Anfernee Hardaway or Tracy McGrady Vol. #1 in Orlando

[thegoldenchild]

perhaps if penny never played we would've never seen a player like tmac... just like how jordan is the evolution of dr j... seeing a 6'7 or 6'8 player with that much handle was rare...back then... now it's almost common

 

[thegoldenchild]

perhaps if penny never played we would've never seen a player like tmac... just like how jordan is the evolution of dr j... seeing a 6'7 or 6'8 player with that much handle was rare...back then... now it's almost common

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

The Magic did NOT beat the Bulls Championship teams is my point. For whatever reason, Jordan not being Jordan (my opinion) or no ho Grant/Rodman (which I forgot about), the Championship Bulls did NOT get beat.

What the hell kind of dumb argument is this? Did you actually read what you wrote? Because it's a paradox. Of course they did not beat the championship Bulls because beating them makes them non-champions automatically. How the hell are they supposed to beat a championship-winning team in the playoffs when after you beat them, they're out of the friggin championship race, so of course you're not a championship team because it's impossible for them to go and win a championship.

It's like if I were to say that none of Jordan's 6 rings came against championship teams. Well of course not, they were denied the friggin championship by Jordan and the Bulls.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

The Magic did NOT beat the Bulls Championship teams is my point. For whatever reason, Jordan not being Jordan (my opinion) or no ho Grant/Rodman (which I forgot about), the Championship Bulls did NOT get beat.

What the hell kind of dumb argument is this? Did you actually read what you wrote? Because it's a paradox. Of course they did not beat the championship Bulls because beating them makes them non-champions automatically. How the hell are they supposed to beat a championship-winning team in the playoffs when after you beat them, they're out of the friggin championship race, so of course you're not a championship team because it's impossible for them to go and win a championship.

It's like if I were to say that none of Jordan's 6 rings came against championship teams. Well of course not, they were denied the friggin championship by Jordan and the Bulls.

 

[onetrust]

Originally Posted by bob4rmmarketing

You mean to tell me, you can't find a way to win 1 game out of 3. 1 game? 

I love how you act like this was soooo shocking but a page before you wrote:

Never could see why people compare Kobe and T-Mac. Especially since the title states Anfernee Hardaway or Tracy McGrady lol...but for the sake of argument, Kobe > T-Mac anyday of the week. Put Kobe in the east back then with no Shaq and he's getting out of the 1st round guaranteed.
You do realize Kobe was ALSO up 3-1 in the playoffs and lost too right?  I'm curious to know if you were "so shocked" as well when Kobe, who you believe is waaaay better than Tmac, couldn't even win being up 3-1.

 

[onetrust]

Originally Posted by bob4rmmarketing

You mean to tell me, you can't find a way to win 1 game out of 3. 1 game? 

I love how you act like this was soooo shocking but a page before you wrote:

Never could see why people compare Kobe and T-Mac. Especially since the title states Anfernee Hardaway or Tracy McGrady lol...but for the sake of argument, Kobe > T-Mac anyday of the week. Put Kobe in the east back then with no Shaq and he's getting out of the 1st round guaranteed.
You do realize Kobe was ALSO up 3-1 in the playoffs and lost too right?  I'm curious to know if you were "so shocked" as well when Kobe, who you believe is waaaay better than Tmac, couldn't even win being up 3-1.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

The Magic did NOT beat the Bulls Championship teams is my point. For whatever reason, Jordan not being Jordan (my opinion) or no ho Grant/Rodman (which I forgot about), the Championship Bulls did NOT get beat.

What the hell kind of dumb argument is this? Did you actually read what you wrote? Because it's a paradox. Of course they did not beat the championship Bulls because beating them makes them non-champions automatically. How the hell are they supposed to beat a championship-winning team in the playoffs when after you beat them, they're out of the friggin championship race, so of course you're not a championship team because it's impossible for them to go and win a championship.

It's like if I were to say that none of Jordan's 6 rings came against championship teams. Well of course not, they were denied the friggin championship by Jordan and the Bulls.

They didn't beat a Bulls team DURING the Bulls run. They beat the Bulls during their 2 off-peak years. Maybe you will understand that. To say they beat the Championship Bulls team is to assume they beat the Bulls while they were the defending champions, which they weren't.

That is the dumb argument that I am trying to promote.

Is that reduced to simplest terms for you?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

The Magic did NOT beat the Bulls Championship teams is my point. For whatever reason, Jordan not being Jordan (my opinion) or no ho Grant/Rodman (which I forgot about), the Championship Bulls did NOT get beat.

What the hell kind of dumb argument is this? Did you actually read what you wrote? Because it's a paradox. Of course they did not beat the championship Bulls because beating them makes them non-champions automatically. How the hell are they supposed to beat a championship-winning team in the playoffs when after you beat them, they're out of the friggin championship race, so of course you're not a championship team because it's impossible for them to go and win a championship.

It's like if I were to say that none of Jordan's 6 rings came against championship teams. Well of course not, they were denied the friggin championship by Jordan and the Bulls.

They didn't beat a Bulls team DURING the Bulls run. They beat the Bulls during their 2 off-peak years. Maybe you will understand that. To say they beat the Championship Bulls team is to assume they beat the Bulls while they were the defending champions, which they weren't.

That is the dumb argument that I am trying to promote.

Is that reduced to simplest terms for you?

 

[snaggykicks]

Originally Posted by CosmicCanon

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Tracy had a higher peek...so I go Tracy.

 

[snaggykicks]

Originally Posted by CosmicCanon

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Tracy had a higher peek...so I go Tracy.

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by snaggykicks

Originally Posted by CosmicCanon

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Tracy had a higher peek...so I go Tracy.

how did he have a higher peak?? since we never actually got to see how good penny could be...yeah he played with shaq, but he could've easily be a lot more important than he was. in the years he was healthy he was already the best pointguard in the league..

i guess we'll never know, who had more talent since penny never got to be the player he was destined to be


  

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by snaggykicks

Originally Posted by CosmicCanon

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Tracy had a higher peek...so I go Tracy.

how did he have a higher peak?? since we never actually got to see how good penny could be...yeah he played with shaq, but he could've easily be a lot more important than he was. in the years he was healthy he was already the best pointguard in the league..

i guess we'll never know, who had more talent since penny never got to be the player he was destined to be


  

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

how did TMAC have a higher peak?? since we never actually got to see how good penny could be...yeah he played with shaq, but he could've easily be a lot more important than he was. in the years he was healthy he was already the best pointguard in the league..

i guess we'll never know, who had more talent since penny never got to be the player he was destined to be


  

I mean since we never got a chance to see how good Penny could be means TMAC has a higher PEAK. Peak is the level that was reached. He isn't saying that TMAC had more POTENTIAL (what they COULD HAVE been). He is saying that TMAC's prime was greater than Penny's prime. Which I agree with.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

how did TMAC have a higher peak?? since we never actually got to see how good penny could be...yeah he played with shaq, but he could've easily be a lot more important than he was. in the years he was healthy he was already the best pointguard in the league..

i guess we'll never know, who had more talent since penny never got to be the player he was destined to be


  

I mean since we never got a chance to see how good Penny could be means TMAC has a higher PEAK. Peak is the level that was reached. He isn't saying that TMAC had more POTENTIAL (what they COULD HAVE been). He is saying that TMAC's prime was greater than Penny's prime. Which I agree with.

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

how did TMAC have a higher peak?? since we never actually got to see how good penny could be...yeah he played with shaq, but he could've easily be a lot more important than he was. in the years he was healthy he was already the best pointguard in the league..

i guess we'll never know, who had more talent since penny never got to be the player he was destined to be


  

I mean since we never got a chance to see how good Penny could be means TMAC has a higher PEAK. Peak is the level that was reached. He isn't saying that TMAC had more POTENTIAL (what they COULD HAVE been). He is saying that TMAC's prime was greater than Penny's prime. Which I agree with.

how so? penny was all nba 1st team 2 times, was mvp of the rookie game, won an gold medal with dream team III, so im not so sure that tmacs peak was higher, it is also not fair since tmac had a lot more healthy years than penny  

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

how did TMAC have a higher peak?? since we never actually got to see how good penny could be...yeah he played with shaq, but he could've easily be a lot more important than he was. in the years he was healthy he was already the best pointguard in the league..

i guess we'll never know, who had more talent since penny never got to be the player he was destined to be


  

I mean since we never got a chance to see how good Penny could be means TMAC has a higher PEAK. Peak is the level that was reached. He isn't saying that TMAC had more POTENTIAL (what they COULD HAVE been). He is saying that TMAC's prime was greater than Penny's prime. Which I agree with.

how so? penny was all nba 1st team 2 times, was mvp of the rookie game, won an gold medal with dream team III, so im not so sure that tmacs peak was higher, it is also not fair since tmac had a lot more healthy years than penny  

 

[bob4rmmarketing]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

You have Penny and his Magic, the ONLY team to beat MJ and the Bulls during their championship runs. Why bring up MJ? He is the standard. If you have the standard saying that you are worth enough to be passed the torch, what is a greater compliment?? You can't get past this point and maybe it's not meant for you to get past.

You are correct, his teams beat the Bulls but they did not beat MJ and the Bulls during their championship runs. They beat them during the Houston Rockets runs. Did you forget that Jordan just came back mid-season and was nowhere near his championship years. So don't exaggerate points. They beat the Bulls though, I won't take that away from them. But lets not act like they beat the BULLS because they damn sure didn't beat the BULLS.

......Just like Xtapolapacetl said, MJ wasn't too far from past lore. The BULLS, or Bulls, lost that series, don't discredit what the Magic did just because Jordan wasn't all there, he was damn near. The ONLY team to beat them during the years when 6 banners were going up.

 

[bob4rmmarketing]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

You have Penny and his Magic, the ONLY team to beat MJ and the Bulls during their championship runs. Why bring up MJ? He is the standard. If you have the standard saying that you are worth enough to be passed the torch, what is a greater compliment?? You can't get past this point and maybe it's not meant for you to get past.

You are correct, his teams beat the Bulls but they did not beat MJ and the Bulls during their championship runs. They beat them during the Houston Rockets runs. Did you forget that Jordan just came back mid-season and was nowhere near his championship years. So don't exaggerate points. They beat the Bulls though, I won't take that away from them. But lets not act like they beat the BULLS because they damn sure didn't beat the BULLS.

......Just like Xtapolapacetl said, MJ wasn't too far from past lore. The BULLS, or Bulls, lost that series, don't discredit what the Magic did just because Jordan wasn't all there, he was damn near. The ONLY team to beat them during the years when 6 banners were going up.

 

[willy hitchero]

Penny. Why? Easy. He was good as @%!@ and got clipped by injury. He was the "number one" guy in Orlando first and got jacked up...then got jacked for his number.. Duh. I hated those swingman jerseys. Dopest uni ever. WRONG NAME ON THE BACK

 

[willy hitchero]

Penny. Why? Easy. He was good as @%!@ and got clipped by injury. He was the "number one" guy in Orlando first and got jacked up...then got jacked for his number.. Duh. I hated those swingman jerseys. Dopest uni ever. WRONG NAME ON THE BACK

 

[bob4rmmarketing]

Originally Posted by OneTrust

Originally Posted by bob4rmmarketing

You mean to tell me, you can't find a way to win 1 game out of 3. 1 game? 

I love how you act like this was soooo shocking but a page before you wrote:

Never could see why people compare Kobe and T-Mac. Especially since the title states Anfernee Hardaway or Tracy McGrady lol...but for the sake of argument, Kobe > T-Mac anyday of the week. Put Kobe in the east back then with no Shaq and he's getting out of the 1st round guaranteed.

You do realize Kobe was ALSO up 3-1 in the playoffs and lost too right?  I'm curious to know if you were "so shocked" as well when Kobe, who you believe is waaaay better than Tmac, couldn't even win being up 3-1.

Yep sure do remember. Even more shocked in fact. They should've won that series. And had they pulled a damn rebound before Tim Thomas hit that 3, this wouldn't be in the discussion. But if there is a Kobe or T-Mac thread, I would LOVE to elaborate, but for now, KOBE >> T-MAC.

 

[bob4rmmarketing]

Originally Posted by OneTrust

Originally Posted by bob4rmmarketing

You mean to tell me, you can't find a way to win 1 game out of 3. 1 game? 

I love how you act like this was soooo shocking but a page before you wrote:

Never could see why people compare Kobe and T-Mac. Especially since the title states Anfernee Hardaway or Tracy McGrady lol...but for the sake of argument, Kobe > T-Mac anyday of the week. Put Kobe in the east back then with no Shaq and he's getting out of the 1st round guaranteed.

You do realize Kobe was ALSO up 3-1 in the playoffs and lost too right?  I'm curious to know if you were "so shocked" as well when Kobe, who you believe is waaaay better than Tmac, couldn't even win being up 3-1.

Yep sure do remember. Even more shocked in fact. They should've won that series. And had they pulled a damn rebound before Tim Thomas hit that 3, this wouldn't be in the discussion. But if there is a Kobe or T-Mac thread, I would LOVE to elaborate, but for now, KOBE >> T-MAC.

 

[everysingletime]

Penny cuz he went to finals.

 

[everysingletime]

Penny cuz he went to finals.

 

[bob4rmmarketing]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by bob4rmmarketing

You mean to tell me, you can't find a way to win 1 game out of 3. 1 game? Scratch all the highlights, all the stats, blah ze blah, win the game, get out of the 1st round, ONCE.

1. I hope your ONCE isn't including his Rocket days because that is not part of the discussion. We are talking about his days in Orlando. Lettuce take a look at the teams that he was supposed to MAGICALLY will his teammates to victory over

01 vs Bucks: Going against TMAC averaged 34, 8, and 7. Going up against Ray, Big Dog, and Sam I am. But lets blame TMAC for that one.

02 vs TMAC went off for 31, 6, and 6. Again, Darrell Armstrong was his team's 2nd leading scorer. If that is happening NO team in this world should be expected to win a playoff series. But again, if TMAC was "really" a great player he would somehow MAGICALLY will this team to victory right? Unfair.

03 vs Pistons: TMAC once again showing he has to carry most of the load (which for whatever reason means he should also blamed LOL). TMAC went off for 32, 5, and 7. Godly numbers again. 2nd leading scorer averaging 14, Drew Gooden. This is the series that people claim HE should have won since he was up 3-1 but do you know that only TWO Magic players averaged double digit points in this series? I don't care what you say, you aren't winning a series with that. Up 3-1 or not. But again, lets blame the person that does the MOST on the team for the loses. Makes sense to me.

04 vs No playoffs. I guess that was his fault too right?

You are essentially asking TMAC to become a practicer of witchcraft if you think he was supposed to win ANYTHING with those teams.

At any point of OUR back and forth have I mentioned anything about him in a Rockets jersey? I am aware that this is the Orlando T-Mac in question.
I was referring to that '03 series. You keep pointing to the second leader scorer and what they're averages were and what not, valid excuses? Maybe. So how did they ever win the 3 games they WON??Obviously they were good enough. But instead you see Chauncey go off with 37 and T-Mac pulling through with 21.

Once again, I did not say it was entirely HIS fault that they didn't win that series, but he's going to get an adequate amount of blame for it. 

Maybe it's selective reading on your part, I don't know lol.