is simply not an argument I can respect.

 

[$tatus $ymbol]

Why stop at secondary education though? Why don't we start slapping kindergarteners with loans for education? Why should MY tax dollars go to K-12 funding? They chose to go to school so they should have to pay for it, right?

I get this argument as well. For what it’s worth I am for student loan forgiveness as well as free education. However this is a false equivalence imo. Tax dollars going towards the education of minors is in no way the equivalent to a young adult making the personal decision to go to college, obligate themselves to thousands of dollars in loans then turning around and saying college is a scam I can’t use my degree. I feel you though, I truly do

 

[noshoegame]

Would this not give you the opportunity not to fall behind? Would free college and low barriers to entry not give you the same opportunity as everyone else to live a better life?

I don't understand this argument.

The argument was forgive debt not give free admission. I think everyone can get behind free admission.

If you forgive people who currently have student loan debt I think that all of us should have the same opportunity for a free education.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

I just have a hard time understanding why we think that they are the ones who need the help? I'm 100% for reform, but you cant reap all the benefits of a collage education and then cry and complain about paying for opportunity when so many Americans are not as lucky.

They already got help by getting a loan to pay for the service they signed up for in the first place and now you want to give that service out for free while the rest of us fall further behind?

two things can be true cant they? we can want to economically and educationally empower our non degree holding workforce as well recognize that it doesnt make sense that teachers go into debt many times their salaries to teach at public schools.

having ANY meaningful part of the work force having their economic power suppressed is bad for the ENTIRE work force. Its that simple. In a world where youre advocating for one form of relief youre more than likely advocating for the other as well.

 

[RustyShackleford]

These "you knew what you were getting into" sounds a lot like the tough on crime folk trying to rationalize an overly punitive criminal justice system.

 

[junglejim]

The argument was forgive debt not give free admission. I think everyone can get behind free admission.

If you forgive people who currently have student loan debt I think that all of us should have the same opportunity for a free education.

If you stop collecting on federal loans, that means people are getting free education. Do you think this only applies to people who have graduated or what? This is going to be an ongoing program and is going to affect those that are currently in college as well and plan to attend college in the future.

 

[noshoegame]

Because labor economist have pointed out over and over that the cost of college was allowed to hyperinflate, and it is still doing so

Wages growth have been weak for decades

The lifetime wage premium for college is decreasing

And because student loan payments are slowing down people from engaging in a certain amount of economic activity (which hurts the country generally)

You outchea trying to argue they don't deserve help even though they are clearly being screwed relative to the previous generation, that we should not make a smart economic move, all because you are upset about who gets help.

Sorry, that is simply not a convincing argument.

I generally agree with most of what you said. I just think that if you forgive people with debt that the rest of the people who chose not to put themselves in debt should have an equal opportunity to then get a free education also.

 

[RIP sleazyy]

Agree 100% which is why instead of forgiving the debt we should offer the future generations an opportunity to attend state schools for free.

but what about the people that already pa-

you know what **** it

 

[Mark Antony]

Some purely hater ****. I've yet to see any economical ramifications posted. Jealousy and envy behind seeing folks other than yourself being helped, disgusting mindset.

 

[rexanglorum]

We canceling car debt ?

Legally, that would have to happen through legislation so that would be unlikely to happen.

That is unfortunate because car debt, up to a certain amount, should be forgiven. Between stagnant wages, unaffordable housing and decades of underinvestment in mass transit, most Americans need a car to get to work. In a more functioning country, you’d be able to live near work, take good mass transit, make a good wage, not have student debt and not pay much or anything out of pocket for healthcare. Then you could buy a car with cash or not because the mass transit is so good.

Medical debt should be forgiven as a sort of reparations for the American state’s inability to deliver a low or no cost, at point of service healthcare system. Credit card debt is a symptom of stagnant wages, forgive whichever part was used to meet basic living expenses. Parts of people’s mortgage that exceed one third of their income should go away because mortgages over a third of your income are a sign of bad housing policies.

We really need to ask why so many Americans are in so much debt.

 

[junglejim]

I get this argument as well. For what it’s worth I am for student loan forgiveness as well as free education. However this is a false equivalence imo. Tax dollars going towards the education of minors is in no way the equivalent to a young adult making the personal decision to go to college, obligate themselves to thousands of dollars in loans then turning around and saying college is a scam I can’t use my degree. I feel you though, I truly do

I paid off my loans, I will in no way, shape, or form benefit from this program. I'm just merely pointing out how ******* stupid it is that our current system ends federal, state, and local funding at the 12th grade.

False equivalency or not, if everyone had to pay for their education out of pocket instead of with taxpayer funding it would disproportionately affect the poor which is what the current higher education system does.

 

[$tatus $ymbol]

Some purely hater ****. I've yet to see any economical ramifications posted. Jealousy and envy behind seeing folks other than yourself being helped, disgusting mindset.

This is why I don’t think folks in here are ready to have the convo dacomeup
I think the convo is more nuanced that folks in here are willing to acknowledge but hey anyway that offers a differing opinion is jealous and envious lol

 

[had pants]

 

[noshoegame]

having ANY meaningful part of the work force having their economic power suppressed is bad for the ENTIRE work force. Its that simple. In a world where youre advocating for one form of relief youre more than likely advocating for the other as well.

So true except I don't seem to hear many advocating for the non educated workforce very loud. People seem to still want the benefits of attending collage just without the debt part.

 

[mplsdunk]

Why would you go after people getting their loans paid because you’re broke? Tf do they have to do with each other?

 

[RustyShackleford]

I generally agree with most of what you said. I just think that if you forgive people with debt that the rest of the people who chose not to put themselves in debt should have an equal opportunity to then get a free education also.

Brah, the Democratic Party and Joe Biden want to have some sort of job program and give people the opportunity to have free community college, trade school and job retraining

Progressive want even more for non-college degree having workers.

No one is saying **** one group and only help the others. People are staying it is smart to help a certain group too.

The Dems hands are tied by the GOP, so they can't pull the trigger on everything they want. So Chuck Schumer said that in this one area the law would allow Biden to make a certain move.

So I have no idea why there is so much pushback from people saying everyone needs help, but given the restrictions, we need to do everything we can.

 

[had pants]

 

[pmatic]

Cannibalism.

 

[junglejim]

This is false, but the part about individual taxes going up in 2027 is correct.

 

[Upptempo]

Why would you go after people getting their loans paid because you’re broke? Tf do they have to do with each other?

this **** would be like hearing that someone homeless was gifted a house and being like "**** that! I have to pay a mortgage!! He should stay on the street and pay for his mistakes!"

 

[Mark Antony]

This is why I don’t think folks in here are ready to have the convo dacomeup
I think the convo is more nuanced that folks in here are willing to acknowledge but hey anyway that offers a differing opinion is jealous and envious lol

I'm asking for those opposed to provide that "nuance" of their perspective, I see them struggling or using the crutch of those who don't fully believe in their stance "they not ready".

 

[rexanglorum]

I get this argument as well. For what it’s worth I am for student loan forgiveness as well as free education. However this is a false equivalence imo. Tax dollars going towards the education of minors is in no way the equivalent to a young adult making the personal decision to go to college, obligate themselves to thousands of dollars in loans then turning around and saying college is a scam I can’t use my degree. I feel you though, I truly do

In most States, you can legally drop out and work when you’re sixteen so finishing 11th and 12 grade are also personal decisions.

Should students, who chose to graduate high school, pay back the cost of those two years of schooling? After all, high school graduates make more money, and on average, than high school drop outs. High school graduates shouldn’t get bailed out because they choose to continue their education.