Osama Bin Laden is dead

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

I know about Northwood, and I know that it wasn't carried out. It's good to know that this plan was seen as too ridiculous and dangerous at a time where things could easily be hidden from people due to lack of communication technology. To think that the government would do something similar in a time where information is at everyones fingertips should tell you that it's highly unlikely. 
As of this month, there are almost 6,000 dead due to both operations. Nowhere NEAR 100,000. However if you want to factor in Iraqi and Afghani civilian deaths that's a completely different story.

You're right, it was used as a pretext for a lot of war and "regime change." But that doesn't mean that we had a hand in it. Is it possible that the government knew something big was going to happen and had details? Yes, they actually admit this. However they say that they didn't have specific dates, times, or events. They could have ramped up security at that point but chose not to. It could have very well been another Pearl Harbor situation, but to say Bush and the American government was behind it is just a bit much. It also is no secret that NeoCons wanted to get rid of Saddam years before 9/11, this was simply the most convenient way to do it. 

The reason I don't think any of this is a giant conspiracy? Bin Ladens grievances with United States foreign policy, in all honesty, make sense. He was against the support we gave Israel in occupying Palestinian land. He was against the United States building military bases in Saudi Arabia which is home to the two holy cities. He was against our, what he saw as, meddling in the region on the whole and saw it as nothing more than a continuation of Western imperialism that had only ended in the region 50 years beforehand. It was still fresh in the minds of many people, which is one way he gained a following, and the other way was using religion and religious imagery (such as speaking Qur'anic Arabic and living in caves/living the life of an ascetic) to get the younger population, as well as using propaganda. 

I knew 100k was wrong, hence the question mark and telling someone to correct me. I was looking at number of wounded.

I just think the fact they planned Northwood shows their capacity in intentionally wanting to kill citizens to pursue their political and military goals. 

This is how I see it if 9/11 is an inside job. To carry out an operation of that stature with such precision and success, terrorist cell based from the mountaneous regions and caves in Afghanistan to be behind it could not pull it off as well. 9/11 would have been calculated and planned for awhile. If not decades, then a couple of years. Of course, a lot of people hate the U.S. and its government, but to pull off the attacks of the scale of 9/11 would have taken a very very powerful force that a terrorist cell like Al-Qaeda would not be able to pull off to such extent, IMO.

This is what I think...The "War on Terror" is bogus.After all, the U.S. needed to fight a new war, and in the post Cold War era, islamic fundamentalism seemed like a good candidate to place as the enemy.After the fall of the Soviet Union and communism, they needed to prop up a new nemesis. Powerful empires need wars.These governments believe that wars secure states. Afterall, who armed these islamic fundamentalists?The U.S.A. With the amount of power they possess, they can use it for their means of imperialist intentions in the Middle East to pursue their goals. This new "era" began with the First Gulf War where the U.S. wanted to show its new strength as the sole superpower and hegemony. 9/11 and the War on Terror is a continuation of it.They prop up these wars for economic, political and military goals to gain their means and this was possible through 9/11. That is what ensures the U.S. to maintaining being a hegemony (the main superpower of the world) and getting what they want out of it all. 

Why is it that only a couple of months after 9/11, instead on concentrating on Osama, Bush went in on Saddam? It seems like their main intent was not even on finding and killing Osama. If after 9/11, they did not go in on Iraq like that with a bunch of lies and linking to 9/11, then I would think a bit differently.



  

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

I know about Northwood, and I know that it wasn't carried out. It's good to know that this plan was seen as too ridiculous and dangerous at a time where things could easily be hidden from people due to lack of communication technology. To think that the government would do something similar in a time where information is at everyones fingertips should tell you that it's highly unlikely. 
As of this month, there are almost 6,000 dead due to both operations. Nowhere NEAR 100,000. However if you want to factor in Iraqi and Afghani civilian deaths that's a completely different story.

You're right, it was used as a pretext for a lot of war and "regime change." But that doesn't mean that we had a hand in it. Is it possible that the government knew something big was going to happen and had details? Yes, they actually admit this. However they say that they didn't have specific dates, times, or events. They could have ramped up security at that point but chose not to. It could have very well been another Pearl Harbor situation, but to say Bush and the American government was behind it is just a bit much. It also is no secret that NeoCons wanted to get rid of Saddam years before 9/11, this was simply the most convenient way to do it. 

The reason I don't think any of this is a giant conspiracy? Bin Ladens grievances with United States foreign policy, in all honesty, make sense. He was against the support we gave Israel in occupying Palestinian land. He was against the United States building military bases in Saudi Arabia which is home to the two holy cities. He was against our, what he saw as, meddling in the region on the whole and saw it as nothing more than a continuation of Western imperialism that had only ended in the region 50 years beforehand. It was still fresh in the minds of many people, which is one way he gained a following, and the other way was using religion and religious imagery (such as speaking Qur'anic Arabic and living in caves/living the life of an ascetic) to get the younger population, as well as using propaganda. 

I knew 100k was wrong, hence the question mark and telling someone to correct me. I was looking at number of wounded.

I just think the fact they planned Northwood shows their capacity in intentionally wanting to kill citizens to pursue their political and military goals. 

This is how I see it if 9/11 is an inside job. To carry out an operation of that stature with such precision and success, terrorist cell based from the mountaneous regions and caves in Afghanistan to be behind it could not pull it off as well. 9/11 would have been calculated and planned for awhile. If not decades, then a couple of years. Of course, a lot of people hate the U.S. and its government, but to pull off the attacks of the scale of 9/11 would have taken a very very powerful force that a terrorist cell like Al-Qaeda would not be able to pull off to such extent, IMO.

This is what I think...The "War on Terror" is bogus.After all, the U.S. needed to fight a new war, and in the post Cold War era, islamic fundamentalism seemed like a good candidate to place as the enemy.After the fall of the Soviet Union and communism, they needed to prop up a new nemesis. Powerful empires need wars.These governments believe that wars secure states. Afterall, who armed these islamic fundamentalists?The U.S.A. With the amount of power they possess, they can use it for their means of imperialist intentions in the Middle East to pursue their goals. This new "era" began with the First Gulf War where the U.S. wanted to show its new strength as the sole superpower and hegemony. 9/11 and the War on Terror is a continuation of it.They prop up these wars for economic, political and military goals to gain their means and this was possible through 9/11. That is what ensures the U.S. to maintaining being a hegemony (the main superpower of the world) and getting what they want out of it all. 

Why is it that only a couple of months after 9/11, instead on concentrating on Osama, Bush went in on Saddam? It seems like their main intent was not even on finding and killing Osama. If after 9/11, they did not go in on Iraq like that with a bunch of lies and linking to 9/11, then I would think a bit differently.



  

 

[bkmac]

Not sure if this was posted already but 

.


President Bush Reacts to Osama Bin Laden's Death with Will Ferrell from Will Ferrell

 

[bkmac]

Not sure if this was posted already but 

.


President Bush Reacts to Osama Bin Laden's Death with Will Ferrell from Will Ferrell

 

[hybridsoldier23]

White House just came out and said they WILL NOT be releasing the photos. 

 

[hybridsoldier23]

White House just came out and said they WILL NOT be releasing the photos. 

 

[tkthafm]

Obama has decided NOT to release the photos.

What a pansy coward.

 

[tkthafm]

Obama has decided NOT to release the photos.

What a pansy coward.

 

[39478]

Weak sauce

 

[39478]

Weak sauce

 

[iheartboost]

The conspiracy theorist are OUT in full force the last 5 or so pages,

 

[fraij da 5 11]

They'll be "leaked" in due time.

 

[iheartboost]

The conspiracy theorist are OUT in full force the last 5 or so pages,

 

[fraij da 5 11]

They'll be "leaked" in due time.

 

[zapatito007]

Originally Posted by BigUglyAmerican

zapatito007 wrote:

---

Originally Posted by BigUglyAmerican



How does that figure even sound reasonable though?

100k dead?

Like are you serious>?

Also, spare us the melodramatics. If it wasnt america doing it there would be another country in its place.

Sometimes i wonder how some NT'ers can come off as sheltered as they do.

there would be another country in its place"?  lmaoo like are u serious??
  

Yes i am.

I hate to burst your utopian bubble. This country is not in the authoratative position it is because of bleeding hearts such as yourself.

America has done some very dirty things to get where it is now.

I'm guessing youre in your teens so i dont expect you to grasp what im telling you.

  
funny how u quote just that part,, ,, my point is just you say" if its not us its another country "so who care,, this is how u just justify it??? soo we can do what ever we want because
if its not us its someone else. lets just do !%@*,,  and i do grasp your machiavellian way of thinking "oh lets conquer n take over its the only way to progress ' no matter the cause is collateral damage  whatever  .but dont wonder why ? when we get attack or something happens over here ,dont be that dude wondering why?

 

[extraordinary swag]

 

[zapatito007]

Originally Posted by BigUglyAmerican

zapatito007 wrote:

---

Originally Posted by BigUglyAmerican



How does that figure even sound reasonable though?

100k dead?

Like are you serious>?

Also, spare us the melodramatics. If it wasnt america doing it there would be another country in its place.

Sometimes i wonder how some NT'ers can come off as sheltered as they do.

there would be another country in its place"?  lmaoo like are u serious??
  

Yes i am.

I hate to burst your utopian bubble. This country is not in the authoratative position it is because of bleeding hearts such as yourself.

America has done some very dirty things to get where it is now.

I'm guessing youre in your teens so i dont expect you to grasp what im telling you.

  
funny how u quote just that part,, ,, my point is just you say" if its not us its another country "so who care,, this is how u just justify it??? soo we can do what ever we want because
if its not us its someone else. lets just do !%@*,,  and i do grasp your machiavellian way of thinking "oh lets conquer n take over its the only way to progress ' no matter the cause is collateral damage  whatever  .but dont wonder why ? when we get attack or something happens over here ,dont be that dude wondering why?

 

[extraordinary swag]

 

[o fenomeno]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Obama has decided NOT to release the photos.

What a pansy coward.

i'd say authorizing and overseeing the killing of osama is way less pansy than leaving the pictures of his mutilated corpse in your desk drawer. 
i'm not too worried that they won't release some kind of proof, though.

on the other hand, obama is probably content to let everyone forget about the economy and argue about this topic that should not even be an important discussion (see: birth certificate)

 

[o fenomeno]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Obama has decided NOT to release the photos.

What a pansy coward.

i'd say authorizing and overseeing the killing of osama is way less pansy than leaving the pictures of his mutilated corpse in your desk drawer. 
i'm not too worried that they won't release some kind of proof, though.

on the other hand, obama is probably content to let everyone forget about the economy and argue about this topic that should not even be an important discussion (see: birth certificate)

 

[kingramey]

In my opinion, the "conspiracy theorists" come off as the thinkers in this thread. Even though some of the stuff may be a little crazy 

Some of you other guys seem to be the "followers" and come off a tad bit naive i.e. "Obama said it so it must be true

" "My government would NEVER lie to me! 

"
I'm not going to eat every word spewed out of someone's mouth just because it's that person. Nor am I a conspiracy theorist.

With that said, I'll just be over here making observations 

"Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see"

 

[kingramey]

In my opinion, the "conspiracy theorists" come off as the thinkers in this thread. Even though some of the stuff may be a little crazy 

Some of you other guys seem to be the "followers" and come off a tad bit naive i.e. "Obama said it so it must be true

" "My government would NEVER lie to me! 

"
I'm not going to eat every word spewed out of someone's mouth just because it's that person. Nor am I a conspiracy theorist.

With that said, I'll just be over here making observations 

"Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see"

 

[callhimar]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

I know about Northwood, and I know that it wasn't carried out. It's good to know that this plan was seen as too ridiculous and dangerous at a time where things could easily be hidden from people due to lack of communication technology. To think that the government would do something similar in a time where information is at everyones fingertips should tell you that it's highly unlikely. 
As of this month, there are almost 6,000 dead due to both operations. Nowhere NEAR 100,000. However if you want to factor in Iraqi and Afghani civilian deaths that's a completely different story.

You're right, it was used as a pretext for a lot of war and "regime change." But that doesn't mean that we had a hand in it. Is it possible that the government knew something big was going to happen and had details? Yes, they actually admit this. However they say that they didn't have specific dates, times, or events. They could have ramped up security at that point but chose not to. It could have very well been another Pearl Harbor situation, but to say Bush and the American government was behind it is just a bit much. It also is no secret that NeoCons wanted to get rid of Saddam years before 9/11, this was simply the most convenient way to do it. 

The reason I don't think any of this is a giant conspiracy? Bin Ladens grievances with United States foreign policy, in all honesty, make sense. He was against the support we gave Israel in occupying Palestinian land. He was against the United States building military bases in Saudi Arabia which is home to the two holy cities. He was against our, what he saw as, meddling in the region on the whole and saw it as nothing more than a continuation of Western imperialism that had only ended in the region 50 years beforehand. It was still fresh in the minds of many people, which is one way he gained a following, and the other way was using religion and religious imagery (such as speaking Qur'anic Arabic and living in caves/living the life of an ascetic) to get the younger population, as well as using propaganda. 

I knew 100k was wrong, hence the question mark and telling someone to correct me. I was looking at number of wounded.

I just think the fact they planned Northwood shows their capacity in intentionally wanting to kill citizens to pursue their political and military goals. 

This is how I see it if 9/11 is an inside job. To carry out an operation of that stature with such precision and success, terrorist cell based from the mountaneous regions and caves in Afghanistan to be behind it could not pull it off as well. 9/11 would have been calculated and planned for awhile. If not decades, then a couple of years. Of course, a lot of people hate the U.S. and its government, but to pull off the attacks of the scale of 9/11 would have taken a very very powerful force that a terrorist cell like Al-Qaeda would not be able to pull off to such extent, IMO.

This is what I think...The "War on Terror" is bogus.After all, the U.S. needed to fight a new war, and in the post Cold War era, islamic fundamentalism seemed like a good candidate to place as the enemy.After the fall of the Soviet Union and communism, they needed to prop up a new nemesis. Powerful empires need wars.These governments believe that wars secure states. Afterall, who armed these islamic fundamentalists?The U.S.A. With the amount of power they possess, they can use it for their means of imperialist intentions in the Middle East to pursue their goals. This new "era" began with the First Gulf War where the U.S. wanted to show its new strength as the sole superpower and hegemony. 9/11 and the War on Terror is a continuation of it.They prop up these wars for economic, political and military goals to gain their means and this was possible through 9/11. That is what ensures the U.S. to maintaining being a hegemony (the main superpower of the world) and getting what they want out of it all. 

Why is it that only a couple of months after 9/11, instead on concentrating on Osama, Bush went in on Saddam? It seems like their main intent was not even on finding and killing Osama. If after 9/11, they did not go in on Iraq like that with a bunch of lies and linking to 9/11, then I would think a bit differently.



  

But it was calculated and planned for a while. I'm sure KSM didn't wake up on September 1st and say "I've got it!" and run to Bin Laden with the idea. The hijackers had been training at flight schools in the late 90s. Security at this time was nowhere near the level that it is today. It was incredibly lax. Also, they weren't simply sitting in caves. They were planning this at a time when they were shuttling people to Afghanistan to train with them. They were very well funded, protected, and equipped.
The United States had unrivaled hegemonic power at the time. It can be argued that on top of many other things, spending on war led to the downfall of our hegemony, because it can be argued we are no longer in such a position. 

They went into Iraq so quickly because the NeoCons had wanted to remove Saddam since they stopped at Kuwait in the early 90s. They realized they had made a monumental mistake and felt they needed to remove him from power, so they tried desperately to link 9/11 to Saddam. This doesn't mean that we were responsible for any of it though, it just means the NeoCons used 9/11 as a pretext for regime change in Iraq and played many people like pawns. 

 

[callhimar]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

I know about Northwood, and I know that it wasn't carried out. It's good to know that this plan was seen as too ridiculous and dangerous at a time where things could easily be hidden from people due to lack of communication technology. To think that the government would do something similar in a time where information is at everyones fingertips should tell you that it's highly unlikely. 
As of this month, there are almost 6,000 dead due to both operations. Nowhere NEAR 100,000. However if you want to factor in Iraqi and Afghani civilian deaths that's a completely different story.

You're right, it was used as a pretext for a lot of war and "regime change." But that doesn't mean that we had a hand in it. Is it possible that the government knew something big was going to happen and had details? Yes, they actually admit this. However they say that they didn't have specific dates, times, or events. They could have ramped up security at that point but chose not to. It could have very well been another Pearl Harbor situation, but to say Bush and the American government was behind it is just a bit much. It also is no secret that NeoCons wanted to get rid of Saddam years before 9/11, this was simply the most convenient way to do it. 

The reason I don't think any of this is a giant conspiracy? Bin Ladens grievances with United States foreign policy, in all honesty, make sense. He was against the support we gave Israel in occupying Palestinian land. He was against the United States building military bases in Saudi Arabia which is home to the two holy cities. He was against our, what he saw as, meddling in the region on the whole and saw it as nothing more than a continuation of Western imperialism that had only ended in the region 50 years beforehand. It was still fresh in the minds of many people, which is one way he gained a following, and the other way was using religion and religious imagery (such as speaking Qur'anic Arabic and living in caves/living the life of an ascetic) to get the younger population, as well as using propaganda. 

I knew 100k was wrong, hence the question mark and telling someone to correct me. I was looking at number of wounded.

I just think the fact they planned Northwood shows their capacity in intentionally wanting to kill citizens to pursue their political and military goals. 

This is how I see it if 9/11 is an inside job. To carry out an operation of that stature with such precision and success, terrorist cell based from the mountaneous regions and caves in Afghanistan to be behind it could not pull it off as well. 9/11 would have been calculated and planned for awhile. If not decades, then a couple of years. Of course, a lot of people hate the U.S. and its government, but to pull off the attacks of the scale of 9/11 would have taken a very very powerful force that a terrorist cell like Al-Qaeda would not be able to pull off to such extent, IMO.

This is what I think...The "War on Terror" is bogus.After all, the U.S. needed to fight a new war, and in the post Cold War era, islamic fundamentalism seemed like a good candidate to place as the enemy.After the fall of the Soviet Union and communism, they needed to prop up a new nemesis. Powerful empires need wars.These governments believe that wars secure states. Afterall, who armed these islamic fundamentalists?The U.S.A. With the amount of power they possess, they can use it for their means of imperialist intentions in the Middle East to pursue their goals. This new "era" began with the First Gulf War where the U.S. wanted to show its new strength as the sole superpower and hegemony. 9/11 and the War on Terror is a continuation of it.They prop up these wars for economic, political and military goals to gain their means and this was possible through 9/11. That is what ensures the U.S. to maintaining being a hegemony (the main superpower of the world) and getting what they want out of it all. 

Why is it that only a couple of months after 9/11, instead on concentrating on Osama, Bush went in on Saddam? It seems like their main intent was not even on finding and killing Osama. If after 9/11, they did not go in on Iraq like that with a bunch of lies and linking to 9/11, then I would think a bit differently.



  

But it was calculated and planned for a while. I'm sure KSM didn't wake up on September 1st and say "I've got it!" and run to Bin Laden with the idea. The hijackers had been training at flight schools in the late 90s. Security at this time was nowhere near the level that it is today. It was incredibly lax. Also, they weren't simply sitting in caves. They were planning this at a time when they were shuttling people to Afghanistan to train with them. They were very well funded, protected, and equipped.
The United States had unrivaled hegemonic power at the time. It can be argued that on top of many other things, spending on war led to the downfall of our hegemony, because it can be argued we are no longer in such a position. 

They went into Iraq so quickly because the NeoCons had wanted to remove Saddam since they stopped at Kuwait in the early 90s. They realized they had made a monumental mistake and felt they needed to remove him from power, so they tried desperately to link 9/11 to Saddam. This doesn't mean that we were responsible for any of it though, it just means the NeoCons used 9/11 as a pretext for regime change in Iraq and played many people like pawns. 

 

[biguglyamerican]

Swell, JUST swell.