NFL Discussion Thread - Hall of Fame Game: August 3rd

[IATT]

It's a step back.

They could've used that 2nd rounder for Barkley or in an attempt to get Barkley.

or tyler wilson (who could have just gotten screwed by everything that was going on at arkansas).. or if reid wanted a runner, he could have gotten manuel in the 3rd or maybe even 4th

or like was mentioned above, wait until next year's crop

hell, arizona is probably going to release kolb.. he could have easily convinced him to come to KC

 

[dland24]

How on Earth do the Chiefs improve in the short or long term? Alex Smith isn't enough of an improvement over Cassel that it nullifies giving up two second round picks. No way in hell.

First of all, I am not condoning the trade on the Chiefs end in the slightest bit. I think they overpaid for sure. And I cant believe I am defending Alex Smith, but Alex is clearly better than Cassel. The funny thing is, thats not even the correct comparison. The comparison should be Alex Smith vs. Brady Quinn....who replaced Cassel last year if you forgot.

Alex is a definite upgrade. His biggest fault is that he doesnt open up the offense because of his careful approach. The Chiefs biggest problem with the offense last year was turnovers....something Alex is going to help with. You and I both know that a 2nd round pick is a steep price to give up, but they will be upgrading the most important position on the field. They obviously feel its worth it.

And unless there are newer reports than what I read, the second pick given up is conditional. So for it to be a 2nd round pick in 2014, wouldnt that mean that Alex actually played really well for them?

I can't say I agree that Alex is 'clearly' better than Cassel or is a 'definite' upgrade. I'd rather have him than Cassel, sure, but do I think Alex Smith is going to give the Chiefs multiple more wins than Cassel would have? No, definitely not. His flaws are severe and I don't think are correctable. He'll be turning the ball over in an Andy Reid offense, he'll be slow out of the pocket without protection and giving up yards and possessions when caught by defenders. His decision making will still be poor. He won't have the benefit of looking after a neutered playbook, not when Reid gave up a ton to get him and needs to provide results quickly.

Given what the Chiefs gave up, this move was a sidestep or even a step back before it could be considered a step forward.

Fair enough. I dont necessarily disagree with you. I think the fact that the 49ers team was loaded was able to hide a lot of Alex's deficiencies. We'll see how it all works out with Andy Reid. But I certainly would rather have Alex than Cassel at this point. We'll see if the difference is enough to overcome a loss of a 2nd round talent.

 

[deuce king]

No. 49ers already said they wouldn't cut Alex.

Apparently you and the Chiefs bought that lie

Indeed champ.  PT Barnum was right. 

 

[IATT]

Fair enough. I dont necessarily disagree with you. I think the fact that the 49ers team was loaded was able to hide a lot of Alex's deficiencies. We'll see how it all works out with Andy Reid. But I certainly would rather have Alex than Cassel at this point. We'll see if the difference is enough to overcome a loss of a 2nd round talent.

you guys actually ran the football.. a concept that is foreign to andy reid

smith, played in 10 games last season and attempted 218 passes

foles, played in 7 games and attempted 265

vick, played in 10 games last season and attempted 351 passes.. played in 13 games in 2011 and attempted 423.. played in 12 games in 2010 and attempted 372

 

[CP1708]

Reid could make work out of guys like Kolb and Nick Foles, why on earth would you give up a second rounder for Smith when you could take Landy Jones, Barkley, Glennon, Bray, Dysert, etc?

ANY of those options would be better than Smith. All would be longer term guys, you could mold them as you see fit, and if they aren't getting it done, you wait til an elite QB does come thru the Draft pipe.

And if it's true about ANOTHER pick next year, then Reid should just ******g quit now. He's lost his God damn mind.

 

[sequan]

Giants just resigned Will Beatty OT for 5 year deal 38mill 19 mill guaranteed.
Now on to Phillips,Cruz, and Nicks.

 

[bigmike23]

Reid could make work out of guys like Kolb and Nick Foles, why on earth would you give up a second rounder for Smith when you could take Landy Jones, Barkley, Glennon, Bray, Dysert, etc?

ANY of those options would be better than Smith. All would be longer term guys, you could mold them as you see fit, and if they aren't getting it done, you wait til an elite QB does come thru the Draft pipe.

And if it's true about ANOTHER pick next year, then Reid should just ******g quit now. He's lost his God damn mind.

im not even close to a smith fan but if your reid you really want to go in the season with one of those AVG rookie QB's?

the draft class is weak at QB and there ant any FA QB's. Smith in this draft and he is the 1st QB taken

most of us have done nothing but bash how weak this draft class is QB wise and how if anyone is good they wont be good till years down the line cause none are NFL ready. so i can see why Reid picked smith over taken a rookie QB.

Hell maybe Reid getting Fired changes his approach and he runs the ball more

 

[yvespo3]

Vontae Davis said he was with sean smith last night and said he was talking to Kansas City, then says his twitter was hacked and didn't see Sean.
How good is Sean Smith? They saying bucs are going to make a strong run at him

 

[CP1708]

That's a bunch of ********. Last year at this exact same time, Wilson, Barkley and Landry would have all been top 10 picks. They get another year for everyone to nitpick them and suddenly they're all crap. Man **** that.

Russell Wilson wasn't supposed to be nothin neither, he was a third round pick and he worked out fairly well. If you can coach a kid, you can make him better than he should be. Period.

Nick Foles ain't any better than ANY of this year's QB's, and he was decent enough in his first year with Reid. Give him 3 years under Reid, he might make somethin of himself, same with these guys.

People only thing in terms of ceilings now. Never the progression of a QB. RGIII wasn't a top pick 18 months ago, and within a year he went #2 overall and has the whole world by the balls. **** can change that fast.

These guys comin out this year are all gonna have a chance, as long as they don't get drafted by the Jags or the Raiders, they should be fine.

 

[CP1708]

Vontae Davis said he was with sean smith last night and said he was talking to Kansas City, then says his twitter was hacked and didn't see Sean.
How good is Sean Smith? They saying bucs are going to make a strong run at him

He's decent in man to man coverage if your other corner can play it too. He complained in Miami that we played to much zone and he couldn't jam up his guy. When we would match him up one on one with someone (like Fitzgerald last year) he does alright. He won't get picks tho, he drops everything. Our whole entire season changed when he dropped a bunny int from Luck, cost us the game and we tailspun from there. He also gets beat by double moves a lot. I think part of that is the zone reading the QB thing, when he's on his man and his man only, he does better. When he played with Vontae, he was better because Vontae could play man to man same as him, last year with Nolan Carroll we couldn't do that, and Smith didn't like it.

 

[deuce king]

Reid could make work out of guys like Kolb and Nick Foles, why on earth would you give up a second rounder for Smith when you could take Landy Jones, Barkley, Glennon, Bray, Dysert, etc?

ANY of those options would be better than Smith. All would be longer term guys, you could mold them as you see fit, and if they aren't getting it done, you wait til an elite QB does come thru the Draft pipe.

 

How long do you think Andy Reid has to be patient and wait around for results champ??

 

[CP1708]

Reid could make work out of guys like Kolb and Nick Foles, why on earth would you give up a second rounder for Smith when you could take Landy Jones, Barkley, Glennon, Bray, Dysert, etc?


ANY of those options would be better than Smith. All would be longer term guys, you could mold them as you see fit, and if they aren't getting it done, you wait til an elite QB does come thru the Draft pipe.


 

How long do you think Andy Reid has to be patient and wait around for results champ??

As long as he wants. He got the job a few months ago, is there some demand from KANSAS CITY that he must win within 2 years?

You take a rookie, you start him all year, teach him the game, got a franchise LT at the #1 pick to keep him alive, a solid RB to help keep opposing defenses honest, then you start to stock the shelves for him. Get him a safety blanket TE, 2-3 receivers, keep the line right, boom, offense, built up, 2 offseasons. The end, play ball.

Was that difficult?

 

[mmg]

A rookie QB with potential >

Alex Smith, who has already hit his ceiling, which is like everyone else's floor.

Don't come here in justifying this Alex smith trade

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Reid could make work out of guys like Kolb and Nick Foles, why on earth would you give up a second rounder for Smith when you could take Landy Jones, Barkley, Glennon, Bray, Dysert, etc?


ANY of those options would be better than Smith. All would be longer term guys, you could mold them as you see fit, and if they aren't getting it done, you wait til an elite QB does come thru the Draft pipe.


 

How long do you think Andy Reid has to be patient and wait around for results champ??

Reid is getting up there in age but this can end real bad for Chiefs. Alex isn't on a team now that can hide his flaws the way the 9ers did. They're gonna need him to make plays, everything is now on his shoulders. He doesn't have a great running game or great defense to fall back on.

Him and Cassel are like the same QB's. Both of 'em were decent with great teams and garbage w/o them.

A rookie QB with potential >

This.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Did I just read someone say the chiefs don't have a good running game?

I thinks it's crazy if they gave up a 2nd but Chiefs have talent

 

[cash money 1999]

geno smith can make every throw and zips it in tight spaces like a vet...seems to be a gym rat too , chiefs gave up too much. was the market that crazy for alex smith?

 

[deuce king]

As long as he wants. He got the job a few months ago, is there some demand from KANSAS CITY that he must win within 2 years?

I say that because I'm sure Kansas City is or should be thinking about winning now given how bad/awful that division will be going into this year.  San Diego isn't going anywhere, Oakland.........well I think we all know they won't be going anywhere for sometime soon, leaving Denver as the only competition in the division, and that's only if Peyton's arm holds up for the entire year.  With that being said, if your Andy Reid why wait when the Chiefs can at least attempt to make some noise in that division now.

Don't come here in justifying this Alex smith trade

Not really trying to justify the Alex Smith trade, although I appreciate the 2nd round draft picks, "thank you and God bless you Daniel Synder Andy Reid".  As it stands, Smith is better than Brady Quinn. 

A rookie QB with potential >

Any and everybody has POTENTIAL champ, yeah even Matt Schaub if you can believe that.  It's just a matter if a person actually uses that potential or not. 

Him and Cassel are like the same QB's. Both of 'em were decent with great teams and garbage w/o them.

True statement, but we've seen what Cassel can do with that team which is or next to nothing, why not see what Alex Smith can do.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Oh Jamal Charles can kiss those carries goodbye. Reid ain't running the ball.

 

[IATT]

alex smith has been in the league for 7 years.. played in 80 games

andy reid has been a head coach in the league for 14 seasons already

by now, we know the type of QB that alex smith is.. and we should have a pretty good idea of what andy reid will do with the offense

alex smith wont be able to take the 49ers defense with him.. and also wont have jim in KC with him

and the eagles started going down hill when we started losing coaches from his staff.. most importantly jim johnson died.. then you had guys like John Harbaugh, Brad Childress, Steve Spagnuolo, Leslie Frazier, and Ron Rivera hired from his staff

 

[mmg]

Deuce trollin again

 

[SneakerProSr.]

On paper the Chiefs have as much talent as 49ers did the year Harbaugh became coach if they retain Bowe and Albert.

I still think they will suck because I don't think Reid has it anymore but I wouldn't be shocked if they dramatically improved.

 

[va757va]

On paper the Chiefs have as much talent as 49ers did the year Harbaugh became coach if they retain Bowe and Albert.

I still think they will suck because I don't think Reid has it anymore but I wouldn't be shocked if they dramatically improved.

no they dont...the 9ers o and d line aint become dominant overnight....the chiefs aint got that...the chiefs got some flashy skill players...

that 9er team was built perfect for alex smith to dink and dunk and get W's wit that line and that d..this chiefs team aint...chiefs picking in the top 10 again next year...

 

[gmsboy1]

The Chiefs have some pieces. And if they're issue is the OL isn't this a fit because the draft is super-deep with o-linemen + their high pick + plus Andy reid loves drafting olinemen/ dlinemen.

even if reid doesn't run McCluster/Charles will still get touches. Westbrook had alot of receptions still. Depending on what happens with Bowe, Baldwin producing, and Moeaki who hopefully beasts like the season before last their offense could be low key scary.

As long as he wants. He got the job a few months ago, is there some demand from KANSAS CITY that he must win within 2 years?

]You take a rookie, you start him all year, teach him the game, got a franchise LT at the #1 pick to keep him alive, a solid RB to help keep opposing defenses honest, then you start to stock the shelves for him. Get him a safety blanket TE, 2-3 receivers, keep the line right, boom, offense, built up, 2 offseasons. The end, play ball.

Was that difficult?

Way to oversimplify man. If it was that easy how come teams don't just reload in "boom, 2 offseasons" every time? Or why aren't you a GM?

 

[mronegative]

I kinda think the Mike Woodson placebo thing is gonna happen, where the Chiefs actually have a starting QB and a kind of good head coach. And Reid is so ready to be good and prove all the haters wrong. And he's running the ball and managing Smith and making good decisions and feasting on the Chargers and Raiders and Jags and Browns and Bills and they just go on an absolute tear to start the year...

Then the fall.

Probably @Philadelphia.

It would be so sweet.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

On paper the Chiefs have as much talent as 49ers did the year Harbaugh became coach if they retain Bowe and Albert.


I still think they will suck because I don't think Reid has it anymore but I wouldn't be shocked if they dramatically improved.

no they dont...the 9ers o and d line aint become dominant overnight....the chiefs aint got that...the chiefs got some flashy skill players...


that 9er team was built perfect for alex smith to dink and dunk and get W's wit that line and that d..this chiefs team aint...chiefs picking in the top 10 again next year...

Tamba Hali, Derek Johnson and Justin Houston are skill players now?