The Ultimate Football Thread 2013-2014 Vol. 4 EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga, Serie A etc

[Coupé It]

With all of these Dortmund rumors, Looks like the golden BVB cycle is ending. It'll come around in another 10 years.

Damn shame.

Reus needs to go to Arsenal btw. I think that'll be his perfect fit.

 

[tomdiginson]

With all of these Dortmund rumors, Looks like the golden BVB cycle is ending. It'll come around in another 10 years.

Damn shame.

Reus needs to go to Arsenal btw. I think that'll be his perfect fit.

Now watch as all the bandwagonners jump off the team. I personally don't think dortmund will fall off.

 

[hoosiergunner]

With all of these Dortmund rumors, Looks like the golden BVB cycle is ending. It'll come around in another 10 years.

Damn shame.

Reus needs to go to Arsenal btw. I think that'll be his perfect fit.

I've thought this for a while. Arsenal's weakest point in attack is on the left. Granted part of that is because Podolski has been out injured but Reus would be quite a large upgrade over even a healthy Podolski.

Where does he fit at Barcelona/Madrid? Neymar/Ronaldo's backup? If they moved Neymar into a more central role then perhaps Barcelona would be a good fit, but there have been no signs of that have there?

 

[Kimchi Papi]

At this point, I think it's all rumors (at least for now). Klopp just signed an extension. I don't think he would've extended if he had an inclination that Dortmund would implode. Plus they have a one of Europe's best youth academies coupled with a great scouting dept. They'll be fine if anything happens.

If any team were smart, they should probably look at who Dortmund will line up to replace whoever they might lose instead of the actual Dortmund target. That target will most likely be cheaper & as talented...

 

[Coupé It]

Bayern has never and will never have an equal challenger. The saddest thing about the Bundesliga. (Some multi-billionaire needs to go to Germany and buy a team instead of an England.)

BVB may be fine, but that depends on your definition of fine. This happened in the late 90's after they won the champions league, they just disappeared and basically waited for another golden generation to come in. That took about 10 years.

They may have a great youth program, but top players don't just come to the team overnight. That takes time. If BVB are letting all of there great players leave at 23-24 years old, there going into a dark hole real fast. No youth academy in the world can replace what they will lose (Lewa, Reus, Gun).

 

[hoosiergunner]

Bayern has never and will never have an equal challenger. The saddest thing about the Bundesliga. (Some multi-billionaire needs to go to Germany and buy a team instead of an England.)

BVB may be fine, but that depends on your definition of fine. This happened in the late 90's after they won the champions league, they just disappeared and basically waited for another golden generation to come in. That took about 10 years.

They may have a great youth program, but top players don't just come to the team overnight. That takes time. If BVB are letting all of there great players leave at 23-24 years old, there going into a dark hole real fast. No youth academy in the world can replace what they will lose (Lewa, Reus, Gun).

They can't, the rules on German ownership of teams is extremely strict. Only exception I think is VfL Wolfsburg because they were started by factory workers at the Volkswagen factory.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

If you care to read, check out this article on Dortmund. Very well written from a decent football site. The Dortmund of the 90s is totally different from the club that exists today.

Little known fact, about 10 years ago, Bayern loaned Dortmund money interest free. Bayern has done this several times over the years to clubs like 1860 Munich & FC St Pauli...

http://thinkfootball.co.uk/archives/6868

Out of the Flames – Dortmund’s Remarkable Rise from Financial Ruin
by Matthew Whitehouse • December 11, 2012

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

In the past decade the English Premier League has seen the emergence of billionaire owners which has affected the mentality in English football. Money has always played a part in football yet with the excessive “financial doping” in the league, success appears only possible with vast amounts of money. The corresponding success that sides like Chelsea and Man City have achieved because of this money has painted a bleak picture of the future of football. However, this season has seen both Chelsea and Man City knocked out of Europe’s top competition, highlighting that money does not always bring success.

The antithesis of these sides has been Borussia Dortmund. Dortmund are back to back German champions and this season finished top of the “group of death” in the Champions League. They have achieved their success with a net spend of zero, yes zero, these past three years. The rise of Dortmund out the flames of financial ruin to being touted as Champions League winners is a story which inspires not only a belief that football’s future is not as bleak as many believe but of a model which can be replicated by many sides across the world.

Dortmund’s era of lavish spending

In the mid 90’s Dortmund enjoyed their greatest success, winning the Bundesliga in ’95 and ’96 and the Champions League in 1997. Dortmund, with European player of the year Matthias Sammer, Andreas Moller and Karl-Heinz Riedle overcame the talent of a Juventus side blessed with Deschamps, Zidane, Vieri and Del Piero.

However the following two seasons meant their glory was short lived and a 4th place finish the following season was nothing compared to the capitulation that followed in 1999-2000 where they avoided relegation by only five points. It has emerged that problems had surfaced through the poor management of finances and a change of manager had rocked the club and affected results.

Management decided to take drastic action and Dortmund became the first, and only, publicly traded club on the German stock market. This generated money which enabled the purchases of Marcio Amoroso, Jan Koller, Ewerthon and the creative Tomas Rosicky. Dortmund became a force once again.

However problems surfaced again, with mismanagement of finances being the cause. The club had spent beyond their means on foreign imports, and heavy debts of £125 million led to the sale of their ground due to their failure to advance in the 2003 Champions League (amazingly they had budgeted for Champions League football without the guarantee of actually being in the competition.) This put the club on the brink of bankruptcy in 2005. The ambition for success had come at a cost and one of the biggest teams in Europe were on the brink of financial collapse.

Between 2005 – 2008 the club embarked on a mass clearout in order to balance the books. It led to a time of mid table finishes. When Thomas Doll, the coach in 07-08 led the side to a 13th place finish, their worst position in 20 years, it appeared that the “might” of Dortmund was never to be again. That is until some inspired management decisions revolutionised the club.

Year Zero

Today it is termed “Year Zero”. In the summer of 2008 a new management team came in with the intention of slashing costs and boosting commercial activity. After Doll they knew that they needed a coach who could inspire the club and fans and make Dortmund a “respectable” club again.

They chose Jurgen Klopp, the highly-rated young manager who had just lead Mainz into the Bundesliga for the first time in their history. Klopp was regarded highly in Germany as a progressive, disciplined coach and he was hired on an initial two-year deal with the remit to make Dortmund respectable once again. He was instructed that he would have to follow a sustainable model which would not burden the club with debts.

Thus, Klopp’s focus had to be on youth development, using players from the academy. Any signings would need to be young players for very little money. Klopp therefore set out with the intention to build a side of hungry, young players whose value would gradually improve. A business model for growth and sustainability without doubt, yet for success?

The rise of the new Dortmund

Klopp’s impact was almost imminent with the club winning the DFB Supercup in his first competitive game. They finished the season in 6th place, much improved on 13th and having lost only five of their 34 league games. He understood the importance of building the defensive foundations and his side boasted the best defence in the league

The team’s defensive might was built on the impressive Neven Subotic, the Serbian defender signed from Klopp’s former club Mainz for a bargain €4.6m and Mats Hummels, the talented German youngster who was deemed not good enough when at Bayern. Hummels joined on an initial loan deal from Bayern, before signing permanently at the end of the season. Their partnership was and has been the foundation for Dortmund’s success and shows that with the right manager, expense is not the answer to every problem.

Klopp and his team had to be shrewder because of their restricted budget and more precise in their scouting. With their in-depth scouting network, working from a template in order to recruit players based on their attributes more than reputation. Their best “find” was Shinji Kagawa. Kagawa was playing in the J-league 2nd division and was bought for just £300,000. It was to prove a very shrewd piece of business for the club. Added to this the clubs recruitment of Polish players such as Robert Lewandowski, Lukasz Piszczek and Jakub Blaszkowski have all proven fruitful and benefited the side.

These recruits have become such quality players because of the work of the coach. Klopp has shown he is able to get the best out of players who were either unknown or not highly regarded, his trust in players and ability to develop them has seen the improvements of players like Kagawa and Lewandowski from unknown’s into world class players. This ability and talent should not be underestimated.

Lewandowski scored 30 goals for Dortmund last season and was simply brilliant in front of goal, his performance in the cup final against Bayern, a 5-2 win, was sublime and no wonder Alex Ferguson (who was in attendance) was interested in the Polish forward. It is no surprise therefore that top sides are looking at the 23 year old, he was bought for just £3.5m in 2010.
In just three years Klopp had taken the club from 13th to Bundesliga champions. With debt-reduction Dortmund’s main aim, Klopp had to buy carefully and the championship-winning squad of 2010-11 cost less than £5m to assemble. There was something about this Dortmund team which indicated this was not just a one off, a new force had awoken in Germany.

A potentially difficult summer

This past summer was potentially Klopp’s most difficult, for the simple reason that through Dortmund’s success his players have become sought after commodities. His problem has been that he cannot compete with Europe’s top sides, especially when it comes down to wages. Dortmund still lack the funds, with most investment going into improving the youth academy in order to keep more players like Nuri Sahin and Mario Gotze coming through. So when Man Utd come looking for players like Kagawa and Lewandowski, Dortmund simply cannot compete with finances.

Although Kagawa decided to leave Dortmund, Klopp had a replacement already in Marco Reus, a former Dortmund youth player. Reus had been in excellent form for Monchengladbach and was sought after by both Bayern and Dortmund. He opted for Klopp and Dortmund because he felt it would be the best place for his development.

Importantly for Klopp Dortmund kept hold of their most important player in Mats Hummels. Hummels impressed many for Germany in the Euro’s and at just 23 years old, Hummels offers so much potential. Although he was a big target for sides like Barca and Milan this summer he decided to stay with Dortmund.

His willingness to stay with the club repays the faith they put into him when he was released by Bayern, deemed not fast enough, a ridiculous decision in retrospect. Yet perhaps, if not for Klopp, he would not be the player he is today. Hummels clearly has much to thank Klopp and Dortmund for and his willingness to stay also indicates that he believes Dortmund can improve further.

How Klopp has learnt how to deal with Europe

European competition was Dortmund’s next step. Last season Dortmund really struggled in the Champions League however; they were simply too naïve and tactically and mentally immature for that competition. They could not deal with the extra travel and Klopp admitted that some players were simply overwhelmed by the competition.

Balancing the Champions League and Bundesliga was difficult for the Dortmund players and coach and it showed with mixed results in both. When the burden of the Champions League was removed, the side went on an unbeaten run which lasted for the remainder of the season and which propelled them to the top of the league.
Yet Klopp wanted to come back this season and do much better in the Champions League. He has achieved his aim. With the new addition of Marco Reus and the ever improving Ikay Gundogan, Mario Gotze and Robert Lewandowski Dortmund have looked like a side capable of achieving great things in Europe this season.

Dortmund’s level of play and intensity, along with their technical and tactical quality in all their group games has been sublime. They have looked focused and driven, organised and completely together in their performance. Particularly against Man City at the Etihad Dortmund gave a first class performance of how to play in Europe, in terms of attacking and defending. It was the exact balance of quality, work rate and tactics that is required to succeed at this level.

In the space of a year they have gone from a side looking out of their depth, to a side who look capable of winning the competition. Once again Jurgen Klopp is showing an ability to learn and overcome new challenges that are put in front of managerial abilities.

Perhaps the biggest reason for Dortmund’s success is team cohesion. The environment that Klopp has created at Dortmund is very team centric and he stresses the importance of being together. “The family within the club comes above everything else” he explained. “This is important so that everything fits together. This often determines victory or defeat.”

Added to this is Klopp’s hunger, drive and determination to win things. He has achieved great things already and has clearly instilled these mental strengths in his players, “My motivation and enthusiasm is extremely strong, which is replicated by the team. There is now a spirit of optimism here,”

In a matter of four years Jurgen Klopp has taken a side languishing in mid table mediocrity and turned them into a world class side. This should be viewed as nothing short of a miracle. Without the ability to compete financially against the fellow Germans Bayern and Schalke, as well as seeing the club defeating sides like Real Madrid and Man CIty with performances that were at times breath-taking, the story of Dortmund is quite remarkable. Without doubt it is all down to Klopp and his abilities as a manager, he has the touch that all great coaches have, the ability to inspire and get the best from his players.

A model for football’s future

With the current state of the global economy rather unstable, an economy which once seemed solid and reliable is becoming increasingly fragile. From an economic point of view, acting responsibly and considering the consequences and implications of one’s decisions is obviously more important than ever. Therefore, the simultaneous striving for economic success and growth is a balancing act that presently poses a special challenge. In Germany sides in the Bundesliga has been embracing sustainability for years.

The English Premier League financial power compared to the Bundesliga is amazing; revenues in the English league are £2.3 billion compared to Germany which is £1.7 billion. The money in England certainly improved the clubs during the past decade, yet it was at the expense of English talent. More foreigners came into the league and English players suffered.

The game however is steadily evolving and sides like Dortmund and Barcelona have shown that home grown talent can be more sustainable and can lead to more success than trying to do what Man City, Chelsea and Real Madrid have attempted in their “Galactico” projects.

Dortmund may be resigned to losing some of their players in the coming years, yet this is a compliment to the work they have done. The club have built a sustainable model for success, enabling profitable finances which keep the team safe along with success on the pitch. With the scouting system they have in place and a youth academy fit to rival many in the world, things look very good for Dortmund’s future. The Dortmund model is one for English clubs and clubs all over the world to learn from.

Dortmund had major financial issues at the turn of the century; they were quite simply on the verge of going out of business. They realised that a sustainable model of success was required for their survival in the modern economic climate. They invested in youth and improved their scouting network and it proved very beneficial. More clubs need to wake up to the fact a sustainable model will ensure stability and long term survival. Dortmund are a lesson for those in England who are right now enjoying a bubble which will inevitably burst.

When I see what Jurgen Klopp has achieved it makes me pleased and hopeful for the future of football. It is a shock that Klopp has not been nominated for FIFA’s coach of the year award. He is a manager who has shown that through strong leadership, developing young players and building a united and committed team, money is not the only means to success.

Since 2008 Dortmund have risen out of the flames of financial ruin into one of the best model’s of sustainability in the modern game as well as becoming one of Europe’s best sides. Led by one of the games best coaches, the future of the club appears set for continued success both on and off the pitch.

 

[champcruthik]

Ravel's problem is attitude, not talent. Knucklehead to the max. Mario-lite in behavior.

 

[chiva1908]

Kinda harsh to call Kagawa a "flop" when he doesn't get the minutes and/or is playing in random *** positions that don't benefit him...

 

[Kimchi Papi]

I wouldn't say Kagawa is a flop. I think he's played well & sometimes great. Moyes problem is that he needs to learn to use the personnel he has to fit the team he plays week to week. It almost looks like he's trying to run the same game plan every week. It's remarkable the stark contrast between Everton under Moyes & Everton under Martinez. Toffee supporters feel like they've seen sunshine after years of cloudy skies metaphorically speaking...

Edit - I love this quote from Martinez recently after a win against Hull City, “If you go somewhere, sit behind the ball, get 20% of the play and come away with a sneaky win, I don't enjoy those. You need find a way to break things down and win the game, by taking responsibility if wanting the ball."

 

[JJ Goon]

I don't think that's an accurate comparison. Sahin pretty much struggled from the moment he stepped onto the pitch at the Bernabeu. He pretty much disappeared after problems with injury & recovery & things never picked up after his move to the Prem.

Even though he spent most of his time playing out of position, Kagawa has played ok, even showed flashes of great play (which included a hat trick last season if memory serves me correct).

Sahin never showed any of that during his stops in La Liga & The Prem.

I just don't see any Dortmund players wanting to come to play for Moyes especially after looking at the way they play tactically. It's elementary level football really.

Sahin played quite well for Liverpool even scoring a hattrick in one game, But Rogers didn't like him for some reason so sent home back.

But then again if Rogers picked JonJo Shelvey over him must be something wrong!

 

[chiva1908]

Quality is not that good, but here is Uli's Hat Trick

 

[Coupé It]

Is Sahin still owned by Real?

 

[JJ Goon]

Is Sahin still owned by Real?

Yes he is although BVB expected to complete permanent transfer the next few weeks

 

[Kimchi Papi]

Sahin played quite well for Liverpool even scoring a hattrick in one game, But Rogers didn't like him for some reason so sent home back.

But then again if Rogers picked JonJo Shelvey over him must be something wrong!

That's right, he played well when he first got to Anfield but then he started struggling playing in the midfield then Rodgers tried him out as an attacker where he did even worse...

Still I wouldn't compare Kagawa's situation now to Sahin's then.

 

[eiddyfouw]

You guys can really see any Dortmund player coming to Man U after Kagawa?

I highly HIGHLY doubt it.

With all of these Dortmund rumors, Looks like the golden BVB cycle is ending. It'll come around in another 10 years.

Damn shame.

Reus needs to go to Arsenal btw. I think that'll be his perfect fit.

I definitely wouldn't say that. They somehow manage to have a fantastic scouting system and youth system as well. They manage to find hidden young talented gems consistently. As someone else said, the BVB of the 90s is very different to the BVB of today.

I like BVB firstly cause of their style of play...secondly because of how they run as a club. I WISH United were run like that club. A profitable club, who brings in youth, who has their own style of play and is competitive consistently (that's probably why they have some of the worlds best fans). [interestingly enough, there's another club in the EPL who is in a similar situation to BVB to this club and they're currently seeing the upside now]

I don't see the two main reasons of why people would like BVB changing anytime soon.

I, and I don't think anyone, expects BVB to win the league with ease or breeze passed Bayern. Bayern will always be king. But one has to respect what BVB does.

With Klopp at the helm, their youth system and scouting system, they'll be fine. Even if they sell Lewa, and Reus.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

I know they're at home, but does anyone see Les Bleus beating Ukraine? Not only do they have to score at least 2 goals, but they also have to keep a clean sheet... The Ukrainian team has played pretty well in their group...

 

[Sinner]

 

[imasoleman18]

X_X that morrison goal, another united player that got away if his name continues to get out there

 

[chiva1908]

Chicha looks so lost

 

[rck3sactown]

oh Chicha

 

[eiddyfouw]

Super Eagles are back in it...

clearly there are alot of Nigerians in London...the crowd went crazy...

 

[Coupé It]

The only thing I got from that video with Chicha is "Please, Someone get me the hell out of England".

I see France scoring two goals tomorrow and going into extra time, then, who knows.

Also, the Portugal and Sweden game. I see Sweden attacking as much as they can but still being very cautious knowing that Portugal can kill them with the counter. Really wish we had scored another goal, I'm not the least bit content. I believe in our counter tho, it's important for us to play great defense like we did Friday most importantly.

 

[eiddyfouw]

OMG!!!!!!

WHAT A GOAL!!!!

AMEOBI!


Super Eagles 2- 1 Italy

 

[eiddyfouw]

Balotelli has all of the right tools....I just wish he could have had his head screwed on straight...

Some of the things he produces with such ease are incredible...