Feb 6 - School apologizes for black history lunch menu vol. Annual Black History Month Faux Pas

[zapatohead408]

Ok, but they know its a stereotype and they know stereotypes can be offensive.

I honestly did not know that the "Black people like Fried Chicken and watermelon" stereotype was a bad stereotype. It isn't a compliment or anything positive, but it most definitely isn't negative.

There are good stereotypes too.

 

[Master Zik]

e origins of this stereotype and why it's found offensive.

this causes people who do get offended to think that everyone is racist when most people just have no idea why what they're doing is offensive, and of course getting angry at people rather than taking the time to educate them only escalades the situation for both sides

:x

 

[sea manup]

 

e origins of this stereotype and why it's found offensive.

this causes people who do get offended to think that everyone is racist when most people just have no idea why what they're doing is offensive, and of course getting angry at people rather than taking the time to educate them only escalades the situation for both sides

 i could blame auto correct

but im going to be honest and take the L on this one 

 

[Nouss]

Seaman,

I agree with most of what you said but in what type of positive light do you think black people and watermelons were associated? There isn't one. I find it hard to believe that everyone involved was ignorant to the possibility of a negative reaction.

Also, I think that black student union thing was misquoted. In the unfortunate event that a black student union set that up lol) that still wouldn't change peoples reactions but it would make a your point of education even more valid than it already is.

 

[sea manup]

Seaman,

I agree with most of what you said but in what type of positive light do you think black people and watermelons were associated? There isn't one. I find it hard to believe that everyone involved was ignorant to the possibility of a negative reaction.

Also, I think that black student union thing was misquoted. In the unfortunate event that a black student union set that up (

) that still wouldn't change peoples reactions but it would make a your point of education even more valid than it already is.

personally i always knew there was a negative connotation towards the stereotype, the poster above thought it was a neutral connotation. i dont think i have ever met someone that thought it was positive, just that most people dont understand why its so hurtful. this comes from the origin story fading over time as america as a whole has gotten more and more accepting of black culture over the past 60 years. my guess is black comedians that say things like "why is watermelon and friend chicken so bad? EVERYONE loves to eat that stuff" dont fully understand the history of it which causes them to downplay it. people listen to something like that and think "hey they're right! its really not that bad of a stereotype". of course this isnt the case for everyone but its an example of why someone might think its not so bad.

i have no idea if they knew if it was ignorant or not, i would hope they did because its pretty much common knowledge that its a stereotype. either way im sure there will be a bunch of kids from that school that have no idea why they dont get served fried chicken and watermelon for lunch anymore so i would hope the school or a 3rd party who offers to step in teaches these kids about the history. i doubt everyone will listen or even care but thats out of the educators control

 

[zapatohead408]

Seaman,

I agree with most of what you said but in what type of positive light do you think black people and watermelons were associated? There isn't one. I find it hard to believe that everyone involved was ignorant to the possibility of a negative reaction.

Also, I think that black student union thing was misquoted. In the unfortunate event that a black student union set that up lol) that still wouldn't change peoples reactions but it would make a your point of education even more valid than it already is.

if you didn't know about the history of the stereotype as myself and others didn't know, how is it negative?

 

[Nouss]

 

Which leads us to an interesting thing, intent. You're right fam. I feel that the school had zero intention to cause harm and promote racism. However, it does not excuse them from their actions. There is just too much hate sewed within the foods they were trying to serve. It is the same thing when people put on blackface for halloween. Sure they did not intend anything hateful upon it, they just didn't know. The only difference is that more people know about the history behind blackface which is why it is easier to claim racism.


This is exactly how I feel. Except for blackface. That **** is blatant. blackface doesn't even need spell check.

That crap is taking too far.

 

[thunderchunk69]

Is Black History month limited to Black American history?

word, and if you're dominican, do you celebrate?

whatever NT says you should, they are the ultimate deciders appearently.

 

[Nouss]

if you didn't know about the history of the stereotype as myself and others didn't know, how is it negative?

Your question should be, if you don't know the origin then how can you be offended? Not knowing doesn't make it any less negative.

There are many stereotypes in American culture that I haven't read up on that I know would offend others. How? By the way the stereotypes are delivered (i.e. context, pitch, body language)

But you are correct, ignorance can be passed on to others without ill will or malicious intent.

Which is why I applaud Seaman and Heatpinoyboy because they're going about it the correct way.

 

[Nouss]

I honestly did not know that the "Black people like Fried Chicken and watermelon" stereotype was a bad stereotype. It isn't a compliment or anything positive, but it most definitely isn't negative.

There are good stereotypes too.

It is negative. If your looking at it as just eating a fruit then you're unfortunately, mistaken. And yes there are good stereotypes, that why i said that they can be offensive.

 

[zapatohead408]

if you didn't know about the history of the stereotype as myself and others didn't know, how is it negative?

Your question should be, if you don't know the origin then how can you be offended? Not knowing doesn't make it any less negative.

There are many stereotypes in American culture that I haven't read up on that I know would offend others. How? By the way the stereotypes are delivered (i.e. context, pitch, body language)

yes, that does make a lot more sense, which is the way I felt about it.

Once again, I've honestly never seen anybody mention the stereotype in bad way, but definitely understand why it's wrong now.

I apologize NT, Let's all love each other, ELE.

 

[ice city fc]

 

 

imo getting mad over a ignorant act that happened at a school in a different state than where you live (not talking about you specifically) impacting a bunch of people you dont know is being too sensitive. but thats just me, unless it has to do with someone directly related to me im not going to stress over something on the internet.

looking at that article and coming to the conclusion "all those people are closet racists" is being too sensitive. there is ignorance happening all over the world, theres really no point in getting worked up over something that doesnt effect you, and if you do feel strongly about it then work to fix the problem rather than assuming the worst in people

And reading that article and just assuming that the people didn't do this intentionally is quite naive. Those stereotypes are well known in American history. Assuming that everyone involved just didn't know or expect this reaction is giving one hell of a benefit of a doubt.

And how can you say this doesn't effect us NTers? In our country, there are people who don't find anything wrong with this and deem those offended by it to be too sensitive. That affects our entire society.

there was not a single person in here before the vid was posted that could educate the rest of us of the origins of the stereotype. 

not sure if true but this quote was posted in the thread: "students who were members of the Black Student Union club at neighboring De La Salle High School planned a special lunch to celebrate the month. The menu included fried chicken, corn bread and watermelon."

i highly doubt a black student union club would organize a lunch like this to be intentionally racist, it seems way more likely that they just didnt know any better. 

already a bunch of people in this thread who were saying "its not that bad" watched an educational video detailing the history of the subject and changed their minds. you dont think the same thing can happen to most of these kids and even the schools faculty? 

as i said, yes i would think most people knew of the negative stereotype that links black people to the foods served, but from what i have read and seen there are very few people that know the exact origins and many of the people who previously did not know of the exact origins later changed their minds after learning.

when you call someone a racist it pushes them away and in most cases only reinforces their ignorant views. of course there are people out there that just flat out hate black people, but most people that are ignorant simply dont know any better and giving them knowledge rather than casting them off as racists is the only way to change that.

i have gotten all kinds of racism/ignorance thrown at me when telling americans that i grew up in china, it would be really easy to get mad at how stupid and ignorant these people sound but most of the time i take the time to explain to them why they are wrong.

You don't know what the you're talking about, just because no one wasted their time explaining it to dumb ignorant ***** on this board doesn't mean they couldn't. 

 

[zapatohead408]

 

 

imo getting mad over a ignorant act that happened at a school in a different state than where you live (not talking about you specifically) impacting a bunch of people you dont know is being too sensitive. but thats just me, unless it has to do with someone directly related to me im not going to stress over something on the internet.


looking at that article and coming to the conclusion "all those people are closet racists" is being too sensitive. there is ignorance happening all over the world, theres really no point in getting worked up over something that doesnt effect you, and if you do feel strongly about it then work to fix the problem rather than assuming the worst in people

And reading that article and just assuming that the people didn't do this intentionally is quite naive. Those stereotypes are well known in American history. Assuming that everyone involved just didn't know or expect this reaction is giving one hell of a benefit of a doubt.


And how can you say this doesn't effect us NTers? In our country, there are people who don't find anything wrong with this and deem those offended by it to be too sensitive. That affects our entire society.

there was not a single person in here before the vid was posted that could educate the rest of us of the origins of the stereotype. 

not sure if true but this quote was posted in the thread: "students who were members of the Black Student Union club at neighboring De La Salle High School planned a special lunch to celebrate the month. The menu included fried chicken, corn bread and watermelon."

i highly doubt a black student union club would organize a lunch like this to be intentionally racist, it seems way more likely that they just didnt know any better. 

already a bunch of people in this thread who were saying "its not that bad" watched an educational video detailing the history of the subject and changed their minds. you dont think the same thing can happen to most of these kids and even the schools faculty? 

as i said, yes i would think most people knew of the negative stereotype that links black people to the foods served, but from what i have read and seen there are very few people that know the exact origins and many of the people who previously did not know of the exact origins later changed their minds after learning.

when you call someone a racist it pushes them away and in most cases only reinforces their ignorant views. of course there are people out there that just flat out hate black people, but most people that are ignorant simply dont know any better and giving them knowledge rather than casting them off as racists is the only way to change that.

i have gotten all kinds of racism/ignorance thrown at me when telling americans that i grew up in china, it would be really easy to get mad at how stupid and ignorant these people sound but most of the time i take the time to explain to them why they are wrong.

You don't know what the you're talking about, just because no one wasted their time explaining it to dumb ignorant ***** on this board doesn't mean they couldn't. 

We may be ignorant, but you sir are an idiot.

 

[ice city fc]

Please tell me how I'm an idiot. I'll wait even though I know you wont come back.

You get a pass for being ignorant you're a kid you may or not be genuine but you seem to be making an honest effort to understand. 

 

[zapatohead408]

Please tell me how I'm an idiot. I'll wait even though I know you wont come back.

You get a pass for being ignorant you're a kid you may or not be genuine but you seem to be making an honest effort to understand. 

You didn't make the effort to inform us "ignorant" people. You would rather just post about the "dumb ignorant ***** on this board." Unlike other people who did attempt, and succeed to inform us.

 

[ice city fc]

That would make me uncharitable kid. 

 

[tupac jordan]

You from the town cuz! He's from 408 if you have differences settle it!

 

[Master Zik]

 

[Methodical Management]

this causes people who do get offended to think that everyone is racist when most people just have no idea why what they're doing is offensive, and of course getting angry at people rather than taking the time to educate them only escalades the situation for both sides ​

there was not a single person in here before the vid was posted that could educate the rest of us of the origins of the stereotype. ​

I resent that.  This attitude places the burden SQUARELY on people of color to "take the time to educate" those who would thoughtlessly reproduce hateful and defamatory stereotypes.

That's offensive enough as it is, but especially so when we're already dealing with professional educators - and professional educators tasked with preparing their students to live and work in American society.  

What's more, the video isn't even entirely accurate.  It strikes me as something that a well-meaning 19 year old might get out of "American History 101."  

"Birth of a Nation" wasn't made "by" the KKK.  Such a description marginalizes what was an extremely mainstream film.  Take five minutes to read up on it.  It's based on a Thomas Dixon novel/play written at a time when the KKK bordered on irrelevance.  The film's release inspired the formation of a second KKK in 1915.  Dixon publicly criticized this rendition of the KKK and found it a pale imitation (no pun intended) of the original.  

While it may seem like shorthand, a movie that lionizes the KKK isn't necessarily "the KKK's movie" any more than a war movie glorifying the United States was made by the US Government.  Its success does, however, speak to audiences of the era. 

This was a film that the president of the United States called "like writing history with lightning."  

That's a powerful statement about America in 1915, but it's not "the KKK's movie" and it's NOT the "earliest appearance" of the "fried chicken stereotype."  Not by a long shot. 

Perhaps the video makes this claim because it's literally the FIRST GOOGLE SEARCH RESULT if you type in "fried chicken stereotype," but to say the fried chicken stereotype was manufactured by the KKK is facile.  Functionally, it feeds into this myth that racism is the product of "hardcore racists" (e.g. Klansmen) and not something embedded within mainstream society.  (In other words, you're only a racist if you burn crosses or attend lynchings.) 

We're not talking about something that was invented by the (then nonexistent) KKK in 1915.  Rather, this was a stereotype that likely would've already been familiar to film audiences of that era. 

You'll find it in minstrel shows and fiction published long before 1915, and it's often presented for a different purpose.  Depicting Black men as sexual predators, as in "Birth of a Nation" was used to justify racial terrorism and Jim Crow.  While feasting on fried chicken without aid of utensils may contribute to the notion of Black people as base or "animal", the aggression in this portrayal serves a particular and prescriptive end. 

The old school "Americana" moonshine and magnolia imagery of slaves enjoying watermelon fuels the myth of the contended slave.  This stereotype, in contrast to the malevolent, bestial imagery in Birth of a Nation, portrays slaves as listless, carefree, and indolent.  Stealing chickens, a popular trope in blackface minstrelsy, is decidedly more "lighthearted" than what you'd find in Birth of a Nation - and it serves a different purpose.  To someone looking to prop up and justify slavery, it's helpful to present slaves as one might a domesticated animal.  They are to appear helpless without the proper "guidance" of benign ownership, and lacking in any ambitions that might justify abolition - let alone equal rights.  It's in this vein that you'll find images of Black men, women, and children with surreal grins on their faces, wanting nothing more out of life than the simple pleasures of food, songs, and companionship.  (e.g. "They were all perfectly happy before those socialist carpetbaggers from the North started filling their heads with all these ideas."  Kinda like Phil Robertson's comments.)

Both depictions present Black men as subhuman.  One portrayal resembles that of a mischievous (and dependent) puppy who belongs in the care of his owners, the other a rabid stray dog who must be put down or tamed - restored to its "rightful" subservience. 

These are the stereotypes you're dealing with here.  

What's ironic in all of this is that the same folks saying "oh, it's not that serious I don't know why people are so sensitive" are demonstrating extreme sensitivity to being characterized as racist or ignorant.  Think about that.  You can be subjected to racism and simply call it out as such and wind up branded as "oversensitive" by someone who is themselves sensitive to the sheer allegation of racism.  

So you want people who are subjected to racism to 1) shut up about it and 2) correct everyone else's ignorance?  

Seriously?  Do you find the burden of hearing about racism  to be overly taxing?  How awful for you. 

And this is exactly why I invited those who didn't understand the problem to "read a book."   If you're ignorant, and you're called on it, why is it suddenly everyone else's responsibility to correct that?  You're not doing somebody else a favor by learning about "Black history."  You're learning about the history of your own country.  That's something that you should do for its own sake, not because it's this really hip, progressive thing you're doing to prove how "down" or enlightened you are.  

Even worse is this packaging of gimmicky, marginalized "minority history" as purely consumptive events.  (Literally, in this case.)  It's like "come, I will sit on the couch and you shall regale me with the history of your peoples and share with me your exotic ethnic delicacies!"  Screw that.  Educate yourself.  That's YOUR job.  (And maybe your school's job - which is exactly why this "menu" is especially reprehensible.)  

That attitude is a large part of the reason why these things persist.  If you passively soak up malicious racial stereotypes in popular culture, but stick your fingers in your ears every time someone "complains" about racism without making the effort to LEARN about it, then OF COURSE you're going to wind up mindlessly passing along those same sorry stereotypes to the next generation.  You'll have become infected by racist ideology that you failed to confront.  How vulgar is it to pawn that failure off on people of color?  

I'm a man who grew up in an environment where sexism was part of the popular culture.  That's unfortunate.  However, it has not been the "job" of every single woman I've ever encountered to correct my ignorance.  Anyone who DOES take the time to do such work is to be praised, but, ultimately, my ignorance is MY fault.  

Again, to think otherwise places the burden on the oppressed to educate their oppressor - and it's just another indignity, imposition, and impediment.  It's also an excuse.  You say something sexist, you get called out on it.  You ask "what did I say?  What's so wrong with that?"  You don't get an easy answer.  You storm off and say, "well, I WANTED to learn but she didn't even BOTHER to tell me what I said wrong.  Screw it."  That's leaning on privilege.  It means that you don't feel impelled to change the status quo or reform behavior that may be hurtful to others.  There's no pressure on you to do so unless it is externally applied to you, and in the absence of someone to "correct" you, you are utterly lacking in motivation to address your own ignorance or work for a more just and equitable society for its own sake.  All these "accidentally" bigoted gestures are symptomatic of this underlying unwillingness to sincerely confront your own prejudices.  You want someone else to do it for you.  And if they can't or won't, then you don't care.  It's not "your problem."  

And that IS the problem. 

 

[smangalang]

 

Spoiler: soul burn slow

I resent that.  This attitude places the burden SQUARELY on people of color to "take the time to educate" those who would thoughtlessly reproduce hateful and defamatory stereotypes.

That's offensive enough as it is, but especially so when we're already dealing with professional educators - and professional educators tasked with preparing their students to live and work in American society.  

What's more, the video isn't even entirely accurate.  It strikes me as something that a well-meaning 19 year old might get out of "American History 101."  

"Birth of a Nation" wasn't made "by" the KKK.  Such a description marginalizes what was an extremely mainstream film.  Take five minutes to read up on it.  It's based on a Thomas Dixon novel/play written at a time when the KKK bordered on irrelevance.  The film's release inspired the formation of a second KKK in 1915.  Dixon publicly criticized this rendition of the KKK and found it a pale imitation (no pun intended) of the original.  

While it may seem like shorthand, a movie that lionizes the KKK isn't necessarily "the KKK's movie" any more than a war movie glorifying the United States was made by the US Government.  Its success does, however, speak to audiences of the era. 

This was a film that the president of the United States called "like writing history with lightning."  

That's a powerful statement about America in 1915, but it's not "the KKK's movie" and it's NOT the "earliest appearance" of the "fried chicken stereotype."  Not by a long shot. 

Perhaps the video makes this claim because it's literally the FIRST GOOGLE SEARCH RESULT if you type in "fried chicken stereotype," but to say the fried chicken stereotype was manufactured by the KKK is facile.  Functionally, it feeds into this myth that racism is the product of "hardcore racists" (e.g. Klansmen) and not something embedded within mainstream society.  (In other words, you're only a racist if you burn crosses or attend lynchings.) 

We're not talking about something that was invented by the (then nonexistent) KKK in 1915.  Rather, this was a stereotype that likely would've already been familiar to film audiences of that era. 

You'll find it in minstrel shows and fiction published long before 1915, and it's often presented for a different purpose.  Depicting Black men as sexual predators, as in "Birth of a Nation" was used to justify racial terrorism and Jim Crow.  While feasting on fried chicken without aid of utensils may contribute to the notion of Black people as base or "animal", the aggression in this portrayal serves a particular and prescriptive end. 

The old school "Americana" moonshine and magnolia imagery of slaves enjoying watermelon fuels the myth of the contended slave.  This stereotype, in contrast to the malevolent, bestial imagery in Birth of a Nation, portrays slaves as listless, carefree, and indolent.  Stealing chickens, a popular trope in blackface minstrelsy, is decidedly more "lighthearted" than what you'd find in Birth of a Nation - and it serves a different purpose.  To someone looking to prop up and justify slavery, it's helpful to present slaves as one might a domesticated animal.  They are to appear helpless without the proper "guidance" of benign ownership, and lacking in any ambitions that might justify abolition - let alone equal rights.  It's in this vein that you'll find images of Black men, women, and children with surreal grins on their faces, wanting nothing more out of life than the simple pleasures of food, songs, and companionship.  (e.g. "They were all perfectly happy before those socialist carpetbaggers from the North started filling their heads with all these ideas."  Kinda like Phil Robertson's comments.)

Both depictions present Black men as subhuman.  One portrayal resembles that of a mischievous (and dependent) puppy who belongs in the care of his owners, the other a rabid stray dog who must be put down or tamed - restored to its "rightful" subservience. 

These are the stereotypes you're dealing with here.  

What's ironic in all of this is that the same folks saying "oh, it's not that serious I don't know why people are so sensitive" are demonstrating extreme sensitivity to being characterized as racist or ignorant.  Think about that.  You can be subjected to racism and simply call it out as such and wind up branded as "oversensitive" by someone who is themselves sensitive to the sheer allegation of racism.  

So you want people who are subjected to racism to 1) shut up about it and 2) correct everyone else's ignorance?  

Seriously?  Do you find the burden of hearing about racism  to be overly taxing?  How awful for you. 

And this is exactly why I invited those who didn't understand the problem to "read a book."   If you're ignorant, and you're called on it, why is it suddenly everyone else's responsibility to correct that?  You're not doing somebody else a favor by learning about "Black history."  You're learning about the history of your own country.  That's something that you should do for its own sake, not because it's this really hip, progressive thing you're doing to prove how "down" or enlightened you are.  

Even worse is this packaging of gimmicky, marginalized "minority history" as purely consumptive events.  (Literally, in this case.)  It's like "come, I will sit on the couch and you shall regale me with the history of your peoples and share with me your exotic ethnic delicacies!"  Screw that.  Educate yourself.  That's YOUR job.  (And maybe your school's job - which is exactly why this "menu" is especially reprehensible.)  

That attitude is a large part of the reason why these things persist.  If you passively soak up malicious racial stereotypes in popular culture, but stick your fingers in your ears every time someone "complains" about racism without making the effort to LEARN about it, then OF COURSE you're going to wind up mindlessly passing along those same sorry stereotypes to the next generation.  You'll have become infected by racist ideology that you failed to confront.  How vulgar is it to pawn that failure off on people of color?  

I'm a man who grew up in an environment where sexism was part of the popular culture.  That's unfortunate.  However, it has not been the "job" of every single woman I've ever encountered to correct my ignorance.  Anyone who DOES take the time to do such work is to be praised, but, ultimately, my ignorance is MY fault.  

Again, to think otherwise places the burden on the oppressed to educate their oppressor - and it's just another indignity, imposition, and impediment.  It's also an excuse.  You say something sexist, you get called out on it.  You ask "what did I say?  What's so wrong with that?"  You don't get an easy answer.  You storm off and say, "well, I WANTED to learn but she didn't even BOTHER to tell me what I said wrong.  Screw it."  That's leaning on privilege.  It means that you don't feel impelled to change the status quo or reform behavior that may be hurtful to others.  There's no pressure on you to do so unless it is externally applied to you, and in the absence of someone to "correct" you, you are utterly lacking in motivation to address your own ignorance or work for a more just and equitable society for its own sake.  All these "accidentally" bigoted gestures are symptomatic of this underlying unwillingness to sincerely confront your own prejudices.  You want someone else to do it for you.  And if they can't or won't, then you don't care.  It's not "your problem."  

And that IS the problem. 

 

[Warmachine85]

I know y'all would rather troll this topic but watch this video you might learn something.

sea manup @johnnyderp @Chopper @BLASTERCOMBO @Meek Meals @stayblessed

@airedweezy Warmachine85 @Fresh Out DaBox

You think im trolling? Lol by no means am I. I know where the stereotype comes from. My whole thing is why get mad about it? People are gonna say and do racists things just to rustle jimmies. The simple fact that this is getting this much attention means they won. People really need to stop being so sensitive.

 

[zapatohead408]

Meth, I think you're going a little too deep into this.

Educate ourselves? Hell, my school couldn't educate me on this. The few black people that I know personally sure as hell couldn't tell me about any of this information I've learned. The few supremacists and good 'ole boys I know couldn't tell me about this. You want me to educate myself on FRIED CHICKEN AND WATERMELON? Go educate yourself on Oatmeal. I NEVER had any idea that there was so much behind this stereotype (Which apparently isn't true) that you guys get so offended about. Why the hell would I go around searching up the history about it. In my non racist mind I believed it was just another stupid stereotype, just like the ones every other minority has.

No need for you to be looking down on us. I guarantee you half of the black community doesn't know the background behind this. And to those that do and don't get offended, my hats off to you. I believe that's the way it should be. Why are you going to allow some small, untrue stereotype to get to you.

and before I get banned for "supporting a racial slur/stereotype" or whatever you want to call it, it should be like that for every race. Beat your bad stereotypes and do something in life.

 

[zapatohead408]

I know y'all would rather troll this topic but watch this video you might learn something.

sea manup @johnnyderp @Chopper @BLASTERCOMBO @Meek Meals @stayblessed

@airedweezy Warmachine85 @Fresh Out DaBox

You think im trolling? Lol by no means am I. I know where the stereotype comes from. My whole thing is why get mad about it? People are gonna say and do racists things just to rustle jimmies. The simple fact that this is getting this much attention means they won. People really need to stop being so sensitive.

THANK YOU!

 

[tego calderon el abayarde]

It's not my fault if I'm ignorant so I shouldn't have to do anything about it

 

[zapatohead408]

It's not my fault if I'm ignorant so I shouldn't have to do anything about it

not true.

and yes, I know you will attempt to turn this on me and state how that's what I'm saying, but it's not.