No need for war, I hear you. I know the advanced stuff, Kobe was also coming off 3 straight Finals runs, still played all 82, and damn near stole that series, just the Horry 3 missed this time. That 3 drains, Kobe closes out with a 4th straight, All NBA, all Defense, etc etc. That was the year Shaq started taking too much time off, and LA gave up HC, etc. *shrugs*
2013-2014 NBA Thread - IND @ WAS and OKC @ LAC on ESPN
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No need for war, I hear you. I know the advanced stuff, Kobe was also coming off 3 straight Finals runs, still played all 82, and damn near stole that series, just the Horry 3 missed this time. That 3 drains, Kobe closes out with a 4th straight, All NBA, all Defense, etc etc. That was the year Shaq started taking too much time off, and LA gave up HC, etc. *shrugs*
- Nov 11, 2007
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Rehabbing on company time.
- Jun 1, 2008
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You know what it is, people just like Kobe more for reasons beyond his actual value. Kobe was as exciting a player as this league has ever seen, in his prime he was just an absolute treat, even to the most casual observer. Factor in that there are so many Laker fans and guys that grew up watching him and that's why these arguments happen.
There's no way that you could argue for Kobe being "better" than prime Duncan, dude was 23/12 on 50% while being the best defender in the league at his position.
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Thanks for the great analyst
Anytime friend.
- Jun 24, 2005
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I like Brandon Rush as a potential fit for Memphis next year. He's really under the radar since he's been injured. I would expect him to make a solid return next season. He just wasn't able to get his feet wet this season with Utah.
As for Ariza, he'll get Kevin Martin type money.
As for Ariza, he'll get Kevin Martin type money.
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MVP
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- Feb 28, 2008
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Eh they all were pretty close that season. Throw KG in there as well.
Duncan-23 ppg/13 rpg/4 apg; 26.9 PER, 16.5 WS
Kobe- 30 ppg/7 rpg/6 apg; 26.2 PER, 14.9 WS
KG- 23 ppg/13 rpg/6 apg; 26.4 PER, 15.6 WS
T-Mac- 32 ppg/6.5 rpg/5.5 apg; 30.1 PER, 16.1 WS
They did finish: Tim, KG, Kobe, T-Mac (1-4) in the regular season MVP voting that year. Think Kobe going on that tear in Feb where he averaged 40+ for the month and saved the Lakers season after them being .500 is what people remember most about that regular season.
So then, Hakeem when he was doin 23/12 on 50% and the best defender in the league at his position, was better than Mike, right? Not a comparison of the players, the stance you are taking. The C position > the perimeter position, long as you get 23/12-50, and Defense. Yes?
- May 9, 2005
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Yes that's pretty much what I mean except Jordan was better than Kobe and pretty much maxed out what you could get from the guard position value wise. He also had a better team around him than Kobe had for his prime years, MJ would have murdered Smush Parker in cold blood if that was his teammate. Ironically if he was still in the league, he'd probably sign him to the Bobcats/Hornets.
But yea I'm not comparing the players, I only like to compare players that play the same position because anything else is kinda hard to justify, I only mean value when I say that.
- Nov 11, 2007
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Duncan had a healthy lead in adjusted plus minus though because of his monster defensive value, plus I feel like since the regular season numbers were somewhat close, Duncan's ridiculous postseason has to count for something. I just find it hard to take anybody over Timmy that season.
- Nov 14, 2012
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with guys like kg and ben wallace you cant really say td is the clear cut best defender at his position. a lot of people forget how dominant kobe was in the later shaq years, transitioning from a #2 into a #1 option and putting the team on his back when shaq would rehab on company time.
- Jun 1, 2008
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Nah, KG wasn't ever a better defender than Duncan and Ben Wallace was a center.
Yes that's pretty much what I mean except Jordan was better than Kobe and pretty much maxed out what you could get from the guard position value wise. He also had a better team around him than Kobe had for his prime years, MJ would have murdered Smush Parker in cold blood if that was his teammate. Ironically if he was still in the league, he'd probably sign him to the Bobcats/Hornets.
But yea I'm not comparing the players, I only like to compare players that play the same position because anything else is kinda hard to justify, I only mean value when I say that.
Hell, Timmy’s 23/12 on 50% and defense looks like **** compared to Hakeem.
Dream went 26, 13, 3.5 dimes, 4.2 blocks, 1.8 steals, and did that on 53% shooting, with the best defense in the NBA in 93.
So, you must have Dream as the “best player in the game” in 1993 right? Cuz Duncan so impressed you 10 years later with 23/12/4 and 3 blocks, half a steal on 51%, right?
So yeah, Mike is surely better than Kobe, but that run he went on in 2002-03 for a guard, if that's not "maxed out" then I would like to know what the heck is. (outside Mike of course)
- Jun 24, 2005
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in terms of team success, kobe's teams had better peaks while duncan's teams were more consistent. the spurs were able to put out 55-60 win teams every year and take advantage of the post shaq lakers rebuilding phase.Yes that's pretty much what I mean except Jordan was better than Kobe and pretty much maxed out what you could get from the guard position value wise. He also had a better team around him than Kobe had for his prime years, MJ would have murdered Smush Parker in cold blood if that was his teammate. Ironically if he was still in the league, he'd probably sign him to the Bobcats/Hornets.
But yea I'm not comparing the players, I only like to compare players that play the same position because anything else is kinda hard to justify, I only mean value when I say that.
they both had hof teammates and great role players over the years, kobe had the better coach and duncan had the better FO
- Oct 10, 2008
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I'm confused what exactly is being argued in here?
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This season yes, but Barnes still had a couple games where he played pretty good. The funny thing, if his percentages were higher, everybody would've said he had a great season. His numbers(rebounds, assist, etc.) weren't down, only his fg and ft % were.
- Jun 1, 2008
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Hell, Timmy’s 23/12 on 50% and defense looks like **** compared to Hakeem.
Dream went 26, 13, 3.5 dimes, 4.2 blocks, 1.8 steals, and did that on 53% shooting, with the best defense in the NBA in 93.
So, you must have Dream as the “best player in the game” in 1993 right? Cuz Duncan so impressed you 10 years later with 23/12/4 and 3 blocks, half a steal on 51%, right?
So yeah, Mike is surely better than Kobe, but that run he went on in 2002-03 for a guard, if that's not "maxed out" then I would like to know what the heck is. (outside Mike of course)
Indeed, I'm still shocked at how good Hakeem was and make sure to watch any Rockets games on Hardwood Classics.
Yes I'm taking prime Hakeem over Duncan 10/10, this man was really getting quadruple doubles. :x
That's a joke, even MJ said that besides himself, Dream was the greatest player he's ever seen.
& 02-03 Kobe is maxed out, he was magnificent that year and I can only think of a few seasons by any guard that come close.
Plus dude was rocking so many great sneakers that year and he did this
- Nov 15, 2007
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You know to play the 4 straight championships almost card when you can just as easily play the "they almost lost in the WCF in '00 and '02" card if not for a few lucky bounces here or there.
Duncan's consistency (especially what he has done over the past few years) and moved him into the position where he trumps Kobe all-time. Literally the spurs has never not won 50 games with him, I don't know if people understand just how hard that is to do.
Duncan's consistency (especially what he has done over the past few years) and moved him into the position where he trumps Kobe all-time. Literally the spurs has never not won 50 games with him, I don't know if people understand just how hard that is to do.
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Not arguing, I think some just have diff views on value. Some prefer the bigs, C, PF's, and other's prefer the perimeter guys that can do everything. I think that's essentially what we're debating here a lil bit.
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kg was very dominant defensively, the difference was td was on a defensive minded spurs team and kg was on the timberwolves taking slam mag cover photos with stephon marbury
they were both great defenders but td was never clearly the best defensive pf in the league at that time
And Duncan shouldn't have won in 07, or 99, and damn near lost in 03 etc etc. Goes the same exact way as you trying to nitpick 2000 and 02.
- Jun 1, 2008
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He and Pop have the best winning% of all time.
Greatness that all started when Pop took that trip down to the Virgin Islands and planned world takeover with young Timmy.
shoeking2101
Banned
- Sep 1, 2007
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Kobe in 02-03 or Kobe in 05-06?
- Nov 14, 2012
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almost every championship team has lucky bounces here and there. at the end of the day you focus on what actually happened rather than talking about what if this shot missed or that shot went in
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