(Spoilers) ASOIAF Books Discussion (All Books Read Edition) (Spoilers)

[District of Columbia]

and wat message was Rhaegar sending by giving Lyanna the Rose even tho he knew full well the reaction that would send to everybody even Robert.

And it's no way that's not a big deal ..he's the Heir to the throne and everybody who's anybody is there to see it

 

[damysteryman]

Don't see Lyanna protecting a baby that was conceived by rape. Would think she'd only do that for a man she loved

 

[tdogg2k]

and what if the man she loved had her believing in the prophecy also???
or
if she had been under the watchful eye of guards since conception. when would she had been able to drink moon tea. or cut it out her self..

we also dont know if rhaegar had a relationship or even knew lyanna before the tourney.. thats possible as well. Its more than likely they had interactions before the tourney. Since we know about the party that takes place at tourneys.

 

[damysteryman]

I'll give Tdogg credit for the imagination on his theory. It's all speculation at this point. I just don't see a reason for her to protect Aerys' baby.

Which is why GRRM needs to stop playing around with these books. TWOW probably won't answer all these questions

 

[tdogg2k]

I just find it funny how people are so quick to dismiss as if R+L isnt 95% speculation as well.
There are NO direct sources/quotes that say "Rhaegar loved lyanna" all of that is speculation because of him giving her the favor at the tourney.
There are no direct sources/qoutes saying they had any additional interactions.
Hell theres only speculation that he was even the one who took her to the TOJ. NO DIRECT QUOTES/SOURCES of him being the one to do that other than what robert said in book 1.
All we know is that there were 3 KG therem. And we know robert thought rhaegar did it ( was it even directly quoted of it being "rhaegar" or targareyons sent her there.)

But you r+l only dudes think your "speculation" is the only concrete one.
Thats what bothers me.

 

[Barbados Slim]

This is where the 2 Kingsguard theories can work, either:
1. Aerys sent his 3 there along with the kingsguard to protect the child due to Rgar possibly usurping and him wanting to kill Rgar eventually and needing more heirs (dany can't rule and Viserys who knows. )
 

Hold up you can't just say that. 

Viserys is next in line to Rhaegawd, so he could have killed him and still have an heir. How could Aerys known that Lyanna was having a boy? Sending his KG to protect a bastard that he isn't sure will be a boy or girl seems kinda dumb.

 2. Rhaegar rescued her... and since he was ururping he had KG who wanted to usurp with him (since we know some KG were corrupt or actually had opinions or maybe just saw that craziness that was happening in Aerys and didnt want to support it anymore. (only Barristan was a real Loyal dude out of the KG if this is true)

Wait...but earlier you asked why would the KG be there, their job is to protect the king. Now you're saying it's possible that they were there cause they were on Rhaegar's side. Why couldn't that be an option for the R + L theory? 

Rhaegar usurping against Aery's doesn't make sense to me. He is the heir by right and know where in the books does it say Aery's disowned him or was not going to name him heir. Why would he need to usurp. Also "trying to convince Robert to join him"? How does that make sense. Why would he do that on the battle field in the middle of a battle? 

 

[tdogg2k]

I already mentioned only the king has the power to disperse the KG and aerys had jamie by his sideplus trapped himself in the Red keep. Thats why I said it could be 1 of those 2 options.

Aerys needed to go NOW. No one wanted to see him burning lords for essentially the hell of it. He completely had the duskendale house eradicated to have rykker move in.
So it does still make sense for him to be usurped by his own more well liked son. And it would make sense for others to want to follow (hence option 2 to my theory of KG being at TOJ.)
People were not trying to endure another mad targeryeon he needed to get up out there

 

[Barbados Slim]

For scenario 1 you're basically saying that the Mad King sent his KG to protect a bastard that may or may not be a boy instead of sending them to protect his true born son and heir. 

I don't fully understand scenario 2. Are you saying Rhaegar may have rescued Lyanna hoping that it would help convince Robert to join his cause? 

 

[District of Columbia]

He sent 3 KG to protect his potential bastard ...but sent his no one but his Master at Arms to protect his his heir

 

[Master Zik]

I don't know about all this she wouldn't protect a rape baby talk. Females do that all the time and with good reason to them.

How many females have we seen in this or any fiction that have a baby by rape and then just let the baby be killed?

 

[Barbados Slim]

^^ DCMADE and I were talking about the Mad King protecting his bastard not Lyanna unless you were referring to a different post. According to Tdogg's theory the Mad King gave his unborn bastard more protection than his true born son.

 

[shogun]

Not to play devil's advocate but wasn't aerys paranoid about rhaegar trying take the crown from him? Wonder how much he cared about rhaegar in those last few months / weeks. rhaegar's fam didn't seem like they got much protection.

 

[richiecotite]

I don't think anyone would care about that much about a bastard child, especially not a Targaryon. The entire House Blackfyre was created from Targaryon bastards. If anything, he would have killed the baby. Even Robert had at least 1 bastard he acknowledged, due to the mother being high born. But he didn't do anything at all to help or nurtur that child.

No one in Westeros cares about bastards, or would care about a bastard than a trueborn son.

 

[District of Columbia]

Not to play devil's advocate but wasn't aerys paranoid about rhaegar trying take the crown from him? Wonder how much he cared about rhaegar in those last few months / weeks. rhaegar's fam didn't seem like they got much protection.

It's well known that he was paranoid and thought that Rhaegar was trying to unsurp him. Still doesn't explain why a paranoid King would send 3 of his KG to Dorne in the middle of a war to protect a bastard

and was Rhaegar on vacation or something when Lyanna disappeared ? Where was he if not with Lyanna

 

[Barbados Slim]

Not to play devil's advocate but wasn't aerys paranoid about rhaegar trying take the crown from him? Wonder how much he cared about rhaegar in those last few months / weeks. rhaegar's fam didn't seem like they got much protection.

All the more reason to give Visery's max protection right? Because if Rha and his family dies then the crown falls to Viserys

 

[nako xl]

I'll give Tdogg credit for the imagination on his theory. It's all speculation at this point. I just don't see a reason for her to protect Aerys' baby.

Which is why GRRM needs to stop playing around with these books. TWOW probably won't answer all these questions

it's not Tdogg's theory. A lot of people believe it.

The thing is in most circles, the chief proof of it is the idea that Aerys was responsible for a lot of troubling pregnancies and births. And then to believe that you have to believe the theory that Tyrion is secretly Aerys's kid too.

And ignore any speculation on all the other kids in the story whose mothers died during child birth. Or the fact that before modern medicine -- and even since -- childbirth is a traumatic experience and 3 notable deaths isn't anything out of the ordinary, particularly for the universe.

 

[District of Columbia]

Reading up more on Ashara Dayne ...she seems like she was bad

Might legit would've taken her over anybody

 

[danger style]

Ned could have had that

 

[Xennial]

In terms of beauty Shiera Seastar is #1 all time

 

[KingParappa]

In terms of beauty Shiera Seastar is #1 all time

Interesting you bring that up, I was just reading a theory about her

 

[pitman13]

More theories ?

 

[tdogg2k]

it's not Tdogg's theory. A lot of people believe it.

The thing is in most circles, the chief proof of it is the idea that Aerys was responsible for a lot of troubling pregnancies and births. And then to believe that you have to believe the theory that Tyrion is secretly Aerys's kid too.

And ignore any speculation on all the other kids in the story whose mothers died during child birth. Or the fact that before modern medicine -- and even since -- childbirth is a traumatic experience and 3 notable deaths isn't anything out of the ordinary, particularly for the universe.

It's a theory i believe in. I wasn't the first to come up with it. you're right.
I have never been a fan of people claiming the 100% it's r+L = j, mainly because i've always seen the trouble Aerys has caused since book 1.

but as much as I say it's A+L

and the people who are 100% R+L still haven't came with concrete proof it was such.


I'm 51% to 49% to be honest on whose kid it is. (take note, and ive also said this before. i dont think it's not-not Rhaegars., i just feel Aerys is def in the running)

yes new mothers die, that's fact.

but these are 3 mothers who have died. when Aerys could have been apart of their lives with seemingly unbothered pregnancies before (not lyanna obviously)

Lyanna having the baby in the TOJ still isn't exactly Cannon (yet) we can assume it's going to be , or we can assume the show runners did that to speed the story and make a sort of happy tone to the story.

you know like Dany basically having no opposition when she gets to westeros. (when we know in the book that's not going to be the case at all)

 

[KingParappa]

More theories ?

What else do we in the book thread have? I guess we can vacate til the book drops.

 

[District of Columbia]

Any other fantasy books that come close to ASOIAF to recommend ? Preferably ones that's are finished

 

[tdogg2k]

"The wheel of time" is great. 14 books in the series.

"Assassins apprentice" this one is great 3 books in the series

GrRMs other books are fantastic.