Stupid Conspiracy Theorists...Gov't involved in 9/11...Get Real !!!

[tmukg21]

Originally Posted by Joseph Camel Jr

I
At the very most, you could argue that Bush & Rice allowed for these attacks to happen, ignoring the data gathered by US intelligence warning of attacks by Bin Laden that would target ""military passenger aircraft" and were "designed to inflict mass casualties against U.S. facilities or interests."

The most logical standpoint to take would be that, at worst, they were incredibly negligent.



Even if we had been behind these attacks, the premises seem a little ridiculous. I have no doubt that we invaded Iraq in part because of interests far removed from homeland security, but to say we set up these attacks in order to invade Iraq or Afghanistan seems far-fetched.

So which one is it NT, the usa govt ignored all the facts or set up the attack? Seems like they set it up by doing nothing (ignoring the warningsword to the Titanic).

You telling me a bunch of Ivy league educated people are this negligent and ignorant

 

[callhimar]

Originally Posted by CJ863

I am concerned about information getting into the public domain that shouldn't be in the public domain -- George W. Bush


This is a quote from Bush regarding President Obama's recent declassification of documents... to me, this statement says A LOT...

The man could have been talking about anything. Literally, anything. He could be talking about Barbara's secret cookie recipe for all we know.

Anyone can make any blanket statement like this one mean anything they want.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

MidEastBeast wrote:
Again, no proof, and just going off old things that happened. Obviously Iraq is using other companies to drill for oil since they lack the technology... that means nothing. The government is not profiting off the oil at all.

I think you are giving the CIA WAY too much credit.

Oh and here is KSM confessing to al-Jazeera: http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/3/15/13351/2245http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/3/15/13351/2245

Obviously, it is faked by the CIA too... duh.
Yes, I really do believe that powerful governments are mostly pure evil, especially the U.S. government. I also believe intelligence agencies playa big part in false flag operations.

Well, to you it is not proof, but to me, it is. We will probably be going in circles forever. But c'mon, those companies are only going in to help withIraq's technology? What kind of a reasoning is that? It is proof of Western superpowers already propping up the major oil tycoons and companies to get holdof Iraq's untapped oil reserves. That is how it starts to be set, and then they overtake it all.

As for the KSM confession to Al-Jazeera, again its authenticity is questionable as a lot of experts have claimed, even to the point Fouda (the interviewer)lied about a lot of things. I was reading this article about it.

I asked you this before...Why is it that on the FBI website, Bin Laden is not accused or wanted for the 9/11 attacks?

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

I just gave you proof, and the KSM interview, which you just ignored.

Also, al-Qaeda is the military wing of the Taliban and what we were fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. The men say they are al-Qaeda themselves..... Go watch any video released by as-Sahab, you can probably read Arabic, in which case it's not hard to see the giant al-Qaeda logos, flags and how they mention membership.

Read interviews of Iraqi's who lived under siege by al-Qaeda in cities such as Ramadi, where they beheaded barbers who cut beards. Those, are not regular iraqi "freedom fighters".....

"federallobserver"

.. I looked at the website webpage and closed it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda_in_Iraqhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda_in_Iraq obviously, it's all faked by Mossad and the CIA.... duh. The interviews, videos, killings, all forged.

It's a big interest of mine too but I can't argue all day, I have a lot of things to do, that's why I've been making shorter posts. I feel debating things like this is ridiculous anyway, I didn't know people denied the existence of al-Qaeda... in 2009...

I'll check back every now and then, but there is no way you can prove to me that al-Qaeda doesn't exist... let alone that the govt. carried out 9/11.

You are not getting what I am saying about Al-Qaeda and how they become to be. They are propped up and they become "Al-Qaeda".

But, to each his own.

I will say, I noticed you are one of the few Arabs I came across that does not believe in the 9/11 conspiracies.

 

[mideastbeast]

The interview, if it's even real, says he lied about the date it was conducted, not what was said.

The elected Iraqi Parliament themselves chose to give the contracts to those companies.. they keep the oil profits.

About the FBI website: http://www.washingtonpost...8/27/AR2006082700687.html

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

The interview, if it's even real, says he lied about the date it was conducted, not what was said.

The elected Iraqi Parliament themselves chose to give the contracts to those companies.. they keep the oil profits.

About the FBI website: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/27/AR2006082700687.htmlhttp://www.washingtonpost...8/27/AR2006082700687.html

But then how does that make Fouda a credible journalist in order to take this interview or "confession" as credible? Also, it was only an audiointerview. Isn't it obvious he has certain biased intentions to make a name for himself?

The Iraqi Parliament did on behalf of the U.S. which drafted the contracts. How can it only be that the Iraqis would only profit out of this? These areAmerican oil companies that are being set up, and you are saying they will not get profits like they do from their oil businesses in oil rich countries such asSaudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates? Iraq alone has 10% of the untapped oil reserves. To say that the big oil companies of Western powers are not tryingto get a hold on it is just ignoring how the world state of affairs operate when it comes to oil trade.

That link provided exactly what I was getting at...He is not listed as being wanted for the 9/11 attacks because there is no evident proof he is behind it andthat is why he has not been formally charged, yet he was charged for other attacks.

"It might seem a little strange from the outside, but it makes sense from a legal point of view," said Kelley, now in private practice. "If I were in government, I'd be troubled if I were asked to put up a wanted picture where no formal charges had been filed, no matter who it was."


Why has he not been formally charged? Why was he never indicted for his alleged role in the 9/11 attacks? That Washington Post article is very wishy washy anddoes not get to the point of answering WHY Osama was never formally charged or indicted. It has been 8 years now.

The Muckracker Report contacted the FBI back in June 2006, and they spoke with Rex Tomb (who was also quoted in the article you posted), Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI, and he said, "The reason why9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden's Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to9/11."
He went on to say:

"The FBI gathers evidence. Once evidence is gathered, it is turned over to the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice then decides whether it has enough evidence to present to a federal grand jury. In the case of the 1998 United States Embassies being bombed, bin Laden has been formally indicted and charged by a grand jury. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting bin Laden to 9/11."


I know you are going to come back at me at claim that website is propaganda, BUT Rex Tomb stands by what he says and even confirmed his quotation in theMuckracker Report article to I.N.N. World Report News Editor, Claire Brown.

Not sure how reliable it is, and I am sure you heard of this...But supposedly on September 28th, it was published in the Pakistani newspaper Ummatquoting Bin Laden as denying his role in the attacks.

 

[nicefro]

1. Everything politics is about money and power, everything.

2. There are two many holes in the story for me to believe that the government had no involvement in 9/11.

I'm not gonna go digging up facts because frankly I don't care that much, but IIRC weren't there people in the buildings who were told not to go towork that day, or fly.

 

[supermanrt41]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

I will stop posting on NT forever if you answer this post I made a while back on a different website:

This doesn't make any sense. Let's say the US government was indeed extremely corrupt to the point of attacking its own people. Now, let's say they either did 9/11 or helped it in being carried out.

** 9/11 Conspiracy Theory Refution **

What was gained ? (It gave Bush increased power, and allowed for the invasion of Afghanistan) - Why would Bush want to invade Afghanistan so badly ? - What has he gained in passing the patriot act ? Has he really gained money from Afghanistan for himself or abused the patriot act to the point of using it as a tool to gain money from ? Nope. By the way, why would al-Qaeda work with the U.S in claiming they in fact attacked the U.S only to have itself be bombed out by the U.S in return ?

Now, before you bring up Iraq.. it was not caused by 9/11. 9/11 was a part of it, but too small to be considered. The root cause was WMD's. Beyond this, why would al-Qaeda work to allow the U.S to invade Iraq and turn around and kill U.S soldiers there ? Why would al-Qaeda continue to accept 9/11 responsibility if the U.S is killing them with the reason that they caused 9/11 ? Does this make any sense to you at all ?

There's only 1 possible way to answer my questions: al-Qaeda is a U.S tool.

If you believe this, I pity you. Why would a U.S tool target Americans/American allies so indiscriminately ? Why is al-Qaeda so loose an organization that I, if I wanted to, could simply go to Afghanistan, learn how to make bombs, and go back to the U.S and kill Americans ? (Before 2001, although still possible today). Would the U.S want its own "tool" training thousands of radicals and sending them out with both a thrist for western blood and more importantly, the means in which to spill it ? Do you realize how big of a problem this would be for the whole western world ? The only answer to that is that every single al-Qaeda member is instructed by the U.S on what to attack. If you believe THIS, well... let's just hope you don't.

Until someone comes up with a valid response to this post, I will consider all 9/11 conspiracy theories disproven and simply copy paste this back when the issue is brought up again.

I'm not gonna read anything after page 1 to refute this....just check this out
"Overthrow" by Stephen Kinzer
"All The Shah's Men" by Stephen Kinzer
You're blind and misinformed GREATLY to think al-Qaeda isn't an American terror product.
Fact: CIA sponsored the overthrow of the Iranian govt in the 1950s
Fact: US Govt BLINDLY spent MILLIONS of American taxpayers money to fund tribal factions in Afghanistan to hurt anddemoralize the Soviets when they invaded Afghanistan during the Cold War
Fact: al-Qaeda was one of the organizations we BLINDLY sponsored with weapons, money and whatever else they needed tohurt the Soviets
Fact: al-Qaeda is around today because we pumped millions of dollars into their organization to help us back when wewere concerned with the Soviets and communism...what we weren't the least bit concerned with was whether or not these organizations we sponsored hated orliked the U.S.A. All we cared about was hurting the Soviet's chances of completing any mission in Afghanistan.
Fact: The U.S. helped get Sadam into power in Iraq AND supported him throughout his tenure...only to head-hunt him adecade later.

Corrupt? Who knows, I'm not one to form opinions - I'd rather find facts.
American power (capitalism) is derived from 3 things: natural resources, markets, labor
Oil is a huge natural resource in the middle east.
Market? Shhhhhhhooooooot, I think the gas-guzzling auto-makers got it covered...oh wait, the entire American society REQUIRES OIL TO SURVIVE
Labor? There's always a labor force to manipulate...we're from the country notoriously known for using cheap migrant labor to build and continuebuilding our empire.

Iraq was going to be invaded no matter what. 9/11 gave us the means to do so without international condemnation.

Go read up a little on our history with regime change and its consequences/results...sometimes the immediate results work and we don't care about how thefuture will be impacted by our decisions to interfere with other's lives....or did you know that American citizens carried out the first regimechange/overthrow back when we overthrew the Hawaiian monarchy. I'm sure you read that in your history books

I can do this all day.....and don't get it twisted - I LOVE being an American...I just hate what our government has to do to feel we're still the mostpowerful/wealthy/best country.

 

[chris boshs neck]

I don't understand how 5 dudes with box cutters of all things took over every plane they wanted. Seriously box cutters..


How do post towers fall demolition style like that. They fell perfectly right under themselves.

Many claim that the fire was burning insanely hot to melt Metal. If you look at the video the fire was smoking a lot and the smoke was very dark, which isproof of a low temp fire, not this insanely hot blaze that they were claiming.

Why is it that 99% of architects all acknowledge that a plane like that would not have brought the towers down like that.

Why is there NO video of a plane hitting the pentagon, Its the flippin pentagon, you telling me there are no video cameras there.

 

[kayway8]

It just seems to me like some people in this thread don't want to face reality.

The man could have been talking about anything. Literally, anything. He could be talking about Barbara's secret cookie recipe for all we know.
Yea because Barbara's secret cookie recipe was the most prominent event that took place during his 2 terms....

Why can't I just say aliens carried out both attacks, of course I have no proof, but I am just as right as you are.

Do you understand how stubborn and ridiculous you sound? If you have CONCRETE and MATERIAL evidence to back that viewpoint, then I'll take your"theory" into consideration. But if you want to remain ignorant, then move on. It's that simple. You know as much about these events as we do.But we've heard all of your arguments through the mass media for the past 7+ years so if you're not bringing anything new to the table.

And since you want everybody to answer your complex questions...I just want you to answer one question for me: IF the government was involved in 9/11, inanyway, shape or form, would they tell us or release information to us regarding it?

That's the only thing I want you to answer for me.

 

[devildog1776]

some people wont realize til its too late...

 

[retr0sxual]

I love conspiracy theories just as much as the next guy, but here's the thing:

What does it profit us to "know" this information (if it's true)? What are you and I, the citizens of the U.S. able to do about it?

If the government really controls everything, then what hope do we have?

"Oh, but that's such a defeatist attitude!!!

"

But it's the truth.

This isn't some Matrix, epic uprising type %%++.

 

[Kev93]

DAMN!

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Originally Posted by retr0sxual

I love conspiracy theories just as much as the next guy, but here's the thing:

What does it profit us to "know" this information (if it's true)? What are you and I, the citizens of the U.S. able to do about it?

If the government really controls everything, then what hope do we have?

"Oh, but that's such a defeatist attitude!!!

"

But it's the truth.

This isn't some Matrix, epic uprising type %%++.

Come on fam.

That is defeatist.

You think the families of 9/11 victims don't deserve to know the truth, the family members of slain US troops and those on active duty, you don't wantto know the truth?

If the real story behind 9/11 came out it would be that much harder for anything like this to ever happen again, in any form.

 

[daytona 5000]

at HAZE and his silly conspiracy theories.
What next, our government sold weapons to Iran in exchange for hostages
and we funded paramilitaries in Central America that used the money to finance
the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians?

 

[shoesbcrack]

Its funny how everything is considered a conspiracy when some of this stuff comes from
CIA and FBI documents. Not dealing directly with 9-11 per se, but so many examples of
the US doing things like this for years. Go look up "Southern Cone" or "CIA-Contra" "Gulf of Tonkin"
and thats just a start.

BTW even if the US didnt create 9-11 they sure didnt try to shoot the planes down did they?
You are telling me our massive army couldnt have sent planes fast enough to intercept? If
we are that weak than we should all be worried.

Accepting every conspiracy is wrong and maybe stupid, but believing you know all the truth is
downright ignorant.

 

[mideastbeast]

So the audio interview was forged by the CIA ?

Yes, the companies get money to help drill the oil, because Iraq CHOSE them.... they would not be able to get the oil otherwise. The oil is still theirs tosell and they keep the profits.

About the bin laden thing, yeah, they are waiting for solid links between him and the attacks before they list it. It does not mean he is innocent. He has avideo tape of him admitting responsibility to the attack. Obviously, the CIA faked it too. I am wondering, he releases tapes about every 6 months for the pastfew years... if the tape was really fake why didn't he call the CIA out on it ? Why has he and others kept taking responsibility for it ? What about theproven links between him and Atta and other hijackers ?

superman- good job summing up a bunch of things I already knew..... you answered nothing.
chris- there is a video... portions have been released already. There are pictures of plane wreckage and dead passengers.
kayway- "If you have CONCRETE and MATERIAL evidence to back that viewpoint, then I'll take your "theory" into consideration." exactly.Where is yours ?

"I just want you to answer one question for me: IF the government was involved in 9/11, in anyway, shape or form, would they tell us or releaseinformation to us regarding it?"

Obviously not. The whole point is the very idea that the government is involved is beyond ******ed and not a single person has been able to answer a few verysimple questions....

Hazel- so what exactly are you saying about al-Qaeda ? The fact is it exists, it has thousands of members who claim membership THEMSELVES, it has carried outhundreds of attacks worldwide before, during and after 9/11 and has thousands more who identify with it. Why would a U.S "tool" so easily provide mewith information on how to make a suicide bomb vest, how to operate various weapons, how to start a terrorist cell all in very handy pdf files easilydownloaded off of dozens of jihad websites ? Does the U.S or Mossad or whoever really want (as has happened) a bunch of angry muslims going around with thewillingness AND - thanks to al-qaeda- the know-how to kill on a large scale at any time and place they choose ?

 

[joseph camel jr]

Originally Posted by ReliantJ

Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000

at HAZE and his silly conspiracy theories.
What next, our government sold weapons to Iran in exchange for hostages
and we funded paramilitaries in Central America that used the money to finance
the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians?

But Reagen was the GOAT

.
Either way, I'm sure the government isn't telling the citizens everything, but I also don't think they're directly responsible (as in planned it).

What's the difference between that and this?

A little thing called evidence.

Until some comes up, it's all speculation.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

So the audio interview was forged by the CIA ?

Yes, the companies get money to help drill the oil, because Iraq CHOSE them.... they would not be able to get the oil otherwise. The oil is still theirs to sell and they keep the profits.

About the bin laden thing, yeah, they are waiting for solid links between him and the attacks before they list it. It does not mean he is innocent. He has a video tape of him admitting responsibility to the attack. Obviously, the CIA faked it too. I am wondering, he releases tapes about every 6 months for the past few years... if the tape was really fake why didn't he call the CIA out on it ? Why has he and others kept taking responsibility for it ? What about the proven links between him and Atta and other hijackers ?

Hazel- so what exactly are you saying about al-Qaeda ? The fact is it exists, it has thousands of members who identify with it THEMSELVES, it has carried out hundreds of attacks worldwide before, during and after 9/11 and has thousands more who identify with it.

I have not heard the audio myself...Let us say it is authentic, then what guarantees it was not done after his capture and having endured torture,since Fouda admits to lying about when it was recorded?

Of course the Iraqi government would have a hand in profit.Who is denying that?But, are you denying that these Anglo-American/European oil conglomerates andcountries would get profits out of this too? I am not getting at what you are saying.

You just proved my point...There is no hard evidence linking Bin Laden to the 9/11 attacks and that is why he has not been formally charged or indictedfor his alleged role in the attacks. Who says the tapes are authentic? Here is a thought, if all these video tapes and audios are all authentic as youclaim they are, then why can't they use all this to formally charge him? Isn't that enough evidence then?

Didn't Atta's dad claim he spoke to him after September 11th? What proven links has there been? Didn't some of the supposed hijackers turn out tobe alive?

All these terrorist cells that are present now, in a way it does not mean they are all linked with the original "Al-Qaeda". It is whether they werepropped up to become part of this phatom enemy or they are actual Arab terrorist militant groups that identify with the "Al-Qaeda" cause. Infact,most of these militant terrorist groups are locally based, not international, and are fighting against U.S. troops and the occupation of their countries. Mostof the "terrorist" groups, fredom fighters, militants (whatever you want to call them) in Iraq are linked to Saddam's Baath party and operateunder former military advisors of the former regime, or whether they are Shiite linked militia to Al Sadr and other hard liners against the U.S. occupation. Asfor Afghanistan, it is local tribesmen or people against the U.S./NATO occupation and who are linked to the Taliban.

 

[devildog1776]

Originally Posted by ShoesBcRack

Its funny how everything is considered a conspiracy when some of this stuff comes from
CIA and FBI documents. Not dealing directly with 9-11 per se, but so many examples of
the US doing things like this for years. Go look up "Southern Cone" or "CIA-Contra" "Gulf of Tonkin"
and thats just a start.

BTW even if the US didnt create 9-11 they sure didnt try to shoot the planes down did they?
You are telling me our massive army couldnt have sent planes fast enough to intercept? If
we are that weak than we should all be worried.

Accepting every conspiracy is wrong and maybe stupid, but believing you know all the truth is
downright ignorant.

exactly NORAD can scramble jets with a couple phone calls.... it takes no time to get the word.. they waited at least 45 minutes!!!!!!! b4 they even got theword to have it approved... the most defensive country in the world took 45 minutes to scramble jet fighter into NYC airspace... _ please

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Originally Posted by Joseph Camel Jr

Originally Posted by ReliantJ

Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000

at HAZE and his silly conspiracy theories.
What next, our government sold weapons to Iran in exchange for hostages
and we funded paramilitaries in Central America that used the money to finance
the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians?

But Reagen was the GOAT

.
Either way, I'm sure the government isn't telling the citizens everything, but I also don't think they're directly responsible (as in planned it).

What's the difference between that and this?

A little thing called evidence.

Until some comes up, it's all speculation.

Well those things came out decades ago and declassified information has proven them to be true.

9/11 is very recent and there is still a wealth of information pointing towards gov't involvement.

Expect the lid to be closed much tighter on something of this magnitude...but no lie lasts forever.

 

[joseph camel jr]

Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

Originally Posted by Joseph Camel Jr

Originally Posted by ReliantJ

Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000

at HAZE and his silly conspiracy theories.
What next, our government sold weapons to Iran in exchange for hostages
and we funded paramilitaries in Central America that used the money to finance
the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians?

But Reagen was the GOAT

.
Either way, I'm sure the government isn't telling the citizens everything, but I also don't think they're directly responsible (as in planned it).

What's the difference between that and this?

A little thing called evidence.

Until some comes up, it's all speculation.

Well those things came out decades ago and declassified information has proven them to be true.

9/11 is very recent and there is still a wealth of information pointing towards gov't involvement.

Expect the lid to be closed much tighter on something of this magnitude...but no lie lasts forever.

Strong overstatement.

At best, it raises a few questions, but provides little in the way of answers.

 

[retr0sxual]

Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

Originally Posted by retr0sxual

I love conspiracy theories just as much as the next guy, but here's the thing:

What does it profit us to "know" this information (if it's true)? What are you and I, the citizens of the U.S. able to do about it?

If the government really controls everything, then what hope do we have?

"Oh, but that's such a defeatist attitude!!!

"

But it's the truth.

This isn't some Matrix, epic uprising type %%++.

Come on fam.

That is defeatist.

You think the families of 9/11 victims don't deserve to know the truth, the family members of slain US troops and those on active duty, you don't want to know the truth?

If the real story behind 9/11 came out it would be that much harder for anything like this to ever happen again, in any form.

I agree. It's completely defeatist. However, it's the truth.

Of course I believe the families should know what "really" happened, if it happened in a way other than how we've been told it had happened. Iwant to know the "truth" also.

But let's say the government was, in some capacity, involved in 9/11... what can we, the citizens of the U.S., do with that information? It's not likewe can take it to the Supreme Court.

It is a good thing to be educated on the subject. I will not debate that. My argument lies in the application of this knowledge.

 

[mo matik]

I don't know what to believe.

But for those who are so quick to deny any conspiracy, ask yourself this:

How realistic is it to just assume that the people running our government, highly trained educated people, just looked over a report on the attack andcompletely disregarded it?

People love to look at Bush and say "Oh he's a moron." But honestly, he isn't. He's a Yale graduate. He knows what he's doing,he's an educated man, surrounded by other educated people.

That being said, again, how realistic is it to believe that our government had the report, and completely disregarded it? The only way it makes sense is ifyou label the Bush administration as incompetent, a label the media has imposed upon them. But I can't stress this enough now, they are not incompetent. They are not children. They know exactly what they are doing.

 

[daytona 5000]

Did you guys know that Bush's brother was the head of security for the WTC.
I'm not saying.....but I'm just saying

and i think it was wawaweewa who came through one day with all those charts showing all the movement on wall street prior to or after the attack.
A lot of pockets got lined because of 9/11, I'll tell you tht.