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***Official Political Discussion Thread***
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by rico x hood,
- Start date
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She's ******* dirty man, an illegal immigrant who got her family brought over because of chain migration ****ting on those same people. FDB.
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republicans spent the last 30 year demonizing the clintons
without it making actual sense
it’s like when you talk to certain people about obamacare vs the avoidable care act
you have people who are just stupid and people who are just disingenuous
bill just happened to be a charismatic white male, so of course those tactics are going work as well as it did on a woman.. ain’t much people on this planet as charismatic as Bill
hillary is incredibly smart and qualified.. I mean chuck Todd legit criticized her for seeming over prepared
seems like a good time to reference that msnbc as Fox News of the left thing.. chuck Todd, legit criticism was someone being over prepared when she was was running for the top job and control of nukes
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She is making 50% great points mixed with 50% self-serving points
She made great points about being online and anti-racist deep canvassing. I think in the absence of a robust post-mortem analysis of the election, these are great points.
But the interview but came off really self-serving and in some ways hypocritical.
She takes issue with centrist throwing them under the bus so soon after the election, yet pretty much does the same thing through-out this interview
Like she says the Democrats need to not avoid the issue of racial resentment in America (Which is every true, and a very important point), then herself avoids the issue completely by claiming the Tea Party causing the red wave in 2010 was because Obama wasn't progressive enough or wasn't campaigning enough online. Which is pure bull****, it is pure delusion, it is pure nonsense. The Obama Era political losses were because of white resentment, gerrymandering. 2014 is the best example of voter apathy, but even then it is not that simple.
The thing is that I also feel her and others that think like her strawman what centrist and liberals want from them. She switches the framing of the discussion back and forth between "I'm just talking about campaign tactics" to "I'm talking about the core policy agenda of the party". Sure there are ****ty centrist that want the Dems to abandon any progressive policy, and **** them. But listening to Jim Clayburn seems like he is saying that the Dems need a national messaging strategy that all Dems could run under. And progressive can be allowed to run on a more progressive platform, and centrist can just run on the generic one.
Now, this is hard for two reasons. People are right when they say that the GOP will vilify the Dems no matter what they do. Second, the Dems is a big tent party, so people within the coalition will take objection to this strategy (which they have every right to). However, I think the point of the Dems needing to control the conversation politically is important. And that is hard to do, especially when the team is divided. Centrist benefit from activist energy in their district, Progressive benefits from voter loyal to the Dem ticket even though they don't agree with the full agenda. Thing is that one side has a much smaller margin of error.
Again, like I have mentioned numerous times, AOC has no evidence that the Democratic Party becoming a leftist party will be the cure-all she claims, like none. There are no leftist winning in the red states and House races the Dems need to win and maintain power. Bernie is not an example of that, she isn't, the rest of the Squad isn't, etc. She keeps preaching point to examples that don't back up her central claim. The fact is, if her district had a +2 to +6 R rating she would get probably get murked. The examples of Dems in red areas running ahead of the Party, but most of these examples are not progressives, but folk like John Tester, and Manchin. Sherrod Brown might be the best example of her theory actually, yet is a different politician than here. (scary thing is that all these people are getting old).
When it comes to electoral strategy, Centrist and Leftist both make good points, both make bull**** points, but overall centrist might be more right all things considered. And because they are key to holding political power, the liberal leadership of the Party of course are inclined to want to protect them.
I feel their best way forward is if they could pass their policy agenda. The hundreds of bills Mitch stopped, and then run on that record. Republicans make people scared of the Dems agenda in theory, in practice, a lot of people like them. In the absence of that, I think they need to get lucky, like very lucky. And I can no idea how they can pull that off.
To be honest, I think the Democratic Party is in serious trouble. They can argue among themselves but the fact remains a lot of their issues are because they are playing a game rigged against them. Gerrymandering, voter suppression, political propaganda, Senate lean, all work against them. They don't have to just be better to win, they have to blow out the other side. This is the thing that just warps any and all arguments about political strategy.
This either become one thing or the other. They don't serve two masters. America will either become a democracy or sink further into becoming an anti-democratic conservative state. The best shot at democracy was Dems dominating in 2020. That didn't happen so no one knows what to do now. Not Biden, not AOC, not centrist, not Pelosi, not me, no one.
So for right now, I will just donate to the Georgia Senate candidates. Trust they know what they are doing in their own races. Hope for the best. And maybe in a few months, things are clearer about the best way forward.
Because again, right now, I don't think anyone knows what to do.
Dammit why did you have to talk all this cold hard reality while I was still on my election high?
Your absolutely right though no one knows what comes next and people are avoiding thinking about it because we have that Georgia senate race hope..... if we don’t win both those seats they may have won the war.....
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I can't get over this yet and still can't believe paid, working adults could bungle something this public, in the age of information and accessibility. I need a documentary segment breakdown or something.
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Not a lot of valid, fact based reasons why some folks dislike Hilary.
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People keep ****ting on Biden. His policy on Covid and such look good. I know it’s funny and I know it’s not Obama the goat but cmon
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She’s a woman. Period. Low T white men cannot be told what to do by a woman
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it’s like George soros, Obama, Bernie, Elizabeth warren and now AOC and ilhan Omar
none of it actually makes sense, but their names are recognizable dog whistles to certain people
and republicans got a limited playbook, so they just play the hits
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If folks want, I suggest trying to record or screen cap Trumps tweets cause I believe eventually he will quit Twitter or be permanently banned
Been doing this all week for posterity. My personal fav’s are “STOP THE COUNT!” And “I WON THIS ELECTION - BY A LOT!”
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You also should mention that Collins won her election in Maine, which never should’ve happened given how unpopular Trump was. Honestly, it’s hard to argue that Dems underperformed in the Senate races this year. To your point, it’s less about winning states like Alabama, which, realistically, Jones should never have had that seat to begin with (to your other point about Roy Moore) and more about running the right candidates in the states that winning these races is possible. For a $100m+ race, NC was a complete disaster for Dems.
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Need this.
Handsome.
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So what is your solution here? I’m suggesting pushing for centrism so that you can at least include right-leaning centrists. How else are Dems supposed to win a Senate majority again, especially if you consider the last time they had one was thanks in no small part to Blue Dog Dems.
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Yeah this is why I’m warning people-I don’t think these people are suddenly going to disappear when Trump is out of office. Dems need to expand to include a boarder coalition in order to have the numbers to defeat/negate these people’s votes so that the 2022 and 2024 elections won’t be a bloodbath for the left. People on the left should be legitimately concerned the election was this close to begin with.
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RustyShackleford
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The problem with your analysis is that Republican voters are not driven by economic centristism, they want Dems to back off supporting social change.
They want Dems to commit to helping to oppress black and brown communities
So the many of the people that like the Dems becoming a civil rights party, that are helping Dems stay afloat, will have to be thrown under the bus to appeal to these voters. Will those people show up to the polls?
It not some simple calculation, and from where I stand, no one is acting like things are wavy going forward.
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RustyShackleford
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Honestly, all these "This is what the Dems should do" takes really come off as "The Dems should become a party more inlined with my views"
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The Dems need to go for the jugular in 2022. Dumb it down for all I care. But relay the message over and over until it resonates. The GOP if they keep the senate are going to intentionally be the party of no, they’re going to obstruct and shut down anything the Dems try to accomplish. The message needs to sink in and be drilled in to casual voters, people who don’t follow politics much etc. Make Mitch McConnell out to be the devil he is to where the message is successfully conveyed all across the board and to where your political casuals know who he and his party is for all the wrong reasons.
Biden can talk all that time to heal and come together stuff and it’s what an incumbent President is supposed to say so I get it. But come January 20th. It’s no incentive for mitch and company to reciprocate any olive branches when they’re going to be zoomed in on 2022. I hope Biden plays hardball back.
Biden can talk all that time to heal and come together stuff and it’s what an incumbent President is supposed to say so I get it. But come January 20th. It’s no incentive for mitch and company to reciprocate any olive branches when they’re going to be zoomed in on 2022. I hope Biden plays hardball back.
aepps20
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She is making 50% great points mixed with 50% self-serving points
She made great points about being online and anti-racist deep canvassing. I think in the absence of a robust post-mortem analysis of the election, these are great points.
But the interview but came off really self-serving and in some ways hypocritical.
She takes issue with centrist throwing them under the bus so soon after the election, yet pretty much does the same thing through-out this interview
Like she says the Democrats need to not avoid the issue of racial resentment in America (Which is every true, and a very important point), then herself avoids the issue completely by claiming the Tea Party causing the red wave in 2010 was because Obama wasn't progressive enough or wasn't campaigning enough online. Which is pure bull****, it is pure delusion, it is pure nonsense. The Obama Era political losses were because of white resentment, gerrymandering. 2014 is the best example of voter apathy, but even then it is not that simple.
The thing is that I also feel her and others that think like her strawman what centrist and liberals want from them. She switches the framing of the discussion back and forth between "I'm just talking about campaign tactics" to "I'm talking about the core policy agenda of the party". Sure there are ****ty centrist that want the Dems to abandon any progressive policy, and **** them. But listening to Jim Clayburn seems like he is saying that the Dems need a national messaging strategy that all Dems could run under. And progressive can be allowed to run on a more progressive platform, and centrist can just run on the generic one.
Now, this is hard for two reasons. People are right when they say that the GOP will vilify the Dems no matter what they do. Second, the Dems is a big tent party, so people within the coalition will take objection to this strategy (which they have every right to). However, I think the point of the Dems needing to control the conversation politically is important. And that is hard to do, especially when the team is divided. Centrist benefit from activist energy in their district, Progressive benefits from voter loyal to the Dem ticket even though they don't agree with the full agenda. Thing is that one side has a much smaller margin of error.
Again, like I have mentioned numerous times, AOC has no evidence that the Democratic Party becoming a leftist party will be the cure-all she claims, like none. There are no leftist winning in the red states and House races the Dems need to win and maintain power. Bernie is not an example of that, she isn't, the rest of the Squad isn't, etc. She keeps preaching point to examples that don't back up her central claim. The fact is, if her district had a +2 to +6 R rating she would get probably get murked. The examples of Dems in red areas running ahead of the Party, but most of these examples are not progressives, but folk like John Tester, and Manchin. Sherrod Brown might be the best example of her theory actually, yet is a different politician than here. (scary thing is that all these people are getting old).
When it comes to electoral strategy, Centrist and Leftist both make good points, both make bull**** points, but overall centrist might be more right all things considered. And because they are key to holding political power, the liberal leadership of the Party of course are inclined to want to protect them.
I feel their best way forward is if they could pass their policy agenda. The hundreds of bills Mitch stopped, and then run on that record. Republicans make people scared of the Dems agenda in theory, in practice, a lot of people like them. In the absence of that, I think they need to get lucky, like very lucky. And I can no idea how they can pull that off.
To be honest, I think the Democratic Party is in serious trouble. They can argue among themselves but the fact remains a lot of their issues are because they are playing a game rigged against them. Gerrymandering, voter suppression, political propaganda, Senate lean, all work against them. They don't have to just be better to win, they have to blow out the other side. This is the thing that just warps any and all arguments about political strategy.
This either become one thing or the other. They don't serve two masters. America will either become a democracy or sink further into becoming an anti-democratic conservative state. The best shot at democracy was Dems dominating in 2020. That didn't happen so no one knows what to do now. Not Biden, not AOC, not centrist, not Pelosi, not me, no one.
So for right now, I will just donate to the Georgia Senate candidates. Trust they know what they are doing in their own races. Hope for the best. And maybe in a few months, things are clearer about the best way forward.
Because again, right now, I don't think anyone knows what to do.
I think engagement with our voters and working with grass roots organizations is critical. The problem we have comes down to the same problem we've always had and that's our voters need to vote consistently. We have to understand that the Republicans have been brainwashed to the point where they think that we will literally kill them if they don't check our power. I was watching my church online today and they were acting like Biden winning would destroy Christians. These people are fighting for their lives which is why they turned out. We assumed they wouldn't be as motivated as we were and we were wrong. Obama's presidency broke these people.
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I'm beyond washed from yesterday
I was up this morning fighting for my life
Worth it.
I was up this morning fighting for my life
Worth it.
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What did your church say about the election? I left my previous church (Baptist) in 2016 after I was approached by a group from the church who was registering voters after services. I appreciated what they were doing until they told my wife and I that it was time to get the Muslims out of the White House. Called the guy out and never went back. Had been a member for five years. Thankfully the church we moved to does not get involved with partisan politics.
