The Official NBA Collective Bargaining Thread vol Phased in Hard Cap

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by seasoned vet

.....i challenge anyone to show me when and where the NBA players have done anything to gain leverage against 30 BILLIONAIRE owners and their hobby.

  and please think before you respond, we're talking LEVERAGE people. this little NBA %%$! is PLAY MONEY to these billionaires. show me where these NBA players have done anything to try and challenge that

 

Why is that important to you?  Why is Leverage such a key to you?  In any sport, any business, you don't have leverage over the bosses.  The only "leverage" they may have is they are the workers, AND the product.  Use Intel as an example.  What if Computers simply got up and said @#$% this, we want more money.  Can't happen right, they're computers.  The product is an inanimate object.  NBA players, are not.  That's their leverage.  They are both.  And even still, leverage is not the point, in any way. 

Everyone knew before it all began that the players were losing this deal.  Nothing could be done to stop that.  Owners cried broke, players had to give money back.  That was that.  No leverage needed, and the players conceded.  Do you understand this? 

So they give the money back, now the owners want MORE, they want system fixes.  That's where the players are like "wait, we gave you your money, why mess with the system that produced 4.4 billion dollars?"  Why both?  That's what's goin on.  The owners have won the war, now they are trying to kill every single soldier.  That's what this is all about now.  They don't want to win by 50, they want to win by 700. 

Your leverage argument means nothing to nobody.  They aren't fighting for more of anything, they are trying to hold on to what they have left, that's all.  They don't want more money, they don't want system changes, they just want stuff left alone, here's your money, let's play ball. 

  

 

[CP1708]

Oh my God at this Simmons podcast. 

 

What the @#$% happened to this guy?  He's backing the OWNERS and understands them wanting to protect themselves from stupid contracts?  Huh? What the hell?  Is ESPN making him say that stuff? 

And I think I found where Vet got that leverage talk, they mentioned it a couple times. 

THEY DID COUNTER ISSUES, THE LEAGUE SAID NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO to all of them.  They had a bunch of counter questions, the league said no flat out to all of them.  That's not a full counter proposal, it's countering specific issues one by one. 

And lastly, why would I want it to go to a vote when there are plenty of players that are not up to date?  If a guy isn't in any meetings, doesn't care, etc etc, now I give him a vote?  Why? 

The players that are there, and involved, those are the guys that should be having the say, not guys like Michael Beasley or JR Smith or someone like that. 

 

[CP1708]

Oh my God at this Simmons podcast. 

 

What the @#$% happened to this guy?  He's backing the OWNERS and understands them wanting to protect themselves from stupid contracts?  Huh? What the hell?  Is ESPN making him say that stuff? 

And I think I found where Vet got that leverage talk, they mentioned it a couple times. 

THEY DID COUNTER ISSUES, THE LEAGUE SAID NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO to all of them.  They had a bunch of counter questions, the league said no flat out to all of them.  That's not a full counter proposal, it's countering specific issues one by one. 

And lastly, why would I want it to go to a vote when there are plenty of players that are not up to date?  If a guy isn't in any meetings, doesn't care, etc etc, now I give him a vote?  Why? 

The players that are there, and involved, those are the guys that should be having the say, not guys like Michael Beasley or JR Smith or someone like that. 

 

[grittyman20]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Oh my God at this Simmons podcast. 

 

What the @#$% happened to this guy? 

He's a tool. Dude had the nerve to say that revenue sharing is irrelevant to this issue

 

[grittyman20]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Oh my God at this Simmons podcast. 

 

What the @#$% happened to this guy? 

He's a tool. Dude had the nerve to say that revenue sharing is irrelevant to this issue

 

[CP1708]

Now all of a sudden this @#$%^&* toolbag is saying he'll go to hockey next year instead of basketball. 

  This same guy just wrote a book about basketball and lives and dies by the sport, now he's acting like a spoiled rich kid.  This has to be a schtick.  No way he's serious. 

And now he's trying to say that the casual fans won't come back to the NBA. 

 

I'm glad that Stein and Bucher at least called him out for his bs. 


I expect so much more of you Simmons. 

 

[CP1708]

Now all of a sudden this @#$%^&* toolbag is saying he'll go to hockey next year instead of basketball. 

  This same guy just wrote a book about basketball and lives and dies by the sport, now he's acting like a spoiled rich kid.  This has to be a schtick.  No way he's serious. 

And now he's trying to say that the casual fans won't come back to the NBA. 

 

I'm glad that Stein and Bucher at least called him out for his bs. 


I expect so much more of you Simmons. 

 

[lazyj10]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Oh my God at this Simmons podcast. 

 

What the @#$% happened to this guy?  He's backing the OWNERS and understands them wanting to protect themselves from stupid contracts?  Huh? What the hell?  Is ESPN making him say that stuff? 

And I think I found where Vet got that leverage talk, they mentioned it a couple times. 

THEY DID COUNTER ISSUES, THE LEAGUE SAID NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO to all of them.  They had a bunch of counter questions, the league said no flat out to all of them.  That's not a full counter proposal, it's countering specific issues one by one. 

And lastly, why would I want it to go to a vote when there are plenty of players that are not up to date?  If a guy isn't in any meetings, doesn't care, etc etc, now I give him a vote?  Why? 

The players that are there, and involved, those are the guys that should be having the say, not guys like Michael Beasley or JR Smith or someone like that. 

I respect Bucher and Steiny for calling him out on his rampant flip-flopping thought.
  

 

[lazyj10]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Oh my God at this Simmons podcast. 

 

What the @#$% happened to this guy?  He's backing the OWNERS and understands them wanting to protect themselves from stupid contracts?  Huh? What the hell?  Is ESPN making him say that stuff? 

And I think I found where Vet got that leverage talk, they mentioned it a couple times. 

THEY DID COUNTER ISSUES, THE LEAGUE SAID NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO to all of them.  They had a bunch of counter questions, the league said no flat out to all of them.  That's not a full counter proposal, it's countering specific issues one by one. 

And lastly, why would I want it to go to a vote when there are plenty of players that are not up to date?  If a guy isn't in any meetings, doesn't care, etc etc, now I give him a vote?  Why? 

The players that are there, and involved, those are the guys that should be having the say, not guys like Michael Beasley or JR Smith or someone like that. 

I respect Bucher and Steiny for calling him out on his rampant flip-flopping thought.
  

 

[hankmoody]

Simmons was a rich spoiled kid. Look up his background. IIRC, he went to Greenwich Country Day for HS. I'll spare you the details on tuition.

 

[hankmoody]

Simmons was a rich spoiled kid. Look up his background. IIRC, he went to Greenwich Country Day for HS. I'll spare you the details on tuition.

 

[dmbrhs]

You guys get way too worked up about Simmons. Half of what he says is tongue-in-cheek. He's definitely not on the owner's side. He's stated many times, from the beginning, that there is no side.

 

[dmbrhs]

You guys get way too worked up about Simmons. Half of what he says is tongue-in-cheek. He's definitely not on the owner's side. He's stated many times, from the beginning, that there is no side.

 

[duba169]

The celtics are hard line from what I read. That's y prob

 

[duba169]

The celtics are hard line from what I read. That's y prob

 

[CP1708]

There is SOME good stuff in here though, just have to sift thru it.  And I agree, maybe he is being tongue in cheek a lil bit. 

He just mentioned the league trying to sell the Hornets for 350 mil, and the Warriors for 400, etc.  He even said flat out collusion about they new the deal they were going to push for etc. 

I also like the point they made about the economy is down, however the league made record profits last year, ie not affected by the economy, and now they are slashing money from the players, Simmons mentions maybe they are worried about future years moreso than last year.  I can see that angle, big screen HD TV's and such making it less needed to attend games, etc.  But I would assume they could make up gate loss with TV contracts later. I dunno.

And then he talks about the Celtics buying in on their tv station, so no way to truly revenue share.  Hence my point at the start, there is never going to be a way to make it fair for all teams, someone will ALWAYS find a way around the system.  Paycuts for players, back end deals, shady deals, promises, etc, and team wise they could do liscense deals, or tv station deals, etc.  Someone will ALWAYS try to push the envelope.  If they want fair for teams like NFL, need to adjust schedules, like they do in the NFL.  Not sure why no one gets that. 


So far the second part is much better than the first.  The first was lame.  Simmons was bein stupid or somethin, now he's using his brain better. 

 

[CP1708]

There is SOME good stuff in here though, just have to sift thru it.  And I agree, maybe he is being tongue in cheek a lil bit. 

He just mentioned the league trying to sell the Hornets for 350 mil, and the Warriors for 400, etc.  He even said flat out collusion about they new the deal they were going to push for etc. 

I also like the point they made about the economy is down, however the league made record profits last year, ie not affected by the economy, and now they are slashing money from the players, Simmons mentions maybe they are worried about future years moreso than last year.  I can see that angle, big screen HD TV's and such making it less needed to attend games, etc.  But I would assume they could make up gate loss with TV contracts later. I dunno.

And then he talks about the Celtics buying in on their tv station, so no way to truly revenue share.  Hence my point at the start, there is never going to be a way to make it fair for all teams, someone will ALWAYS find a way around the system.  Paycuts for players, back end deals, shady deals, promises, etc, and team wise they could do liscense deals, or tv station deals, etc.  Someone will ALWAYS try to push the envelope.  If they want fair for teams like NFL, need to adjust schedules, like they do in the NFL.  Not sure why no one gets that. 


So far the second part is much better than the first.  The first was lame.  Simmons was bein stupid or somethin, now he's using his brain better. 

 

[bigmike23]

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

SAS is a moron.

   *Not even 3 minutes in and this dude SAS called the players foolish and that he's ashamed of them

now yall tell me what he said that was wrong? he never said he didnt agree with fighting for there rights or that the owners where trying to rape them. he backs the players

his whole point was they had leverage at this point and never did so should of took this deal because it will never get better.

 

[bigmike23]

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

SAS is a moron.

   *Not even 3 minutes in and this dude SAS called the players foolish and that he's ashamed of them

now yall tell me what he said that was wrong? he never said he didnt agree with fighting for there rights or that the owners where trying to rape them. he backs the players

his whole point was they had leverage at this point and never did so should of took this deal because it will never get better.

 

[seasoned vet]

Originally Posted by CP1708



And I think I found where Vet got that leverage talk, they mentioned it a couple times. 

 
....dont embarass yourself. i didnt get that "leverage talk" from anywhere but sound knowledge about how to conduct business.

  

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by seasoned vet

.....i challenge anyone to show me when and where the NBA players have done anything to gain leverage against 30 BILLIONAIRE owners and their hobby.

  and please think before you respond, we're talking LEVERAGE people. this little NBA %%$! is PLAY MONEY to these billionaires. show me where these NBA players have done anything to try and challenge that

 

Why is that important to you?  Why is Leverage such a key to you?   

Your leverage argument means nothing to nobody.  

  

.....leverage means a great deal to someone that understandsthe basics of business negotiations. its obvious that you dont.
 
- im glad you brought up the inanimate object point.

.....for example: if you owned a business that sold one of a kind inanimate products that one day got up and asked for more money or they were going to leave the store. as an owner what are your options?
 
...remember, these are 'one of a kind' products. even though you own the store....and you own the products, what are your options as an owner??
 
 
 
 
EXACTLY
 
......your choices are to give them what they want or close up shop.
 
 
 

   Everyone knew before it all began that the players were losing this deal.  Nothing could be done to stop that.

   
100% FALSE
 
...this lockout was the only opportunity for the players to (just like the inanimate object analogy above), threaten the owners with taking their talents elsewhere.......something they never did. 
 
....KEY WORD "threaten". threaten by showcasing their own games on national television by themselves, not these crappy handicam youtube videos we've been seeing this summer.
 
....had the players showcased nationaly televised games, in large arenas, with money made from advertising during these games, maybe the owners wouldnt have negotiated so hard....because afterall as you yourself put it:

Everyone knew before it all began that the players were losing this deal.
 
....but the players (like the inanimate object analogy), bristled up the owners about what they want, but never made any solid threats.
 
 
....that i dont respect. i cant respect it. you have to do use what you have available to you and use that to fight back, something the players have yet to do.
 
 
 

 

[seasoned vet]

Originally Posted by CP1708



And I think I found where Vet got that leverage talk, they mentioned it a couple times. 

 
....dont embarass yourself. i didnt get that "leverage talk" from anywhere but sound knowledge about how to conduct business.

  

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by seasoned vet

.....i challenge anyone to show me when and where the NBA players have done anything to gain leverage against 30 BILLIONAIRE owners and their hobby.

  and please think before you respond, we're talking LEVERAGE people. this little NBA %%$! is PLAY MONEY to these billionaires. show me where these NBA players have done anything to try and challenge that

 

Why is that important to you?  Why is Leverage such a key to you?   

Your leverage argument means nothing to nobody.  

  

.....leverage means a great deal to someone that understandsthe basics of business negotiations. its obvious that you dont.
 
- im glad you brought up the inanimate object point.

.....for example: if you owned a business that sold one of a kind inanimate products that one day got up and asked for more money or they were going to leave the store. as an owner what are your options?
 
...remember, these are 'one of a kind' products. even though you own the store....and you own the products, what are your options as an owner??
 
 
 
 
EXACTLY
 
......your choices are to give them what they want or close up shop.
 
 
 

   Everyone knew before it all began that the players were losing this deal.  Nothing could be done to stop that.

   
100% FALSE
 
...this lockout was the only opportunity for the players to (just like the inanimate object analogy above), threaten the owners with taking their talents elsewhere.......something they never did. 
 
....KEY WORD "threaten". threaten by showcasing their own games on national television by themselves, not these crappy handicam youtube videos we've been seeing this summer.
 
....had the players showcased nationaly televised games, in large arenas, with money made from advertising during these games, maybe the owners wouldnt have negotiated so hard....because afterall as you yourself put it:

Everyone knew before it all began that the players were losing this deal.
 
....but the players (like the inanimate object analogy), bristled up the owners about what they want, but never made any solid threats.
 
 
....that i dont respect. i cant respect it. you have to do use what you have available to you and use that to fight back, something the players have yet to do.
 
 
 

 

[mronegative]

Never heard Simmons troll this hard before.

Shoulda sat out and let Bucher and Steiny Mo talk. Dude used to be flexible at least, just straight John Edward.

 

[mronegative]

Never heard Simmons troll this hard before.

Shoulda sat out and let Bucher and Steiny Mo talk. Dude used to be flexible at least, just straight John Edward.

 

[japanair21]

Never got all the fascination around Simmons, I was never fond of the guy, always just seemed like a douche to me.

 

[japanair21]

Never got all the fascination around Simmons, I was never fond of the guy, always just seemed like a douche to me.