As a black atheist, I like to address questions of why African Americans are so religious

[thorrocksjs]

My problem with our people and religiousness is the fact we use it as a crutch to not better ourselves and procrastinate. I know plenty of folks who think only god can get them a business, and only god can do stop them from being a +@++$. We need to quit using religion for that means. We got to stop letting these pastors pimp our people with these break you down messages.Every sunday he reduces you to nothing and you wonder why you arent getting better .The black church went from being our pillar to being our crutch time for us to stand on our own two feet.

 

[thorrocksjs]

My problem with our people and religiousness is the fact we use it as a crutch to not better ourselves and procrastinate. I know plenty of folks who think only god can get them a business, and only god can do stop them from being a +@++$. We need to quit using religion for that means. We got to stop letting these pastors pimp our people with these break you down messages.Every sunday he reduces you to nothing and you wonder why you arent getting better .The black church went from being our pillar to being our crutch time for us to stand on our own two feet.

 

[tupac jordan]

Originally Posted by ThorrocksJs

My problem with our people and religiousness is the fact we use it as a crutch to not better ourselves and procrastinate. I know plenty of folks who think only god can get them a business, and only god can do stop them from being a +@++$. We need to quit using religion for that means. We got to stop letting these pastors pimp our people with these break you down messages.Every sunday he reduces you to nothing and you wonder why you arent getting better .The black church went from being our pillar to being our crutch time for us to stand on our own two feet.

Just stand up brother! There's brothers that can't stand up cuz they paralyzed.

 

[tupac jordan]

Originally Posted by ThorrocksJs

My problem with our people and religiousness is the fact we use it as a crutch to not better ourselves and procrastinate. I know plenty of folks who think only god can get them a business, and only god can do stop them from being a +@++$. We need to quit using religion for that means. We got to stop letting these pastors pimp our people with these break you down messages.Every sunday he reduces you to nothing and you wonder why you arent getting better .The black church went from being our pillar to being our crutch time for us to stand on our own two feet.

Just stand up brother! There's brothers that can't stand up cuz they paralyzed.

 

[its that dude]

Why the hell would I worship my ancestors for?

they dead...

 

[its that dude]

Why the hell would I worship my ancestors for?

they dead...

 

[i am knowledge]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Tupac Jordan

Ancestor worship is where it's at.

African religions are really interesting. We all have the opportunity to become revered as Gods and spirits ourselves upon death, that I can can live with. Today these precolonial beliefs are dismissed as satanic and "pagan".
    

Anton, I've peeped you in many of these religious threads.  At times you bring thought provoking rhetoric, and other times you are a plain headache

But I've got to ask you a question.  I remember you said in a thread a while ago that your parents were Catholic?  Correct me if I'm wrong.  However, if I am right, do you openly express your anti religious thoughts to them?  And if so, are you as extreme with your parents as you are with us on NT?  How do they take it?

I was raised Baptist, Baptized at around the age of 6.  And actually wanted to be a preacher.  As I got older, and became a more independent thinker I realized a few things:

- A lot of my religious activity when I was young was done because it made my mother and other religious relatives happy. 
- There's a high probability that my religion isn't the "right" religion.
- A lot of what I was taught just does not make sense.
- That I was so indoctrinated into my religion that there is no way that I'll ever abandon it, even being the logical person that I am. 

It's tough

.  If I had to identify myself as anything, I'm Agnostic, but at the end of the day if there was a religious lottery, and everyone had toclaim there religion, I would be a Christian, and hope for the best.

But it's weird coming from a really religious family.  The close ones know that I'm not really in it like that.  However, it's always awkward when a person will talk to me and say something like, "That's nothing but God, can't you see that?"  And I'm like ummmmm yeah

.  I mean, I can't see myself saying, No that's not God, it was hard work, resilience, and sacrifice.

But you know what, with my mother and other extremely religious people, I would never express my doubts and true feelings because I've learned to live with the mindset that God may not really care about me, and may not play a detrimental role in my life.  However, some people need to have that concept of a loving heavenly father who will always help them out of their problems.  I know people who have been through hell and high water, and without the belief that there was a higher power looking out for them, they would have given up a long time ago.

To these people, God is hope, and in some situations, hope is all one can hold on to.  I don't have a right to attempt to take that hope away.

With that said, Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit, all of that may in fact be made up.  However, the belief in those higher powers have had a positive impact on people's lives, because people who believe that there is a higher power ordering their steps, will make decisions and moves in a positive way, which results in a positive outcome.

I'm Black if that matters.

Peace

 

[i am knowledge]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Tupac Jordan

Ancestor worship is where it's at.

African religions are really interesting. We all have the opportunity to become revered as Gods and spirits ourselves upon death, that I can can live with. Today these precolonial beliefs are dismissed as satanic and "pagan".
    

Anton, I've peeped you in many of these religious threads.  At times you bring thought provoking rhetoric, and other times you are a plain headache

But I've got to ask you a question.  I remember you said in a thread a while ago that your parents were Catholic?  Correct me if I'm wrong.  However, if I am right, do you openly express your anti religious thoughts to them?  And if so, are you as extreme with your parents as you are with us on NT?  How do they take it?

I was raised Baptist, Baptized at around the age of 6.  And actually wanted to be a preacher.  As I got older, and became a more independent thinker I realized a few things:

- A lot of my religious activity when I was young was done because it made my mother and other religious relatives happy. 
- There's a high probability that my religion isn't the "right" religion.
- A lot of what I was taught just does not make sense.
- That I was so indoctrinated into my religion that there is no way that I'll ever abandon it, even being the logical person that I am. 

It's tough

.  If I had to identify myself as anything, I'm Agnostic, but at the end of the day if there was a religious lottery, and everyone had toclaim there religion, I would be a Christian, and hope for the best.

But it's weird coming from a really religious family.  The close ones know that I'm not really in it like that.  However, it's always awkward when a person will talk to me and say something like, "That's nothing but God, can't you see that?"  And I'm like ummmmm yeah

.  I mean, I can't see myself saying, No that's not God, it was hard work, resilience, and sacrifice.

But you know what, with my mother and other extremely religious people, I would never express my doubts and true feelings because I've learned to live with the mindset that God may not really care about me, and may not play a detrimental role in my life.  However, some people need to have that concept of a loving heavenly father who will always help them out of their problems.  I know people who have been through hell and high water, and without the belief that there was a higher power looking out for them, they would have given up a long time ago.

To these people, God is hope, and in some situations, hope is all one can hold on to.  I don't have a right to attempt to take that hope away.

With that said, Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit, all of that may in fact be made up.  However, the belief in those higher powers have had a positive impact on people's lives, because people who believe that there is a higher power ordering their steps, will make decisions and moves in a positive way, which results in a positive outcome.

I'm Black if that matters.

Peace

 

[i am knowledge]

Also, I've only read the first and the last page, but I've got more input in regards to why Blacks in America who are descendants of the diaspora still practice a religion that was used to justify their enslavement.

You know the saying, God works in mysterious ways.  Christianity was not always a Western Anglo Saxon religion.  However, some where down the line the religion got bastardized.  Nevertheless it's funny how things worked out.  The same religion that was used to enslave blacks helped the slaves develop a mental endurance to endure such a hard life.

Furthermore, the same religion that was used to enslave Blacks was used to liberate Blacks. 

Some people may look and come to the conclusion that everything eventually came full circle. 

I'm not saying that I believe these things myself, but I know for a fact that a lot of people do.

As I said in a previous post, I was raised Baptist, but I'm fascinated by all religions.  And it's the psychology behind it that really pulls me in.  The brain is a powerful thing, and there is definitely a hypnotic factor involved in the Churches that I've been to.

But what's most interesting to me is that in every single stratified society, the dominant religion supports the stratification.  Those at the bottom will uphold the stratification with hopes that they will have a better life through reincarnation, or in the hereafter.  Crazy I tell you.   

 

[i am knowledge]

Also, I've only read the first and the last page, but I've got more input in regards to why Blacks in America who are descendants of the diaspora still practice a religion that was used to justify their enslavement.

You know the saying, God works in mysterious ways.  Christianity was not always a Western Anglo Saxon religion.  However, some where down the line the religion got bastardized.  Nevertheless it's funny how things worked out.  The same religion that was used to enslave blacks helped the slaves develop a mental endurance to endure such a hard life.

Furthermore, the same religion that was used to enslave Blacks was used to liberate Blacks. 

Some people may look and come to the conclusion that everything eventually came full circle. 

I'm not saying that I believe these things myself, but I know for a fact that a lot of people do.

As I said in a previous post, I was raised Baptist, but I'm fascinated by all religions.  And it's the psychology behind it that really pulls me in.  The brain is a powerful thing, and there is definitely a hypnotic factor involved in the Churches that I've been to.

But what's most interesting to me is that in every single stratified society, the dominant religion supports the stratification.  Those at the bottom will uphold the stratification with hopes that they will have a better life through reincarnation, or in the hereafter.  Crazy I tell you.   

 

[south sole]

 

[south sole]

 

[classy freshman]

bookmarked

 

[classy freshman]

bookmarked

 

[Smorgasbordgie]

nawlinsjunkie wrote:

---

---

AntonLaVey wrote:

---

You literally have to be black to understand why this thread needed to be made. Black people's unrelenting and unquestioned allegiance to the Judeochristian faith is insulting and utterly ridiculous. And even more insulting is Christianity somehow being a yard-stick for Afrocentricity. As a full blooded African this is downright disrespectful to my ancestors who had their roots, traditions and spirituality forcibly stripped away from them. People go to church every sunday and pray to a crucified idol with blonde hair and blue eyes tryna tell me I aint black for being non-religious. EFF OUTTA HERE.

Agreed, and you can apply this to many Latinos as well. A lot of older Mexicans (mostly women) are fanatical when it comes to Catholicism. Now I have 0 problem with someone following a religion but @#$% goes to far when my Mexican friends are looked down upon by their families and considered to be  "ashamed of their backgrounds" because they're not religious, even though their ancestors were clearly FORCED to follow this religion or be persecuted/killed. Religion should have nothing to do with race/ethnicity; they're completely different. 




I can agree with a lot of this. I just think it's unfortunate that our ancestors (various ethnicities) were disengaged from their native faiths/beliefs. I also have a tough time with many Christian, ethnic individuals who look down on those who do not share their same religious views and beliefs. It's almost like they denounce what their ancestors went through or just don't have any knowledge of it, to begin with. All I'll say is that people should respect other peoples religious views (or a lack thereof). Especially those of ethnic groups that have been disengaged from their faith. People have a right to any faith they want, especially those with a broken connection from their own ancestral faith.

 

[Smorgasbordgie]

nawlinsjunkie wrote:

---

---

AntonLaVey wrote:

---

You literally have to be black to understand why this thread needed to be made. Black people's unrelenting and unquestioned allegiance to the Judeochristian faith is insulting and utterly ridiculous. And even more insulting is Christianity somehow being a yard-stick for Afrocentricity. As a full blooded African this is downright disrespectful to my ancestors who had their roots, traditions and spirituality forcibly stripped away from them. People go to church every sunday and pray to a crucified idol with blonde hair and blue eyes tryna tell me I aint black for being non-religious. EFF OUTTA HERE.

Agreed, and you can apply this to many Latinos as well. A lot of older Mexicans (mostly women) are fanatical when it comes to Catholicism. Now I have 0 problem with someone following a religion but @#$% goes to far when my Mexican friends are looked down upon by their families and considered to be  "ashamed of their backgrounds" because they're not religious, even though their ancestors were clearly FORCED to follow this religion or be persecuted/killed. Religion should have nothing to do with race/ethnicity; they're completely different. 




I can agree with a lot of this. I just think it's unfortunate that our ancestors (various ethnicities) were disengaged from their native faiths/beliefs. I also have a tough time with many Christian, ethnic individuals who look down on those who do not share their same religious views and beliefs. It's almost like they denounce what their ancestors went through or just don't have any knowledge of it, to begin with. All I'll say is that people should respect other peoples religious views (or a lack thereof). Especially those of ethnic groups that have been disengaged from their faith. People have a right to any faith they want, especially those with a broken connection from their own ancestral faith.

 

[kilojules64]

Serious question-
Why do other peoples beliefs matter so much to some of you? Does it only matter if they're ignorant/unwilling to accept that other people don't feel the same way? Are you genuinely trying to help them by pointing out the flaws in their logic/lack of logic altogether? Are you just arrogant as hell? (don't be ashamed )
I'm just wondering because I have a lot of opinions that are considered scandalous or taboo or whatever you want to call it, and the gauge on my care-o-meter about other peoples' opinions is usually reading approximately 0

 

[kilojules64]

Serious question-
Why do other peoples beliefs matter so much to some of you? Does it only matter if they're ignorant/unwilling to accept that other people don't feel the same way? Are you genuinely trying to help them by pointing out the flaws in their logic/lack of logic altogether? Are you just arrogant as hell? (don't be ashamed )
I'm just wondering because I have a lot of opinions that are considered scandalous or taboo or whatever you want to call it, and the gauge on my care-o-meter about other peoples' opinions is usually reading approximately 0

 

[dame theory]

Originally Posted by I AM KNOWLEDGE

Also, I've only read the first and the last page, but I've got more input in regards to why Blacks in America who are descendants of the diaspora still practice a religion that was used to justify their enslavement.

You know the saying, God works in mysterious ways.  Christianity was not always a Western Anglo Saxon religion.  However, some where down the line the religion got bastardized.  Nevertheless it's funny how things worked out.  The same religion that was used to enslave blacks helped the slaves develop a mental endurance to endure such a hard life.

Furthermore, the same religion that was used to enslave Blacks was used to liberate Blacks. 

Some people may look and come to the conclusion that everything eventually came full circle. 

I'm not saying that I believe these things myself, but I know for a fact that a lot of people do.

As I said in a previous post, I was raised Baptist, but I'm fascinated by all religions.  And it's the psychology behind it that really pulls me in.  The brain is a powerful thing, and there is definitely a hypnotic factor involved in the Churches that I've been to.

But what's most interesting to me is that in every single stratified society, the dominant religion supports the stratification.  Those at the bottom will uphold the stratification with hopes that they will have a better life through reincarnation, or in the hereafter.  Crazy I tell you.   

See you're the reason I make threads like this...forcing people to think more about the way they live and to justify their way of thinking. Thank you for contributing.
I can't force people to drop their beliefs overnight but seeing new faces in these threads makes me happy to know that people out there are asking themselves tough questions that have plagued man for thousands of years.

In my opinion, there is no god and there never was one. We can go into that more if you'd like.




You're right about the stratification thing. I've seen so many people justify poverty just to say "well they'll get a greater reward in heaven" ...what kinda of BS is that? Totally lunacy. 

 

[dame theory]

Originally Posted by I AM KNOWLEDGE

Also, I've only read the first and the last page, but I've got more input in regards to why Blacks in America who are descendants of the diaspora still practice a religion that was used to justify their enslavement.

You know the saying, God works in mysterious ways.  Christianity was not always a Western Anglo Saxon religion.  However, some where down the line the religion got bastardized.  Nevertheless it's funny how things worked out.  The same religion that was used to enslave blacks helped the slaves develop a mental endurance to endure such a hard life.

Furthermore, the same religion that was used to enslave Blacks was used to liberate Blacks. 

Some people may look and come to the conclusion that everything eventually came full circle. 

I'm not saying that I believe these things myself, but I know for a fact that a lot of people do.

As I said in a previous post, I was raised Baptist, but I'm fascinated by all religions.  And it's the psychology behind it that really pulls me in.  The brain is a powerful thing, and there is definitely a hypnotic factor involved in the Churches that I've been to.

But what's most interesting to me is that in every single stratified society, the dominant religion supports the stratification.  Those at the bottom will uphold the stratification with hopes that they will have a better life through reincarnation, or in the hereafter.  Crazy I tell you.   

See you're the reason I make threads like this...forcing people to think more about the way they live and to justify their way of thinking. Thank you for contributing.
I can't force people to drop their beliefs overnight but seeing new faces in these threads makes me happy to know that people out there are asking themselves tough questions that have plagued man for thousands of years.

In my opinion, there is no god and there never was one. We can go into that more if you'd like.




You're right about the stratification thing. I've seen so many people justify poverty just to say "well they'll get a greater reward in heaven" ...what kinda of BS is that? Totally lunacy. 

 

[dame theory]

Originally Posted by kilojules64

Serious question-
Why do other peoples beliefs matter so much to some of you? Does it only matter if they're ignorant/unwilling to accept that other people don't feel the same way? Are you genuinely trying to help them by pointing out the flaws in their logic/lack of logic altogether? Are you just arrogant as hell? (don't be ashamed )
I'm just wondering because I have a lot of opinions that are considered scandalous or taboo or whatever you want to call it, and the gauge on my care-o-meter about other peoples' opinions is usually reading approximately 0

When religious beliefs are used to write letters like the one that senator wrote in response to someone wanting to take the God out of the pledge of allegiance, or to bring creationism into schools, or to take away things like planned parenthood, or to prevent contraception, or to limit human rights to homosexuals, to hinder the progress of women, to regulate what we eat, to tell us how to dress, to threaten us with eternal torture...thats when it matters.
All the other stuff about pointing out the flaws in religion and faith just comes after that. If someone can still believe in their god after all those fallacies are introduced then they're truly deluded in every sense of the word. I dont know about you, but i don't think we all have to agree on certain issues but i'll be damned if I argue with someone that tells me im doomed to eternal torture for working on Sunday or that some dude walked on water 2000 years ago and hasn't happened since. 

BTW, you're a girl.

 No offense, most girls I know really aren't that willing or able to care about anyone elses opinion 

. Society holds them as the treasure so you all get to express yourselves however you kinda want to and dudes will still flock to you... I'm kidding...kinda...i'm just going off what you've said. 

 

[dame theory]

Originally Posted by kilojules64

Serious question-
Why do other peoples beliefs matter so much to some of you? Does it only matter if they're ignorant/unwilling to accept that other people don't feel the same way? Are you genuinely trying to help them by pointing out the flaws in their logic/lack of logic altogether? Are you just arrogant as hell? (don't be ashamed )
I'm just wondering because I have a lot of opinions that are considered scandalous or taboo or whatever you want to call it, and the gauge on my care-o-meter about other peoples' opinions is usually reading approximately 0

When religious beliefs are used to write letters like the one that senator wrote in response to someone wanting to take the God out of the pledge of allegiance, or to bring creationism into schools, or to take away things like planned parenthood, or to prevent contraception, or to limit human rights to homosexuals, to hinder the progress of women, to regulate what we eat, to tell us how to dress, to threaten us with eternal torture...thats when it matters.
All the other stuff about pointing out the flaws in religion and faith just comes after that. If someone can still believe in their god after all those fallacies are introduced then they're truly deluded in every sense of the word. I dont know about you, but i don't think we all have to agree on certain issues but i'll be damned if I argue with someone that tells me im doomed to eternal torture for working on Sunday or that some dude walked on water 2000 years ago and hasn't happened since. 

BTW, you're a girl.

 No offense, most girls I know really aren't that willing or able to care about anyone elses opinion 

. Society holds them as the treasure so you all get to express yourselves however you kinda want to and dudes will still flock to you... I'm kidding...kinda...i'm just going off what you've said. 

 

[dame theory]

I'll just leave this here...

 

[dame theory]

I'll just leave this here...

 

[hizzle]

Originally Posted by kilojules64

Serious question-
Why do other peoples beliefs matter so much to some of you? Does it only matter if they're ignorant/unwilling to accept that other people don't feel the same way? Are you genuinely trying to help them by pointing out the flaws in their logic/lack of logic altogether? Are you just arrogant as hell? (don't be ashamed )
I'm just wondering because I have a lot of opinions that are considered scandalous or taboo or whatever you want to call it, and the gauge on my care-o-meter about other peoples' opinions is usually reading approximately 0

I don't care so much about other peoples' beliefs when they believe what they believe and leave other people alone. It bothers me when people use beliefs that can't be proven to justify the treatment of other people. For example, gays can't get married because it's against someone's religion. Also, it bothers me that people refuse to acknowledge facts. They're basically saying "I don't care about those facts. I won't even consider them. I've been believing this for a while now so just leave me alone and let me believe it." That's the society we want to live in?