***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[osh kosh bosh]

It's like when republicans whine about the Obama campaign "smearing" Mitt Romney.

That's politics.

Or when Florida Republican complain that calling "don't say gay bill" is technically not correct.

That's politics.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

The main difference is republicans have a much more reliable and cooperative partisan media.

Democrats have the MSM and progressive media/influencer space.

Mainstream media is not reliable
progressive partisan media is not cooperative.

 

[dragicon]

This thread has really transformed into the most depressing one on NT.

 

[gry60]

yah i think thats giving them too much credit.

ACA vs Obamacare.

When regular people talk about inflation, they mean that the prices are high.

Inflation is the rate of increase of prices over a period of time. It's like using velocity to describe position.

The average person may not be aware of the difference, and when they hear economists talk about inflation being lower from their highest point (which means prices are stabilizing), they think experts are out of touch because the prices they see are still high. To that person, lower inflation means lower prices; it doesn't mean "prices are stable."

 

[osh kosh bosh]

ACA vs Obamacare.

When regular people talk about inflation, they mean that the prices are high.

Inflation is the rate of increase of prices over a period of time. It's like using velocity to describe position.

The average person may not be aware of the difference, and when they hear economists talk about inflation being lower from their highest point (which means prices are stabilizing), they think experts are out of touch because the prices they see are still high. To that person, lower inflation means lower prices; it doesn't mean "prices are stable."

Consertive media is not nearly as powerful in Canada.

I can assure you people hate inflation up here just as much. And don't understand it any better.

 

[rexanglorum]

This speaks to a growing gripe of mine for years and it’s a lot on the left that have contributed to this too. I am sick of progressives that are annoyed by liberals so much and are willing to tear down this whole **** but turn around and handle conservatives with kids gloves seemingly almost outta spite for their beef with liberals (vice versa of course there’s plenty of liberals and left leaning moderate operate that way too)

I’m so tired of the left being obsessed with dunking on people on the left that are like 20% different from them but treat maga people like they are fully reasonable if we just listen to them.

Some of his voters can be persuaded. They were economic free agents and/or people enamored with his celebrity and personality. Many of those people voted for Democrats on the rest of there ballot.

But I think it’s a mistake for people to act like that is the norm. Most Trump supporters are more concerned with social last place avoidance than they are with the DOW Jones. They’d accept a worse economy if it meant the state would validate them in their whiteness or maleness.


As far as liberals versus leftists go. I agree with you about that over the top edgelord leftism. At the same time, liberals need to near about neurodiversity. A lot of liberals and “social educators” are painfully neorotypical supremacists and if you don’t act and speak exactly as they wish, you will get tagged with the label “white fragility” when in reality you’re experiencing severe RSD (rejection sensitivity disorder). It’s fragility but not the kind you all want to think it is. Trauma informed responses and misunderstandings get interpreted as selfishness and ego and we get piled on and further alienated in many cases.

There’s many other cases where liberal neurotypical chauvinism during these last few years in Democratic politics have made a lot of individual leftists feel rejected and unwelcomed by judgmental neurotypical libs.

I’m not done with coalition politics but many neurodivergent leftists are, at least for the moment. I think I need to teach my neurodivergent brethren than neurotypicals mean ~20% of what they say, at least in the context of politics. It will diffuse a lot of misunderstandings in the future.

 

[yobyellav]

Tbh the majority of his voters will still be disconnected with all his amoral acts because the “It didn’t/won’t happen to me” mentality. It’s poignant to remember the only thing they care about is money. His undoing in his first term was covid. Not because millions of Americans died, but because millions lost their jobs and couldn’t afford many essential items. So far it looks like the top weapon to use against him will be his tariff increase, which by the way are still in effect. Inflation is at early 2021 levels today. So if inflation stays the same but the price of goods goes up we can all point to his tariff spike for crashing the economy again.

Wealthy supporters make up a small piece of voters on either side. So if he implements even a fraction of the dumb **** he was campaigning on, most of his supporters will feel it. If prices go up, the upper middle class and certainly anyone under that will feel it.

 

[rexanglorum]

 

[Comparison Ford]

Another yes-man to add to the list:

Trump taps former Rep. Lee Zeldin to lead the Environmental Protection Agency

Trump described Zeldin, a four-term House Republican from Long Island, as “a true fighter for America First policies,” in a statement announcing his pick.

www.nbcnews.com

America is ****in' COOKED. I chose a bad time to get sober.

 

[kdawg]

Another yes-man to add to the list:

Trump taps former Rep. Lee Zeldin to lead the Environmental Protection Agency

Trump described Zeldin, a four-term House Republican from Long Island, as “a true fighter for America First policies,” in a statement announcing his pick.

www.nbcnews.com

America is ****in' COOKED. I chose a bad time to get sober.

maintaining the highest environmental standards, including the cleanest air and water on the planet…

Flint would like a word.

The delusion is strong with these folks. Or maybe it’s just with the people they’re speaking too - probably the hypocrisy that’s strong with them.

 

[rexanglorum]

Twilight of the NIMBY (Published 2022)

Suburban homeowners like Susan Kirsch are often blamed for worsening the nation’s housing crisis. That doesn’t mean she’s giving up her two-decade fight against 20 condos.

www.nytimes.com

The gods demand a sacrifice





Sprinkle the ashes on the foundation of a new 120 story social housing project in Mill Valley.

 

[noskey]

England is looking more appealing by the day.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

because it ignores the landscape having bad actors that have grown their reach and influence. showing up on podcasts is great. retooling messaging is also great. but thats going to be in the face of the fact that large swaths of the country dont trust doctors anymore because of republican bad actors, large swaths of the country dont trust our institutions anymore because of republican bad actors, hell most republican didn't even know about the lengths the person they just elected went through to subvert democracy after he lost an election. Thats what Dems are up against. This message of "Dems need to care about what the people REALLY care about" is great at a high level but if they dont put a spot light on republicans practice of lying and breaking down democracy with impunity, I can see a world where the average american will be completely out of reach and the only way Dems will be able to engage will be inside the "reality" that republicans have crafted.

if this is just how we lick our wounds for the next few months, fine. but if this the only convo were having in 2 years, dems are cooked for good

I think you are grossly underestimating how stupid the average American voter is. Eventually people will be mad that gas is $5-6/gal under Trump (or the following GOP POTUS) and will vote for Dems in the general election in 2028 or 2032.

Financial dips in the economy push people to punish whomever is in charge. Hell, it even happened to Trump in 2020, for example.

We had the biggest financial collapse since the Great Depression in 2008 and Obama immediately won the next general election with a supermajority and was able to pass the biggest healthcare reform we’ve seen in half a century (which the GOP couldn’t even repeal with their own majority in 2017).

If Dems want to win big, they gotta hope that there is another disaster in the next four years. Lucky for them, given the state of the world and the 47th POTUS, I’m willing to bet the next four years are going to be FAR worse than the past four years.

 

[keko jones]

NvM

You covered it well.

 

[Comparison Ford]

England is looking more appealing by the day.

I was in London 2 weeks ago and there was a far-right rally across from the Parliament building.

Saw a few Trump flags and MAGA hats as I was passing through.

 

[yobyellav]

Zeldin plans to use the EPA to unleash economic prosperity. Man, this second trump term gonna be wild.

 

[biggie62]

Zeldin plans to use the EPA to unleash economic prosperity. Man, this second trump term gonna be wild.

Enjoy drinking lead water if you live in a red state.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

England is looking more appealing by the day.

it's not, its like Canada but even worse housing crisis.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

oh word?

 

[keko jones]

 

[dacomeup]

England is looking more appealing by the day.

ENGLAND?! Nah, man

 

[noskey]

it's not, its like Canada but even worse housing crisis.

Worse than Canada? I didn't think that was possible to be honest.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Worse than Canada? I didn't think that was possible to be honest.

yup, its worse because

1. They have less space.
So even tho canada is filled with single family homes, there's still just more space, if you really wanted to you could move to Calgary or Edmonton or something.
there's nowhere to go in the UK.

2. Large nationally protected greenbelt's
.
they have all this protected rural countryside near major cities that you can't build on.
these would be suburbs in canada or america

13% of the land in the country is "greenbelt"

3. They nationalized NIMBYism
The Town and Country Planning Act, basically means owning land, doesn't mean you have the right to build anything.
you have to go through local councils that are NIMBY controlled.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

yes this is my hobby horse.
but it's really true; NIMBYism is a scourge that eats at the heart of multi racial democracy.


its worse than fox news, or whatever conservative propaganda...

it basically validates the conservative worldview, it turns cities in zero sum us vs them situations.
and makes anti immigrant attitudes a rational economic choice.

 

[noskey]

yup, its worse because

1. They have less space.
So even tho canada is filled with single family homes, there's still just more space, if you really wanted to you could move to Calgary or Edmonton or something.
there's nowhere to go in the UK.

2. Large nationally protected greenbelt's
.
they have all this protected rural countryside near major cities that you can't build on.
these would be suburbs in canada or america

13% of the land in the country is "greenbelt"

3. They nationalized NIMBYism
The Town and Country Planning Act, basically means owning land, doesn't mean you have the right to build anything.
you have to go through local councils that are NIMBY controlled.

Point 2 is basically the same problem we have in Portland. Not that protecting nature isn't important, we just have an urban growth boundary that restricts/prohibits building outside of a certain zone, in the city and surrounding suburbs. Really helps NIMBYs here inflate home values.

Point 1 seems obvious. Point 3 is crazy - I obvs haven't done any research into the general housing laws of the UK but that law is as good a jumping off point as any to start researching.