***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[junglejim]

I don’t think that you have to accept any of those views. Nor do I support those views. I think they are disgusting and indefensible.

But I think that my response did matter because the accusation was about Trump, not Stephen Miller. I believe the poster intentionally worded it that way to make it seem as if Trump hires people who declare they are white supremacists. That’s why I pushed back in the manner in which I did.

It’s clear you disagree with my analysis, but it was made in good faith.

I intentionally ignore slights and jabs in this thread so that it doesn’t devolve into meaningless table pounding.

again, I was responding to YOUR post claiming that people were ignoring all the good Trump was doing for the black community. My response to you was why are you ignoring all racist **** he is doing. But please, continue acting like I came in here out of nowhere and called your name for no reason at all when it was you starting with a blatant race baiting post

we can gladly check the tape on this if you would like

 

[dwalk31]

Are you suggesting Trump doesn't support white supremacists?

Yes. Trump has disavowed and denounced racism and white supremacy/supremacists on multiple occasions.

 

[dwalk31]

again, I was responding to YOUR post claiming that people were ignoring all the good Trump was doing for the black community. My response to you was why are you ignoring all racist **** he is doing. But please, continue acting like I came in here out of nowhere and called your name for no reason at all when it was you starting with a blatant race baiting post

we can gladly check the tape on this if you would like

Check the tape, please.

Me posting about prison reform, the fair chance act and the first step act is not race baiting. These are actual issues that I think are important.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Yes. Trump has disavowed and denounced racism and white supremacy/supremacists on multiple occasions.

What about his "very fine people on both sides" remark regarding the Charlottesville incident, when one side was white supremacists

Why doesn't he fire Stephan Miller when we have so much evidence that he is a racist?

 

[noskey]

Wait wait wait. You are really going to act like I came in here and @ you out of nowhere about Stephen Miller like you didn’t come in here first and tell everyone how convenient it was that people ignore the first step act signed by trump while simultaneously ignoring all the racist **** he has done? You can’t be this daft can you?

*Narrator* - "He can"

 

[junglejim]

original post that started it all

also think its going to be a show when conservatives will have to trash a policy like stop and frisk for being racist over and over to attack bloomberg, while originating with conservatives. Trump was a fan of it as well. Only difference is Bloomberg is on record saying he was wrong about it.

YourRESPONSE

Another glaring difference is that Bloomberg was actually an elected official and it was his signature policy.

A tweet from Trump when he didn’t hold an elected office is like an old NT post from a NTer that runs for elected office later.

Bloomberg held office and his stop and frisk policy increased stops significanlty in a way that disproportionally affected black people.

Plus, how is “he’s just like Trump” a defense when most on the left despise Trump?

The cognitive dissonance being deployed by those on the left to support Bloomberg is hilarious.

This is where is came in RESPONDING to YOU

Is stop and frisk really all that different than locking kids in cages and killing them? Not to support Bloomberg because he can go **** himself and he is the last person I would like to see become a candidate, but to act like Trump doesn't have inherently racist policies while in office is ****ing laughable.

your response

As problematic as it is, the “kids in cages” didn’t begin with this administration. And the Obama administration deported far more undocumented immigrants than this administration:

Fact-checking Biden on use of cages for migrants

Joe Biden claimed that a key difference between the administrations of Barack Obama and Donald Trump is that Obama didn’

www.politifact.com

That said, it is clear that we need comprehensive immigration reform.

But you conveniently ignore the First Step Act and the Fair Chance Act which were signed under this administration. Comparing that to the implementation of stop and frisk by Bloomberg, and coming up with Trump as worse, is nonsensical. It’s as if a (D) next to his name makes those on the left ignore reality.

Bloomberg’s policies ripped black families apart, period. That isn’t Trump’s record. And posting tweets by Trump, when he wasn’t an elected official, doesn’t change that.

my response to you telling me I’m “conveniently ignoring stuff”

it's convenient of you to ignore the rise of white supremacy in this nation since trump took office and his touting of white supremacists not only his cabinet, but in general. But I guess overt racism is fine since he signed two bills

your veiled response that racism has been around forever so it’s fine

I don’t know where you’re from, but white supremacists were loud, ignorant and wrong long before Trump. And they will probably be long after.

They might get more coverage in NY and CA now. But it isn’t some new reality in the south.

And this is FINALLY the point where we get to Stephen Miller

has a recent president ever had a member of their cabinet that was a self proclaimed white supremacist other than Donald Trump?

But please continue with your with your argument that I came in here outta ******* nowhere talking about Stephen Miller for no reason whatsoever and you didn’t do anything to bait the conversation. You are absolutely the victim here

 

[Belgium]

Yes. Trump has disavowed and denounced racism and white supremacy/supremacists on multiple occasions.

He also endorsed and promoted Roy Moore, someone so racist that he openly made pro-slavery comments. Trump also blamed African-Americans for virtually all violent crime with an image of a 'gang member' next to the false statistics. He advocated for instituting stop-and-frisk as a nationwide policy.
His first Attorney General couldn't get confirmed as a judge in 1986 because he was deemed too racist. Unsurprisingly, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III did exactly what one would expect from a white supremacist. Trump's sole criticism of Sessions was that he wouldn't obstruct justice for him.

Just recently Trump awarded the highest civilian honor to Rush Limbaugh, who is very clearly a white supremacist. He shares that award with Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks.

Etc etc.

 

[dwalk31]

original post that started it all




YourRESPONSE


This is where is came in RESPONDING to YOU




your response



my response to you telling me I’m “conveniently ignoring stuff”



your veiled response that racism has been around forever so it’s fine



And this is FINALLY the point where we get to Stephen Miller


But please continue with your with your argument that I came in here outta ****ing nowhere talking about Stephen Miller for no reason whatsoever and you didn’t do anything to bait the conversation. You are absolutely the victim here

You’ve proven my point. Thanks.

 

[junglejim]

You’ve proven my point. Thanks.

if your point was that you deserved a warning for constantly derailing the thread by defending pedos and racist **** then yes, I proved your point.

 

[dwalk31]

What about his "very fine people on both sides" remark regarding the Charlottesville incident, when one side was white supremacists

Why doesn't he fire Stephan Miller when we have so much evidence that he is a racist?

1. I think that was in response to the people who were not members of the white supremacists groups that were there “to preserve history.” For the record, I think the preserving history rhetoric response is completely ridiculous. But I have actually met a black son of the confederacy. Believe it or not smh. I think his denouncing of white supremacy, after that statement, cleared any ambiguity.

2. I don’t know.

 

[Methodical Management]

It’s clear you disagree with my analysis, but it was made in good faith.

We can agree to disagree, respectfully.

You're now engaging in revisionist history to legitimize what was an egregiously captious argument and transparent diversionary ploy.
That you believe this helps your cause demonstrates an almost enviable obliviousness in these grim times.

I believe the poster intentionally worded it that way to make it seem as if Trump hires people who declare they are white supremacists.

Really? You truly thought the problem was that Trump hires people who declare that they are White supremacists, not that Trump is hiring people who are White supremacists and enact polices aligned with White supremacy?

I intentionally ignore slights and jabs in this thread so that it doesn’t devolve into meaningless table pounding.

I'm not asking you to ignore the problem. I'm asking you to stop contributing to it.

Here's a tip, when responding to this:

Why doesn't he fire Stephan Miller when we have so much evidence that he is a racist?

Try focusing on the actual substance of the matter, rather than saying something snarky like,

"Stephan Miller is not a member of the administration."

Yes, we all know that Stephen Miller does not have a smooth-talking clone named Stephan.

Calling attention to the typo as a means of playing "keep away" with the central issue is acting in bad faith.


It's not that difficult.

Again: "In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses[2] and normalizing tangential discussion,[3] whether for the troll's amusement or a specific gain."

Learn it, memorize it, avoid it - and, yes, that goes for everyone.

 

[Mark Antony]

Dope but this was one of several massacres, they should teach them all.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Apparently Yang Gang is still out here in Nevada heavy, trying to get Yang the win in hopes he jumps back in.

While ridiculous, it has given me time to ponder how he could piss me off less.

If Yang where to jump back in or runs in the future he could make his UBI much better by making a few simple changes. The amount should much higher but if he wants to keep it at $1,000, make it a real anti-poverty program.

Make the money not count against people's income when considering them for assistance programs. Someone can still get full SNAP, housing, and other benefits while receiving the money.

Fund it through a land-value tax instead of a consumption tax.

Make the impemention and funding more progressive and you got a winner.

 

[junglejim]

The timing is suspicious as hell to me given it's potential to damage the candidate consistently polling the best against 45 H2H at a time where he's gaining major momentum and headed to front-runner status

The more I think about this the more I wonder if Russia is just saying they are going to help Bernie just to delegitimize the results if he wins. It seems pretty clear he is going to be the nominee so by saying they are helping Bernie and Trump they win either way. Trump wins the left cries foul. Bernie wins the Right cries foul. Win win for them

 

[Wargames]

Honestly the more I think about it the real common factor between Trump and Bernie is that willful or not they are both held up by populism and how unchecked tends to wreck countries.

 

[130122]

The more I think about this the more I wonder if Russia is just saying they are going to help Bernie just to delegitimize the results if he wins. It seems pretty clear he is going to be the nominee so by saying they are helping Bernie and Trump they win either way. Trump wins the left cries foul. Bernie wins the Right cries foul. Win win for them

imo I think "Putin backing Sanders" gives a platform for Trump to deligetimize the Democratic party in his favor. On top of all the 'socialist' stuff bernie is about.

 

[heelsandeers]

Honestly the more I think about it the real common factor between Trump and Bernie is that willful or not they are both held up by populism and how unchecked tends to wreck countries.

I agree... it's the kind of disruption Putin wants. he may not be too picky about whether it’s left or right wing, so long as it is populist and isolationist

 

[RustyShackleford]

Honestly the more I think about it the real common factor between Trump and Bernie is that willful or not they are both held up by populism and how unchecked tends to wreck countries.

Populism born from the poor and middle class wanting a fairer deal doesn't wreck countries. The socialist systems they but in place don't wreck countries. It is the poor governance by proclaimed Socialist politicans that wreck countries. They are either thievies, or too rigid ideologically so the mismanage their economy. Venezuela is a perfect example of both happening at the same time.

Populism born from racial and ethnic grievances definitely wreck countries. Best case scenario people support tearing down their Democratic institutions and social safety nets to inflict damage on minority groups. But end up hurting everyone. Worst case scenario you get ethnic cleansing.

Sure all movements need healthy checks, but Trump's populism is a different beast and way more dangerous.

How I will admit that not matter the variety, populism makes people fall in love with leaders to a unhealthy degree. When that happens, the future of your country really relies on you character of said leader. I think that both Trump and Bernie got supporters that are really lost in the sauce and don't know which way is up. However Trump's base is much larger, and way more dangerous. On the flip side, Bernie movement is making people, most importantly young white men, buy into intersectionality and multiracial coalition building. Frustrated young white men could be taking out those frustrations in much more dangerous and problematic ways.

 

[plansb]

If someone doesn’t out right say “I am a white supremacist” then that person is not a white supremacist.

 

[Belgium]

The more I think about this the more I wonder if Russia is just saying they are going to help Bernie just to delegitimize the results if he wins. It seems pretty clear he is going to be the nominee so by saying they are helping Bernie and Trump they win either way. Trump wins the left cries foul. Bernie wins the Right cries foul. Win win for them

Smart move by the Kremlin. Intelligence officials also testified that Russia is helping Trump's re-election campaign, though that is to be expected of course. In response, Trump lashed out at DNI Maguire for not preventing the testimony. Trump stated that the official never should've said that Russia was interfering to benefit his campaign. In other words he wanted the official to lie about national security threats to protect Trump's ego.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/21/us/politics/trump-and-russia.html
Trump Dismisses Warning of Russian 2020 Meddling as a Democratic ‘Hoax’
The president described the intelligence finding that Russia was meddling in the 2020 election, delivered last week to House lawmakers, as a partisan “misinformation campaign.”


President Trump said Friday that the disclosure by American intelligence officials that Russia was again meddling in a presidential election in his favor was merely another partisan attack against him, continuing a pattern in which he has sought to dismiss warnings of foreign interference in American elections.

“Another misinformation campaign is being launched by Democrats in Congress saying that Russia prefers me to any of the Do Nothing Democrat candidates who still have been unable to, after two weeks, count their votes in Iowa,” Mr. Trump wrote on Twitter. “Hoax number 7!”

Mr. Trump was responding to reports of a classified briefing in which intelligence officials told members of the House Intelligence Committee that Russia was interfering in the 2020 presidential campaign to aid his re-election. Republicans on the committee challenged the conclusions and Mr. Trump berated Joseph Maguire, the outgoing acting director of national intelligence, for allowing the briefing to happen.

Intelligence officials have also concluded that the Russians are seeking to help Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont in the Democratic presidential primaries.

 

[superblytrife]

Wasn’t Bernie’s campaign preferred by Russia back in 2016, per the Mueller Report? Not sure why anyone is surprised that it’s happening again now. And I’m not implying that the campaign accepts it, btw. It just makes sense that Putin would do so, both in 2016 and now.

 

[RustyShackleford]

If someone doesn’t out right say “I am a white supremacist” then that person is not a white supremacist.

I swear these conservatives being sounding like scumbag me when I was 19. Insincere talking points and struggle gaslighting.

Like when I cheated on my girl, and the other chick sent a pic of my asleep in her bed at 4am. I had the audacity to look my girl dead in her eyes and say she had no right to accuse me of cheating just because of that pic. That I left the a house party drunk, and I drove to her place because it was close and I didn't want to hit the highway and put my life and the life of others in danger. So I went there to take a nap and sleep off the liquor. I didn't sleep on the couch because my sciatica.

She didn't believe me, I acted outraged that I don't care about me and other motorist, she still didn't believe me, then I acted just as bewildered as DWalk, then she punched me.

The rest of the story involving me, her, and a unfortunate Xbox gaming console, has already been told.

 

[Belgium]

Only the best people
https://www.propublica.org/article/...reign-politician-the-us-accused-of-corruption
Trump’s New Spy Chief Used to Work for a Foreign Politician the U.S. Accused of Corruption
Richard Grenell did not disclose payments for advocacy work on behalf of a Moldovan politician whom the U.S. later accused of corruption. His own office’s policy says that could leave him vulnerable to blackmail.

President Donald Trump’s new acting intelligence director, Richard Grenell, used to do consulting work on behalf of an Eastern European oligarch who is now a fugitive and was recently barred from entering the U.S. under anti-corruption sanctions imposed last month by the State Department.

In 2016, Grenell wrote several articles defending the oligarch, a Moldovan politician named Vladimir Plahotniuc, but did not disclose that he was being paid, according to records and interviews. Grenell also did not register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, which generally requires people to disclose work in the U.S. on behalf of foreign politicians.

FARA is the same law that Trump’s former campaign manager Paul Manafort and former deputy campaign manager Rick Gates were convicted of violating. (Manafort went to trial. Gates pleaded guilty.)

It’s not clear whether the articles were directly part of Grenell’s paid consulting work for Plahotniuc. Unpaid work could still require disclosures under FARA if it was directed by or primarily benefited a foreign politician, according to Matthew Sanderson, a lawyer at Caplin & Drysdale who advises people on complying with FARA. FARA contains several exemptions, such as for lawyers and businesses, Sanderson said, but none appear to apply to Grenell’s op-eds about Plahotniuc.



Excerpts and annotation:
Grenell's defense is that he promoted and defended a politician from Moldova entirely of his own volition.

 

[Belgium]

Wasn’t Bernie’s campaign preferred by Russia back in 2016, per the Mueller Report? Not sure why anyone is surprised that it’s happening again now. And I’m not implying that the campaign accepts it, btw. It just makes sense that Putin would do so, both in 2016 and now.

Not preferred but yes there was an effort to amplify division related to Bernie's campaign, for example by posing as so-called 'Bernie bros' and subsequently exploiting existing controversies involving the DNC and Bernie's campaign.
The Kremlin specifically sought to help Trump but they also generally like to sow discord.

 

[whywesteppin]

I swear these conservatives being sounding like scumbag me when I was 19. Insincere talking points and struggle gaslighting.

Like when I cheated on my girl, and the other chick sent a pic of my asleep in her bed at 4am. I had the audacity to look my girl dead in her eyes and say she had no right to accuse me of cheating just because of that pic. That I left the a house party drunk, and I drove to her place because it was close and I didn't want to hit the highway and put my life and the life of others in danger. So I went there to take a nap and sleep off the liquor. I didn't sleep on the couch because my sciatica.

She didn't believe me, I acted outraged that I don't care about me and other motorist, she still didn't believe me, then I acted just as bewildered as DWalk, then she punched me.

The rest of the story involving me, her, and a unfortunate Xbox gaming console, has already been told.

waiting for aepps20 to break down the punch.

also

does Tomi know this story????