Realistically, what has the sweep done to Kobe's legacy?

[CP1708]

Magic lost 4 finals and was swept, Shaq was swept in Orld, LA, and Miami. When you play a dozen damn years in the playoffs, you bound to take lumps. Only dude that don't know the feeling is Bill Russell. The wins outweigh the losses. Kobe has more titles than anyone who has played in the post MJ era. He hasn't won every series, but his team has succeeded moreso than any other franchise since 96. Duncan got lumps, Dirk got lumps, Bron got lumps, KG got em, TMac got a whole @#$% load of em.....

 

[|A-Man|]

Barring the Dwight trade talk and whoever else may land in LA if Kobe never reaches the finals again this could be regarded as the end of him. Him pulling that lil hissy fit when he was a FA won't work this time around and I could see him being forced in to retirement if the Lakers don't bounce back to competing for a chip within two seasons. I can't see him being on numerous teams seeking that 6th ring.

The sweep by itself hurts the end of the Lakers as a dominant force more than it hurts Kobe. He just can't take over entire games as frequently as he use to.

And just for the speculation without a good pg and a good bench I don't think he gets far paired up with Dwight anyway. He should start talking with DWill or something.

The fact is with Kobe it's a lot more to do with who is on his team than just him anymore.

 

[|A-Man|]

Barring the Dwight trade talk and whoever else may land in LA if Kobe never reaches the finals again this could be regarded as the end of him. Him pulling that lil hissy fit when he was a FA won't work this time around and I could see him being forced in to retirement if the Lakers don't bounce back to competing for a chip within two seasons. I can't see him being on numerous teams seeking that 6th ring.

The sweep by itself hurts the end of the Lakers as a dominant force more than it hurts Kobe. He just can't take over entire games as frequently as he use to.

And just for the speculation without a good pg and a good bench I don't think he gets far paired up with Dwight anyway. He should start talking with DWill or something.

The fact is with Kobe it's a lot more to do with who is on his team than just him anymore.

 

[defobking]

kobe's always choke in important games not so surprising

 

[defobking]

kobe's always choke in important games not so surprising

 

[still1rise]

Nothing and I dont even like Kobe.

 

[still1rise]

Nothing and I dont even like Kobe.

 

[japanair21]

Honestly, this series loss shouldn't be put on Kobe's shoulders.

His team didn't bail him out this time.

2009, they bailed him out.
2010, they bailed him out.

No offense, but in the biggest games, he was bailed out.

In the last three games back in 09, Kobe was 11/25, 11/31, and 10/23. Two key games for LA wins, Kobe was 10/29 and 6/24.

This year, it was Kobe who was trying to bail them out, but he just didn't have any help. He wasn't bad at all this series. No, he didn't score much after game 2, but he didn't play bad except today, but he started off PHENOMENAL. He saw his team was giving up, so I guess he figured why should he try. I don't know.. But if Kobe would have kept up that barrage he did in the first, I feel like this series would still be going on. It was quite strange, really.

Kobe 1st quarter today and quarters 2-4 were COMPLETELY flip-flopped.

First quarter he was slashing, attacking the paint. Quarters 2-4, he was just settling for broke jumpers.

I swear he started out with like 12 points in the first, like 5/8? And then ended 7/18?

EDIT: Kobe started 6/8. Ended 7/18, that's 1/10 the rest of the way.

I just feel like he saw his team give up, and joined em.

 

[japanair21]

Honestly, this series loss shouldn't be put on Kobe's shoulders.

His team didn't bail him out this time.

2009, they bailed him out.
2010, they bailed him out.

No offense, but in the biggest games, he was bailed out.

In the last three games back in 09, Kobe was 11/25, 11/31, and 10/23. Two key games for LA wins, Kobe was 10/29 and 6/24.

This year, it was Kobe who was trying to bail them out, but he just didn't have any help. He wasn't bad at all this series. No, he didn't score much after game 2, but he didn't play bad except today, but he started off PHENOMENAL. He saw his team was giving up, so I guess he figured why should he try. I don't know.. But if Kobe would have kept up that barrage he did in the first, I feel like this series would still be going on. It was quite strange, really.

Kobe 1st quarter today and quarters 2-4 were COMPLETELY flip-flopped.

First quarter he was slashing, attacking the paint. Quarters 2-4, he was just settling for broke jumpers.

I swear he started out with like 12 points in the first, like 5/8? And then ended 7/18?

EDIT: Kobe started 6/8. Ended 7/18, that's 1/10 the rest of the way.

I just feel like he saw his team give up, and joined em.

 

[gijace]

nothing..

 

[gijace]

nothing..

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Oh, you ain't know? Kobe's legacy is a one way street: Only the positives count. Like inflating a ball. Air goes in, but doesn't come out.

Pau Gasol is the eternal scapegoat and Kobe keeps getting free passes. He is 32 years old and he plays less physical than Jordan did with the Wizards. Multiple choke jobs in the clutch this series alone don't seem to have any effect on his rep as being oh so clutch.

Shut the @#*! up about Gasol already. You were a 2 x first round dropout plus a 1 x lottery team before Gasol came, and you wouldn't be a serious contender had he not come. You act like you spent the first overall pick in a draft on him. You got him in a fixed trade for KWAME BROWN. He bailed Kobe out in game 7 in last year's finals. The bottom line is that you wouldn't have the two championships without him, and you esseitially traded away Kwame Brown for two championship trophies. Don't worry, there's probably also a Steve Blake for Dwight Howard trade coming up. Hey, "both teams will be getting something out of it". The Magic will be rebuilding after a first round exit.

And I don't understand why people are bringing up Jordan. No need to feel insecure, it was proven that Kobe is not nor ever will be Jordan all the way back in the 2004 finals. This is just another nail in the Kobe-Jordan comparison coffin, which is already full of nails that were smashed in with a sledgehammer.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Oh, you ain't know? Kobe's legacy is a one way street: Only the positives count. Like inflating a ball. Air goes in, but doesn't come out.

Pau Gasol is the eternal scapegoat and Kobe keeps getting free passes. He is 32 years old and he plays less physical than Jordan did with the Wizards. Multiple choke jobs in the clutch this series alone don't seem to have any effect on his rep as being oh so clutch.

Shut the @#*! up about Gasol already. You were a 2 x first round dropout plus a 1 x lottery team before Gasol came, and you wouldn't be a serious contender had he not come. You act like you spent the first overall pick in a draft on him. You got him in a fixed trade for KWAME BROWN. He bailed Kobe out in game 7 in last year's finals. The bottom line is that you wouldn't have the two championships without him, and you esseitially traded away Kwame Brown for two championship trophies. Don't worry, there's probably also a Steve Blake for Dwight Howard trade coming up. Hey, "both teams will be getting something out of it". The Magic will be rebuilding after a first round exit.

And I don't understand why people are bringing up Jordan. No need to feel insecure, it was proven that Kobe is not nor ever will be Jordan all the way back in the 2004 finals. This is just another nail in the Kobe-Jordan comparison coffin, which is already full of nails that were smashed in with a sledgehammer.

 

[japanair21]

Crazy..

Bynum scored his final points this season 2 minutes into the 2nd quarter.

 

[japanair21]

Crazy..

Bynum scored his final points this season 2 minutes into the 2nd quarter.

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Kobe couldn't get it done with a good team this time. Simple as that. 

But really, the best player will always get the love for the wins and the blame for the losses. It is what it is. 

Present T-Mac fanboy, so yeh, team sports my !@!.

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Kobe couldn't get it done with a good team this time. Simple as that. 

But really, the best player will always get the love for the wins and the blame for the losses. It is what it is. 

Present T-Mac fanboy, so yeh, team sports my !@!.

 

[khoshabasfinest23]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Oh, you ain't know? Kobe's legacy is a one way street: Only the positives count. Like inflating a ball. Air goes in, but doesn't come out.

Pau Gasol is the eternal scapegoat and Kobe keeps getting free passes. He is 32 years old and he plays less physical than Jordan did with the Wizards. Multiple choke jobs in the clutch this series alone don't seem to have any effect on his rep as being oh so clutch.

Shut the @#*! up about Gasol already. You were a 2 x first round dropout plus a 1 x lottery team before Gasol came, and you wouldn't be a serious contender had he not come. You act like you spent the first overall pick in a draft on him. You got him in a fixed trade for KWAME BROWN. He bailed Kobe out in game 7 in last year's finals. The bottom line is that you wouldn't have the two championships without him, and you esseitially traded away Kwame Brown for two championship trophies. Don't worry, there's probably also a Steve Blake for Dwight Howard trade coming up. Hey, "both teams will be getting something out of it". The Magic will be rebuilding after a first round exit.

And I don't understand why people are bringing up Jordan. No need to feel insecure, it was proven that Kobe is not nor ever will be Jordan all the way back in the 2004 finals. This is just another nail in the Kobe-Jordan comparison coffin, which is already full of nails that were smashed in with a sledgehammer.

QFT
last two times being eliminated in the playoffs by 39 and 36 

 the jordan comparison is just 

 

[khoshabasfinest23]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Oh, you ain't know? Kobe's legacy is a one way street: Only the positives count. Like inflating a ball. Air goes in, but doesn't come out.

Pau Gasol is the eternal scapegoat and Kobe keeps getting free passes. He is 32 years old and he plays less physical than Jordan did with the Wizards. Multiple choke jobs in the clutch this series alone don't seem to have any effect on his rep as being oh so clutch.

Shut the @#*! up about Gasol already. You were a 2 x first round dropout plus a 1 x lottery team before Gasol came, and you wouldn't be a serious contender had he not come. You act like you spent the first overall pick in a draft on him. You got him in a fixed trade for KWAME BROWN. He bailed Kobe out in game 7 in last year's finals. The bottom line is that you wouldn't have the two championships without him, and you esseitially traded away Kwame Brown for two championship trophies. Don't worry, there's probably also a Steve Blake for Dwight Howard trade coming up. Hey, "both teams will be getting something out of it". The Magic will be rebuilding after a first round exit.

And I don't understand why people are bringing up Jordan. No need to feel insecure, it was proven that Kobe is not nor ever will be Jordan all the way back in the 2004 finals. This is just another nail in the Kobe-Jordan comparison coffin, which is already full of nails that were smashed in with a sledgehammer.

QFT
last two times being eliminated in the playoffs by 39 and 36 

 the jordan comparison is just 

 

[mco85]

It crazy how underappreciated this dude is. 5 rings, 7 finals appearances, thats legendary. When he was winning with Shaq he was no good because he was second fiddle. When he carried garbage teams to the playoffs by scoring 35 a game he was a ball hog and selfish. When he won 2 more titles it was all because of Pau (who had never won a playoff game.) No matter what people will always hate Kobe

 

[mco85]

It crazy how underappreciated this dude is. 5 rings, 7 finals appearances, thats legendary. When he was winning with Shaq he was no good because he was second fiddle. When he carried garbage teams to the playoffs by scoring 35 a game he was a ball hog and selfish. When he won 2 more titles it was all because of Pau (who had never won a playoff game.) No matter what people will always hate Kobe

 

[acidicality]

Originally Posted by mco85

It crazy how underappreciated this dude is. 5 rings, 7 finals appearances, thats legendary. When he was winning with Shaq he was no good because he was second fiddle. When he carried garbage teams to the playoffs by scoring 35 a game he was a ball hog and selfish. When he won 2 more titles it was all because of Pau (who had never won a playoff game.) No matter what people will always hate Kobe

 

[acidicality]

Originally Posted by mco85

It crazy how underappreciated this dude is. 5 rings, 7 finals appearances, thats legendary. When he was winning with Shaq he was no good because he was second fiddle. When he carried garbage teams to the playoffs by scoring 35 a game he was a ball hog and selfish. When he won 2 more titles it was all because of Pau (who had never won a playoff game.) No matter what people will always hate Kobe

 

[holdenmichael]

kobe always do this during playoffs aka playing worse than regular season games. idk maybe he feels pressure or something

he's definitely better during the season..


A cursory look as his stats on NBA.com shows that isn't true.


The history of sweeps and blowouts to end the season are only relevant if we can give them context (How does this compare to other players?, Who were they against?, etc.).

No offense, but in the biggest games, he was bailed out.


Again,

A cursory look as his stats on ESPN.com shows that isn't true.


Even watching the games would help. He made good plays even if he took bad shots. He did his job and his teammates did their job.


Regarding Kobe's legacy and this sweep's effect on it, at least a couple of people have already posted the opinion I share, he's done enough that nothing will change it. He's won before, he's repeated as a champion before, he's been swept, and he's been blown out.

A legacy is going to be contextual (who'd you play against?, how was scoring?, depth of talent, type of play, etc.) and personal (he's up and down, he's #2 overall, he's #2 SG & top 10 all-time, he's top 20 all-time, he's 21st all-time, etc.) so this sweep and his contribution to it can and does have different meaning for different people. There doesn't have to be an absolute so I wouldn't debate my opinion regarding legacy being better than another.

 

[holdenmichael]

kobe always do this during playoffs aka playing worse than regular season games. idk maybe he feels pressure or something

he's definitely better during the season..


A cursory look as his stats on NBA.com shows that isn't true.


The history of sweeps and blowouts to end the season are only relevant if we can give them context (How does this compare to other players?, Who were they against?, etc.).

No offense, but in the biggest games, he was bailed out.


Again,

A cursory look as his stats on ESPN.com shows that isn't true.


Even watching the games would help. He made good plays even if he took bad shots. He did his job and his teammates did their job.


Regarding Kobe's legacy and this sweep's effect on it, at least a couple of people have already posted the opinion I share, he's done enough that nothing will change it. He's won before, he's repeated as a champion before, he's been swept, and he's been blown out.

A legacy is going to be contextual (who'd you play against?, how was scoring?, depth of talent, type of play, etc.) and personal (he's up and down, he's #2 overall, he's #2 SG & top 10 all-time, he's top 20 all-time, he's 21st all-time, etc.) so this sweep and his contribution to it can and does have different meaning for different people. There doesn't have to be an absolute so I wouldn't debate my opinion regarding legacy being better than another.