Anfernee Hardaway or Tracy McGrady Vol. #1 in Orlando

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

sure some might be politics, but you cant deny his defensive skills.. anyways...
   
people keep saying tmac was better cause kobe had shaq. do you realize how many shots shaq took the years they were together? means if shaq took half of the shots on offensive, kobe had less shots, yet still averaged almost as much as tmac who could do whatever he wanted on offense with the magic.

What kind of reasoning is that in the bold?

Yeah, T-Mac ain't stupid enough to keep shooting when he's double and triple teamed. And you think the defense was geared at stopping Kobe when Shaq was around?

i meant that, kobe has been a great defender his entire career, but some seasons, other players were better defenders and kobe still got chosen for the defensive 1st team, even when he didnt deserve it. but he got it because he is kobe bryant..

so you believe that when shaq was with the lakers teams never thought that they had to stop kobe from taking over a game? okay, well keep thinking that it wasnt like that..

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by TheGoldenChild

sure some might be politics, but you cant deny his defensive skills.. anyways...
   
people keep saying tmac was better cause kobe had shaq. do you realize how many shots shaq took the years they were together? means if shaq took half of the shots on offensive, kobe had less shots, yet still averaged almost as much as tmac who could do whatever he wanted on offense with the magic.

What kind of reasoning is that in the bold?

Yeah, T-Mac ain't stupid enough to keep shooting when he's double and triple teamed. And you think the defense was geared at stopping Kobe when Shaq was around?

i meant that, kobe has been a great defender his entire career, but some seasons, other players were better defenders and kobe still got chosen for the defensive 1st team, even when he didnt deserve it. but he got it because he is kobe bryant..

so you believe that when shaq was with the lakers teams never thought that they had to stop kobe from taking over a game? okay, well keep thinking that it wasnt like that..

 

[MIKE LOWERY]

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by Ben Roethlisberger

And T-Mac was just as good as Kobe MAYBE on the offensive end.. but T-Mac played no defense. Kobe would drop 30 on you and shut down your best player. PLUS he put up the same numbers T-Mac did WHILE sharing the ball with Shaq.

Having Shaq is a gift and a curse. We all know how Kobe dealt with that situation. Funny how Kobe stopped playing that intense defense when Shaq was gone too. 

I'm sorry, but he brought up Kobe. Not me.

Something these lames never bring up.

It's easy to gamble on the perimeter when you have the biggest N' in the NBA behind you.


"But he's made 10 All Nba defense" blah blah blah.......................just like Derek Jeter racks up gold gloves.

 

[MIKE LOWERY]

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by Ben Roethlisberger

And T-Mac was just as good as Kobe MAYBE on the offensive end.. but T-Mac played no defense. Kobe would drop 30 on you and shut down your best player. PLUS he put up the same numbers T-Mac did WHILE sharing the ball with Shaq.

Having Shaq is a gift and a curse. We all know how Kobe dealt with that situation. Funny how Kobe stopped playing that intense defense when Shaq was gone too. 

I'm sorry, but he brought up Kobe. Not me.

Something these lames never bring up.

It's easy to gamble on the perimeter when you have the biggest N' in the NBA behind you.


"But he's made 10 All Nba defense" blah blah blah.......................just like Derek Jeter racks up gold gloves.

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by Chuck Finster

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by Ben Roethlisberger

And T-Mac was just as good as Kobe MAYBE on the offensive end.. but T-Mac played no defense. Kobe would drop 30 on you and shut down your best player. PLUS he put up the same numbers T-Mac did WHILE sharing the ball with Shaq.

Having Shaq is a gift and a curse. We all know how Kobe dealt with that situation. Funny how Kobe stopped playing that intense defense when Shaq was gone too. 

I'm sorry, but he brought up Kobe. Not me.

Something these lames never bring up.

It's easy to gamble on the perimeter when you have the biggest N' in the NBA behind you.


"But he's made 10 All Nba defense" blah blah blah.......................just like Derek Jeter racks up gold gloves.

having shaq in the middle has nothing to do with gambling for steals. where kobe plays defense on the wing, if he gambles it leaves a huge gap, and if shaq is in the paint he'll be too late. so having shaq behind kobe, doesnt matter if you gamble for steals.

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by Chuck Finster

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by Ben Roethlisberger

And T-Mac was just as good as Kobe MAYBE on the offensive end.. but T-Mac played no defense. Kobe would drop 30 on you and shut down your best player. PLUS he put up the same numbers T-Mac did WHILE sharing the ball with Shaq.

Having Shaq is a gift and a curse. We all know how Kobe dealt with that situation. Funny how Kobe stopped playing that intense defense when Shaq was gone too. 

I'm sorry, but he brought up Kobe. Not me.

Something these lames never bring up.

It's easy to gamble on the perimeter when you have the biggest N' in the NBA behind you.


"But he's made 10 All Nba defense" blah blah blah.......................just like Derek Jeter racks up gold gloves.

having shaq in the middle has nothing to do with gambling for steals. where kobe plays defense on the wing, if he gambles it leaves a huge gap, and if shaq is in the paint he'll be too late. so having shaq behind kobe, doesnt matter if you gamble for steals.

 

[Deleted member 38182]

^You must not have ever played with any big guys in your life

Anytime you have a safety blanket behind you, in a big guy, you take much greater chances and gambles because you know that big man is back there and can easily contest or defend a shot if you get burned. Basic basketball.

 

[Deleted member 38182]

^You must not have ever played with any big guys in your life

Anytime you have a safety blanket behind you, in a big guy, you take much greater chances and gambles because you know that big man is back there and can easily contest or defend a shot if you get burned. Basic basketball.

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by rck2sactown

^You must not have ever played with any big guys in your life

Anytime you have a safety blanket behind you, in a big guy, you take much greater chances and gambles because you know that big man is back there and can easily contest or defend a shot if you get burned. Basic basketball.

BS... besides it's not the center that is always gonna back you up, because the gap between the paint and the 3 point line is way too big to cross, if you gamble for a steal. and also it's not always the center that will be behind you, depending if you are playing on the other side of the ball, which means you will have a power forward backing you up.

and you dont take chances or gamble for steals, because once you do that the entire defense collapses, your back up will have to step up, even though he will be too late, the other side either forward or center has to drop and the other wing will also have to back off his man and go deeper in the paint. help the helper..

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by rck2sactown

^You must not have ever played with any big guys in your life

Anytime you have a safety blanket behind you, in a big guy, you take much greater chances and gambles because you know that big man is back there and can easily contest or defend a shot if you get burned. Basic basketball.

BS... besides it's not the center that is always gonna back you up, because the gap between the paint and the 3 point line is way too big to cross, if you gamble for a steal. and also it's not always the center that will be behind you, depending if you are playing on the other side of the ball, which means you will have a power forward backing you up.

and you dont take chances or gamble for steals, because once you do that the entire defense collapses, your back up will have to step up, even though he will be too late, the other side either forward or center has to drop and the other wing will also have to back off his man and go deeper in the paint. help the helper..

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by bob4rmmarketing

With that said, I'm taking Penny Hardaway over T-Mac. Penny played in the East when it actually meant something. Bulls, Heat, Knicks. T-Mac played in the East when the only team worth watching besides T-Mac is the 76ers mainly in part of A.I. Though I give T-Mac the athleticism over Penny, that's all I give him. A lot of people are looking at PPG and saying, "Tmac" but they're not looking at everything. T-Mac never was a good defender, and he didn't seem like he was working to improve, just going off of raw talent, which he had. Penny always was super humble and seemed like he wanted to be a better basketball player. Injuries robbed them both so we won't ever get to see how good each might've been. T-Mac was a beast, but I'm going with Penny.

1. How can you penalize TMAC for the era that he played in?
2. Penny played defense?
3. Nobody is JUST looking at PPG for TMAC, do you see how well rounded his stats were? Considering he had NO help? How was Penny more well rounded?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by bob4rmmarketing

With that said, I'm taking Penny Hardaway over T-Mac. Penny played in the East when it actually meant something. Bulls, Heat, Knicks. T-Mac played in the East when the only team worth watching besides T-Mac is the 76ers mainly in part of A.I. Though I give T-Mac the athleticism over Penny, that's all I give him. A lot of people are looking at PPG and saying, "Tmac" but they're not looking at everything. T-Mac never was a good defender, and he didn't seem like he was working to improve, just going off of raw talent, which he had. Penny always was super humble and seemed like he wanted to be a better basketball player. Injuries robbed them both so we won't ever get to see how good each might've been. T-Mac was a beast, but I'm going with Penny.

1. How can you penalize TMAC for the era that he played in?
2. Penny played defense?
3. Nobody is JUST looking at PPG for TMAC, do you see how well rounded his stats were? Considering he had NO help? How was Penny more well rounded?

 

[MajinZuub]

Of course Kobe had to be brought up

 

[MajinZuub]

Of course Kobe had to be brought up

 

[flyest in the hood]

Originally Posted by Girl thats Jules

  when the hell did kobe ever shutdown the other teams best player?


i remember iverson hitting 48 on the lakers
starbury hittin 48

and after shaq arenas hit 60

lol allan houston gave kobe 52

.. kobe doesnt lock anyone up

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by bob4rmmarketing

With that said, I'm taking Penny Hardaway over T-Mac. Penny played in the East when it actually meant something. Bulls, Heat, Knicks. T-Mac played in the East when the only team worth watching besides T-Mac is the 76ers mainly in part of A.I. Though I give T-Mac the athleticism over Penny, that's all I give him. A lot of people are looking at PPG and saying, "Tmac" but they're not looking at everything. T-Mac never was a good defender, and he didn't seem like he was working to improve, just going off of raw talent, which he had. Penny always was super humble and seemed like he wanted to be a better basketball player. Injuries robbed them both so we won't ever get to see how good each might've been. T-Mac was a beast, but I'm going with Penny.

1. How can you penalize TMAC for the era that he played in?
2. Penny played defense?
3. Nobody is JUST looking at PPG for TMAC, do you see how well rounded his stats were? Considering he had NO help? How was Penny more well rounded?

it's just comparing 2 different types of players. a pg with 2guard skills and a 2guard with pg skills...

 

[flyest in the hood]

Originally Posted by Girl thats Jules

  when the hell did kobe ever shutdown the other teams best player?


i remember iverson hitting 48 on the lakers
starbury hittin 48

and after shaq arenas hit 60

lol allan houston gave kobe 52

.. kobe doesnt lock anyone up

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by bob4rmmarketing

With that said, I'm taking Penny Hardaway over T-Mac. Penny played in the East when it actually meant something. Bulls, Heat, Knicks. T-Mac played in the East when the only team worth watching besides T-Mac is the 76ers mainly in part of A.I. Though I give T-Mac the athleticism over Penny, that's all I give him. A lot of people are looking at PPG and saying, "Tmac" but they're not looking at everything. T-Mac never was a good defender, and he didn't seem like he was working to improve, just going off of raw talent, which he had. Penny always was super humble and seemed like he wanted to be a better basketball player. Injuries robbed them both so we won't ever get to see how good each might've been. T-Mac was a beast, but I'm going with Penny.

1. How can you penalize TMAC for the era that he played in?
2. Penny played defense?
3. Nobody is JUST looking at PPG for TMAC, do you see how well rounded his stats were? Considering he had NO help? How was Penny more well rounded?

it's just comparing 2 different types of players. a pg with 2guard skills and a 2guard with pg skills...

 

[Deleted member 38182]

Originally Posted by zube42

Of course Kobe had to be brought up

 

[Deleted member 38182]

Originally Posted by zube42

Of course Kobe had to be brought up

 

[Mamba4life]

Old head checking in, and while I rarely comment in comparison post, this one is interesting.  Thinking about these two on their best day(excluding playoff success, injuries, etc.), I don't think it's close.  Tmac and penny aren't on the same page talent wise.  When Penny was at his best, he was a great player.  When Mac was at his best, he was arguably the best player in the league.  I love Penny and his shoes, but he does not have Tmac's talent.  Tmac was a monster.  His scoring ability was unbelievable. 

 

[Mamba4life]

Old head checking in, and while I rarely comment in comparison post, this one is interesting.  Thinking about these two on their best day(excluding playoff success, injuries, etc.), I don't think it's close.  Tmac and penny aren't on the same page talent wise.  When Penny was at his best, he was a great player.  When Mac was at his best, he was arguably the best player in the league.  I love Penny and his shoes, but he does not have Tmac's talent.  Tmac was a monster.  His scoring ability was unbelievable. 

 

[bob4rmmarketing]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by bob4rmmarketing

With that said, I'm taking Penny Hardaway over T-Mac. Penny played in the East when it actually meant something. Bulls, Heat, Knicks. T-Mac played in the East when the only team worth watching besides T-Mac is the 76ers mainly in part of A.I. Though I give T-Mac the athleticism over Penny, that's all I give him. A lot of people are looking at PPG and saying, "Tmac" but they're not looking at everything. T-Mac never was a good defender, and he didn't seem like he was working to improve, just going off of raw talent, which he had. Penny always was super humble and seemed like he wanted to be a better basketball player. Injuries robbed them both so we won't ever get to see how good each might've been. T-Mac was a beast, but I'm going with Penny.

1. How can you penalize TMAC for the era that he played in?
2. Penny played defense?
3. Nobody is JUST looking at PPG for TMAC, do you see how well rounded his stats were? Considering he had NO help? How was Penny more well rounded?

1. I'm saying it's easy to beast on everyone in your conference when the conference is weak as was the East when he was in Orlando. It's not a penalty, it's an observation. You put a 21 year old Penny Hardaway in the Eastern Conference when it was as bad as it was and how is he not going to dominate??
2. He played better defense than T-Mac. I'm not going to remember for defense, but for putting the ball in the hoop.

3. Yeah there are people that will look at points scored, ppg, scoring titles and what not and say "he's the better player". I'm not saying EVERYBODY, but there are people, just like dudes are claiming that people are going to ride with Penny because of his' shoe line.  

Let's throw out this "no help" line. He didn't have another dominate player to play with, but it's not like it's 1 on 5. You have role players that play their roles, everyone is not going to be an All-Star.  TMAC became the number 1 option only after Grant Hill was shelved with that ankle injury.  As good as he was, there's no reason, in the playoffs, that you should be up 3-1 on a team and lose 3 straight by more than 20 each game. You had the Jordan himself saying that he was comfortable passing the torch to Penny Hardaway. 

T-Mac was nice, Penny was nicer.

 

[bob4rmmarketing]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by bob4rmmarketing

With that said, I'm taking Penny Hardaway over T-Mac. Penny played in the East when it actually meant something. Bulls, Heat, Knicks. T-Mac played in the East when the only team worth watching besides T-Mac is the 76ers mainly in part of A.I. Though I give T-Mac the athleticism over Penny, that's all I give him. A lot of people are looking at PPG and saying, "Tmac" but they're not looking at everything. T-Mac never was a good defender, and he didn't seem like he was working to improve, just going off of raw talent, which he had. Penny always was super humble and seemed like he wanted to be a better basketball player. Injuries robbed them both so we won't ever get to see how good each might've been. T-Mac was a beast, but I'm going with Penny.

1. How can you penalize TMAC for the era that he played in?
2. Penny played defense?
3. Nobody is JUST looking at PPG for TMAC, do you see how well rounded his stats were? Considering he had NO help? How was Penny more well rounded?

1. I'm saying it's easy to beast on everyone in your conference when the conference is weak as was the East when he was in Orlando. It's not a penalty, it's an observation. You put a 21 year old Penny Hardaway in the Eastern Conference when it was as bad as it was and how is he not going to dominate??
2. He played better defense than T-Mac. I'm not going to remember for defense, but for putting the ball in the hoop.

3. Yeah there are people that will look at points scored, ppg, scoring titles and what not and say "he's the better player". I'm not saying EVERYBODY, but there are people, just like dudes are claiming that people are going to ride with Penny because of his' shoe line.  

Let's throw out this "no help" line. He didn't have another dominate player to play with, but it's not like it's 1 on 5. You have role players that play their roles, everyone is not going to be an All-Star.  TMAC became the number 1 option only after Grant Hill was shelved with that ankle injury.  As good as he was, there's no reason, in the playoffs, that you should be up 3-1 on a team and lose 3 straight by more than 20 each game. You had the Jordan himself saying that he was comfortable passing the torch to Penny Hardaway. 

T-Mac was nice, Penny was nicer.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

1. You say that you don't remember Penny's defense but you say he was better on the defensive end than TMAC? Ok

2. You have yet to give a concrete non-emotional based reason why Penny was nicer.

3. You ARE penalizing TMAC for not playing in the same era as Penny. He can't help when he was born. So to even say, "Because Q played in R era, he must be better than S that played in T era." No it doesn't work like that. You base people on what they did in THEIR era.

I really believe you all are allowing Penny's pop-culture popularity cloud your judgement.