Anfernee Hardaway or Tracy McGrady Vol. #1 in Orlando

[willy hitchero]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by Willy Hitchero

OH! Well hell, why are there ten pages then? Silly Nters...  I loved Penny too but T-mac was the next Jor-...well.. the alternative to Kobe. Dude was a savage. Give him the same Shaq penny had and it woulda been a WRAP.

Well we can't predict what TMAC would have done with a Shaq on his side,

Yes we can. It's been proven. A healthy/dominant Shaq and an explosive 2 do wonders. Period. Tmac in his prime was second to only one man...who's second to only one OTHER man. TMAC was a special talent. Not Brandon Roy special neither. Tmac wasn't just good, he was great... like...that Grant Hill "I coulda been even better" great.

Either way you spin it, stupid thread

 

[willy hitchero]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by Willy Hitchero

OH! Well hell, why are there ten pages then? Silly Nters...  I loved Penny too but T-mac was the next Jor-...well.. the alternative to Kobe. Dude was a savage. Give him the same Shaq penny had and it woulda been a WRAP.

Well we can't predict what TMAC would have done with a Shaq on his side,

Yes we can. It's been proven. A healthy/dominant Shaq and an explosive 2 do wonders. Period. Tmac in his prime was second to only one man...who's second to only one OTHER man. TMAC was a special talent. Not Brandon Roy special neither. Tmac wasn't just good, he was great... like...that Grant Hill "I coulda been even better" great.

Either way you spin it, stupid thread

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Again, you can not use a hypothetical statement in an argument. If TMAC had Shaq, we don't know what would have happened. All we could do is speculate, which is not the truth because we could all have different prophecies. So there is no "Proof" in that statement. It isn't as simple as, TMAC did X without Shaq, so he would do Y with Shaq. It doesn't work that way.

I love TMAC but I just don't believe in hypotheticals holding ANY water in these types of discussions.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Again, you can not use a hypothetical statement in an argument. If TMAC had Shaq, we don't know what would have happened. All we could do is speculate, which is not the truth because we could all have different prophecies. So there is no "Proof" in that statement. It isn't as simple as, TMAC did X without Shaq, so he would do Y with Shaq. It doesn't work that way.

I love TMAC but I just don't believe in hypotheticals holding ANY water in these types of discussions.

 

[halfkobe08]

dependin on which era you grew up in i guess, Penny was my second fav player growing up

the stats dont do no justice, he & shaq put orlando on the map
imo that #1 should've been retired

 

[halfkobe08]

dependin on which era you grew up in i guess, Penny was my second fav player growing up

the stats dont do no justice, he & shaq put orlando on the map
imo that #1 should've been retired

 

[rocman23]

Originally Posted by Willy Hitchero

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by Willy Hitchero

OH! Well hell, why are there ten pages then? Silly Nters...  I loved Penny too but T-mac was the next Jor-...well.. the alternative to Kobe. Dude was a savage. Give him the same Shaq penny had and it woulda been a WRAP.

Well we can't predict what TMAC would have done with a Shaq on his side,

Yes we can. It's been proven. A healthy/dominant Shaq and an explosive 2 do wonders. Period. Tmac in his prime was second to only one man...who's second to only one OTHER man. TMAC was a special talent. Not Brandon Roy special neither. Tmac wasn't just good, he was great... like...that Grant Hill "I coulda been even better" great.

Either way you spin it, stupid thread

who do you think he was second to at the time

 

[rocman23]

Originally Posted by Willy Hitchero

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by Willy Hitchero

OH! Well hell, why are there ten pages then? Silly Nters...  I loved Penny too but T-mac was the next Jor-...well.. the alternative to Kobe. Dude was a savage. Give him the same Shaq penny had and it woulda been a WRAP.

Well we can't predict what TMAC would have done with a Shaq on his side,

Yes we can. It's been proven. A healthy/dominant Shaq and an explosive 2 do wonders. Period. Tmac in his prime was second to only one man...who's second to only one OTHER man. TMAC was a special talent. Not Brandon Roy special neither. Tmac wasn't just good, he was great... like...that Grant Hill "I coulda been even better" great.

Either way you spin it, stupid thread

who do you think he was second to at the time

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by xsalvioutlawx

I remember when people used to think T-Mac > Kobe....As soon as Shaq left, that changed. Hmmmm, wonder why?

As soon as Shaq left, Kobe missed the playoffs too and became less efficient. Hmmmm, wonder why? T-Mac also got injured so his prime was on the Magic, not the Rockets. Kobe actually had his prime post Shaq and before Pau so what is there to discuss about that. We know Kobe > T-Mac. Lol.  

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

it's just comparing 2 different types of players. a pg with 2guard skills and a 2guard with pg skills...

Just to be fair, broken down T-Mac starts as PG on the Pistons. Broken down Penny, nope. 

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by xsalvioutlawx

I remember when people used to think T-Mac > Kobe....As soon as Shaq left, that changed. Hmmmm, wonder why?

As soon as Shaq left, Kobe missed the playoffs too and became less efficient. Hmmmm, wonder why? T-Mac also got injured so his prime was on the Magic, not the Rockets. Kobe actually had his prime post Shaq and before Pau so what is there to discuss about that. We know Kobe > T-Mac. Lol.  

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

it's just comparing 2 different types of players. a pg with 2guard skills and a 2guard with pg skills...

Just to be fair, broken down T-Mac starts as PG on the Pistons. Broken down Penny, nope. 

 

[mitchellicious]

If T-Mac played with Shaq. He would've won a championship.

 

[mitchellicious]

If T-Mac played with Shaq. He would've won a championship.

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by Mitchellicious

If T-Mac played with Shaq. He would've won a championship.

BS.... you cant back up that statement so it means nothing... tmac hasnt won much in his career... yeah he was a great player during a couple of years in orlando, but he was dumb for wanting to leave.

  

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by Mitchellicious

If T-Mac played with Shaq. He would've won a championship.

BS.... you cant back up that statement so it means nothing... tmac hasnt won much in his career... yeah he was a great player during a couple of years in orlando, but he was dumb for wanting to leave.

  

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

Originally Posted by Mitchellicious

If T-Mac played with Shaq. He would've won a championship.

BS.... you cant back up that statement so it means nothing... tmac hasnt won much in his career... yeah he was a great player during a couple of years in orlando, but he was dumb for wanting to leave.

  

1. I agree that I think folks should stop making blanket assumptions. He didn't have Big Shaq so there is no need to say what he would have done if he did. Changes nothing.

2. Why do you think he was dumb for leaving?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

Originally Posted by Mitchellicious

If T-Mac played with Shaq. He would've won a championship.

BS.... you cant back up that statement so it means nothing... tmac hasnt won much in his career... yeah he was a great player during a couple of years in orlando, but he was dumb for wanting to leave.

  

1. I agree that I think folks should stop making blanket assumptions. He didn't have Big Shaq so there is no need to say what he would have done if he did. Changes nothing.

2. Why do you think he was dumb for leaving?

 

[willy hitchero]

Originally Posted by rocman23

Originally Posted by Willy Hitchero

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Well we can't predict what TMAC would have done with a Shaq on his side,

Yes we can. It's been proven. A healthy/dominant Shaq and an explosive 2 do wonders. Period. Tmac in his prime was second to only one man...who's second to only one OTHER man. TMAC was a special talent. Not Brandon Roy special neither. Tmac wasn't just good, he was great... like...that Grant Hill "I coulda been even better" great.

Either way you spin it, stupid thread

who do you think he was second to at the time

I like to assume Kobe and Tmac were interchangeable at or around 2002-2003 or so. Kobe kept going up though. T-mac backed out of the race. But hell, at his peak it's a toss up. Real talk. 

Again, you can not use a hypothetical statement in an argument. If TMAC had Shaq, we don't know what would have happened. All we could do is speculate, which is not the truth because we could all have different prophecies. So there is no "Proof" in that statement. It isn't as simple as, TMAC did X without Shaq, so he would do Y with Shaq. It doesn't work that way.

I love TMAC but I just don't believe in hypotheticals holding ANY water in these types of discussions.
I can tell by the tone of your reply that something as statistically monitored as the NBA doesn't leave much room for hyperbole with you....BUT.. let's just say that off the record, we all know it's a "soft fact" that anybody as good as Tracy was teamed with something as dominant as Shaq "automatically" equals a Championship. So there. Qualifiers and accuracy be damned. I said it and I'm still saying it.

 

[willy hitchero]

Originally Posted by rocman23

Originally Posted by Willy Hitchero

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Well we can't predict what TMAC would have done with a Shaq on his side,

Yes we can. It's been proven. A healthy/dominant Shaq and an explosive 2 do wonders. Period. Tmac in his prime was second to only one man...who's second to only one OTHER man. TMAC was a special talent. Not Brandon Roy special neither. Tmac wasn't just good, he was great... like...that Grant Hill "I coulda been even better" great.

Either way you spin it, stupid thread

who do you think he was second to at the time

I like to assume Kobe and Tmac were interchangeable at or around 2002-2003 or so. Kobe kept going up though. T-mac backed out of the race. But hell, at his peak it's a toss up. Real talk. 

Again, you can not use a hypothetical statement in an argument. If TMAC had Shaq, we don't know what would have happened. All we could do is speculate, which is not the truth because we could all have different prophecies. So there is no "Proof" in that statement. It isn't as simple as, TMAC did X without Shaq, so he would do Y with Shaq. It doesn't work that way.

I love TMAC but I just don't believe in hypotheticals holding ANY water in these types of discussions.
I can tell by the tone of your reply that something as statistically monitored as the NBA doesn't leave much room for hyperbole with you....BUT.. let's just say that off the record, we all know it's a "soft fact" that anybody as good as Tracy was teamed with something as dominant as Shaq "automatically" equals a Championship. So there. Qualifiers and accuracy be damned. I said it and I'm still saying it.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I don't believe in using hyperbole. People use it based on the moment. Hyperbole is abused.

But for the sake of DISCUSSION, you can't offer a hypothetical and label words like promise, guarantee, know, as if it is science that those hypothetical outcomes that you are presenting hold any water. Hypotheticals have no place in discussions. That is all I am saying.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I don't believe in using hyperbole. People use it based on the moment. Hyperbole is abused.

But for the sake of DISCUSSION, you can't offer a hypothetical and label words like promise, guarantee, know, as if it is science that those hypothetical outcomes that you are presenting hold any water. Hypotheticals have no place in discussions. That is all I am saying.

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

Originally Posted by Mitchellicious

If T-Mac played with Shaq. He would've won a championship.

BS.... you cant back up that statement so it means nothing... tmac hasnt won much in his career... yeah he was a great player during a couple of years in orlando, but he was dumb for wanting to leave.

  

1. I agree that I think folks should stop making blanket assumptions. He didn't have Big Shaq so there is no need to say what he would have done if he did. Changes nothing.

2. Why do you think he was dumb for leaving?

the year after he left, the magic drafted dwight howard... and no matter how tall and skilled yao was, he was still a soft player. can you imagine, tmac, and howard together? add nelson as a pg, or even steve francis (okay, maybe not) and hedo emerging as a player. but with howard and tmac (still being the top player he once was), that could've been a dynasty right there... all they needed to do was add some solid role players around tmac and howard and you had a contender
  

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

Originally Posted by Mitchellicious

If T-Mac played with Shaq. He would've won a championship.

BS.... you cant back up that statement so it means nothing... tmac hasnt won much in his career... yeah he was a great player during a couple of years in orlando, but he was dumb for wanting to leave.

  

1. I agree that I think folks should stop making blanket assumptions. He didn't have Big Shaq so there is no need to say what he would have done if he did. Changes nothing.

2. Why do you think he was dumb for leaving?

the year after he left, the magic drafted dwight howard... and no matter how tall and skilled yao was, he was still a soft player. can you imagine, tmac, and howard together? add nelson as a pg, or even steve francis (okay, maybe not) and hedo emerging as a player. but with howard and tmac (still being the top player he once was), that could've been a dynasty right there... all they needed to do was add some solid role players around tmac and howard and you had a contender
  

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Year after he left? What? Lol. Someone clearly doesn't know about the history of the Magic management when T-Mac was on the team as well. Bunch of wasted picks and Otis Smith came on board too late. T-Mac wanted Okafor by the way during the draft because he seemed more ready to contribute right away, but the Magic actually did the right thing by getting Howard.

T-Mac did the "right" thing by wanting to get traded to a better team. By the time the Magic and Howard finally made the playoffs, T-Mac was already starting to get into injured mode. 

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Year after he left? What? Lol. Someone clearly doesn't know about the history of the Magic management when T-Mac was on the team as well. Bunch of wasted picks and Otis Smith came on board too late. T-Mac wanted Okafor by the way during the draft because he seemed more ready to contribute right away, but the Magic actually did the right thing by getting Howard.

T-Mac did the "right" thing by wanting to get traded to a better team. By the time the Magic and Howard finally made the playoffs, T-Mac was already starting to get into injured mode. 

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Year after he left? What? Lol. Someone clearly doesn't know about the history of the Magic management when T-Mac was on the team as well. Bunch of wasted picks and Otis Smith came on board too late. T-Mac wanted Okafor by the way during the draft because he seemed more ready to contribute right away, but the Magic actually did the right thing by getting Howard.

T-Mac did the "right" thing by wanting to get traded to a better team. By the time the Magic and Howard finally made the playoffs, T-Mac was already starting to get into injured mode. 

how am i wrong? howards 1st year in the league was the 1st year tmac was with the rockets. if he had stayed it would;ve been a whole lot different.
okafor or not, tmac should have stayed, because having turkoglu and, nelson, along with a young howard would have been a better team than the rockets at that time.. funny that tmac thought that about howard, since he was a highschool player himself when he got drafted..

i dont think tmac did the right thing. i think he should have stayed in orlando, and he will probably think the same was, because in rick adelman's system he wasnt the same player. yeah he had the 13 points in 30 sec. but that had nothing to do with the system he played in. that was just the talent that he had, and that talent would have been put to better use in orlando. especially since yao was option #1(right?) and with howard playing the inside and not demanding the ball, tmac had a defensive minded player that didnt want the ball as much as he did..