Should Student Athletes be Compensated??

[trueblack88]

Originally Posted by curt2121

100% no. Free tuition, room/board, and a stipend for books in addition to free athletic gear, transportation, tutoring, etc is all they should get. They are STUDENT athletes. And while I fully concede the days of the true scholar athlete are long gone in most circumstances, it is the true ideal that everyone should be striving for. The bottom line is the solid majority of these kids are getting into schools they would NEVER get into solely on academics (more so for the "major" sports than the smaller, less credited sports which usually involve significantly more intelligent athletes). Yet, concurrently, most of these kids will never make it pro or see any real money from their athletic skill. Yet still, they were able to have that degree, make connections, and be able to get a job in a relevant field or at least from some booster if worst comes to worst. So really, they are being compensated in that form, it's just delayed compensation. Otherwise, most of them would just be going nowhere in life.

They aren't being 'compensated' because they benefit from getting into a school they have no business, academically, being in. The school isn'tdoing them a favor. The school is just pimping and exploiting them so they can generate money and cash-flow. And its nice to be able to say, "I went tosuch and such college", but if you don't have the skills or capabilities to prove the substance behind the degree, you're as good as worthless.And thats assuming the athlete even stays in college for four years, which most athletes don't seem to be doing...

Just because they are 'STUDENTS' doesn't mean they shouldn't get a more reflective cut of the money they are bringing in...

 

[southzeztpdot]

Lets be serious though. On a football team of 68 only like 3 dudes are big enough to even warrant any type of money.

 

[infamousod]

Originally Posted by Rexanglorum

On the one hand, I agree with what everyone has said about the ideal of student athletes, the fact that they can get into schools they otherwise would not have and the fact that they will eventually either go pro or not go pro and get hookup with a job from a booster. On the other hand, I look at how the current system is actually harmful to the schools as a whole.

The players who play basketball and football in top programs make a lot of money for their school and getting more blue chip players means more success for a program and more money. This means that schools will do what ever they are allowed to so to attract talent. Since they cannot pay the players who are making millions in profits for their school, they school competes for new talent by building lavish training facilities and venues. Schools spend tens of millions on state of the art venues, training facilities and other perks because in the absence of being able to bid for talent directly they have to do it in an indirect and very expensive manner, so expensive that huge sums of money are spent to indirectly bid for and compensate players and that is money that could be spent on academics.

Since most college sports programs do not make a profit, a full ride scholarship is more than enough compensation for most athletes. For those few that are in the big money sports, basketball land football, the case can be made for the players getting a small share of the revenues that they create, just like how coaches get money in exchange for winning and generating revenues. I understand why people don;t want to see the student athlete ideal completely obliterated so no they should not be paid millions but a player, especially a star player, for a top flight football or basketball program should be given generous stipend. This way schools could bid for talent directly and not spend nearly as much money as they currently spend on indirect bidding for talent.

The issue for fairness can be debated forever but reality of the unintended consequences of barring players from being paid are beyond discuss. They are real and they are very costly and they take money away from academic endeavors, which is supposed to be the main goal of institutions of higher learning. Even if you absolutely dislike paying student athletes for philosophical reason, you should at least give some thought to the costs being imposed on universities that arise from the current system's flaws.

*cracks knuckles*

alright, now you're going to hear from a sport management student who has attended two D-I schools with athletes facing these issues and has formallystudied these questions.

First of all, the notion that universities build facilities to recruit players is not entirely accurate. Players are far more drawn to schools where they fitinto the system, will get playing time and have a coach that will fight for them to make it to the next level. The facilities are a secondary thought. Plus,the money is usually not being taken away from "academic endeavors," most of it is earmarked (hey I know that word!) for athletics which is an optionon most donation forms for universities. And you seriously rather pay the player than give them a state of the art facility to train and rehab in? You ratherthem work out in out-dated dumps?

Approximately 1 in 5 division I athletic departments DON'T lose money. Meaning 4/5 schools lose money on sports. Paying athletes only means a biggerfinancial hit. Nevermind figuring out whether you pay all students equally or pay the "stars" more, because that's not really the issue. Theissue is most schools can definately NOT afford to pay players and that means players will choose to go to money making programs instead of ones that can'tpay them. It adds a whole other element that where some athletes might even base their decisions on academics and where they fit right, in the end it will comedown to who can pay them.

Another theory that was thrown out there which hasn't been brought up is giving players a cut of jersey sales. Because after all the jerseys are sellingwith their number on them right? Well here's the problem: athletes will only want to go to schools where they will have their jersey selling, guaranteed.

This all leads to a slippery slope. When you add money into the mix you add lawyers and agents. Everything will become litigious and dilluted. There is nothingwrong with the full scholarship players to continue to be compensated as they are now: tuition and fees paid, books paid, on-campus meal plan paid, dorm paid,travel paid etc.


By the way, most coach's contracts, especially the lucrative ones are not entirely funded by the school. The school actively seeks sponsorships for thecoach to endorse or radio shows. So when a coach signs a contract for say 2 million a year, it might be 1 million from the school, 200k for a radio show, 300kfrom the local car dealership he has to do advertisements for and 500k from other advertisements.

 

[infamousod]

Originally Posted by TrueBlack88

Originally Posted by curt2121

100% no. Free tuition, room/board, and a stipend for books in addition to free athletic gear, transportation, tutoring, etc is all they should get. They are STUDENT athletes. And while I fully concede the days of the true scholar athlete are long gone in most circumstances, it is the true ideal that everyone should be striving for. The bottom line is the solid majority of these kids are getting into schools they would NEVER get into solely on academics (more so for the "major" sports than the smaller, less credited sports which usually involve significantly more intelligent athletes). Yet, concurrently, most of these kids will never make it pro or see any real money from their athletic skill. Yet still, they were able to have that degree, make connections, and be able to get a job in a relevant field or at least from some booster if worst comes to worst. So really, they are being compensated in that form, it's just delayed compensation. Otherwise, most of them would just be going nowhere in life.

They aren't being 'compensated' because they benefit from getting into a school they have no business, academically, being in. The school isn't doing them a favor. The school is just pimping and exploiting them so they can generate money and cash-flow. And its nice to be able to say, "I went to such and such college", but if you don't have the skills or capabilities to prove the substance behind the degree, you're as good as worthless. And thats assuming the athlete even stays in college for four years, which most athletes don't seem to be doing...

Just because they are 'STUDENTS' doesn't mean they shouldn't get a more reflective cut of the money they are bringing in...

1. While there are a lot of exceptions made for athletes getting into a school, the minimums are always being raised. The school actually is doing them afavor: athletic advising and compliance are growing exponentially within universities to make sure that they are making the most of their education. Scandalsare always being uncovered but the situation is improving.

2. A lot of athletes do belong in the schools they attend. I would have to find the numbers in a notebook but if I remember correctly the average drop out ratefor a non-student athlete is about 50%, athletes drop out at about 44% rate. Meaning scholarship athletes are actually more likely to finish school thannon-athletes if you can believe that. These numbers may be a little watered down because I don't know how much it accounts for transfers etc, it was fromlike a year ago. Point being they are not MORE likely to drop out or fail because they are athletes.

3. Even if a couple teachers were rounding up grades for athletes it rare cases, it doesn't mean that they were given a degree without having to earn it.Do you have specific examples of athletes not being qualified to have the degree they were given?

 

[HEATHEN]

Originally Posted by Trelvis Tha Thrilla

Originally Posted by vcshoxj6

Their FREE EDUCATION/DEGREE is their compensation. Getting payed to play in college

co-sign.

 

[rexanglorum]

Thanks you for your insight into this issue.

You are right, most sports programs lose money so most athletes are very well compensated by getting a full scholarship. I was throwing the prospect of payingthose few athletes who are in programs that make a lot of money.

You are also right that facilities are not the only thing that attracts players but if you have two similar programs looking to recruit a blue chip athlete,having a state of the art venue and facility is something that can put that school over the top. With the pressure to win every single year in the elitefootball and basketball programs, they are going to do what ever it takes to get more talent than their rivals.

The fact is that there is market for talent and since they cannot bid directly for the player's services they will still bid for that talent in way thatcircumvents the ban on paying players and that can mean over spending on all sorts of goodies to put them over the top when they are recruiting a kid who issplit between your school and another school with similar traits. I am not saying pay players multi-million dollar deals and have them train and play inantiquated, substandard facilities and venues. All I am saying is that athletes who play for the elite programs are not just random students at those schools,they are actively recruited, their talent is a sought after commodity and one way to help to secure that commodity to pay a great deal of money, a great dealmore money than would be spent giving a small share of the money made to the players who were the ones who made that money in the first place.

While the technicalities of how the funding is doled out does not means that the money for stolen from a non athletic budget, the fact is that ultimately theextra money that is spent on lavish facilities and venues is money that could be spent on education.

You are also right that paying athletes brings in a whole host of problems and maybe the problems would exceed the benefits that derive from paying athletes inthe big money programs. Nonetheless, in a time when higher education is vital for economic growth in the coming decades, when the cost of college continues tosoar faster than inflation and families struggle to pay to get their kids and education, we should not rule out the idea of switching to a recruiting processthat would allow the big businesses that are elite football and basketball programs to bid for coveted talent in manner that could reduce the total cost andallow for more funding for academics and financial aid so that institutions of higher learning can grow and become a little more affordable.

 

[infamousod]

Originally Posted by Rexanglorum

Thanks you for your insight into this issue.

You are right, most sports programs lose money so most athletes are very well compensated by getting a full scholarship. I was throwing the prospect of paying those few athletes who are in programs that make a lot of money.

You are also right that facilities are not the only thing that attracts players but if you have two similar programs looking to recruit a blue chip athlete, having a state of the art venue and facility is something that can put that school over the top. With the pressure to win every single year in the elite football and basketball programs, they are going to do what ever it takes to get more talent than their rivals.

The fact is that there is market for talent and since they cannot bid directly for the player's services they will still bid for that talent in way that circumvents the ban on paying players and that can mean over spending on all sorts of goodies to put them over the top when they are recruiting a kid who is split between your school and another school with similar traits. I am not saying pay players multi-million dollar deals and have them train and play in antiquated, substandard facilities and venues. All I am saying is that athletes who play for the elite programs are not just random students at those schools, they are actively recruited, their talent is a sought after commodity and one way to help to secure that commodity to pay a great deal of money, a great deal more money than would be spent giving a small share of the money made to the players who were the ones who made that money in the first place.

While the technicalities of how the funding is doled out does not means that the money for stolen from a non athletic budget, the fact is that ultimately the extra money that is spent on lavish facilities and venues is money that could be spent on education.

You are also right that paying athletes brings in a whole host of problems and maybe the problems would exceed the benefits that derive from paying athletes in the big money programs. Nonetheless, in a time when higher education is vital for economic growth in the coming decades, when the cost of college continues to soar faster than inflation and families struggle to pay to get their kids and education, we should not rule out the idea of switching to a recruiting process that would allow the big businesses that are elite football and basketball programs to bid for coveted talent in manner that could reduce the total cost and allow for more funding for academics and financial aid so that institutions of higher learning can grow and become a little more affordable.

you're a great politician. your weak facts are almost covered up by your fancy wording.

Also, it sounds like you have never explored how an athletic department works. Those facilities are state of the art to be able to better treat and preventinjuries and also serve as learning ground for student athletic trainers its not like they have a day spa in there. I would much rather players look forprograms that will keep them healthy than for one that will pay them the most. Not to mention bidding wars lead to bad blood, and agents/lawyers like I saidbefore, players will want raises and renegotiations.

And your last paragraph can be summed up as so: "We should pay athletes to save money for education"

Your argument is totally off.

 

[finessesosa]

They get to breeze through class doing minimal work...They got to school free...Get girls, Popularity...And I'm sure they get some $$ under the table.

 

[seventh letter]

Originally Posted by southzeztpdot

Lets be serious though. On a football team of 68 only like 3 dudes are big enough to even warrant any type of money.

exactly..

 

[raptors29]

Yeah we should because of the hours we put in. We don't have time to have a part time job.

 

[step your game up]

Answer is no and the reasons have been stated (infamousod got it).

 

[infamousod]

Originally Posted by raptors29

Yeah we should because of the hours we put in. We don't have time to have a part time job.

Most programs don't allow their players to have part-time jobs even if you had the time. That's a choice you made, nobody forced you intoit. If you want a free education the school is obviously willing to help you. If you are having trouble making ends meet take out a loan like every othercollege student.

 

[mdterps4]

No.

Student-Athletes are students, then athletes. You go to college for an education, athletics are just another extracurricular activity. Now, I understand thatthey bring in an immense amount of revenue, but they aren't professional athletes, they are college students that happen to be athletes. Scholarships are agood enough compensation...

Until they're professionals, I don't see any reason for them to get paid.

 

[b1acman365]

Originally Posted by drock2010

I think they should get paid

not too much but something

 

[lsuivs]

I believe that their should be some sort of compensation for top players, but it would be entirely to hard to develop a payment system. Should a 1st stringquarterback get paid the same amount as a 3rd string kicker. And considering that for most schools, basketball and football are the only sports that turn aprofit, should they be only ones that get paid.

And if the students athletes do start to get paid, that will qualify them as "employees" which would then permit them to form a union and negotiatesalaries, revenue sharing, etc....this, itself, would ruin what people like to believe is "pure" about college athletics.

 

[fromthatown]

Originally Posted by curt2121

100% no. Free tuition, room/board, and a stipend for books in addition to free athletic gear, transportation, tutoring, etc is all they should get. They are STUDENT athletes. And while I fully concede the days of the true scholar athlete are long gone in most circumstances, it is the true ideal that everyone should be striving for. The bottom line is the solid majority of these kids are getting into schools they would NEVER get into solely on academics (more so for the "major" sports than the smaller, less credited sports which usually involve significantly more intelligent athletes). Yet, concurrently, most of these kids will never make it pro or see any real money from their athletic skill. Yet still, they were able to have that degree, make connections, and be able to get a job in a relevant field or at least from some booster if worst comes to worst. So really, they are being compensated in that form, it's just delayed compensation. Otherwise, most of them would just be going nowhere in life.

I disagree with you brother cause, in sports there is no guarantee. These student athletes are making billions for people. I'm talking aboutpeople that bet college sports too. Seeing so many people around me, gamble on college sports, like it's breathing to them. I'm a firm believer thatthese so call student athletes are way more than that. If it wasn't, why is there emphasis on RECRUITING? These kids are straight getting pimp, just by thefact that you add STUDENT in front of athlete. Even if they don't make it to the pros( they were able to have that degree, make connections, and be able toget a job in a relevant field or at least from some booster if worst comes to worst. that's what u said), they're still being exploited. Why notcompensate them? Hell, if you these kids get an extra 10k a year on top of what they do or 15k, they might also learn how to manage money at an earlier pointin their life.

 

[infamousod]

Originally Posted by FromThaTown

Originally Posted by curt2121

100% no. Free tuition, room/board, and a stipend for books in addition to free athletic gear, transportation, tutoring, etc is all they should get. They are STUDENT athletes. And while I fully concede the days of the true scholar athlete are long gone in most circumstances, it is the true ideal that everyone should be striving for. The bottom line is the solid majority of these kids are getting into schools they would NEVER get into solely on academics (more so for the "major" sports than the smaller, less credited sports which usually involve significantly more intelligent athletes). Yet, concurrently, most of these kids will never make it pro or see any real money from their athletic skill. Yet still, they were able to have that degree, make connections, and be able to get a job in a relevant field or at least from some booster if worst comes to worst. So really, they are being compensated in that form, it's just delayed compensation. Otherwise, most of them would just be going nowhere in life.

I disagree with you brother cause, in sports there is no guarantee. These student athletes are making billions for people. I'm talking about people that bet college sports too. Seeing so many people around me, gamble on college sports, like it's breathing to them. I'm a firm believer that these so call student athletes are way more than that. If it wasn't, why is there emphasis on RECRUITING? These kids are straight getting pimp, just by the fact that you add STUDENT in front of athlete. Even if they don't make it to the pros( they were able to have that degree, make connections, and be able to get a job in a relevant field or at least from some booster if worst comes to worst. that's what u said), they're still being exploited. Why not compensate them? Hell, if you these kids get an extra 10k a year on top of what they do or 15k, they might also learn how to manage money at an earlier point in their life.

that's a silly notion. giving them $10,000 a year, or any other amount, does nothing but cause more controversy as to why the track stars aren'tgetting paid that too.

"they might also learn how to manage money at an earlier point in their life"
that has nothing to do with it, they are just as (ir)responsible as any other student at that age.

You can't control illegal/legal gambling and you certainly can't make decisions about an athletic program based on them.

The real issue is that too many athletes are putting everything they have into their sport thinking they are going pro, when they should be putting moreemphasis into taking advantage of the free education they are receiving. That is the only thing that really needs to change. Giving them money only makes themmore focused on the sport.

 

[face82]

I see a lot of people sayin the free education is good enough. But think about the ones who aren't goin for school...but to play. That's all they know?Look at some of the smaller schools too. A scolarship doesn't even compare to the millions they make off your %#% . That's why they quick to give youthat lil scolarship and not the average student outa highschool.They lookin for the money makers. My thing is they makin all that dough for them..let them geta piece of the pie. They bustin @@@ 24/7 and every body aint gauranteed to go pro.

 

[bgl2687]

I thought only certain athletes get free education and room and board? The other garbage players dont get free education correct?

 

[infamousod]

Originally Posted by Face82

I see a lot of people sayin the free education is good enough. But think about the ones who aren't goin for school...but to play. That's all they know? Look at some of the smaller schools too. A scolarship doesn't even compare to the millions they make off your %#% . That's why they quick to give you that lil scolarship and not the average student outa highschool.They lookin for the money makers. My thing is they makin all that dough for them..let them get a piece of the pie. They bustin @@@ 24/7 and every body aint gauranteed to go pro.

Yes, for some that have no chance of going pro, their sport is still all they know. That is why they need to be sat down and told the truth:either find your career now or go to college and find a career while there...have a backup plan.

Those millions that the NCAA makes go back into the NCAA. The universities might put that money into paying for coaches to keep them competitive and keeppeople watching college football/basketball but thats fine....because a great big deal of that money goes to funding for non-revenue sports too, giving otherpeople a chance to go to college for free. So I have no real problem if they sell star players jerseys and pimp them to hell as long as the money is going backinto the university system.

Athletes know the deal, they know what they're signing up for and no one is making them bust themselves 24/7.

You've inspried me to do some formal research, I'll see exactly how those millions get put back into the system.

 

[kash55]

Their tuition gets paid for, that's enough.

 

[fromthatown]

Originally Posted by infamousod

Originally Posted by FromThaTown

Originally Posted by curt2121

100% no. Free tuition, room/board, and a stipend for books in addition to free athletic gear, transportation, tutoring, etc is all they should get. They are STUDENT athletes. And while I fully concede the days of the true scholar athlete are long gone in most circumstances, it is the true ideal that everyone should be striving for. The bottom line is the solid majority of these kids are getting into schools they would NEVER get into solely on academics (more so for the "major" sports than the smaller, less credited sports which usually involve significantly more intelligent athletes). Yet, concurrently, most of these kids will never make it pro or see any real money from their athletic skill. Yet still, they were able to have that degree, make connections, and be able to get a job in a relevant field or at least from some booster if worst comes to worst. So really, they are being compensated in that form, it's just delayed compensation. Otherwise, most of them would just be going nowhere in life.

I disagree with you brother cause, in sports there is no guarantee. These student athletes are making billions for people. I'm talking about people that bet college sports too. Seeing so many people around me, gamble on college sports, like it's breathing to them. I'm a firm believer that these so call student athletes are way more than that. If it wasn't, why is there emphasis on RECRUITING? These kids are straight getting pimp, just by the fact that you add STUDENT in front of athlete. Even if they don't make it to the pros( they were able to have that degree, make connections, and be able to get a job in a relevant field or at least from some booster if worst comes to worst. that's what u said), they're still being exploited. Why not compensate them? Hell, if you these kids get an extra 10k a year on top of what they do or 15k, they might also learn how to manage money at an earlier point in their life.

that's a silly notion. giving them $10,000 a year, or any other amount, does nothing but cause more controversy as to why the track stars aren't getting paid that too.

"they might also learn how to manage money at an earlier point in their life"
that has nothing to do with it, they are just as (ir)responsible as any other student at that age.

You can't control illegal/legal gambling and you certainly can't make decisions about an athletic program based on them.

The real issue is that too many athletes are putting everything they have into their sport thinking they are going pro, when they should be putting more emphasis into taking advantage of the free education they are receiving. That is the only thing that really needs to change. Giving them money only makes them more focused on the sport.

1.that's a silly notion. giving them $10,000 a year, or any other amount, does nothing but cause more controversy as to why the track starsaren't getting paid that too.

Hey brother, that's why I didn't bring up a particular sport. We all know football and basketball brings in the money. However, I'm saying everystudent athlete should get compensated for what they bring to the program whether it is a little or alot. People will never get mad for getting money and plusfor all the kids that are athletes that might be in different sports and working, getting paid will help them focus on education if anything. Plus there iscontroversy already as far as student athletes go( receiving houses, cars, condoms, and whatnot) why not put it in the open by paying them?
2."they might also learn how to manage money at an earlier point in their life"
that has nothing to do with it, they are just as (ir)responsible as any other student at that age.


Yeah that's true, but at least they will understand the concept of money if they don't already do. But the kids that lose that money will end uplearning something about managing money and being around the people they are with whether it's for their money, or fame, or just riding the wave of goodtimes. I've failed at managing my money at an early age and now I know how to manage it better. To me, you ain't gonna learn until u fall.

3.The real issue is that too many athletes are putting everything they have into their sport thinking they are going pro, when they should be putting moreemphasis into taking advantage of the free education they are receiving. That is the only thing that really needs to change. Giving them money only makes themmore focused on the sport.

We don't know that. What if you give a kid some extra money???? What if they know how it feels like to be "rich"??? I had 7k in financial aid andI went through it like water. But if these kids got paid for the work and amount of time they put into their craft, they might value their dollar. You aresaying they won't value education if they get paid, but if they get paid, they can focus on their sport that they are in and have to not worry about looseends as far as their family or kids if they already have them.

 

[osubass1]

it's been 8 years since i graduated, and i still pay over $500/month on my student loan.

the money i pay in that loan each month could easily get me an M3, but instead, i have to pay back the $40,000 i borrowed to get through school.

i don't think i would be complaining if i got all of that for free.

 

[sfn 155]

Originally Posted by Face82

I'm watchin a special on ESPN and how college sports generate millions and millions a year. NCAA football alone makes about 500 million a year. Coaches are paid millions, profits are being made off players, jerseys...ect. A few atheles were talking about how they are in credit card debt because they don't have enough money to get by.

Should they give bigger scolarships? Free room and board......something? It isn't like they can work while playing sports and going to class.

What do you think?

1. Student athletes are already "compensated".
2. The vast majority of schools lose money on athletics.
3. Athletes with credit card debt have no one to blame but himself or herself.
4. Full scholarships cover room and board.

Even if someone were to successfully argue that college athletes should be paid, there is absolutely no way for it to work.

 

[sfn 155]

Originally Posted by Face82

I see a lot of people sayin the free education is good enough. But think about the ones who aren't goin for school...but to play. That's all they know? Look at some of the smaller schools too. A scolarship doesn't even compare to the millions they make off your %#% . That's why they quick to give you that lil scolarship and not the average student outa highschool.They lookin for the money makers. My thing is they makin all that dough for them..let them get a piece of the pie. They bustin @@@ 24/7 and every body aint gauranteed to go pro.

Those are the ones that need to take advantage of the free education. If they get a scholarship, know they aren't going to be a pro, andstill don't take advantage of it, they are a fool.