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his shoes are highly rated
one of the greatest signature shoes of all times
one of the greatest signature shoes of all times
Penny Hardaway is/was Overrated.
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by clutchshooter,
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Dog, GP?
GP?!?
Not GP from the Heat. But GP from the Sonics... in your opinion was the most overrated 90's player?? Damn son.
nitzski wrote:
Pip was a good player nothing more. You have to look no further than his years in Houston and Portland to realize he wasn't the player you guys would like to remember him as.
You're actually using years when he was clearly on the downside of his career to justify your remarks??Come on now.
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Let me guess, the people who vote for the All-NBA Teams also voted him in because of his shoes.
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People forget to realize those All-NBA teams also have a little to do with team Records. The best players on the teams with the best records get picked forthose teams respectively. The First Team All NBA are the 5 MVP candidates. And usually MVP candidates are on teams with the best records in the league.
I was a damn kid in 95(but my mental age is always double that of my biological age). My NBA memory is quite vivid. Penny was on a stacked team. Anyoneremember that Magic squad with Nick Anderson, Shaq, and Horace Grant? Penny was playing the point on a team of excellent offensive threats. Not to mention Shaqwon the scoring title one of those years. All this consider, Penny was still a beast. He was a true one two punch at the guard position. Is he overrated? Yes..All these over hyped guys are. They have flaws, but they get overlooked because of the hype that goes with being who they are. One aspect of Penny's gamethat is the most overrated is his scoring. He wasn't that great of a scorer. I don't care about the numbers. Penny was never a pure scorer. He was anexceptional shooter though. His athleticism was that exceptional, but his PASSING WAS OTHERWORLDLY!
Nike always use to throw around the next Jordan comparisons, to sell shoes(just as they do with LeBron), but I thought he would be the next Magic. We alldon't know what he would have been though, because he got injured.
I was a damn kid in 95(but my mental age is always double that of my biological age). My NBA memory is quite vivid. Penny was on a stacked team. Anyoneremember that Magic squad with Nick Anderson, Shaq, and Horace Grant? Penny was playing the point on a team of excellent offensive threats. Not to mention Shaqwon the scoring title one of those years. All this consider, Penny was still a beast. He was a true one two punch at the guard position. Is he overrated? Yes..All these over hyped guys are. They have flaws, but they get overlooked because of the hype that goes with being who they are. One aspect of Penny's gamethat is the most overrated is his scoring. He wasn't that great of a scorer. I don't care about the numbers. Penny was never a pure scorer. He was anexceptional shooter though. His athleticism was that exceptional, but his PASSING WAS OTHERWORLDLY!
Nike always use to throw around the next Jordan comparisons, to sell shoes(just as they do with LeBron), but I thought he would be the next Magic. We alldon't know what he would have been though, because he got injured.
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Penny Hardaway was NOT overrated. You say you saw the man play so you should know this. Penny was the first modern era mold of that two guard who could handlethe ball, pass and be the ultimate playmaker. His stats are certainly not reflective of the skill and talent the man posessed. I dont see anyone in here sayingthat penny is the best player of that time, or saying hes the best ever... hell your %*$$$%+ crazy if you think he is a hall of famer, but one thing is forcertain: he helped pave the way for the all around player. All of a sudden after penny we started see 6 "6, 6 "7 dudes who could actually handle theball word to tmac, vince, etc.
He was unquestionably a first team all star during those years. Not only did he put up those numbers but his intangibles were always there. He could d up guysas well. The media and hype and commercials certainly HELPED make his image, but they did not MAKE him a star. He still went out and performed. He still pulledoff those no look passes under the hoop, he still broke guys from the three point line and crammed it on dudes. I think he would have been a much better playerif that whole penny personna did not come about but thats just me. The same thing that hurts penny also helps him. A lot of people look at those years and sayhe only played well for a short period of time, he wasnt consistent, etc, but it was those years that we can also look back at and appreciate the man forbecause he was undoubtedly one of the greatest talents the league has ever seen. YES i said ever. its just a shame it didnt turn out the way it should have.
ONLY knock on penny and im not sure how many of you guys remember this was when he said he could average 40 a game when shaq left.
He was unquestionably a first team all star during those years. Not only did he put up those numbers but his intangibles were always there. He could d up guysas well. The media and hype and commercials certainly HELPED make his image, but they did not MAKE him a star. He still went out and performed. He still pulledoff those no look passes under the hoop, he still broke guys from the three point line and crammed it on dudes. I think he would have been a much better playerif that whole penny personna did not come about but thats just me. The same thing that hurts penny also helps him. A lot of people look at those years and sayhe only played well for a short period of time, he wasnt consistent, etc, but it was those years that we can also look back at and appreciate the man forbecause he was undoubtedly one of the greatest talents the league has ever seen. YES i said ever. its just a shame it didnt turn out the way it should have.
ONLY knock on penny and im not sure how many of you guys remember this was when he said he could average 40 a game when shaq left.
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and dont even get me started on GP being overrated..... if anything son is UNDERRATED.
GP from the sonics> your life
GP from the sonics> your life
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Penny isnt overated at all its easy to say that now but the years that he played he was a star he was Rookie Game MVP in a stacked rookie class that includedMashburn,Webber,Kukoc,Cassell,Van Exel,Rider amongst others and was a consistant All star 94-98.
One thing you have to remember he was a star on a solid team all 5 starters contributed even before Horace Grant went to the Magic you dont have many teams inthe NBA today that have a complete team that compliments eachother Penny averaged those numbers within the system of the team with Shaq there for the mostpart.The Magic also had a solid bench so he didnt play extended minutes he had Skiles and then Shaw to back him up.
When Shaq was out with the thumb injury from Matt Geiger in late 95 Penny carried the Magic on his back makeing game winners and carrying the Magic past astacked Bulls team they had no busines beating and they had a much better record than anybody anticipated without the big fella.
After Shaq left it was Pennys team and he played well but I dont really think he wanted it to be HIS team he was a team player a quiet leader on the court hewas given the weight of the franchise but I doubt he wanted it.
He played great in the 96 Olympics also was a key contributer on a stacked team he belonged with the stars of the mid 90s NBA he was right up there and how canI overlook the Playoff series against the heat where he was on fire for 4 consectuve games he was unstopable just nobody else helped him out that series
Yes he was bigger because of his shoes and the Lil Penny commercials but he only got that exposure and shoe from being the player he was if anything the onlyproblem I had with him was when he gave up on Orlando when times got rough and he cried to be traded
To the guy who said Pippens overated u have no clue about the game of basketball Scottie Pippen created the modern small forward he was tha completecomplimentry player on both ends of the floor athletic,great scorer,incrediable defender and he could handle the rock like a point and pass what are u talkinbout man?
Yes injurys took away the latter years of Pennys career but I think we got to see the best of him in the 90s he was never the same in Phoenix or New Yorkmostly because of his knee and it was hard to watch but Ive got great memorys of the 90s Penny.
Peace
Scottie
One thing you have to remember he was a star on a solid team all 5 starters contributed even before Horace Grant went to the Magic you dont have many teams inthe NBA today that have a complete team that compliments eachother Penny averaged those numbers within the system of the team with Shaq there for the mostpart.The Magic also had a solid bench so he didnt play extended minutes he had Skiles and then Shaw to back him up.
When Shaq was out with the thumb injury from Matt Geiger in late 95 Penny carried the Magic on his back makeing game winners and carrying the Magic past astacked Bulls team they had no busines beating and they had a much better record than anybody anticipated without the big fella.
After Shaq left it was Pennys team and he played well but I dont really think he wanted it to be HIS team he was a team player a quiet leader on the court hewas given the weight of the franchise but I doubt he wanted it.
He played great in the 96 Olympics also was a key contributer on a stacked team he belonged with the stars of the mid 90s NBA he was right up there and how canI overlook the Playoff series against the heat where he was on fire for 4 consectuve games he was unstopable just nobody else helped him out that series
Yes he was bigger because of his shoes and the Lil Penny commercials but he only got that exposure and shoe from being the player he was if anything the onlyproblem I had with him was when he gave up on Orlando when times got rough and he cried to be traded
To the guy who said Pippens overated u have no clue about the game of basketball Scottie Pippen created the modern small forward he was tha completecomplimentry player on both ends of the floor athletic,great scorer,incrediable defender and he could handle the rock like a point and pass what are u talkinbout man?
Yes injurys took away the latter years of Pennys career but I think we got to see the best of him in the 90s he was never the same in Phoenix or New Yorkmostly because of his knee and it was hard to watch but Ive got great memorys of the 90s Penny.
Peace
Scottie
xtapolapacetl
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^ hold up hold up hold up.....
Gary payton is overrated????
lets start off slow: your comparing Gary Payton's passing ability to John Stockton's. As if that was payton's niche.
Okay lets get to scoring.... just because payton scored in a manner that was not typical of the average point guard, that does not make him a bad scorer. Homiedo some research before you get at me wtih ridiculous statements like Tim Hardaway was a better scorer than payton... payton had 5 straight years of 20 plus atone point and dropped 25.8 one season now NEITHER of your scoring point guards accomplished this feat. Yah they scored in a flashier style but they werentnecessarily better scorers and ill argue this to the death. yah kj crowned dudes threw down and hardaway crossed guys up, but guess what payton backed guysdown and scored all the same. PLUS KJ WAS A TURNOVER MACHINE!!!! dont mention those cats int he same breath as payton.
now lets compare them defensively cuz taht is half the game...... Actually wait oh noo??? KJ has never made an all defensive team, and neither has hardaway.Lets look at some of GP's overrated numbers.
HOW IN GODS NAME CAN YOU SAY A GUY WHO HAS BEEN NAMED 9 TIMES ,YES 9 ALL DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM MENTIONS IS OVERATED? ARE YOU CRAZY??? of course he was the bestdefensive point guard ever. not even close. get outta here ... you dont even come up wtih any numbers or justifications just "payton is overrated"
9 ALL NBA NOMINATIONS INCLUDING 3 FIRST TEAM ALL NBA.
your out of your damn mind im wasting my time arguing with you
Your compare payton to stockton, who is one of the best players of alltime, and top 3 best point guard of all time. Thats not what were saying here. We'rejust saying payton is not overrated!
Gary payton is overrated????
lets start off slow: your comparing Gary Payton's passing ability to John Stockton's. As if that was payton's niche.
Okay lets get to scoring.... just because payton scored in a manner that was not typical of the average point guard, that does not make him a bad scorer. Homiedo some research before you get at me wtih ridiculous statements like Tim Hardaway was a better scorer than payton... payton had 5 straight years of 20 plus atone point and dropped 25.8 one season now NEITHER of your scoring point guards accomplished this feat. Yah they scored in a flashier style but they werentnecessarily better scorers and ill argue this to the death. yah kj crowned dudes threw down and hardaway crossed guys up, but guess what payton backed guysdown and scored all the same. PLUS KJ WAS A TURNOVER MACHINE!!!! dont mention those cats int he same breath as payton.
now lets compare them defensively cuz taht is half the game...... Actually wait oh noo??? KJ has never made an all defensive team, and neither has hardaway.Lets look at some of GP's overrated numbers.
HOW IN GODS NAME CAN YOU SAY A GUY WHO HAS BEEN NAMED 9 TIMES ,YES 9 ALL DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM MENTIONS IS OVERATED? ARE YOU CRAZY??? of course he was the bestdefensive point guard ever. not even close. get outta here ... you dont even come up wtih any numbers or justifications just "payton is overrated"
9 ALL NBA NOMINATIONS INCLUDING 3 FIRST TEAM ALL NBA.
your out of your damn mind im wasting my time arguing with you
Your compare payton to stockton, who is one of the best players of alltime, and top 3 best point guard of all time. Thats not what were saying here. We'rejust saying payton is not overrated!
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Cmon man.
LeBron in game 5 vs DET.
27-7-7
ASG MVP
Ska, he takes care of his business on the court. THAT is clear.
His game helps his marketability, not the other way around.
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GP is definitely not overrated. If anything, he's underrated. He was the best defensive point guard ever. And he wasn't too shabby on theoffensive end
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The hype overrated Lebron to a legendary level when he's done one thing I guess you could consider legendary, game 5 last year. His current stats also areconsidered legendary.
As far as Penny, the hype he gets makes it seem overrated but he had a style and game that was very innovated.
Notice after Penny you seen the 6'7'' or taller ball handlers that can play point and not just score? Magic was more of a point but Penny couldscore also. Jordan could score but PROBABLY couldn't have ran point all the time.
Penny changed the game for the next generations. That is why I believe many current players and fans love him no matter how his career finished and regardlessof his tendacies. Word to Cat/Franchise connection.
As far as Penny, the hype he gets makes it seem overrated but he had a style and game that was very innovated.
Notice after Penny you seen the 6'7'' or taller ball handlers that can play point and not just score? Magic was more of a point but Penny couldscore also. Jordan could score but PROBABLY couldn't have ran point all the time.
Penny changed the game for the next generations. That is why I believe many current players and fans love him no matter how his career finished and regardlessof his tendacies. Word to Cat/Franchise connection.
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xtapolapacetl
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Anyway, his highest scoring season, including his career-high of 24.2 ppg came after 1999-00 where a series of offense-friendly rules were introduced and allthese stars had their scoring averages increase SIGNIFICANTLY from 98-99 to 99-00:
Iverson
Shaq
Duncan
Webber
Hill
Kobe
Garnett
Marbury
Carter
and Payton
So his offensive numbers post 1999-00 don't make me think that he was a better scorer than KJ or Timmy, no.
He was a great defender, but the biggest "steal" of his career came in 1996, where he robbed Pippen of his DPOY. People have been using his defenseto overrate him for years. But his defense wasn't really better than that of early 00s Jason Kidd.
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If you count 5 playoff games as a season, then I guess you're correct.
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its his opinion but to me penny was my fav player growing up and still is a fav in my eyes for what he did in his career.
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I ddint read the thread, but this has to be one of the worst discussion S/T has ever had. Penny being overrated? C'mon bro did you sleep throught the mid'90's?
You think the love for Kobe is crazy on here? if this was 1995 Penny wouldve been talked about as the second comming.
You think the love for Kobe is crazy on here? if this was 1995 Penny wouldve been talked about as the second comming.
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^^ my mistake about hte ppg it was really 24.2 i was looking at playoffs but Xtapolapacetl in relation to the mistake about the ALL NBA FIRST TEAM'S hesmade it was hard to figure it out because of all these accomplishments... take a look:
1990-91 NBA All-Rookie (2nd)
1993-94 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1993-94 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1994-95 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1994-95 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1995-96 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1995-96 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1996-97 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1996-97 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1997-98 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1997-98 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1998-99 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1998-99 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1999-00 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-Defense (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2001-02 NBA All-Defense (1st)
2001-02 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1990-91 NBA All-Rookie (2nd)
1993-94 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1993-94 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1994-95 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1994-95 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1995-96 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1995-96 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1996-97 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1996-97 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1997-98 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1997-98 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1998-99 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1998-99 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1999-00 NBA All-Defense (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-Defense (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2001-02 NBA All-Defense (1st)
2001-02 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
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How people comparing a Portland Scottie to an early to mid 90s Pippen? That is just stupid.
GP overrated? There is NO way that he was any more overrated than Penny.
GP overrated? There is NO way that he was any more overrated than Penny.
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^^ Again, reading is fundamental.
