Star Wars Universe Thread: May The 4th Be With You

[Master Zik]

he's recently talked about how the Force wasn't supposed to be some magical, mystical thing.

He's such a ******* weirdo

He didn't do a good job of that in the OT then

I feel like everybody came away thinking the force was similar to bull **** spirituality talk. I didn't think it was exactly magic cuz of what most ppl think of when they think magic but it was definitely some comic book super power stuff going on.

Everybody says SW is Sci-fantasy and if he wanted sci-fi he should've watched some Star Trek.

 

[jays25]

The prophecy/balance bull **** is bogus anyways. That was merely an attempt to add some sort of meaning or weight to a tremendously thin script. Nothing more.

Well these movies never had any real depth to them. It's usually been fans doing a good job of drawing out complicated reasoning to the force, Jedi, and Sith.

I figured the whole prophecy thing tied in to the force being "magical" and what not.

If the prophecy is just all bull **** then I feel there's more reason to ditch the Skywalkers altogether and follow an entirely new bunch of characters.

True story. Majority of the "depth" that this franchise had came from outside of the films in stuff like the Expanded Universe.

And naah, the Chosen One, Force being out of balance, and prophecy all came about in Episode 1 to add further credence to the Skywalkers being special.

will anyone care about avatar 2? 

Well i've been waiting for that film for years so I certainly will.

 

[CP1708]

There was no "chosen one" stuff in the OT. Nor balance, or prophecy or any of that.

 

[Master Zik]

Wow my mistake. Then there's even less depth to this than I thought. It just a regular good vs. evil story with a redemption arc in it.

Don't see what the fuss is about that it was added though.

It don't get more "magical" than the force impregnating Anakin's mom and him being born to fulfill some prophecy cuz the Jedi somehow lost their power to see in the future with the force.

 

[CP1708]

whatever.

You just tryna find an angle to help your boy. Yet again, he let you down.

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

Star Wars was never that deep or thought-provoking of a story anyway. It's as generically good vs evil as it gets

EDIT: did you just refer to me as Zik's boy? Have you not read any other fiction thread on NT?

 

[jays25]

Wow my mistake. Then there's even less depth to this than I thought. It just a regular good vs. evil story with a redemption arc in it.

Don't see what the fuss is about that it was added though.

It don't get more "magical" than the force impregnating Anakin's mom and him being born to fulfill some prophecy cuz the Jedi somehow lost their power to see in the future with the force.

Personally I always thought it was a nice touch and indeed did feel that it added to the mysticism of the franchise. (Though at the same time, by that point visions and prophecies had already appeared to a further extent within the EU so I was somewhat used to it)

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

There's plenty of "foreseeing the future" type stuff in Star Wars.

I don't like the prophecy nonsense but it clearly ties into Lucas' attempt to sell Anakin as the central figure of the franchise. Didn't Lucas say way before Episose 1 that he envisioned Star Wars as the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker?

And the midichlorian stuff was never a way to science up the force to me. It seemed more like an easy way to once again sell Anakin's potential. Qui Gonn said IIRC that the midichlorians are microorganisms that commune with the force, not that they ARE the force. It's also an easy explanation for Anakin's conception/creation by Plagueis--through the midichlorians, Force has a distinct correlation with biology and a person's potential.

The idea of a "Chosen One" will always be bad storytelling to me, and I don't know what yall want me to say. I been said multiple times (as have other dudes) I don't particularly care for I and II

 

[CP1708]

Star Wars was never that deep or thought-provoking of a story anyway. It's as generically good vs evil as it gets

EDIT: did you just refer to me as Zik's boy? Have you not read any other fiction thread on NT?

Um, I was referring to Lucas. Sorry.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Me personally?

I'm glad it's being delayed.

It'll help me let go of this Finn hate that's in my heart.

 

[sea manup]

The idea of a "Chosen One" will always be bad storytelling to me, and I don't know what yall want me to say. I been said multiple times (as have other dudes) I don't particularly care for I and II

agree with this 100%

thought it was terribly lazy in harry potter as well

whenever "chosen one" comes up you just know there's going to be some random bs that results in the hero winning (or turning evil) 

 

[Nike Jordan]

Disney is pulling a Harry Potter with Episode VIII by delaying the release of the film.

 

[green rhino123]

Disney is pulling a Harry Potter with Episode VIII by delaying the release of the film.

hope it aint wack like them potter joints tho

 

[KingParappa]

The idea of a "Chosen One" will always be bad storytelling to me, and I don't know what yall want me to say. I been said multiple times (as have other dudes) I don't particularly care for I and II

agree with this 100%

thought it was terribly lazy in harry potter as well

whenever "chosen one" comes up you just know there's going to be some random bs that results in the hero winning (or turning evil) 

In the movies it does. The books since they have more time and you actually get to see someone make the prophecy and Voldemort taking steps to negate it but in doing so bring his own down fall was pretty cool.

 

[sea manup]

 

 

The idea of a "Chosen One" will always be bad storytelling to me, and I don't know what yall want me to say. I been said multiple times (as have other dudes) I don't particularly care for I and II

agree with this 100%

thought it was terribly lazy in harry potter as well

whenever "chosen one" comes up you just know there's going to be some random bs that results in the hero winning (or turning evil) 

In the movies it does. The books since they have more time and you actually get to see someone make the prophecy and Voldemort taking steps to negate it but in doing so bring his own down fall was pretty cool.

i really enjoyed the books but the movies kind of ruined the overall story for me and made me feel bad for voldemort

voldemort was evil but he worked hard, worked smart and did everything in his power to succeed 

harry was an average kid who doesnt really do anything, yet every time he's stuck or is about to die some random ex machina bs plot point pops up to save him and advance the plot

voldemort is the true underdog here, everytime he does something logical in his quest to kill harry he gets stopped by a random new magic rule that the writer makes up to protect harry

 

[KingParappa]

And its funny because if Voldemort didn't act on the prophecy that night, he would have won.

Only that seems quickly made up is the Wand thing in the last book but its really a cool thing that I overlook it.

 

[sea manup]

but like if voldemort just took a regular muggle gun and shot harry in the face, he would not have died?

i mean harry literally died in the last book, went to the afterlife and came back because he's the main character so he cant die in a kids book 

the plot needs something to happen so they randomly pull the sword out of the sorting hat???

the fire spell crabbe and goyle use just so happens to be the only one that can destroy a horcrux?

they need to find something important so it magically appears in the woods close to where they are randomly camping?

harry potter is literally the luckiest character in the history of fiction, he can be a total screwup but some random magic rule will make him come out on top 

im telling you, voldemort is the real victim here 

 

[Master Zik]

whatever.

You just tryna find an angle to help your boy. Yet again, he let you down.

Who you talking about?

I don't got no boys when it comes to these topics for the most part.

Star Wars was never that deep or thought-provoking of a story anyway. It's as generically good vs evil as it gets

EDIT: did you just refer to me as Zik's boy? Have you not read any other fiction thread on NT?

Um, I was referring to Lucas. Sorry.

Oh

Well I'd just say you aint paying attention. I'm not defending him. I'm straight up saying either way it doesn't change the quality of the movies.

I mean story wise if you want given credence to the prophecy it ties in fine with what happens in the OT. To me all that sort of talk is magical crap anyway. If you take it away and want to pretend the PT don't count then the OT is what it is on it's face. The force doesn't suddenly become more magical or w/e if you take away the prophecy and the chosen one stuff. The way it was presented there was always some vague **** that couldn't be fully explained cuz the experts were on some Confucius **** and the rest were dead.

 

[KingParappa]

but like if voldemort just took a regular muggle gun and shot harry in the face, he would not have died?

i mean harry literally died in the last book, went to the afterlife and came back because he's the main character so he cant die in a kids book 

the plot needs something to happen so they randomly pull the sword out of the sorting hat???

the fire spell crabbe and goyle use just so happens to be the only one that can destroy a horcrux?

they need to find something important so it magically appears in the woods close to where they are randomly camping?


harry potter is literally the luckiest character in the history of fiction, he can be a total screwup but some random magic rule will make him come out on top 

im telling you, voldemort is the real victim here 

You do know that Snape planted that horcrux in the woods right?

I want to say the hat is magical...you know seeing as it talks and thinks but I think that would be a copout.

The fire spell

And they also comment on Harry's luck. Also Harry has the benefit of Dumbledore pulling strings behind the scenes 9 times out of 10.

 

[CP1708]

I'm mostly givin you a hard time about your boy, you know that, but remember, you speakin in 2016, don't front like 1977 wasn't blown the hell away by the Force.

People was out their mind from that nonsense, my parents tell me **** all the damn time about that era.


By the time I grew up, and I caught on, as kids, we def were tryna know what the force was, and Jedi, and Vader, and all that. Force chokes, pickin ships up out the swamp, throwin things just by standin there, these aren't the droids you're lookin for, lightsabers, all that.

TODAY, we see that stuff and yawn. When they came out, naw. That stuff consumed people.

The EU, monthly magazines, forum's, all that stuff spend decades searching for answers, creating their own ideas and beliefs, etc. I wouldn't go so far as to say "thin story" when it captured the imagination of hundreds of millions of people. Which for that, I give George credit. His OT got everybody. Truly awesome on his part.

But come 99, he damn near wrecked the whole thing. He tried to destroy it or some ****, cuz the fatherless boy, Midiclorians, Rule of Two, all that stuff was GARBAGE. He tried to explain something rather than just try to expand on it. Show more powers, show different uses, add more layers, don't try to one fell swoop it all.

 

[sea manup]

 

but like if voldemort just took a regular muggle gun and shot harry in the face, he would not have died?

i mean harry literally died in the last book, went to the afterlife and came back because he's the main character so he cant die in a kids book 

the plot needs something to happen so they randomly pull the sword out of the sorting hat???

the fire spell crabbe and goyle use just so happens to be the only one that can destroy a horcrux?

they need to find something important so it magically appears in the woods close to where they are randomly camping?


harry potter is literally the luckiest character in the history of fiction, he can be a total screwup but some random magic rule will make him come out on top 

im telling you, voldemort is the real victim here 

You do know that Snape planted that horcrux in the woods right?

I want to say the hat is magical...you know seeing as it talks and thinks but I think that would be a copout.

The fire spell

And they also comment on Harry's luck. Also Harry has the benefit of Dumbledore pulling strings behind the scenes 9 times out of 10.

its the same problem I have with people defending the prequels

yes, i understand that all these things are in the fictional universe and there is an attempt to explain things

but from a story telling stand point its just lazy to have someone do something offscreen that ends up saving the main character every time

major props to the books for making a compelling story out of a main character who literally has everything handed to him and has outside forces fighting his battles for him

but it was so apparent in the movies that it just ruined it for me

 

[KingParappa]

its the same problem I have with people defending the prequels

yes, i understand that all these things are in the fictional universe and there is an attempt to explain things

but from a story telling stand point its just lazy to have someone do something offscreen that ends up saving the main character every time

major props to the books for making a compelling story out of a main character who literally has everything handed to him and has outside forces fighting his battles for him

but it was so apparent in the movies that it just ruined it for me

The difference from this and the prequels is that we see majority of this from Harry's view point (save for a few moments, ie The Unbreakable Vow). If Harry doesn't have that info, neither do we.

 

[sea manup]

i was just comparing the argument of "X is explained" which makes it okay to use in the story to people who do that for the prequels

by no means am I comparing the movies, the harry potter movies are head shoulders, knees and toes above the prequels. 

my issue with the harry potter story is that what we/harry dont know is almost always good news. 

so the conflict will be in plain sight, and what causes the resolution of the conflict is usually the reveal of something we did not know about rather than harry solving the problem on his own.

and after 8 movies of this I got the feeling that there's no tension anymore since any time harry is in danger something is going to pop out and save him. 

even though you can have an explanation to why these things happen to save harry, I still dont think it's good for the story to have the protagonist have so much help

 

[danger style]

Disney is pulling a Harry Potter with Episode VIII by delaying the release of the film.

?

They would be pulling a Harry Potter if they split the movie into two, not by delaying it

 

[Master Zik]

I'm mostly givin you a hard time about your boy, you know that, but remember, you speakin in 2016, don't front like 1977 wasn't blown the hell away by the Force.

People was out their mind from that nonsense, my parents tell me **** all the damn time about that era.


By the time I grew up, and I caught on, as kids, we def were tryna know what the force was, and Jedi, and Vader, and all that. Force chokes, pickin ships up out the swamp, throwin things just by standin there, these aren't the droids you're lookin for, lightsabers, all that.

TODAY, we see that stuff and yawn. When they came out, naw. That stuff consumed people.

The EU, monthly magazines, forum's, all that stuff spend decades searching for answers, creating their own ideas and beliefs, etc. I wouldn't go so far as to say "thin story" when it captured the imagination of hundreds of millions of people. Which for that, I give George credit. His OT got everybody. Truly awesome on his part.

But come 99, he damn near wrecked the whole thing. He tried to destroy it or some ****, cuz the fatherless boy, Midiclorians, Rule of Two, all that stuff was GARBAGE. He tried to explain something rather than just try to expand on it. Show more powers, show different uses, add more layers, don't try to one fell swoop it all.

Yeah I can feel you here. This is just where we look at it differently cuz I can't have that experience of growing up with it then like that.

Still though, between the OT and PT keeping in mind of how wild the 70s were it was like George was just riffing heavy off of Hinduism and Buddhism among other things.= except this time you get a cool super power.

It may have just been the point of it all for the PT cuz while he didn't ruin every character they all came off a bit douchey. Like basically showing back then these ppl were garbage ppl that all failed and led to the Empire happening

I aint know you or the rest of yall hated the rule of 2 as well