Soooo, has LeBron surpassed Kobe as the most hated? Vol. Dan Gilbert

[big j 33]

Actually, look at the past few pages, not many Knicks fans are arguing at all. Knicks are disappointed that we didn't get him, but also at the superteam in Miami, because we'll eventually have to play against them in the East.

 

[got shoes]

Originally Posted by Though

Originally Posted by 35KD




Keep up the hate

You live nowhere near Miami, though. Hop off their manberries

@ the comment

 

[got shoes]

Originally Posted by Though

Originally Posted by 35KD




Keep up the hate

You live nowhere near Miami, though. Hop off their manberries

@ the comment

 

[dt43]

Originally Posted by cmoneymontana

The only people that are butt hurt about this is the state of Ohio, and NY Knick fans.

i don't know who you've talked to, but i live in MD and honestly nobody i know is happy about this (other than Heat fans). even people who don't follow any particular team, or don't follow the NBA in general.

i've been to a bunch of different messageboards, and all i'm seeing is hate hate hate. people who LOATHED the Lakers all their lives are now saying they'll be the biggest Laker/Kobe fans this year. last night i had the radio on some pop station in the car, and some random drunk b's called in and were like "Lebroooon sucks, he's a such a p*ssy!"

again, this was a Baltimore radio station.

95% of the country outside of Miami is against this.

 

[dt43]

Originally Posted by cmoneymontana

The only people that are butt hurt about this is the state of Ohio, and NY Knick fans.

i don't know who you've talked to, but i live in MD and honestly nobody i know is happy about this (other than Heat fans). even people who don't follow any particular team, or don't follow the NBA in general.

i've been to a bunch of different messageboards, and all i'm seeing is hate hate hate. people who LOATHED the Lakers all their lives are now saying they'll be the biggest Laker/Kobe fans this year. last night i had the radio on some pop station in the car, and some random drunk b's called in and were like "Lebroooon sucks, he's a such a p*ssy!"

again, this was a Baltimore radio station.

95% of the country outside of Miami is against this.

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by Big J 33

Actually, look at the past few pages, not many Knicks fans are arguing at all. Knicks are disappointed that we didn't get him, but also at the superteam in Miami, because we'll eventually have to play against them in the East.

I am still confused why Lakers fans care so much. People can look at some of the new LeBron related threads and they are started by Lakers fans. There is no guarantee that the Heat will meet the Lakers in the next Finals. Where the Cavs fans @?

Originally Posted by DT43

cmoneymontana wrote:

95% of the country outside of Miami is against this.

I'm part of that other 5%.

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by Big J 33

Actually, look at the past few pages, not many Knicks fans are arguing at all. Knicks are disappointed that we didn't get him, but also at the superteam in Miami, because we'll eventually have to play against them in the East.

I am still confused why Lakers fans care so much. People can look at some of the new LeBron related threads and they are started by Lakers fans. There is no guarantee that the Heat will meet the Lakers in the next Finals. Where the Cavs fans @?

Originally Posted by DT43

cmoneymontana wrote:

95% of the country outside of Miami is against this.

I'm part of that other 5%.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by Big J 33

Actually, look at the past few pages, not many Knicks fans are arguing at all. Knicks are disappointed that we didn't get him, but also at the superteam in Miami, because we'll eventually have to play against them in the East.

I am still confused why Lakers fans care so much. People can look at some of the new LeBron related threads and they are started by Lakers fans. There is no guarantee that the Heat will meet the Lakers in the next Finals. Where the Cavs fans @?

Originally Posted by DT43

cmoneymontana wrote:

95% of the country outside of Miami is against this.

I'm part of that other 5%.



"Golf clap"

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by Big J 33

Actually, look at the past few pages, not many Knicks fans are arguing at all. Knicks are disappointed that we didn't get him, but also at the superteam in Miami, because we'll eventually have to play against them in the East.

I am still confused why Lakers fans care so much. People can look at some of the new LeBron related threads and they are started by Lakers fans. There is no guarantee that the Heat will meet the Lakers in the next Finals. Where the Cavs fans @?

Originally Posted by DT43

cmoneymontana wrote:

95% of the country outside of Miami is against this.

I'm part of that other 5%.



"Golf clap"

 

[dipsetgeneral]

Originally Posted by Be23ForLife

so u guys r mad because the team he joined is going to be too good...that there has never been a team where 2 of the starting 5 are top 3 in the NBA.
U guys are mad because he is taking the "easy" way out.

People Fear what they don't understand....
Understand that this has never happened before. Understand that this may be the greatest team ever assembled.
They are doing what LA and Boston did, but 5 years in advance. Imagine the Possibilities.

One of the reasons I am a fan of Lebron is because he always pushes the envelope.
His decision, for me, is stating,

"look, i've done all i can as an individual, and my trophy case is still lonely. basketball is a team sport, and I must surround myself with a team capable of getting me to where i need to be. If my personal game has to suffer, for the team, so be it. I'm coming for championships.. I've proven myself as an individual, my resume is spotless, but it is now time to prove myself as a champion."

What more do you want from the man? You wanted him to be the greatest individual to ever grace the court? For this to happen not only do you need the skill, the commitment, and the build. But you also need the right team, the right front office to assemble that team, and the right coach.

Lebron had the skill, commitment, and build, but not the right team, front office, or coach.

This is where Jordan had it made. Jordan had the skill, commitment, build, with the right coach, front office and team.
He did not have to hold back his game, as his team revolved around him, and because it worked, they won championships with him being the lead ALPHA DOG.

Lebron can be a leader, but he can also be a team mate (one of his best attributes). Lebron as lead alpha dog swag superman wasn't working...no championships were produced.
His desire to win, has caused him to leave home, take less money, sacrifice his game, and sacrifice the lead role. But hes doing it for the rings. if you guys can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

You can't have it all, and Lebron knows this. Might as well appreciate the possibilities of greatness the world will see next season instead of looking at his situation in a negative way.

Bravo

  

 

[dipsetgeneral]

Originally Posted by Be23ForLife

so u guys r mad because the team he joined is going to be too good...that there has never been a team where 2 of the starting 5 are top 3 in the NBA.
U guys are mad because he is taking the "easy" way out.

People Fear what they don't understand....
Understand that this has never happened before. Understand that this may be the greatest team ever assembled.
They are doing what LA and Boston did, but 5 years in advance. Imagine the Possibilities.

One of the reasons I am a fan of Lebron is because he always pushes the envelope.
His decision, for me, is stating,

"look, i've done all i can as an individual, and my trophy case is still lonely. basketball is a team sport, and I must surround myself with a team capable of getting me to where i need to be. If my personal game has to suffer, for the team, so be it. I'm coming for championships.. I've proven myself as an individual, my resume is spotless, but it is now time to prove myself as a champion."

What more do you want from the man? You wanted him to be the greatest individual to ever grace the court? For this to happen not only do you need the skill, the commitment, and the build. But you also need the right team, the right front office to assemble that team, and the right coach.

Lebron had the skill, commitment, and build, but not the right team, front office, or coach.

This is where Jordan had it made. Jordan had the skill, commitment, build, with the right coach, front office and team.
He did not have to hold back his game, as his team revolved around him, and because it worked, they won championships with him being the lead ALPHA DOG.

Lebron can be a leader, but he can also be a team mate (one of his best attributes). Lebron as lead alpha dog swag superman wasn't working...no championships were produced.
His desire to win, has caused him to leave home, take less money, sacrifice his game, and sacrifice the lead role. But hes doing it for the rings. if you guys can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

You can't have it all, and Lebron knows this. Might as well appreciate the possibilities of greatness the world will see next season instead of looking at his situation in a negative way.

Bravo

  

 

[chitown4eva]

Originally Posted by Be23ForLife

Props sir.

 

[chitown4eva]

Originally Posted by Be23ForLife

Props sir.

 

[fro b giant]

Double

 

[fro b giant]

Double

 

[fro b giant]

Look, this man can do whatever he wants it's his life and he has to live with the decisions he has made.

I think he should have went to Chicago because there was more upside to that decision in my eyes. He would have been "the man" no question and I think could have lead that team within 3 years to a title.

Whether or not they can even fill the roster with credible people in Miami is still a HUGE question. So what you have 2 great players and on good player (Bosh), who else you got that is going to help out? Defensively? Offensively?

Not even touching on his legacy, just talking winning, I am not sure they can win this way with this team. To be fair I am not sure they can lose this way either because they haven't played any games together with whatever team they are going to put together. So really we don't know for sure.

No matter what though, people cannot deny that the VAST majority crowned this boy KING way before he ever earned anything (he still hasn't). To me he won't ever be KING either.

You can't be KING by dominating on a team in Cleveland, racking up stats getting regular season MVP's and then failing in the playoffs every year regressing. Taking a superior team every year one LESS step closer to a title!!! Then say well I guess I can't win there and go to a team with DWade (who has already won as "the man" of his team) and win there NOT racking up stats like you once did (because this is what will probably happen if they hope to win), taking a back seat to DWade.

TO ME YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALL AT THE SAME TIME!!! You got to be "the man" on the team and win rings on that same team to be great. Not score 30 points one night, 20 rebounds another night, and 15 assists yet another night. You got to do it all on the same night so to speak.

As a fan of BASKETBALL and Lebron (yes I said I like Lebron as a player and I am a Lakers fan) I am disappointed because he was making HIMSELF to be the next big thing since Kobe and he, to me, has already failed. I know his career is not over, and many might liken this to MJ's sabbatical from Basketball to Baseball, but it is completely different. I would have rather seen him step away for a year for whatever reason than see him go to Miami in the fashion he did.

He said himself he wanted to win more than anything else, if that's the case he should have went to Chicago, where there are WAY LESS QUESTION MARKS and more stability.

But he wants to play with his friends, which shows me he thinks like a kid. Whether or not any of this is truth this is how it appears to me.

If it comes out later he wins a ridiculous amount of rings and it's obvious Dwade and Bosh take the back seat to his Alpha Dog then I will gladly retract my statements but not until then. Until then then he is no King at all, the closest he will get to a King is the one on the chess board who acts as the Queens (Dwade) bodyguard.

 

[fro b giant]

Look, this man can do whatever he wants it's his life and he has to live with the decisions he has made.

I think he should have went to Chicago because there was more upside to that decision in my eyes. He would have been "the man" no question and I think could have lead that team within 3 years to a title.

Whether or not they can even fill the roster with credible people in Miami is still a HUGE question. So what you have 2 great players and on good player (Bosh), who else you got that is going to help out? Defensively? Offensively?

Not even touching on his legacy, just talking winning, I am not sure they can win this way with this team. To be fair I am not sure they can lose this way either because they haven't played any games together with whatever team they are going to put together. So really we don't know for sure.

No matter what though, people cannot deny that the VAST majority crowned this boy KING way before he ever earned anything (he still hasn't). To me he won't ever be KING either.

You can't be KING by dominating on a team in Cleveland, racking up stats getting regular season MVP's and then failing in the playoffs every year regressing. Taking a superior team every year one LESS step closer to a title!!! Then say well I guess I can't win there and go to a team with DWade (who has already won as "the man" of his team) and win there NOT racking up stats like you once did (because this is what will probably happen if they hope to win), taking a back seat to DWade.

TO ME YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALL AT THE SAME TIME!!! You got to be "the man" on the team and win rings on that same team to be great. Not score 30 points one night, 20 rebounds another night, and 15 assists yet another night. You got to do it all on the same night so to speak.

As a fan of BASKETBALL and Lebron (yes I said I like Lebron as a player and I am a Lakers fan) I am disappointed because he was making HIMSELF to be the next big thing since Kobe and he, to me, has already failed. I know his career is not over, and many might liken this to MJ's sabbatical from Basketball to Baseball, but it is completely different. I would have rather seen him step away for a year for whatever reason than see him go to Miami in the fashion he did.

He said himself he wanted to win more than anything else, if that's the case he should have went to Chicago, where there are WAY LESS QUESTION MARKS and more stability.

But he wants to play with his friends, which shows me he thinks like a kid. Whether or not any of this is truth this is how it appears to me.

If it comes out later he wins a ridiculous amount of rings and it's obvious Dwade and Bosh take the back seat to his Alpha Dog then I will gladly retract my statements but not until then. Until then then he is no King at all, the closest he will get to a King is the one on the chess board who acts as the Queens (Dwade) bodyguard.

 

[i am nas]

Originally Posted by Be23ForLife

so u guys r mad because the team he joined is going to be too good...that there has never been a team where 2 of the starting 5 are top 3 in the NBA.
U guys are mad because he is taking the "easy" way out.

People Fear what they don't understand....
Understand that this has never happened before. Understand that this may be the greatest team ever assembled.
They are doing what LA and Boston did, but 5 years in advance. Imagine the Possibilities.

One of the reasons I am a fan of Lebron is because he always pushes the envelope.
His decision, for me, is stating,

"look, i've done all i can as an individual, and my trophy case is still lonely. basketball is a team sport, and I must surround myself with a team capable of getting me to where i need to be. If my personal game has to suffer, for the team, so be it. I'm coming for championships.. I've proven myself as an individual, my resume is spotless, but it is now time to prove myself as a champion."

What more do you want from the man? You wanted him to be the greatest individual to ever grace the court? For this to happen not only do you need the skill, the commitment, and the build. But you also need the right team, the right front office to assemble that team, and the right coach.

Lebron had the skill, commitment, and build, but not the right team, front office, or coach.

This is where Jordan had it made. Jordan had the skill, commitment, build, with the right coach, front office and team.
He did not have to hold back his game, as his team revolved around him, and because it worked, they won championships with him being the lead ALPHA DOG.

Lebron can be a leader, but he can also be a team mate (one of his best attributes). Lebron as lead alpha dog swag superman wasn't working...no championships were produced.
His desire to win, has caused him to leave home, take less money, sacrifice his game, and sacrifice the lead role. But hes doing it for the rings. if you guys can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

You can't have it all, and Lebron knows this. Might as well appreciate the possibilities of greatness the world will see next season instead of looking at his situation in a negative way.

this was dope. i agree with some of what you said. and its a different way of viewing it. i applaud you for it...

but this dude right below me sums up why there is much disappointment in his move, so much more was expected of him... and alot of that was cause of his own doing

im sorry ,but what can you say about a player who hyped himself up.called himself the king,but didnt earn that title rightfully.you dont just come into a league calling yourself KING without earning it.getting a tat that says CHOSEN 1 and LOYALTY.speaking in third person.then join other elite players to make it easier.##+# mj never spoke like that.he let his game speak.our decade HAD the chance to see something that might have been better than mj.and yes ,ive seen dude play live.lets all be for real here,he did it to himself.im not siding with anyone.its just my opinion.if he never did any of that to begin with,there wouldnt be so much anger towards him...

 

[i am nas]

Originally Posted by Be23ForLife

so u guys r mad because the team he joined is going to be too good...that there has never been a team where 2 of the starting 5 are top 3 in the NBA.
U guys are mad because he is taking the "easy" way out.

People Fear what they don't understand....
Understand that this has never happened before. Understand that this may be the greatest team ever assembled.
They are doing what LA and Boston did, but 5 years in advance. Imagine the Possibilities.

One of the reasons I am a fan of Lebron is because he always pushes the envelope.
His decision, for me, is stating,

"look, i've done all i can as an individual, and my trophy case is still lonely. basketball is a team sport, and I must surround myself with a team capable of getting me to where i need to be. If my personal game has to suffer, for the team, so be it. I'm coming for championships.. I've proven myself as an individual, my resume is spotless, but it is now time to prove myself as a champion."

What more do you want from the man? You wanted him to be the greatest individual to ever grace the court? For this to happen not only do you need the skill, the commitment, and the build. But you also need the right team, the right front office to assemble that team, and the right coach.

Lebron had the skill, commitment, and build, but not the right team, front office, or coach.

This is where Jordan had it made. Jordan had the skill, commitment, build, with the right coach, front office and team.
He did not have to hold back his game, as his team revolved around him, and because it worked, they won championships with him being the lead ALPHA DOG.

Lebron can be a leader, but he can also be a team mate (one of his best attributes). Lebron as lead alpha dog swag superman wasn't working...no championships were produced.
His desire to win, has caused him to leave home, take less money, sacrifice his game, and sacrifice the lead role. But hes doing it for the rings. if you guys can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

You can't have it all, and Lebron knows this. Might as well appreciate the possibilities of greatness the world will see next season instead of looking at his situation in a negative way.

this was dope. i agree with some of what you said. and its a different way of viewing it. i applaud you for it...

but this dude right below me sums up why there is much disappointment in his move, so much more was expected of him... and alot of that was cause of his own doing

im sorry ,but what can you say about a player who hyped himself up.called himself the king,but didnt earn that title rightfully.you dont just come into a league calling yourself KING without earning it.getting a tat that says CHOSEN 1 and LOYALTY.speaking in third person.then join other elite players to make it easier.##+# mj never spoke like that.he let his game speak.our decade HAD the chance to see something that might have been better than mj.and yes ,ive seen dude play live.lets all be for real here,he did it to himself.im not siding with anyone.its just my opinion.if he never did any of that to begin with,there wouldnt be so much anger towards him...

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by DipsetGeneral

Originally Posted by Be23ForLife

so u guys r mad because the team he joined is going to be too good...that there has never been a team where 2 of the starting 5 are top 3 in the NBA.
U guys are mad because he is taking the "easy" way out.

People Fear what they don't understand....
Understand that this has never happened before. Understand that this may be the greatest team ever assembled.
They are doing what LA and Boston did, but 5 years in advance. Imagine the Possibilities.

One of the reasons I am a fan of Lebron is because he always pushes the envelope.
His decision, for me, is stating,

"look, i've done all i can as an individual, and my trophy case is still lonely. basketball is a team sport, and I must surround myself with a team capable of getting me to where i need to be. If my personal game has to suffer, for the team, so be it. I'm coming for championships.. I've proven myself as an individual, my resume is spotless, but it is now time to prove myself as a champion."

What more do you want from the man? You wanted him to be the greatest individual to ever grace the court? For this to happen not only do you need the skill, the commitment, and the build. But you also need the right team, the right front office to assemble that team, and the right coach.

Lebron had the skill, commitment, and build, but not the right team, front office, or coach.

This is where Jordan had it made. Jordan had the skill, commitment, build, with the right coach, front office and team.
He did not have to hold back his game, as his team revolved around him, and because it worked, they won championships with him being the lead ALPHA DOG.

Lebron can be a leader, but he can also be a team mate (one of his best attributes). Lebron as lead alpha dog swag superman wasn't working...no championships were produced.
His desire to win, has caused him to leave home, take less money, sacrifice his game, and sacrifice the lead role. But hes doing it for the rings. if you guys can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

You can't have it all, and Lebron knows this. Might as well appreciate the possibilities of greatness the world will see next season instead of looking at his situation in a negative way.

Bravo

  

this...if ur a lebron fan why u mad this? Plus ppl act like they not gonna run plays for him or somethin lolz

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by DipsetGeneral

Originally Posted by Be23ForLife

so u guys r mad because the team he joined is going to be too good...that there has never been a team where 2 of the starting 5 are top 3 in the NBA.
U guys are mad because he is taking the "easy" way out.

People Fear what they don't understand....
Understand that this has never happened before. Understand that this may be the greatest team ever assembled.
They are doing what LA and Boston did, but 5 years in advance. Imagine the Possibilities.

One of the reasons I am a fan of Lebron is because he always pushes the envelope.
His decision, for me, is stating,

"look, i've done all i can as an individual, and my trophy case is still lonely. basketball is a team sport, and I must surround myself with a team capable of getting me to where i need to be. If my personal game has to suffer, for the team, so be it. I'm coming for championships.. I've proven myself as an individual, my resume is spotless, but it is now time to prove myself as a champion."

What more do you want from the man? You wanted him to be the greatest individual to ever grace the court? For this to happen not only do you need the skill, the commitment, and the build. But you also need the right team, the right front office to assemble that team, and the right coach.

Lebron had the skill, commitment, and build, but not the right team, front office, or coach.

This is where Jordan had it made. Jordan had the skill, commitment, build, with the right coach, front office and team.
He did not have to hold back his game, as his team revolved around him, and because it worked, they won championships with him being the lead ALPHA DOG.

Lebron can be a leader, but he can also be a team mate (one of his best attributes). Lebron as lead alpha dog swag superman wasn't working...no championships were produced.
His desire to win, has caused him to leave home, take less money, sacrifice his game, and sacrifice the lead role. But hes doing it for the rings. if you guys can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

You can't have it all, and Lebron knows this. Might as well appreciate the possibilities of greatness the world will see next season instead of looking at his situation in a negative way.

Bravo

  

this...if ur a lebron fan why u mad this? Plus ppl act like they not gonna run plays for him or somethin lolz

 

[chitown4eva]

but this dude right below me sums up why there is much disappointment in his move, so much more was expected of him... and alot of that was cause of his own doing
There's a difference between disappointment and hate.  Most of what we're seeing is plain HATE.

 

[chitown4eva]

but this dude right below me sums up why there is much disappointment in his move, so much more was expected of him... and alot of that was cause of his own doing
There's a difference between disappointment and hate.  Most of what we're seeing is plain HATE.

 

[misterp0315]

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by Big J 33

Actually, look at the past few pages, not many Knicks fans are arguing at all. Knicks are disappointed that we didn't get him, but also at the superteam in Miami, because we'll eventually have to play against them in the East.

I am still confused why Lakers fans care so much. People can look at some of the new LeBron related threads and they are started by Lakers fans. There is no guarantee that the Heat will meet the Lakers in the next Finals. Where the Cavs fans @?

Originally Posted by DT43

cmoneymontana wrote:

95% of the country
outside of Miami is against this.

I'm part of that other 5%.




Somehow, being a LeBron fan became synonymous with hating Kobe and the Lakers...instead of appreciating 2 great players.

For years, LeBron fans raised hell about how LeBron took a bad team to Finals and steady played the "if" game. "If Kobe was on that team, they wouldn't have made the playoffs." or "If LeBron had Kobe's current team, they'd go 82-0."

Gassed yourselves up after every acquisition...like Shaq and Jamison and even Mo. Two straight seasons of being the best team in basketball during the regular season. Talked all kinds of nonsense after regular season "championships" against the Lakers. "See you in the Finals, Laker fans. Kobe sucks. Lulz!"

LeBron and the Cavs fail in the playoffs...and suddenly, his supporting cast sucks. "He can't do it all himself." "Kobe has 3 rings because of Shaq." "Kobe has 2 more rings because of Pau." A lot of discrediting going on.

And then...LeBron joins forces with undoubtedly a top 5 player in the league in Wade and arguably the #2 PF in the league...and all of the discrediting goes out the window IF he wins. That's pretty...interesting.

 

[misterp0315]

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by Big J 33

Actually, look at the past few pages, not many Knicks fans are arguing at all. Knicks are disappointed that we didn't get him, but also at the superteam in Miami, because we'll eventually have to play against them in the East.

I am still confused why Lakers fans care so much. People can look at some of the new LeBron related threads and they are started by Lakers fans. There is no guarantee that the Heat will meet the Lakers in the next Finals. Where the Cavs fans @?

Originally Posted by DT43

cmoneymontana wrote:

95% of the country
outside of Miami is against this.

I'm part of that other 5%.




Somehow, being a LeBron fan became synonymous with hating Kobe and the Lakers...instead of appreciating 2 great players.

For years, LeBron fans raised hell about how LeBron took a bad team to Finals and steady played the "if" game. "If Kobe was on that team, they wouldn't have made the playoffs." or "If LeBron had Kobe's current team, they'd go 82-0."

Gassed yourselves up after every acquisition...like Shaq and Jamison and even Mo. Two straight seasons of being the best team in basketball during the regular season. Talked all kinds of nonsense after regular season "championships" against the Lakers. "See you in the Finals, Laker fans. Kobe sucks. Lulz!"

LeBron and the Cavs fail in the playoffs...and suddenly, his supporting cast sucks. "He can't do it all himself." "Kobe has 3 rings because of Shaq." "Kobe has 2 more rings because of Pau." A lot of discrediting going on.

And then...LeBron joins forces with undoubtedly a top 5 player in the league in Wade and arguably the #2 PF in the league...and all of the discrediting goes out the window IF he wins. That's pretty...interesting.