(Spoilers) ASOIAF Books Discussion (All Books Read Edition) (Spoilers)

[tdogg2k]

Almost home. My theory is a little long but regarding the 3 kg it could have happened 1 of 2 ways which is why they were there ( for my theory).

Let me reiterate now. I'm not against r+l im not saying thats the way it couldve happened.

I jus t think a+l is just as strong of a possibility.
And i "ride" for it because people dismiss it as if its out the realm of possibility.

Its just like how some people thought Loras was going to be cersis valanqor but now people are saying jamie. And there have been a lot of people saying jamie the whole time but no one ever wanted to believe it

 

[hybridsoldier23]

In fairness to Tdogg the question posed to D&D from Martin was "Who is Jon Snow's mother?" Not "Who is Jon Snow's mother and father?".

On the parentage of Jon Snow:

Benioff and Weiss later said that during that meeting you asked them who they think Jon Snow's mother was, which is one of the earliest — and seemingly one of the central — mysteries in A Song of Ice and Fire.
I did ask that at one point, just to see how closely they'd read the text.

Did they get it right?
They answered correctly.

Some readers, I think, would also ask who Jon Snow's father truly is, even though Jon was always claimed to be Ned Stark's bastard son.
[Martin smiles] On this I shall not speak. I shall maintain my enigmatic silence, until I get to it in the books.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news...olling-stone-interview-20140428#ixzz4Co8ckYbL

 

[Master Zik]

When they first got there Arthur Dayne specifically says that the Prince ( Rhaegar ) wanted him there and that's why they weren't at the Fork

Dude is jus going against the grain ..it's no other reason to brush off the tons of foreshadowing

Show or the books though?

Show, Rhaegar is barely brought up.

 

[tdogg2k]

In fairness to Tdogg the question posed to D&D from Martin was "Who is Jon Snow's mother?" Not "Who is Jon Snow's mother and father?".

Show or the books though?
Show, Rhaegar is barely brought up.

I believe in the show. Rhaegar has been brought up maybe by 4 people so about 4 maybe 5 scenes total. Robert once about how he hated targareyons ( i cant remember specifically if he named rhaegar)
Dany and Jorah.
once by Barristan.
once by Little Finger.

and they were very very small insignificant mentions. Show only watchers with no outside influence from the internet book readers. would have no idea about R+L. from a strict show standpoint. Maybe after what little finger said last season but that would have been the only way. they still wouldn't have put that together until last night basically.

 

[pitman13]

I'm still waiting for someone to reference the book w/ this A+L=J theory.

Until then, it's a mute point.

 

[tdogg2k]

Ive done that before when you asked for that last time. we're not going through all that again. when i type up this new one im not referencing book pages and chapters

(especially since no one here has referenced exact R+L FACT in here. )
don't give me that

 

[Xennial]

In the show it seem like Dany can take Westeros with ease but in the book she's gotta deal with Aegon/Young Griff/Varys and the Golden Company

 

[hoosier bad boy 11]

Do to guys think that the Mountain will slowly kill Septa Unella similar to how he did Vargo Hoat in the books. I think that would be so dope for TV.

 

[nako xl]

Truth be told they prob planned to have him sexually assault her since that's D&D's shock/horror go to and something the Lannisters and Gregor Clegane in collusion have utilized before. But viewers aren't playing that **** anymore.

 

[shogun]

Getting raped by a zombie. That would be a new one but wouldn't be surprised.

 

[biggie62]

I think he'll just rape her and what not and maybe some sort of cruel punishments. Until she eventually dies.

 

[hybridsoldier23]

looks like tdogg2k was on that wack wannabe Talking Dead show for Thrones last night

 

[Master Zik]

In fairness to Tdogg the question posed to D&D from Martin was "Who is Jon Snow's mother?" Not "Who is Jon Snow's mother and father?".

Show or the books though?
Show, Rhaegar is barely brought up.

I believe in the show. Rhaegar has been brought up maybe by 4 people so about 4 maybe 5 scenes total. Robert once about how he hated targareyons ( i cant remember specifically if he named rhaegar)
Dany and Jorah.
once by Barristan.
once by Little Finger.

and they were very very small insignificant mentions. Show only watchers with no outside influence from the internet book readers. would have no idea about R+L. from a strict show standpoint. Maybe after what little finger said last season but that would have been the only way. they still wouldn't have put that together until last night basically.

That's what I'm saying about the theory when it comes to the show. It ain't 100% confirmed given Rhaegar barely had much of a presence on the show. Mad king is more infamous and known.

Anybody just watching ain't gonna connect those dots and would have no reason to. Show ain't been hinting at that particular father.

 

[tdogg2k]

Rhaella died after Dany
Joanna. Died after tyrion
Lyanna died after Jon...
Hmmmmmm interesting trend.

 

[shogun]

I think the direwolf mom died too.

 

[tdogg2k]

I think the direwolf mom was killed by a stag .

Fixed

 

[qstorm3]

Im surprised we didnt get howland reed on the show. I thoguth i read we'd see him in the next book.

 

[District of Columbia]

Howland Reed was at the TOJ wit Ned

 

[Master Zik]

He's talking about old Howland Reed.

 

[tdogg2k]

from the top:
Tourney at Harrenhall. Rhaegar (will say Rgar for short) gives lyanna the favor of love and beauty.
This is sort of a slap in the face to his wife Elia but at the same time its really not that big of a deal to give a good looking woman the favor. but it was def a big deal to Robert who was betrothed to her. so ofcourse people hit the OMG gasp when it happened.
So the Question is why did he do that....all we know about rhaegar prior to the tourney is he was once a nerd reading books playing songs. read something in a prophecy and then wanted to be come a knight (important). everyone knew he wasnt the greatest fighter but he was prince. (that tidbit is irrelevant).
(Side note about Aerys)
Aerys is mad, he trust no one. Barristan had to come rescue him from duskendale which was an event that Barristan had thought about what if he didnt even rescue him... then Rhaegar an admitted better man than Aerys (from barristans words). But after that even Aerys had never been the same.
Why did we get that tidbit from Barristan?? Mainly to show how crazy Aerys was but more importantly to show he was willing to do anything to not let no one F with him again.
My theory is this. Rhaegar had planned to Usurp the throne from his own father.
the rose to lyanna was more of a message than favor.
What i think though is that Aerys caught wind of this. Though we have no proof of Lyanna anywhere near Aerys (same could be said for not being anywhere near Rhaegar after the tourney) I think she was somehow there during the same time Brandon and OG Lord Stark was there. I think he killed them. and raped Lyanna in that same time frame. (and knew she was pregnant) mainly because there had to had been some time in between. all those events. assuming he raped her earlier. which was another reason for Lord Stark going all the way to KL.

This is where the 2 Kingsguard theories can work, either:
1. Aerys sent his 3 there along with the kingsguard to protect the child due to Rgar possibly usurping and him wanting to kill Rgar eventually and needing more heirs (dany can't rule and Viserys who knows. )

2. Rhaegar rescued her... and since he was ururping he had KG who wanted to usurp with him (since we know some KG were corrupt or actually had opinions or maybe just saw that craziness that was happening in Aerys and didnt want to support it anymore. (only Barristan was a real Loyal dude out of the KG if this is true)

Now I think that Rhaegar only met robert on the battlefield to try and reason with him and get him on his side.. but we all know Rob aint about no words he only about that action.

Both of those scenarios I still see Aerys as the father.


now we know Rhaegar was honorable. Valiant... so why would he had a child out of wetlock with Lyanna? whether he loved her not. he was still married to Ellia. Ellia was a great person just sick.... If he did. he's a scumbag and not as great as people think he was.

but we know Aerys is a crazy dude who wanted to dip his hand in everything and trust no one. it's very possible he got to lyanna some how.
either way I think it was a rescue mission in Rhaegars eyes. maybe he was trying to get Robert to meet with him and thats why he even went to that battle... Why wasn't he had the tower with his girl who was about to have a baby................WHY SWAY

 

[hybridsoldier23]

I can follow what you're saying but your timeline is messed up.

It's clear form the timeline Lyanna got preggers AFTER the tourney because the tourney was at the end of 281. Lyanna is abducted in early-mid 282 and the ToJ/Jon's birth takes place in mid-late 283.

So Jon had to be conceived after Rhaegar took her. You're telling me she made it to KL and Rhaegar handed her over to the mad King so she could be raped?

 

[tdogg2k]

Sorry inwas distracted while typing. And not that he took her there to get raoed but its possible she visited since harrenhall isnt far from KL

 

[pitman13]

After reading your soliloquy, tdogg2k , I wonder.

If everyone in this thread strongly believed A+L=J, would you be creating a scenario to make R+L=J ?

Answer this truthfully

 

[tdogg2k]

No. Because itruly believe in A+L and we would all buddy up like yall did with jon snow coming back

 

[District of Columbia]

Am I reading this right ? You think that Rhaegar led a force of 40,000 to reason with Robert ?