Anfernee Hardaway or Tracy McGrady Vol. #1 in Orlando

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by realtalkjohnny

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by anotherprodigy

Penny...didnt he score 42.0 for a stretch right after Shaq left or right before injury. Penny was an all-around talent. I feel like we got cheated that generation, because him and G-Hill both were too injury prone. Luckily MJ came back.

And TMAC wasn't an all-around player?

nope

How so?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by realtalkjohnny

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by anotherprodigy

Penny...didnt he score 42.0 for a stretch right after Shaq left or right before injury. Penny was an all-around talent. I feel like we got cheated that generation, because him and G-Hill both were too injury prone. Luckily MJ came back.

And TMAC wasn't an all-around player?

nope

How so?

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

the year tmac went to the rockets was 04-05, which was the same year the magic drafted dwight howard. you can say all you want, but everyone in this thread knows that both francis and mobley combined were never as good as tmac, especially with francis being on the downside of his career and mobley.. well just being old...so if tmac was the #2 option, and yao#1, it was in a way like a shaq and kobe combo, in houston. but where kobe could take over a game like that as well as being the #2 option, tmac couldnt. he might have taken over games, but where yao was lacking in certain areas, tmac shouldve filled that gap.

howard went 12 and 10 his rookie year.. yao had 18.3 and 8.4.. so it wouldnt be long for howard to catch up to him..if tmac would have stayed he would've been the #1 option and not#2, every year his scoring went down..

you say yao wasnt used the way divac and miller were used, how does that affect tmac? so what if the rockets played better defense than the magic? you just mentioned that the magic played in the weaker east, then adding a player like howard, hedo and nelson along with tmac would be a great start for any team.

You are confused. Francis was fine on the Magic with Cat. Everyone knows that those two were at their best when they were together... Francis was at his prime age and even Cat had solid seasons after he got shipped from the Magic. Downside my +%*.

Injuries did derail Francis tho at his prime age. But by then, he was a Knick.

Can you stop assuming solid role players will magically appear on the Magic if T-Mac stayed with Howard? Solid role players couldn't magically appear on a better Rockets team by the way until both T-Mac and Yao were "done."

So in a perfect world, sure T-Mac should have stayed on the Magic with Howard... But in a perfect world the Magic would not even be in the position to get that #1 pick if T-Mac had a healthy Hill on the Magic. It is what it is.  

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

the year tmac went to the rockets was 04-05, which was the same year the magic drafted dwight howard. you can say all you want, but everyone in this thread knows that both francis and mobley combined were never as good as tmac, especially with francis being on the downside of his career and mobley.. well just being old...so if tmac was the #2 option, and yao#1, it was in a way like a shaq and kobe combo, in houston. but where kobe could take over a game like that as well as being the #2 option, tmac couldnt. he might have taken over games, but where yao was lacking in certain areas, tmac shouldve filled that gap.

howard went 12 and 10 his rookie year.. yao had 18.3 and 8.4.. so it wouldnt be long for howard to catch up to him..if tmac would have stayed he would've been the #1 option and not#2, every year his scoring went down..

you say yao wasnt used the way divac and miller were used, how does that affect tmac? so what if the rockets played better defense than the magic? you just mentioned that the magic played in the weaker east, then adding a player like howard, hedo and nelson along with tmac would be a great start for any team.

You are confused. Francis was fine on the Magic with Cat. Everyone knows that those two were at their best when they were together... Francis was at his prime age and even Cat had solid seasons after he got shipped from the Magic. Downside my +%*.

Injuries did derail Francis tho at his prime age. But by then, he was a Knick.

Can you stop assuming solid role players will magically appear on the Magic if T-Mac stayed with Howard? Solid role players couldn't magically appear on a better Rockets team by the way until both T-Mac and Yao were "done."

So in a perfect world, sure T-Mac should have stayed on the Magic with Howard... But in a perfect world the Magic would not even be in the position to get that #1 pick if T-Mac had a healthy Hill on the Magic. It is what it is.  

 

[anotherprodigy]

I should have said Penny was a better all-around player. He had the edge in distributing and as far as scoring TMac's edge was minimal if there was even a difference.

 

[anotherprodigy]

I should have said Penny was a better all-around player. He had the edge in distributing and as far as scoring TMac's edge was minimal if there was even a difference.

 

[blacklion23]

Originally Posted by Born illa

A lot of nostalgic NT'ers are gonna say Penny... and a lot of purists will say McGrady...
I'll take Penny. 

This. Plus Penny helped get the team to finals, though they didn't win.

Til this day, I still believe if Nick Anderson hits one of the four free throws the Magic would've won the title. Yeah I know, that was just one game. Just felt like they lost hope and confidence after that.

 

[blacklion23]

Originally Posted by Born illa

A lot of nostalgic NT'ers are gonna say Penny... and a lot of purists will say McGrady...
I'll take Penny. 

This. Plus Penny helped get the team to finals, though they didn't win.

Til this day, I still believe if Nick Anderson hits one of the four free throws the Magic would've won the title. Yeah I know, that was just one game. Just felt like they lost hope and confidence after that.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by anotherprodigy

I should have said Penny was a better all-around player. He had the edge in distributing and as far as scoring TMac's edge was minimal if there was even a difference.

How was Penny more all around?

He played the point so he SHOULD be better in dishing the rock.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by anotherprodigy

I should have said Penny was a better all-around player. He had the edge in distributing and as far as scoring TMac's edge was minimal if there was even a difference.

How was Penny more all around?

He played the point so he SHOULD be better in dishing the rock.

 

[biggie62]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by anotherprodigy

I should have said Penny was a better all-around player. He had the edge in distributing and as far as scoring TMac's edge was minimal if there was even a difference.

How was Penny more all around?

He played the point so he SHOULD be better in dishing the rock.

T-Mac and D is an oxymoron.  I'm sorry I was a T-Mac fan when he was on the Magic but defensively he never did anything.  I grew up watching Penny, he use to match up on MJ and make it harder for him to score.

Plus, Penny shot from the field over 50% twice in his career, something very few guards ever do.  How many times has T-Mac done that? 

 

[biggie62]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by anotherprodigy

I should have said Penny was a better all-around player. He had the edge in distributing and as far as scoring TMac's edge was minimal if there was even a difference.

How was Penny more all around?

He played the point so he SHOULD be better in dishing the rock.

T-Mac and D is an oxymoron.  I'm sorry I was a T-Mac fan when he was on the Magic but defensively he never did anything.  I grew up watching Penny, he use to match up on MJ and make it harder for him to score.

Plus, Penny shot from the field over 50% twice in his career, something very few guards ever do.  How many times has T-Mac done that? 

 

[onetrust]

Originally Posted by bob4rmmarketing

Originally Posted by OneTrust

Originally Posted by bob4rmmarketing

Yep sure do remember. Even more shocked in fact. They should've won that series. And had they pulled a damn rebound before Tim Thomas hit that 3, this wouldn't be in the discussion. But if there is a Kobe or T-Mac thread, I would LOVE to elaborate, but for now, KOBE >> T-MAC.

That didn't happen so it IS a discussion and losing a series up 3-1 isn't as "unbelieveable" as you're making it out to be.  The better team wins majority of the time in a 7 game series, especially when it' a better "team" rather than a ONE man team.

I said it shouldn't happen and I was more shocked when the Lakers lost that series. It's unbelievable to ME, if it happens. In 62 years of the league, 182 teams out of 190 that are up 3-1, win the series. That's 95% Only 8 teams in NBA history have come back to do such a feat. Your up 3-1, you should win the series. If your good enough to win 3 games, your good enough to win 4. It's in the discussion because someone ADDED it in. We're talking about Penny vs. T-Mac, not Penny vs. Kobe or T-Mac vs Jesus.   

Yeah real TEAMS, not ONE man teams.  Show me the stats for a ONE man team up 3-1 and winning it.  Hell, show me the stats of better teams winning 7 game series as opposed to upsets because Orlando definitely was not the favorites coming into the series.  Also, why are you acting like i'm comparing Kobe vs Tmac?  I was just comparing their situations being similar since you made it out to seem like it's remarkable that one couldn't close out a series up 3-1 yet praised someone else a page before as if that person didn't do the EXACT same thing.   And the "it's in the discussion" was in response to your "what if the lakers got the rebound" scenario.

 

[onetrust]

Originally Posted by bob4rmmarketing

Originally Posted by OneTrust

Originally Posted by bob4rmmarketing

Yep sure do remember. Even more shocked in fact. They should've won that series. And had they pulled a damn rebound before Tim Thomas hit that 3, this wouldn't be in the discussion. But if there is a Kobe or T-Mac thread, I would LOVE to elaborate, but for now, KOBE >> T-MAC.

That didn't happen so it IS a discussion and losing a series up 3-1 isn't as "unbelieveable" as you're making it out to be.  The better team wins majority of the time in a 7 game series, especially when it' a better "team" rather than a ONE man team.

I said it shouldn't happen and I was more shocked when the Lakers lost that series. It's unbelievable to ME, if it happens. In 62 years of the league, 182 teams out of 190 that are up 3-1, win the series. That's 95% Only 8 teams in NBA history have come back to do such a feat. Your up 3-1, you should win the series. If your good enough to win 3 games, your good enough to win 4. It's in the discussion because someone ADDED it in. We're talking about Penny vs. T-Mac, not Penny vs. Kobe or T-Mac vs Jesus.   

Yeah real TEAMS, not ONE man teams.  Show me the stats for a ONE man team up 3-1 and winning it.  Hell, show me the stats of better teams winning 7 game series as opposed to upsets because Orlando definitely was not the favorites coming into the series.  Also, why are you acting like i'm comparing Kobe vs Tmac?  I was just comparing their situations being similar since you made it out to seem like it's remarkable that one couldn't close out a series up 3-1 yet praised someone else a page before as if that person didn't do the EXACT same thing.   And the "it's in the discussion" was in response to your "what if the lakers got the rebound" scenario.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by Biggie62

T-Mac and D is an oxymoron.  I'm sorry I was a T-Mac fan when he was on the Magic but defensively he never did anything.  I grew up watching Penny, he use to match up on MJ and make it harder for him to score.

Plus, Penny shot from the field over 50% twice in his career, something very few guards ever do.  How many times has T-Mac done that? 

And Penny strapped up? It was so long ago that you can say whatever and nobody would argue it because nobody ACTUALLY remembers. So I won't speak on Penny's D. I was too young at the time to understand what good defenders did.

Sigh @ you comparing the shooting #'s between the 2.
One played with a dominant big man that commanded a double team.
One was the one that was doubled teammed and carried the offensive load.

Why are we even considering comparing FG% ?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by Biggie62

T-Mac and D is an oxymoron.  I'm sorry I was a T-Mac fan when he was on the Magic but defensively he never did anything.  I grew up watching Penny, he use to match up on MJ and make it harder for him to score.

Plus, Penny shot from the field over 50% twice in his career, something very few guards ever do.  How many times has T-Mac done that? 

And Penny strapped up? It was so long ago that you can say whatever and nobody would argue it because nobody ACTUALLY remembers. So I won't speak on Penny's D. I was too young at the time to understand what good defenders did.

Sigh @ you comparing the shooting #'s between the 2.
One played with a dominant big man that commanded a double team.
One was the one that was doubled teammed and carried the offensive load.

Why are we even considering comparing FG% ?

 

[jaysfiend23]

I loved penny as a kid but as I got older and saw tmac play hard all by himself I would choose tmac. Penny is more of a team player while tmac was a leader. By the looks of the stats t Mac got penny. I feel like tmac was like vc, and ai trying to carry a team all on there own

 

[jaysfiend23]

I loved penny as a kid but as I got older and saw tmac play hard all by himself I would choose tmac. Penny is more of a team player while tmac was a leader. By the looks of the stats t Mac got penny. I feel like tmac was like vc, and ai trying to carry a team all on there own

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Dude must have forgotten about Penny's FG% after Shaq left for LA. 

Injuries tho.

Mind blowing for someone to make a claim that Penny was a better defender than T-Mac. Must have missed out on those Raptors days. And that T-Mac's Magic team ranked higher than Penny's Magic team on defense. But can't compare different eras and assume T-Mac was the main reason as well. Word to Rose. 

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Dude must have forgotten about Penny's FG% after Shaq left for LA. 

Injuries tho.

Mind blowing for someone to make a claim that Penny was a better defender than T-Mac. Must have missed out on those Raptors days. And that T-Mac's Magic team ranked higher than Penny's Magic team on defense. But can't compare different eras and assume T-Mac was the main reason as well. Word to Rose. 

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Dude must have forgotten about Penny's FG% after Shaq left for LA.

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Dude must have forgotten about Penny's FG% after Shaq left for LA.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Dude must have forgotten about Penny's FG% after Shaq left for LA. 

Injuries tho.

Mind blowing for someone to make a claim that Penny was a better defender than T-Mac. Must have missed out on those Raptors days. And that T-Mac's Magic team ranked higher than Penny's Magic team on defense. But can't compare different eras and assume T-Mac was the main reason as well. Word to Rose.

Saying someone is a better defender is one of those statements that you can make and someone really doesn't have concrete proof to refute it. Nobody here remembers Penny as a defender, but we know TMAC wasn't KNOWN as a defender. So it is easy for them to ASSUME Penny was a better defender. Even though they really don't remember.

Which is why I said I won't even speak on Penny's defense. Dudes on here 22-27 talking about Penny's D but had NO CLUE what defense was outside of steals and blocks. So I am calling BS on all of those, "Penny's D was better than TMACs."

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Dude must have forgotten about Penny's FG% after Shaq left for LA. 

Injuries tho.

Mind blowing for someone to make a claim that Penny was a better defender than T-Mac. Must have missed out on those Raptors days. And that T-Mac's Magic team ranked higher than Penny's Magic team on defense. But can't compare different eras and assume T-Mac was the main reason as well. Word to Rose.

Saying someone is a better defender is one of those statements that you can make and someone really doesn't have concrete proof to refute it. Nobody here remembers Penny as a defender, but we know TMAC wasn't KNOWN as a defender. So it is easy for them to ASSUME Penny was a better defender. Even though they really don't remember.

Which is why I said I won't even speak on Penny's defense. Dudes on here 22-27 talking about Penny's D but had NO CLUE what defense was outside of steals and blocks. So I am calling BS on all of those, "Penny's D was better than TMACs."

 

[bob4rmmarketing]

Originally Posted by OneTrust

Originally Posted by bob4rmmarketing

Originally Posted by OneTrust


That didn't happen so it IS a discussion and losing a series up 3-1 isn't as "unbelieveable" as you're making it out to be.  The better team wins majority of the time in a 7 game series, especially when it' a better "team" rather than a ONE man team.

I said it shouldn't happen and I was more shocked when the Lakers lost that series. It's unbelievable to ME, if it happens. In 62 years of the league, 182 teams out of 190 that are up 3-1, win the series. That's 95% Only 8 teams in NBA history have come back to do such a feat. Your up 3-1, you should win the series. If your good enough to win 3 games, your good enough to win 4. It's in the discussion because someone ADDED it in. We're talking about Penny vs. T-Mac, not Penny vs. Kobe or T-Mac vs Jesus.   

Yeah real TEAMS, not ONE man teams.  Show me the stats for a ONE man team up 3-1 and winning it.  Hell, show me the stats of better teams winning 7 game series as opposed to upsets because Orlando definitely was not the favorites coming into the series.  Also, why are you acting like i'm comparing Kobe vs Tmac?  I was just comparing their situations being similar since you made it out to seem like it's remarkable that one couldn't close out a series up 3-1 yet praised someone else a page before as if that person didn't do the EXACT same thing.   And the "it's in the discussion" was in response to your "what if the lakers got the rebound" scenario.

There it goes again..."one man teams". He didn't win these games by HIMSELF. He didn't get to the playoffs by HIMSELF. He wasn't beating the Detroit Pistons by HIMSELF. Though he was the best player on that team doesn't mean he's beating these teams by himself. So let us kill the One Man Team excuse. Of course, the better teams or favorited teams usually win. They should win. But lets not act like the favorited/better team always win because upsets do occur. In 94 the Nuggets knocked off the Sonics. Or when Golden State beat Dallas a few years back. That's two 8th seeds beating 1 seeds. Does it happen often? No. Can it happen? Hell yeah. Should it have happen in Los Angeles, yes. Should it have happened in Orlando. Yes. I've stated several times that I was just as appauled and even more so when the Lakers lost that series. I'm praising that someone else for his career and not one playoff series. That someone else has been out of the first round. I addressed that a few pages back.That goes in general, im not saying it was just you. If you are comparing their' situations, then in essence, you are comparing them in some regard .