Finally told my parents I dont believe in god and that im agnostic.

[futuremd]

I always tell people that if they live with their folks then its better to just keep it to yourself. I've seen way too many relationships go south because people never really thought their parents could turn on them like that.

Religion has a massive hold on people in ways that are completely unpredictable.

 

[futuremd]

I guess so I treat politics like you guys treat religion.

  IMO politics are the demise of the world, and not religion like some of you would like to think.  Politics only have as much power over us as we allow it.

exactly how i feel but not trying to get into that.

what i dont understand is why people feel the need to declare themselves athiest or agnostic in the first place.

First of all, do you know realize the impact that religion has on the world at large? Its like you're forgetting all of the innate privilege and access that religion gets without any one asking. 

Have you ever considered that there ARENT religious people? 

For example, there are people who are jailed and killed around the world for simply not believing.

I mean by what standard do they deserve that?

This isn't like saying you don't believe in trees or gravity. Its basically the conclusion that you don't support an idea...isn't that absurd to you?

Plus, I don't like the term and frankly if there weren't religious people, we wouldn't have to come up with a distinction in the first place. 

  if u dont believe in god or dont want to practice a religion than dont practice that religion.  

Well keep it out of our pledge, money, and military. 

you dont have to act all high and mighty like your better than those who do have faith in a higher power.

Uh, when the burden of proof is presented, thats what tends to happen. Sorry, but it is, what it is. 

 religious people may sound delusional at times but they are also usually people with character and probably more willing to help you out when u need it.

If I had the choice, I don't want to be helped by someone who feels that they're being watched. 

Help me because you care, not because you think someone is taking score. 

 ive also noticed that most  people who preach this anti-religion stuff are some of the most selfish individuals i have come across. just my observations.

How would you even measure this?

Its purely subjective and I'd venture to say that you're projecting the image you want to see. 

i was lucky to be raised to believe in whatever i want so i dont know what kind of pressure u were feeling coming from a religious family,

Meaning you never really questioned what you were told except for just clinging to it NOR are you fully aware of the perspective that other people live in.

What about the girl whose parents would kill her for even talking to a boy?

What about the boy who has to attend services for things he knows aren't true, real, or valid?

but what good do u think will come from telling your family your agnostic?  

Them gaining perspective about their son and learning how to come to terms with the fact that things are more diverse than they even imagined.

Your parents aren't too old to learn, nor are they shielded from the responsibility of their beliefs

By what measure do we ever think about OP's wellbeing? 

The only thing I would have wished for him was to wait until he was financially independent. 

---

AGAIN, HE IS NOT A GOD FEARING MAN.....

is this some round about theistic way of saying that he is?

Thats like saying well since i don't believe in the rainbow unicorn, that they do in fact exist. 

 

[captnaj phd]

I had to look and make sure I didn't write your post myself. I, too, believe that nobody can prove anything one way or another. I totally feel you...being black and not believing unconditionally does make you somewhat of an outcast by default. I'm sorry to tell you, but it ain't getting any easier.

Your family is going to tell you you need Jesus, some of your "friends" will say you're going to hell, and there's plenty of females who are going to say dumb **** like "if you can't love God" you can't love me", like you dont know for a fact that they exist. Comes with the territory. All you can do is be as convicted in your "beliefs" as they are theirs...after all, there are thousands of gods in human history, you only believe in one less than them.

Be proud of yourself that you used your own mind to come to your current ethos instead of just accepting what people older than you told you was true. Your family will get over it and accept you as you are...they have to, it's in their contract. One day you'll realize your mental liberty is nothing to be ashamed of, but a gift. 

As an aside, I personally find it interesting that our people are so deeply ingrained in a religion that was forced on us as a lovely welcome gift to the "new world", but that's a whole 'nother thread.

 

[oneforall]

I found perfect solution for every situation in life. This will work with your problem too.

Now everybody's got elders and you should respect um
They been through similar **** but then again you can't let um
Put they hands on ya life like a remote control

 

[futuremd]

I had to look and make sure I didn't write your post myself. I, too, believe that nobody can prove anything one way or another. I totally feel you...being black and not believing unconditionally does make you somewhat of an outcast by default. I'm sorry to tell you, but it ain't getting any easier.

Your family is going to tell you you need Jesus, some of your "friends" will say you're going to hell, and there's plenty of females who are going to say dumb **** like "if you can't love God" you can't love me", like you dont know for a fact that they exist. Comes with the territory. All you can do is be as convicted in your "beliefs" as they are theirs...after all, there are thousands of gods in human history, you only believe in one less than them.

Be proud of yourself that you used your own mind to come to your current ethos instead of just accepting what people older than you told you was true. Your family will get over it and accept you as you are...they have to, it's in their contract. One day you'll realize your mental liberty is nothing to be ashamed of, but a gift. 

As an aside, I personally find it interesting that our people are so deeply ingrained in a religion that was forced on us as a lovely welcome gift to the "new world", but that's a whole 'nother thread.

 

[Jordan8]

I mean this new movement to be agnostic & atheist and telling the world is getting annoying.

Im not religious either but I dont go around with an A on my lapel and I know telling my fam would probably hurt them so whats the point in bringing it up?

Seems like dudes need an identity. Trying too hard to be different.

 

[quik1987]

Good for you, don't be afraid to be yourself

 

[futuremd]

I mean this new movement to be agnostic & atheist and telling the world is getting annoying.

Im not religious either but I dont go around with an A on my lapel and I know telling my fam would probably hurt them so whats the point in bringing it up?

Thing is, offline I don't bring it up...because it CAN be annoying. However, if we're going to talk about it online or if there is going to be a debate, then i'm going to throw in my bit. Period.

If you ask me about it, I'll straight up and tell you what I think, but I won't initiate anything. 

Seems like dudes need an identity. Trying too hard to be different.

Not even that...but the problem isn't that non-believers exist, its that they're not accepted.

People forget that many non-believers, even in America, get kicked out of schools, bullied, and even denied rights by religious citizens who forget how secular this country is SUPPOSED to be. 

Its the theists that overstep their boundaries and frankly, many of them aren't capable of dealing with the fact that non-believers aren't just rolling over to take it any more. Many theists seem to forget that how much access they have in society and privilege they take advantage of without thinking about it. 

Someone suggested that I "should pray" about something and I just told them that "I don't pray, but thanks" and they got super offended.

Its 2012 and I refuse to acknowledge fairy tales just to make others happy. If they don't like it, then thats tough. For far too long have we been shielding our opinions.

I don't even see it as disrespect. I see it as honesty. Frankly, the only reason we want the OP to keep it to himself is for his OWN wellbeing. His parents may or may not change their views, but his wellbeing is at stake if they hold this against him. I've seen families and relationships ripped apart by this stuff...its not a joke for many people. 

People won't respect your stance if you don't inform them of it or even let them know that it exists.

No one is saying to go out of your way to promote being "whatever" but when asked, you should not feel like you have to lie about it just to make others happy. 

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Someone suggested that I "should pray" about something and I just told them that "I don't pray, but thanks" and they got super offended.

My man

 

[DCAllAfrican]

AGAIN, HE IS NOT A GOD FEARING MAN.....

I swear I hate that phrase man. God-Fearing................

 

[futuremd]

AGAIN, HE IS NOT A GOD FEARING MAN.....

I swear I hate that phrase man. God-Fearing................

Yeah...its like "lets be afraid of the thing that supposedly loves us"...nothing says "loving relationship" like fearing your sky-pimp. 

Not only that, I hate when women say "i'm looking for a god-fearing man!"...irks the hell out of me like no other. 

 

 

[truthgetsbusy]

Like a rat to cheese

 

[shorty doo wop]

Like a rat to cheese

 

[Comparison Ford]

Picking up right where he left off...

 

[ricky409]

It's funny, my mom is super religious but me nor my brothers are. I went to church pretty much every Sunday from age 5 to about 16 (if you guys think American blacks are bad, wait til you see how over the top religious Africans are). I told her I was an atheist and she seems to believe its just a phase that I'll get over with age. It hasn't really hurt our relationship at all, it turned out better than expected.

is your famb Christian?

 

[futuremd]

Oh yeah OP. 

There is something I mean to address in the thread title.

You're not JUST agnostic.

Agnosticism and Atheism answer two separate questions.

Agnosticism deals with knowledge

Atheism deals with belief.

To be gnostic is to know something.

To be theistic is to believe something. 

If you're agnostic, you don't know.

If you're atheist, you don't believe.

You can be any combination of the four. 

It seems that you're an agnostic-atheist. You dont know if there is a deity (especially the christian one) but you do not believe the claims that there are.

Here is the fun part. Anyone who says they're a gnostic-theist or gnostic-atheist is ultimately lying.

A. You can't prove that there is the deity you believe in, otherwise we wouldn't be debating this.

B. You can't prove the negative of a deductive claim. 

 

[tr1ll]

Originally Posted by FutureMD

Someone suggested that I "should pray" about something and I just told them that "I don't pray, but thanks" and they got super offended.

Why though? Why you couldn't just say "aight" or something slick, "How about you do that for me?" Why you gotta say "I don't pray", like you don't eat red meat or something. Why do you HAVE to let it be known you're aethist? Thats the stuff that makes people look like douches.

 

[Mound Raised]

Like a rat to cheese

flies to ****...

 

[futuremd]

Originally Posted by FutureMD

Someone suggested that I "should pray" about something and I just told them that "I don't pray, but thanks" and they got super offended.

Why though? Why you couldn't just say "aight" or something slick, "How about you do that for me?" Why you gotta say "I don't pray", like you don't eat red meat or something. Why do you HAVE to let it be known you're aethist? Thats the stuff that makes people look like douches.

What should I have said?

I DO NOT pray...what don't you get?

I'm not about to say "why don't you do that for me"...that would imply that I think it had some impact or actually does something.

I didn't let anything "be known."

I just DONT pray. 

If they get offended at that, thats their fault. 

This is what I'm talking about. People stay wanting to give religion the pass instead of speaking their mind. Mind you, I don't really bring it up...but in that instance when I was asked I simply said, "I don't pray, but thanks." End of story. 

Why should I have to pander to their emotions? Do they not care about how I feel when they're invoking magic to substitute actually trying to help me? 

No one cares when someone offers you a prayer the stop-light, huh? Why am I not free to say that "nah, I don't get down with that, but I appreciate the fact you were thinking about me."

Why can I not be free to say that without worrying about the feelings of people who haven't outgrown magical thinking? 

On top of that...prayer makes no sense. Its like asking an all-knowing, infallible being to temporarily suspend the rules and change its will in YOUR favor. 

You're so worried about me "being nice" that you don't remember what matters to ME in this equation. If I say anything else, then I'd be lying to that person. 

 

[shoelyesses]

i have a ? for the black believers, what is your views on african history/and belief systems and cultures? Do you believe we were ppl of evil and sin before the tri atlantic slave movement, when we gave up our beliefs, faiths, etc culture, teachings in exchange for christianity? Do you guys feel that slavery was ultimately a good thing because it introduced us to modern day christianity, despite the obvious detriment slavery and the results thereafter has crippled and been a stumbling block and stronghold over blacks in america? or do you guys feel america is in a perfect state and the effects of slavery genocide etc have no adverse affects on the conditions currently henders blacks in america?

I guess what im asking is since christianity isnt in the origins of african culture and was introduced to use through slavery. Was slavery a good thing because it brought us christianity? Were africans living in sin and damnation because they didnt accept jesus as their personal savior, since they had no awareness of christianity etc until introduced through slavery? Is the current state of african americans ok cause despite it all we were introduced to a religion that will ultimately if practiced give us eternal life? And if your black and christian why should you complain about the current state of african americans, because ultimately this is a result of being here in america do to slave trade. Do you black christian follow or believe in your ancestory history, culture, and beliefs, even tho it goes against the historical events according to the word of god? what will you tell your kids as far as african culture is concerned? That we were heathens and overall bad ppl until we were enslaved and indoctrined in the life of christ. What are your thoughts and views about our traditional culture, beliefs, and faith system prior to being introduced to christianity?
 

 

[tr1ll]

I didn't let anything "be known."

I just DONT pray.

? By saying "I don't pray" aloud, would that not be letting it known?

Why should I have to pander to their emotions? Do they not care about how I feel when they're invoking magic to substitute actually trying to help me?

To avoid a situation. If you don't have anything against a person and they have a belief thats contrany to your belief and you know that your view will "rustle jimmies", if you will, why even go there? Unless your trying to combat that person for some reason.

All I'm trying to say is, Let em Live Hammer. You and OP want people to let you people be atheist, you want people to let gay people get married, but you dont want to let people be relgious? Whats up with that?

 

[futuremd]

I didn't let anything "be known."

I just DONT pray.

? By saying "I don't pray" aloud, would that not be letting it known?

Did they not ask me a question aloud?

Are you saying I should communicate non-verbally to a verbal question?

I'm not scared of religious people. I'll just tell them the truth when I feel its safe to do so. 

They told me I should pray. I said that I don't pray. 

Wheres the harm? And why do I have to care about their religion more than they do?
Nope. Yet again, if they don't like my answer, don't ask me a question/propose something that I didn't ask for.

They didn't care to remember that i'm not religious, did they? Why should I care about their views on bronze age magic? 

All I'm trying to say is, Let em Live Hammer. You and OP want people to let you people be atheist, you want people to let gay people get married, but you dont want to let people be relgious? Whats up with that?

They don't respect my autonomy by assuming that i'm religious.

Don't you see things that way?

For instance, how do you think the muslim feels when people tell him "Merry Christimas?" 

Why do I have to "avoid confrontation?" Why can't they just understand that there are people who aren't christians? They forget that they aren't the people in the world. 

I'm not religious...so if you propose something religious to me, I'm not obligated nor even slightly compelled to lie to you just to make you feel better. 

 

[knowledgebones72]

When Black people start tryna talk to me about Jesus in a magical mystical "this ghost will solve my problems" way, I just nod and say "true."

I'm Black, but I feel like most religions are just man made ways to control the masses, but I try to keep that to myself because Black folk nowadays are all effed up in the head.

 

[tr1ll]

Did they not ask me a question aloud?



Are you saying I should communicate non-verbally to a verbal question?



I'm not scared of religious people. I'll just tell them the truth when I feel its safe to do so.

You said you didn't make anything known. By saying you don't pray you did make it known. FACT.

No one said anything about you being scared of religious people. Where did that even come from?

They told me I should pray. I said that I don't pray.

Wheres the harm?

They got offended. There was obviously some harm, and I know you know that if offends people

And why do I have to care about their religion more than they do?

They didn't care to remember that i'm not religious, did they? Why should I care about their views on bronze age magic?

They don't respect my autonomy by assuming that i'm religious.

Again, you want them to care about you not being religious, yet you don't want to care about them being religious??

If that isnt hypocrisy..



BTW I have muslim friends that I grew up with, they someone they didn't know told him Merry Christmas, he would just say Merry Christmas back. He never felt the need to let everyone know he was muslim.

Why do I have to "avoid confrontation?"

Because thats mentally healthy people do, religious or not.

I'm not religious...so if you propose something religious to me, I'm not obligated nor even slightly compelled to lie to you just to make you feel better.

You're right. You're also not obligated to let people know you're not religious, is what you're failing to understand. Why you even care about lying, you think you're gonna go to hell or something?

What funny about it all is how you are exactly like a religious person. Someone says something about God, and you cover your ears like "I don't want to hear that evil" and try to tell them your beliefs.

 

[futuremd]

Did they not ask me a question aloud?



Are you saying I should communicate non-verbally to a verbal question?



I'm not scared of religious people. I'll just tell them the truth when I feel its safe to do so.

You said you didn't make anything known. By saying you don't pray you did make it known. FACT.

No one said anything about you being scared of religious people. Where did that even come from?

You don't get it.

I don't walk around with David Hume t-shirt punking people on religion.

However someone suggested to me to pray.

I said I don't pray.

if I say something else, then I'm lying to that person. 

Thats not promoting atheism. Thats me being honest with the person asking me to do something that I don't agree with. 


Thats not hypocrisy.

I wasn't rejecting anything beyond responding to what they proposed to me.

It would have been negative for me to keep pressing that person.

However if you ask me if I'm a christian and ask me to pray, then I'll tell you that I'm not one and I don't pray.

But you would rather me ignore the question and make it seem like I should keep stifling my own opinion because they feel like imposing their religion as a solution. 

BTW I have muslim friends that I grew up with, they someone they didn't know told him Merry Christmas, he would just say Merry Christmas back. He never felt the need to let everyone know he was muslim.

Thats his problem.

if he's not celebrating christmas, that doesn't change what he really is doing.

If you tell me "Happy Ramadan" i'll tell you that I'm not a muslim. 

You clearly told me because you thought I was a muslim, did you not? 

Its about accountability for your beliefs and actions. 
 

If you don't like the response, then thats tough. Don't speak to me about religion and your feelings won't get hurt. 
what? 

If someone suggest for me to pray, then i tell them that I don't pray, then if I said any thing else, i'd be lying to that person.

They assume i'm the type to pray. 

I'm not.

if I don't correct that, then I'm lying.

If you choose not to defend yourself OR correct others assumptions about you, then thats your fault.

I'm not going to shield my thoughts just to make YOU feel better.

If you weren't expecting to hear that I wasn't religious, then don't suggest for me to do religious things. 

What funny about it all is how you are exactly like a religious person. Someone says something about God, and you cover your ears like "I don't want to hear that evil" and try to tell them your beliefs.

False.

I'm around religious people all day. But even when they talk about it, if they're not addressing me then I don't bring it up. 

However if you DO address me, then yes i'll directly respond to you and address the inaccuracy of your points.