Stupid Conspiracy Theorists...Gov't involved in 9/11...Get Real !!!

[mideastbeast]

Okay, nothing I didn't know already.

Clinton was funding the Mujahideen in Bosnia and some weapons went through an organization affiliated with Osama and Abdel Rahman....

A far cry from what you said about them (al-qaeda + U.S) literally working together on a military and strategic level, and still no proof at all for 9/11.

What about the Oil ? and the "gains" we have gotten from Iraq and Afghanistan ?

The case that has been made thus far is RIDICULOUSLY weak. I hope you have more compelling evidence....

 

[joseph camel jr]

Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

Originally Posted by nick0lis


yes, they did answer every question you had, maybe just not the answer you wanted.

Thank you.


http://www.youtube.com/v/9_qBtOGnAAo&hl=en&fs=1

This was one of the major points of Fahrenheit 911. Nothing new, and nothing significant.

The Carlyle Group didn't even profit from the "war on terror" as much as several other PE firms.

You could point things out like this all day, but without a shred of real evidence it's just another theory.


Fun fact: George Soros was a much bigger investor than Bush. Off-topic, but funny in a way.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

I will stop posting on NT forever if you answer this post I made a while back on a different website:

This doesn't make any sense. Let's say the US government was indeed extremely corrupt to the point of attacking its own people. Now, let's say they either did 9/11 or helped it in being carried out.

** 9/11 Conspiracy Theory Refution **

What was gained ? (It gave Bush increased power, and allowed for the invasion of Afghanistan) - Why would Bush want to invade Afghanistan so badly ? - What has he gained in passing the patriot act ? Has he really gained money from Afghanistan for himself or abused the patriot act to the point of using it as a tool to gain money from ? Nope. By the way, why would al-Qaeda work with the U.S in claiming they in fact attacked the U.S only to have itself be bombed out by the U.S in return ?

I will give a shot in answering your questions.

A lot has been gained. There are many reasons to invade Afghanistan. Afghanistan and Iraq are very important strategic regions in that part of the world,especially in a geo-political context. Afghanistan has a lot of the oil pipelines that run through it to the Caspian sea, and it is also a gateway to theCaucasus region. It has been already mentioned how Afghanistan is very important for the opium and drug trade for the U.S. government. The illicit drug worldis one of the ways governments make money and profit, especially superpower governments. In 2001, the Taliban put in place the most successful drug eradicationprogram, and this did not fly with the U.S. government. Infact, the opium trade in Afghanistan was started during the Soviet-Afghan war and spearheaded by theCIA. They would get the profits from the opium trade to buy weapons to give to the mujahideens. As of today, the opium production has skyrocketed to an immenselevel since the U.S. invaded Afghanistan. Of course, this is no surprise.

The U.S. government, not Bush, has gained from the Patriot act. It is a way to allow the government to expand its powers and take away people's rights inthe name of fighting terrorism. It can be anything from being able to spy on the masses or to override privacy rights. It gives the government more control onthe population.

Where is your proof Al-Qaida was behind the 9/11 attacks?

Now, before you bring up Iraq.. it was not caused by 9/11. 9/11 was a part of it, but too small to be considered. The root cause was WMD's. Beyond this, why would al-Qaeda work to allow the U.S to invade Iraq and turn around and kill U.S soldiers there ? Why would al-Qaeda continue to accept 9/11 responsibility if the U.S is killing them with the reason that they caused 9/11 ? Does this make any sense to you at all ?


The reason to attack Iraq was not WMDs. The U.S. government knew Saddam had no WMDs ever since he got rid of them in the early to mid 90s. Iraq is a veryimportant strategic area due to the vast amounts of oil it sits on. Along with the illicit drug trade, the oil trade is one of the biggest means of profit forgovernments and big businesses around the world. Saddam was also getting in the way of their imperialist and colonial conquest of the Middle East, so they hadto bring him down any way they can and implement "regime change". Saddam was also a big threat to Israel, and the U.S. wanted to shift the balanceand re-arrange the powers in that region. They will also use Iraq as a centre, in which from there they will be able to create a domino effect to influence theother Middle Eastern countries and ensure their grip on their allies in that region.

Again, where is the proof Al-Qaida was behind 9/11?

There's only 1 possible way to answer my questions: al-Qaeda is a U.S tool.

If you believe this, I pity you. Why would a U.S tool target Americans/American allies so indiscriminately ? Why is al-Qaeda so loose an organization that I, if I wanted to, could simply go to Afghanistan, learn how to make bombs, and go back to the U.S and kill Americans ? (Before 2001, although still possible today). Would the U.S want its own "tool" training thousands of radicals and sending them out with both a thrist for western blood and more importantly, the means in which to spill it ? Do you realize how big of a problem this would be for the whole western world ? The only answer to that is that every single al-Qaeda member is instructed by the U.S on what to attack. If you believe THIS, well... let's just hope you don't.

Until someone comes up with a valid response to this post, I will consider all 9/11 conspiracy theories disproven and simply copy paste this back when the issue is brought up again.


Why did the U.S. train all the mujahideens and all these "islamist" paramilitary groups in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Bosnia, etc.? They use them fortheir own means so these groups can fight for U.S. interests in those regions.

Also, whenever they say it is Al-Qaida or an offshoot cell of Al-Qaida that is responsible for attacks, how are you sure that it is so legit that it is?Infact, who really are Al-Qaida?

Then again, and I will ask one more time, where is the proof Al-Qaida is behind 9/11?

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

Okay, nothing I didn't know already.

Clinton was funding the Mujahideen in Bosnia and some weapons went through an organization affiliated with Osama and Abdel Rahman....

A far cry from what you said about them (al-qaeda + U.S) literally working together on a military and strategic level, and still no proof at all for 9/11.

What about the Oil ? and the "gains" we have gotten from Iraq and Afghanistan ?

The case that has been made thus far is RIDICULOUSLY weak. I hope you have more compelling evidence....

I do not even think the name Al-Qaida came about as being the name of a specific terrorist cell group until 9/11. How can I explain to you whatAl-Qaida is when it is just nothing anyways? It does not really exist.

For example, a couple of years ago, it came out in the open how Mossad was going around setting up fake Al-Qaeda terrorist cells in the Occupied Territories.The intelligence agents were going around calling men telling them they are members of Al-Qaeda and trying to recruit them in their "cell". That isexactly how the CIA does it too. I am trying to find the article I read in Ha'aretz of how Mossad was doing it, but this is what I found so far...

Officials from the Palestinian Authority have accused the Israeli spy agency Mossad of setting up a fake al-Qaeda terrorist cell in Gaza. Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat said that Israel had set up the mock cell in order to justify attacks in Palestinian areas

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2546863.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2546863.stm

A lot of supposed Al-Qaeda members also turn out to be double agents and members of intelligence services.

So, Al-Qaeda is just fake. It is created through intelligence services recruiting members or pretending it is terrorist cells in order to create an"enemy" to fight.

I watched this BBC film documentary, The Power ofNightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear, on how the "War on Terror" is used to place fear into the masses in order forgovernments to gain control and to be able to do what they want for their own means and interests .

I like this quote I find online from the film:

"There are dangerous and fanatical individuals and groups around the world who have been inspired by extreme Islamist ideas and who will use the techniques of mass terror - the attacks on America and Madrid make this only too clear. But the nightmare vision of a uniquely powerful hidden organization waiting to strike our societies is an illusion. Wherever one looks for this Al Qaeda organization, from the mountains of Afghanistan to the 'sleeper cells' in America, the British and Americans are chasing a phantom enemy."

 

[mideastbeast]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

I will stop posting on NT forever if you answer this post I made a while back on a different website:

This doesn't make any sense. Let's say the US government was indeed extremely corrupt to the point of attacking its own people. Now, let's say they either did 9/11 or helped it in being carried out.

** 9/11 Conspiracy Theory Refution **

What was gained ? (It gave Bush increased power, and allowed for the invasion of Afghanistan) - Why would Bush want to invade Afghanistan so badly ? - What has he gained in passing the patriot act ? Has he really gained money from Afghanistan for himself or abused the patriot act to the point of using it as a tool to gain money from ? Nope. By the way, why would al-Qaeda work with the U.S in claiming they in fact attacked the U.S only to have itself be bombed out by the U.S in return ?

I will give a shot in answering your questions.

A lot has been gained. There are many reasons to invade Afghanistan. Afghanistan and Iraq are very important strategic regions in that part of the world, especially in a geo-political context. Afghanistan has a lot of the oil pipelines that run through it to the Caspian sea, and it is also a gateway to the Caucasus region. It has been already mentioned how Afghanistan is very important for the opium and drug trade for the U.S. government. The illicit drug world is one of the ways governments make money and profit, especially superpower governments. In 2001, the Taliban put in place the most successful drug eradication program, and this did not fly with the U.S. government. Infact, the opium trade in Afghanistan was started during the Soviet-Afghan war and spearheaded by the CIA. They would get the profits from the opium trade to buy weapons to give to the mujahideens. As of today, the opium production has skyrocketed to an immense level since the U.S. invaded Afghanistan. Of course, this is no surprise.

The U.S. government, not Bush, has gained from the Patriot act. It is a way to allow the government to expand its powers and take away people's rights in the name of fighting terrorism. It can be anything from being able to spy on the masses or to override privacy rights. It gives the government more control on the population.

Where is your proof Al-Qaida was behind the 9/11 attacks?

Now, before you bring up Iraq.. it was not caused by 9/11. 9/11 was a part of it, but too small to be considered. The root cause was WMD's. Beyond this, why would al-Qaeda work to allow the U.S to invade Iraq and turn around and kill U.S soldiers there ? Why would al-Qaeda continue to accept 9/11 responsibility if the U.S is killing them with the reason that they caused 9/11 ? Does this make any sense to you at all ?

The reason to attack Iraq was not WMDs. The U.S. government knew Saddam had no WMDs ever since he got rid of them in the early to mid 90s. Iraq is a very important strategic area due to the vast amounts of oil it sits on. Along with the illicit drug trade, the oil trade is one of the biggest means of profit for governments and big businesses around the world. Saddam was also getting in the way of their imperialist and colonial conquest of the Middle East, so they had to bring him down any way they can and implement "regime change". Saddam was also a big threat to Israel, and the U.S. wanted to shift the balance and re-arrange the powers in that region. They will also use Iraq as a centre, in which from there they will be able to create a domino effect to influence the other Middle Eastern countries and ensure their grip on their allies in that region.

Again, where is the proof Al-Qaida was behind 9/11?

There's only 1 possible way to answer my questions: al-Qaeda is a U.S tool.

If you believe this, I pity you. Why would a U.S tool target Americans/American allies so indiscriminately ? Why is al-Qaeda so loose an organization that I, if I wanted to, could simply go to Afghanistan, learn how to make bombs, and go back to the U.S and kill Americans ? (Before 2001, although still possible today). Would the U.S want its own "tool" training thousands of radicals and sending them out with both a thrist for western blood and more importantly, the means in which to spill it ? Do you realize how big of a problem this would be for the whole western world ? The only answer to that is that every single al-Qaeda member is instructed by the U.S on what to attack. If you believe THIS, well... let's just hope you don't.

Until someone comes up with a valid response to this post, I will consider all 9/11 conspiracy theories disproven and simply copy paste this back when the issue is brought up again.


Why did the U.S. train all the mujahideens and all these "islamist" paramilitary groups in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Bosnia, etc.? They use them for their own means so these groups can fight for U.S. interests in those regions.

Also, whenever they say it is Al-Qaida or an offshoot cell of Al-Qaida that is responsible for attacks, how are you sure that it is so legit that it is? Infact, who really are Al-Qaida?

Then again, and I will ask one more time, where is the proof Al-Qaida is behind 9/11?
Proof the government profiting off the opium sales right now ?

Proof we are profiting off the oil ?

Yea, the government gets more power with the patriot act.... they didn't really do much with it. It was passed to prevent terrorism anyway.





I know he had no WMD's.... WMD's were however the main reason the war got approved. That was what I was talking about. You bringup oil again, so again, proof ?

Also, you ignored the following questions: Beyond this, why would al-Qaeda work to allow the U.S to invade Iraq and turn aroundand kill U.S soldiers there ? Why would al-Qaeda continue to accept 9/11 responsibility if the U.S is killing them with the reason that they caused 9/11 ? Doesthis make any sense to you at all ?





Again, you ignored pretty much everything I wrote and basically asked me about al-Qaeda... well, let me clear it up.

There are dozens of witnesses to Atta's radicalization in Germany and involvment with the other hijackers, footage of them boarding the plane, videos ofthe hijackers claiming responsibility, videos and speaches of al-Qaeda claiming responsibility, confessions from KSM and others, a history of attack on theWTC, videos of flight manuals etc etc filmed by al-Qaeda themselves.... many more. Of course, this is all forged by the CIA.

Don't forget the interview of KSM by al-Jazeera before he was interrogatedwhere he admitted responsibility, just in case you claim the KSM confession was forced.

Anyway, who is al-Qaeda ? Ask the marines that fought them in the fall of '01... and now the expansions into Iraq....the continued global attacks... thecontinued messages from their leaders.... the continued recruitment efforts....the training camps they had... defecting members.... are you seriously denyingal-Qaeda's existance ?

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

"There are dangerous and fanatical individuals and groups around the world who have been inspired by extreme Islamist ideas and who will use the techniques of mass terror - the attacks on America and Madrid make this only too clear. But the nightmare vision of a uniquely powerful hidden organization waiting to strike our societies is an illusion. Wherever one looks for this Al Qaeda organization, from the mountains of Afghanistan to the 'sleeper cells' in America, the British and Americans are chasing a phantom enemy."

Great quote.

Here what 30 year CIA agent and one of the worlds foremost experts on Bin Laden and Middle Eastern militant groups had to day about 9/11 and the mythical OsamaBin Laden ....

http://www.youtube.com/v/Wn61PJQGCUo&hl=en&fs=1

"I'm just not convinced it was Bin Laden...I think Osama Bin Laden has become ametaphor"

 

[abeautifulhaze]

http://www.youtube.com/v/N87tA5t0maE&hl=en&fs=1http://www.youtube.com/v/N87tA5t0maE&hl=en&fs=1

 

[mideastbeast]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

Okay, nothing I didn't know already.

Clinton was funding the Mujahideen in Bosnia and some weapons went through an organization affiliated with Osama and Abdel Rahman....

A far cry from what you said about them (al-qaeda + U.S) literally working together on a military and strategic level, and still no proof at all for 9/11.

What about the Oil ? and the "gains" we have gotten from Iraq and Afghanistan ?

The case that has been made thus far is RIDICULOUSLY weak. I hope you have more compelling evidence....

I do not even think the name Al-Qaida came about as being the name of a specific terrorist cell group until 9/11. How can I explain to you what Al-Qaida is when it is just nothing anyways? It does not really exist.

For example, a couple of years ago, it came out in the open how Mossad was going around setting up fake Al-Qaeda terrorist cells in the Occupied Territories. The intelligence agents were going around calling men telling them they are members of Al-Qaeda and trying to recruit them in their "cell". That is exactly how the CIA does it too. I am trying to find the article I read in Ha'aretz of how Mossad was doing it, but this is what I found so far...

Officials from the Palestinian Authority have accused the Israeli spy agency Mossad of setting up a fake al-Qaeda terrorist cell in Gaza. Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat said that Israel had set up the mock cell in order to justify attacks in Palestinian areas

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2546863.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2546863.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2546863.stm

A lot of supposed Al-Qaeda members also turn out to be double agents and members of intelligence services.

So, Al-Qaeda is just fake. It is created through intelligence services recruiting members or pretending it is terrorist cells in order to create an "enemy" to fight.

I watched this BBC film documentary, The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear, on how the "War on Terror" is used to place fear into the masses in order for governments to gain control and to be able to do what they want for their own means and interests .

I like this quote I find online from the film:

"There are dangerous and fanatical individuals and groups around the world who have been inspired by extreme Islamist ideas and who will use the techniques of mass terror - the attacks on America and Madrid make this only too clear. But the nightmare vision of a uniquely powerful hidden organization waiting to strike our societies is an illusion. Wherever one looks for this Al Qaeda organization, from the mountains of Afghanistan to the 'sleeper cells' in America, the British and Americans are chasing a phantom enemy."



An accusation by Arafat and a documentary are not really going to convince me that al-Qaeda is "fake". Are the thousands we fought in Torra Borra andal-Anbar (SP) all mossad agents ? Is Osama himself a Mossad agent ? Do you see how crazy these things get ? I think you are getting too caught up and believingwhat you want to believe and end up ignoring the huge blatantly obvious evidence that is everywhere......

I mean... al-Qaeda has the media wing "as-Sahab" which releases tapes of attacks, bombings, beheadins, speeches... are all these fake ? carried outby Mossad ? Did you know that they teach you how to make bombs for the purpose of use against America/Israel ?

Why would double agents teach young angry arabs how to kill americans and jews... that defeats the purpose. Peep the London attacks, the Spain train attacksetc... those are examples of it.

You seem like a smart and reasonable minded person from what I saw before but I think now you are just letting personal feelings get in the way of the obviousevidence

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

Proof the government profiting off the opium sales right now ?

Proof we are profiting off the oil ?

Yea, the government gets more power with the patriot act.... they didn't really do much with it. It was passed to prevent terrorism anyway.

You mean proof that they are profiting from the sales of opium and oil? Well, if I can get to classified U.S. documents, that would help

But,it is just commen sense. Again, remember who spearheaded the opium drug trade and made profits from it during the Soviet-Afghan war, the CIA and the U.S.government. Why do you think they installed Karzai as the leader of Afghanistan, who is also a CIA asset? President Karzai and those politicians in power overthere are all involved in the heroin trade and they are known to be drug warlords.

It is also just commen sense due to how the illicit drug trade is operated by intelligence services like the CIA as we have seen in the pastand how it happens still today. Do you know the history of how the CIA was also involved in the drug trade in Indochina and Central America? The French, aswell as the American intelligence, were very deeply involved in the heroin trade in Vietnam and Laos as a way to back up anti-Communist guerilla fighters. Thisis also how it happened in Afghanistan during the Soviet-Afghan war. It also happens in Central America where the CIA collaborates with cocaine-dealing membersof anti-Communist Contras.

So then tell me, why is it that under U.S. occupation, Afghanistan has become the world's leading narco-state, surpassing even Colombia, and now producing90% of the world's heroin? Let us no forget that half of the nation's GDP is made up of drug money. The U.S. government has even called off efforts bythe DEA to fight the Afghan drug trade. Why is this the case?

As for oil, they will be making profit once the whole oil business and tycoons by the U.S. affliated companies get going...It is no secret at all how the U.S.has already drafted plans to set up oil businesses in Iraq even before the invasion of Iraq as stated in this BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/h...mes/newsnight/4354269.stm

Also, in June 2008, the Iraqi government signed key oil contracts to British and US companies which includes Shell, BP, Exxon Mobil, Chevron and Total. Thecontract provides these companies access to Iraq's vast untapped oil fields, and the U.S. state department was heavily involved in drawing up thecontracts. Even Alan Greenspan, the former chairman of the Federal Reserve, has proclaimed, "Everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil."

Beyond this, why would al-Qaeda work to allow the U.S to invade Iraq and turn around and kill U.S soldiers there ? Why would al-Qaeda continue to accept 9/11 responsibility if the U.S is killing them with the reason that they caused 9/11 ? Does this make any sense to you at all ?

Again, you ignored pretty much everything I wrote and basically asked me about al-Qaeda... well, let me clear it up.

There are dozens of witnesses to Atta's radicalization in Germany and involvment with the other hijackers, footage of them boarding the plane, videos of the hijackers claiming responsibility, videos and speaches of al-Qaeda claiming responsibility, confessions from KSM and others, a history of attack on the WTC, videos of flight manuals etc etc filmed by al-Qaeda themselves.... many more. Of course, this is all forged by the CIA.

Don't forget the interview of KSM by al-Jazeera before he was interrogated where he admitted responsibility, just in case you claim the KSM confession was forced.

Anyway, who is al-Qaeda ? Ask the marines that fought them in the fall of '01... and now the expansions into Iraq....the continued global attacks... the continued messages from their leaders.... the continued recruitment efforts....the training camps they had... defecting members.... are you seriously denying al-Qaeda's existance ?

I answered all those answers previously about Al-Qaeda in general terms. As for the"proof" Al-Qaeda did it, most of that "evidence" you gave out was provided by the U.S. government and the CIA. Of course, as you arealready laughing about it, I will not believe it. Where is this KSM "confession" to Al-Jazeera you speak of? As for him confessing to U.S. officials,we all know it was done under the torture technique of waterboarding.

So, tell me, on FBI's most wanted list under Bin Laden, why is he not accused or wanted for the 9/11 attacks?

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast


An accusation by Arafat and a documentary are not really going to convince me that al-Qaeda is "fake". Are the thousands we fought in Torra Borra and al-Anbar (SP) all mossad agents ? Is Osama himself a Mossad agent ? Do you see how crazy these things get ? I think you are getting too caught up and believing what you want to believe and end up ignoring the huge blatantly obvious evidence that is everywhere......

I mean... al-Qaeda has the media wing "as-Sahab" which releases tapes of attacks, bombings, beheadins, speeches... are all these fake ? carried out by Mossad ? Did you know that they teach you how to make bombs for the purpose of use against America/Israel ?

Why would double agents teach young angry arabs how to kill americans and jews... that defeats the purpose. Peep the London attacks, the Spain train attacks etc... those are examples of it.

You seem like a smart and reasonable minded person from what I saw before but I think now you are just letting personal feelings get in the way of the obvious evidence

You completely misread or misinterpreted what I said.

I did not say Mossad is responsible for all this. I said that the way it is set up to form Al-Qaeda is by techniques such as what Mossad did in this case. TheCIA, MI5,etc. all use these techniques too. That story about Mossad trying to set up Al-Qaeda in the Occupied Territories is not an accusation by Arafat. Itwas also reported in Haaretz as fact. It goes beyond that too.

Also, these offshoots who claim they are part of "Al-Qaeda" are not really part of it. They just claim they are to popularize their name and are alsoat times recruited such as by intelligence operatives setting them up. Who says that the London and Spain terror attacks also did not have the centralintelligence agencies of their governments involved in them?

Are you kidding me about double agents? Do you even know how intelligence agencies function and their history? Do you know about false flag operations?

No, I am not letting my feelings get in the way. I just believe all this through logic. Simple as that.

Maybe not everything of how I think it is is real to a tee, but I do truly believe this whole War on Terror is just bogus.

 

[joseph camel jr]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Who says that the London and Spain terror attacks also did not have the central intelligence agencies of their governments involved in them?

This is the kind of reasoning that's been all too common in this thread.

Because something can't be solidly disproved doesn't make it true. It's all right to speculate, but realize that's all you can do at thispoint.

 

[dathbgboy]

The only Govt conspiracies I have faith in are the JFK assassination and Area 51. Only involvement the Govt had in the 9/11 attack was the fact that theyneglected valuable information which may have prevented it from happening....the same thing happend w/ Pearl Harbor

 

[cj863]

I am concerned about information getting into the public domain that shouldn't be in the public domain -- George W. Bush


This is a quote from Bush regarding President Obama's recent declassification of documents... to me, this statement says A LOT...

 

[tmukg21]

Originally Posted by Dathbgboy

The only Govt conspiracies I have faith in are the JFK assassination and Area 51. Only involvement the Govt had in the 9/11 attack was the fact that they neglected valuable information which may have prevented it from happening....the same thing happend w/ Pearl Harbor

that makes the govt involved, for doing nothing; gift of knowledge you must do something with it (it thatmakes sense

)

Your doing nothing tells the American people you can't be trusted,, i mean it is their elected govt

 

[devildog1776]

If any one knows about the war in Iraq it would be me... I was there in 04 when it was just popping off and not one day did we have ANY intelligence on WMD orAl Queda operatives... It was always random "terrorist" or what I like to call them freedom fighters ..... We never got close to finding anythingthat made Iraq a threat to the world... yhat place was so behind in the times it would've been impoosible to have WMD... they barely had decent electricityin their homes....come on.

I was in NY on 9/11 actually on CHAMBERS St.... which is 5 blocks from WTC..... there were explosions at that area . My best friend worked on the 3rd floor atthe time... and he told me as soon as he got home that day that he heard BOMBS GOING OFF...

there was alot of things to be gained from 9/11... examples you can look up if you like
- heroin import has risen over 500% since the invasion of afghan
- US bases are being planned for construction in Baghdad
- US embassy in Iraq
- Oil profiteers have made the most money in history 123 BILLION LAST YR ALONE LOLOLOLOLOL
- Contractors from both SECURITY AND CONSTRUCTION have made BILLIONS since March 2003( date of invasion) ie HALIBURTON, KGB , BLACKWATER
- Cheneys HALIBURTON ties are non--debatable


the proof is in the pudding ....

 

[xxhonchoxx]

My parents think this.

 

[mideastbeast]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast


An accusation by Arafat and a documentary are not really going to convince me that al-Qaeda is "fake". Are the thousands we fought in Torra Borra and al-Anbar (SP) all mossad agents ? Is Osama himself a Mossad agent ? Do you see how crazy these things get ? I think you are getting too caught up and believing what you want to believe and end up ignoring the huge blatantly obvious evidence that is everywhere......

I mean... al-Qaeda has the media wing "as-Sahab" which releases tapes of attacks, bombings, beheadins, speeches... are all these fake ? carried out by Mossad ? Did you know that they teach you how to make bombs for the purpose of use against America/Israel ?

Why would double agents teach young angry arabs how to kill americans and jews... that defeats the purpose. Peep the London attacks, the Spain train attacks etc... those are examples of it.

You seem like a smart and reasonable minded person from what I saw before but I think now you are just letting personal feelings get in the way of the obvious evidence

You completely misread or misinterpreted what I said.

I did not say Mossad is responsible for all this. I said that the way it is set up to form Al-Qaeda is by techniques such as what Mossad did in this case. The CIA, MI5,etc. all use these techniques too. That story about Mossad trying to set up Al-Qaeda in the Occupied Territories is not an accusation by Arafat. It was also reported in Haaretz as fact. It goes beyond that too.

Also, these offshoots who claim they are part of "Al-Qaeda" are not really part of it. They just claim they are to popularize their name and are also at times recruited such as by intelligence operatives setting them up. Who says that the London and Spain terror attacks also did not have the central intelligence agencies of their governments involved in them?

Are you kidding me about double agents? Do you even know how intelligence agencies function and their history? Do you know about false flag operations?

No, I am not letting my feelings get in the way. I just believe all this through logic. Simple as that.

Maybe not everything of how I think it is is real to a tee, but I do truly believe this whole War on Terror is just bogus.

I don't even know how to respond.

First of all, only link you gave was an accusation by Arafat, which really holds no water. You keep poking fun at the Mossad/Double agent thing but youdon't want to answer... if not them than who did the marines fight in al-Anbar and Torra Borra ? Who were those men fighting to protect bin laden andcalling themselves al-Qaeda ? Proof of london/spain attack connections ? You just make the ridiculous claim that the agencies might be involved in it with ZEROproof..... that's why I hate arguing with conspiracy theorists. Why can't I just say aliens carried out both attacks, of course I have no proof, but Iam just as right as you are.

So tell me again, who is making the as-Sahab videos ? You know, the ones with giant al-Qaeda banners in the back as some guy is getting beheaded and the peopleread a speech at the start praising al-Qaeda and Osama.... and letters intercepted between the two.....

 

[mideastbeast]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

Proof the government profiting off the opium sales right now ?

Proof we are profiting off the oil ?

Yea, the government gets more power with the patriot act.... they didn't really do much with it. It was passed to prevent terrorism anyway.

You mean proof that they are profiting from the sales of opium and oil? Well, if I can get to classified U.S. documents, that would help

But, it is just commen sense. Again, remember who spearheaded the opium drug trade and made profits from it during the Soviet-Afghan war, the CIA and the U.S. government. Why do you think they installed Karzai as the leader of Afghanistan, who is also a CIA asset? President Karzai and those politicians in power over there are all involved in the heroin trade and they are known to be drug warlords.

It is also just commen sense due to how the illicit drug trade is operated by intelligence services like the CIA as we have seen in the past and how it happens still today. Do you know the history of how the CIA was also involved in the drug trade in Indochina and Central America? The French, as well as the American intelligence, were very deeply involved in the heroin trade in Vietnam and Laos as a way to back up anti-Communist guerilla fighters. This is also how it happened in Afghanistan during the Soviet-Afghan war. It also happens in Central America where the CIA collaborates with cocaine-dealing members of anti-Communist Contras.

So then tell me, why is it that under U.S. occupation, Afghanistan has become the world's leading narco-state, surpassing even Colombia, and now producing 90% of the world's heroin? Let us no forget that half of the nation's GDP is made up of drug money. The U.S. government has even called off efforts by the DEA to fight the Afghan drug trade. Why is this the case?

As for oil, they will be making profit once the whole oil business and tycoons by the U.S. affliated companies get going...It is no secret at all how the U.S. has already drafted plans to set up oil businesses in Iraq even before the invasion of Iraq as stated in this BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/h...mes/newsnight/4354269.stm

Also, in June 2008, the Iraqi government signed key oil contracts to British and US companies which includes Shell, BP, Exxon Mobil, Chevron and Total. The contract provides these companies access to Iraq's vast untapped oil fields, and the U.S. state department was heavily involved in drawing up the contracts. Even Alan Greenspan, the former chairman of the Federal Reserve, has proclaimed, "Everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil."

Beyond this, why would al-Qaeda work to allow the U.S to invade Iraq and turn around and kill U.S soldiers there ? Why would al-Qaeda continue to accept 9/11 responsibility if the U.S is killing them with the reason that they caused 9/11 ? Does this make any sense to you at all ?

Again, you ignored pretty much everything I wrote and basically asked me about al-Qaeda... well, let me clear it up.

There are dozens of witnesses to Atta's radicalization in Germany and involvment with the other hijackers, footage of them boarding the plane, videos of the hijackers claiming responsibility, videos and speaches of al-Qaeda claiming responsibility, confessions from KSM and others, a history of attack on the WTC, videos of flight manuals etc etc filmed by al-Qaeda themselves.... many more. Of course, this is all forged by the CIA.

Don't forget the interview of KSM by al-Jazeera before he was interrogated where he admitted responsibility, just in case you claim the KSM confession was forced.

Anyway, who is al-Qaeda ? Ask the marines that fought them in the fall of '01... and now the expansions into Iraq....the continued global attacks... the continued messages from their leaders.... the continued recruitment efforts....the training camps they had... defecting members.... are you seriously denying al-Qaeda's existance ?

I answered all those answers previously about Al-Qaeda in general terms. As for the "proof" Al-Qaeda did it, most of that "evidence" you gave out was provided by the U.S. government and the CIA. Of course, as you are already laughing about it, I will not believe it. Where is this KSM "confession" to Al-Jazeera you speak of? As for him confessing to U.S. officials, we all know it was done under the torture technique of waterboarding.

So, tell me, on FBI's most wanted list under Bin Laden, why is he not accused or wanted for the 9/11 attacks?





Again, no proof, and just going off old things that happened. Obviously Iraq is using other companies to drill for oil since they lack the technology... thatmeans nothing. The government is not profiting off the oil at all.

I think you are giving the CIA WAY too much credit.

Oh and here is KSM confessing to al-Jazeera: http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/3/15/13351/2245

Obviously, it is faked by the CIA too... duh.

 

[lightweight champion]

Originally Posted by devildog1776

If any one knows about the war in Iraq it would be me... I was there in 04 when it was just popping off and not one day did we have ANY intelligence on WMD or Al Queda operatives... It was always random "terrorist" or what I like to call them freedom fighters ..... We never got close to finding anything that made Iraq a threat to the world... yhat place was so behind in the times it would've been impoosible to have WMD... they barely had decent electricity in their homes....come on.

I was in NY on 9/11 actually on CHAMBERS St.... which is 5 blocks from WTC..... there were explosions at that area . My best friend worked on the 3rd floor at the time... and he told me as soon as he got home that day that he heard BOMBS GOING OFF...

there was alot of things to be gained from 9/11... examples you can look up if you like
- heroin import has risen over 500% since the invasion of afghan
- US bases are being planned for construction in Baghdad
- US embassy in Iraq
- Oil profiteers have made the most money in history 123 BILLION LAST YR ALONE LOLOLOLOLOL
- Contractors from both SECURITY AND CONSTRUCTION have made BILLIONS since March 2003( date of invasion) ie HALIBURTON, KGB , BLACKWATER
- Cheneys HALIBURTON ties are non--debatable


the proof is in the pudding ....

The unfortunate thing for both you and Hazeleye is that MidEastBeast wants physical proof for all of what you guys are saying. Like, literallythe original physical transcripts and documents to prove what you guys are saying is true. Otherwise, he just turns it down with a closed mind as conspiracy

 

[mideastbeast]

I don't want physical proof. Read my first post in this thread. There is not even a logical way for it to have happened discussing it purely without anyscientific or physical aspects of it.

 

[tmukg21]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

I don't want physical proof. Read my first post in this thread. There is not even a logical way for it to have happened discussing it purely without any scientific or physical aspects of it.

so do you believe your govt (uncle sam) had no knowledge of stuff or do you want to believe your govt is telling the citizens the 100% truth?

You kinda have to go off old stuff to make predictions and rationalize whats going on today. Your govt is corrupt plain and simple

 

[mideastbeast]

It's not about what I want to believe.

Go read my first post, there is no possible way for the govt. to be involved; unless you want to believe that al-Qaeda is completely run by the U.S -or- thatit doesn't exist at all

They had general knowledge that an attack on the U.S was coming from al-Qaeda but ..... duh. We don't need special CIA memos to know that al-Qaeda wants toattack the U.S. There is no proof or no reasonable purpose for them to "let it happen" either.

al-Qaeda and bin laden are alien clones and the attack was carried out by a secret group on mars that wants to takeover the world. Prove me wrong.

 

[spot rusherz]

I really enjoy these posts...

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

I don't even know how to respond.

First of all, only link you gave was an accusation by Arafat, which really holds no water. You keep poking fun at the Mossad/Double agent thing but you don't want to answer... if not them than who did the marines fight in al-Anbar and Torra Borra ? Who were those men fighting to protect bin laden and calling themselves al-Qaeda ? Proof of london/spain attack connections ? You just make the ridiculous claim that the agencies might be involved in it with ZERO proof..... that's why I hate arguing with conspiracy theorists. Why can't I just say aliens carried out both attacks, of course I have no proof, but I am just as right as you are.

So tell me again, who is making the as-Sahab videos ? You know, the ones with giant al-Qaeda banners in the back as some guy is getting beheaded and the people read a speech at the start praising al-Qaeda and Osama.... and letters intercepted between the two.....

You did not provide me any proof Al-Qaeda is behind 9/11. So, the evidence I believe is proof to me, as all you believe yourself is proof to you.Whatever I provide you with, you will claim it is not any proof.

The point of showing you that article is telling you techniques of how intelligece agencies set up fake Al-Qaeda cells. Also, it was not just an accusation byArafat, and it has been proven by Palestinian government services of how it was done by Mossad. Here is an excerpt from an article where it may be a bit moreclear:

Palestinian officials promised to provide detailed evidence, and did so on December 8, in a press conference addressed by Colonel Shbak, and by Palestinian Minister for Planning and International Cooperation Nabil Shaath. Shbak told the international representatives that, "Over the past nine months, we've been investigating eight cases in which Israeli intelligence posing as al Qaeda operatives recruited Palestinians in the Gaza Strip." Colonel Shbak said that three men were under arrest, and 11 had been released.
He explained that those released had voluntarily provided information going back to May 2002, about the contacts that had been made asking them to operate as an "al Qaeda" group. The alleged al Qaeda recruiters were traced to Israeli intelligence, said Colonel Shbak. He detailed incidents, some of which were described in official documents, of cell phone calls and e-mails, where Palestinians were asked to "join al Qaeda." Shbak said, "We investigated the origin of those calls, which used [wireless phone] roaming, and messages, and found out they all came from Israel," reported the publication IslamOnline. He said that the potential "recruits," had been given money and weapons, "although most of these weapons did not even work." He also noted that the money for these targeted Palestinians "was transferred from bank accounts in Jerusalem or Israel."

Minister Shaath announced at the press conference that the P.A. had "handed ambassadors and consuls of the Arab and foreign countries, documents revealing the involvement of the Israeli intelligence in recruiting citizens from Gaza Strip in a fake organization carrying the name of Qaeda." He said the ploy was intended "to create a new excuse to escalate the aggression on Gaza Strip."


http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=5156http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=5156

Again, the main point is just to show you some of the techniques of how these fake Al-Qaeda cells are propped up by intelligence agencies. What is so hard tounderstand about it? So, for example, those as-Sahab videos and those men, it is whether it is done by intelligence agencies, or it could be that it is actualArab militant terrorists. However, it does not mean they were remnants from the original Al-Qaeda, but they became it. Anyways, is there any proof tothe authenticity of those videos?Anyone can make videos like that, especially intelligence agencies. A lot of the videos that came out from there have beenreported to be fake by experts.

Who said who the Marines were fighting in al-Anbar and Torra Borra were the actual and organized "Al-Qaeda" terrorist cell? It was local men who tookup the cause to ally with the Taliban to fight off who they believed were foreign invaders. A lot of them were also remnants of the Taliban.

Did you know that after September 11th, the Taliban even offered the U.S. to try Bin Laden underIslamic law if the U.S. presented them concrete evidence of Bin Laden's involvement to 9/11 and the U.S. rejected? Furthermore, CBS's Dan Ratheralso reported that Bin Laden was in a hospital in Pakistan on September 11th and the ISI provided that information to the U.S. government. The U.S. knew wherehe was.

Anyways, this is actually a big interest of mine, so I can sit and argue here all day.

 

[mideastbeast]

I just gave you proof, and the KSM interview, which you just ignored.

Also, al-Qaeda is the military wing of the Taliban and what we were fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. The men say they are al-Qaeda themselves..... Go watchany video released by as-Sahab, you can probably read Arabic, in which case it's not hard to see the giant al-Qaeda logos, flags and how they mentionmembership.

Read interviews of Iraqi's who lived under siege by al-Qaeda in cities such as Ramadi, where they beheaded barbers who cut beards. Those, are not regulariraqi "freedom fighters".....

"federallobserver"

.. I looked at the website webpage and closed it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda_in_Iraq obviously, it's all faked by Mossad and theCIA.... duh. The interviews, videos, killings, all forged.

It's a big interest of mine too but I can't argue all day, I have a lot of things to do, that's why I've been making shorter posts. I feeldebating things like this is ridiculous anyway, I didn't know people denied the existence of al-Qaeda... in 2009...

I'll check back every now and then, but there is no way you can prove to me that al-Qaeda doesn't exist... let alone that the govt. carried out 9/11.