***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[getback]

I’m sorry but I can’t get down with just foregoing financial matters that you obligated yourself to. Like someone else said, let’s just forgive car and personal loans as well while we’re at it. I can also recognize that the federal student loan system may need reform as well. Just my 2 cents.

At least you get to drive the car.

Most of the time the degree doesn't even deliver what society led you to believe it would. Sh*t most people I know don't even use their degree unless it was something in health care or law or something super focused like accounting. Since 2008 it's been particularly bad.

Society grooms people into believing a higher degree is required if you want to live a comfortable life when that couldn't be further from the truth. When you pressure a bunch of vulnerable 17-19 year old kids into thinking they're f'd unless they get a degree and sell them a bill of goods on college, they're more likely to sign the dotted line and incur that lifetime of debt unless they play their hand really well.

 

[niceshoes247]

We canceling car debt ?

 

[junglejim]

The ones who are really struggling are the ones without that degree.

And the ones without a degree are the ones who would benefit the most from a cheap education and low barriers to entry.

A system where you either have to have a rich family to pay for education or you have to bury yourself in debt only stands to hurt the poor.

 

[noshoegame]

42 % of Americans incurred debt for college education. We still have people contributing to the economy that went to college and got advanced degrees when you could pay for them with a job ay mcdonalds. what happens next? you think that 42% number is going to go up or down?

You guys keep ignoring the facts that those 42% of people chose to go into debt and are statistically more likely to earn almost double of the ones who did not over lifetime which is the driving factor in making that decision in the first place.

So maybe companies should pay everyone the same regardless of education if as you guys seem to think is so worthless?

You cant have it both ways.

 

[Wargames]

I’m sorry but I can’t get down with just foregoing financial matters that you obligated yourself to. Like someone else said, let’s just forgive car and personal loans as well while we’re at it. I can also recognize that the federal student loan system may need reform as well. Just my 2 cents.

Here is the compromise I always throw out there. Forgive the interest and make it college loans have no interest going forward. That’s not even “foregoing obligations” it’s just not making my education a financial investment for a bank.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Society grooms people into believing a higher degree is required if you want to live a comfortable life when that couldn't be further from the truth. When you pressure a bunch of vulnerable 17-19 year old kids into thinking they're f'd unless they get a degree and sell them a bill of goods on college, they're more likely to sign the dotted line and incur that lifetime of debt unless they play their hand really well.

Quoted for emphasis

now think about all of the black kids being the firsts in their family doing it alone with no one to look to thats been through it before

 

[KHUFU]

So, who got dat' fever?!

 

[noshoegame]

And the ones without a degree are the ones who would benefit the most from a cheap education and low barriers to entry.

Agree 100% which is why instead of forgiving the debt we should offer the future generations an opportunity to attend state schools for free.

 

[RustyShackleford]

-States cut funding to universities to give business tax breaks
-States state lotteries to fund education yet don't really do that, just give business tax breaks
-States expand the size of university administrations, putting upward pressure on tuition
-States cut and never refund universities after every recession
-Universities add tons of amenities to colleges partially because the affluent alumni want it for their kids
-Universities keep offering sports scholarships for non profiting earning sports, turning into an affirmative action plan for affluent white students
-States and counties refuse to expand city and community college systems to meet demand
-Employers demand college degrees for more and more entry-level jobs
-US government lets wage growth and the college wage premium crater

-Student take of loans to finance the cost of the degree that has been hyperinflated for decades, but is demanded by employers

Why, can't people see it is all the students' fault. Why should we help those people, they knew what they were doing.

 

[junglejim]

You guys keep ignoring the facts that those 42% of people chose to go into debt and are statistically more likely to earn almost double of the ones who did not over lifetime which is the driving factor in making that decision in the first place.

So maybe companies should pay everyone the same regardless of education if as you guys seem to think is so worthless?

You cant have it both ways.

Why not? They pay for people's college in Norway, Sweden, Finland, Germany, France, and Denmark. Why are we one of the richest countries in the world also one of the only countries that doesn't invest significantly in it when our economy disproportionately benefits from such a education structure?

 

[Armada]

The ones who are really struggling are the ones without that degree.

Yea and most people here get that too. I don’t know anyone in this thread that doesn’t agree minimum wage should be greatly increased . This should not be framed as because you’re not struggling as much as others your struggle is invalid. There needs to be something done to help struggling people with a degree and debt and struggling people without a degree and no debt there is 0 reason both can’t be done

 

[junglejim]

Agree 100% which is why instead of forgiving the debt we should offer the future generations an opportunity to attend state schools for free.

This is doing that.......

 

[$tatus $ymbol]

Black students are graduating with double the student loan debt of white students. Is it really just as simple as “forgoing financial matters that you obligated yourself to”?

Nah, which is why in the same statement I mentioned that I can acknowledge that the entire system is due for reform. I agree it’s a complicated issue. I don’t think folks in here (not including yourself) are ready to have that conversation about the intricacies of it. Good point you made though.

 

[RustyShackleford]

The ones who are really struggling are the ones without that degree.

No one is arguing not helping all workers, even those without a college degree.

So you are just hung up over this because you are upset that someone other than you is getting help?

It is a ridiculous zero-sum way to frame the discussion

 

[tomdiginson]

Loan forgiveness is a tricky one. It's not as simple as just wiping off debt. People skipped past public colleges for private and took out loans on degrees that are useless in the real world and are looking for forgiveness. I know a few people like this. One of them was able to transition into the tech field and start making some money.

 

[Upptempo]

Crazy that dudes won't bat an eyelash at news that a corporation that managed its money terribly had MILLIONS of dollars forgiven, paid for with tax dollars, but are ready to throw hands because the dude down the block might get $10k forgiven of his student loan

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

You guys keep ignoring the facts that those 42% of people chose to go into debt and are statistically more likely to earn almost double of the ones who did not over lifetime which is the driving factor in making that decision in the first place.

So maybe companies should pay everyone the same regardless of education if as you guys seem to think is so worthless?

You cant have it both ways.

and you keep ignoring the fact that the costs of education are growing faster than the salaries of those who get degrees. The cost of attendance at my school grew almost 15k just in the time it took me to get my undergrad and masters. and that hasnt stopped. it still growing. sectors like real-estate are gonna feel this heavy when peoplewith 70k salaries out of collge have debt to income ratios that out in space.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I paid off damn near over 60K is loan debt

It sucked

But the opponents of the policy seem to not be offering much beyond personal responsibility politics.

Even if we put aside what is fair or unfair, and who deserves what. Could someone please tell me how not doing it benefits the macroeconomy.

 

[$tatus $ymbol]

At least you get to drive the car.

Most of the time the degree doesn't even deliver what society led you to believe it would. Sh*t most people I know don't even use their degree unless it was something in health care or law or something super focused like accounting. Since 2008 it's been particularly bad.

Society grooms people into believing a higher degree is required if you want to live a comfortable life when that couldn't be further from the truth. When you pressure a bunch of vulnerable 17-19 year old kids into thinking they're f'd unless they get a degree and sell them a bill of goods on college, they're more likely to sign the dotted line and incur that lifetime of debt unless they play their hand really well.

I agree with this in theory however the reality is that you are still making a personal decision to go to college and obligate yourself to a loan in order to do so. Does that hold no merit?

 

[junglejim]

We spend more on defense than China, India, Russia, France, Saudi Arabia, Germany, United Kingdom, Japan, South Korea, and Brazil COMBINED, but spending money on education is the real issue in our country.

And this is why our country is going broke, our education system is falling behind, and we have some of the lowest math and scientific testing scores of all the developed nations.

 

[Belgium]

In Belgium we have caps on tuition fees and no admission standards. Anyone can attend whatever college or university they want if they can afford the tuition. This results in very low graduation rates for some groups of course but at least they got their opportunity if they want it.
Someone who graduated in hairdressing in highschool (let's call this C tier education, which focuses on teaching manual labor so they can go straight to work without higher education) would have learned very little theory in highschool during standard classes like math etc, of which there are fewer, they're less difficult and fewer hours per week than. 0.3% of people who graduated highschool in that education tier successfully graduate from college or university when they try for example.

Some of our universities are ranked in the top 100 worldwide and I know the tuition cap for one of them is at €890/year.
When I was in college for nursing, I paid a €250 tuition fee and successfully applied for a €3200 study grant based on my financial situation at the time.

 

[dacomeup]

Nah, which is why in the same statement I mentioned that I can acknowledge that the entire system is due for reform. I agree it’s a complicated issue. I don’t think folks in here (not including yourself) are ready to have that conversation about the intricacies of it. Good point you made though.

Oh I think people are plenty ready to have the convo . But just a wholesale approach of “you took the loan so it’s your responsibility” is oppressive, as Black people in general are affected disproportionately by this as we’ve been denied so many of the traditional avenues of accumulating wealth over 400 years.

 

[noshoegame]

No one is arguing not helping all workers, even those without a college degree.

So you are just hung up over this because you are upset that someone other than you is getting help?

It is a ridiculous zero-sum way to frame the discussion

I just have a hard time understanding why we think that they are the ones who need the help? I'm 100% for reform, but you cant reap all the benefits of a collage education and then cry and complain about paying for opportunity when so many Americans are not as lucky.

They already got help by getting a loan to pay for the service they signed up for in the first place and now you want to give that service out for free while the rest of us fall further behind?

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

I could be 100% excluded and id still be for cheaper more attainable college education and student loan forgiveness

 

[Upptempo]

People will tell someone they should've gone to a good school and followed their dreams even if it meant student loans and then when someone was ambitious and decided to aim high and go to a good college and has a loan to pay off, they say you should've settled for a cheaper school. **** is crazy