Official Warriors Off Season Thread

[enlightened thought]

but when we sent J-Rich away, seemed like we were definitely missing more than a scorer.
yup, we lost a winner.

we need to find a way to get back that competitive edge (that is definitely missing Jax).

 

[acidicality]

Originally Posted by Luong1209

Haha damn, beat me to it.
That commercial was pretty funny.

But damn, I wouldnt trade Baron Davis at all.
He's been such an important factor for our team on AND off court.

I like our team chemistry from 06/07 as well as 07/08,
but when we sent J-Rich away, seemed like we were definitely missing more than a scorer.
Losing Baron would only lose even more team chemistry possibly causing us to crumble and make us back at where we started.

I say we keep Baron, it's just my opinion.

EDIT: I would ALSO hate seeing Don Nelson leave; he's done wonders for this team. Sure he might not have played our rookies
as often as we'd like, but he did get us to the playoffs. Firing him is like biting the hand that's been feeding you.

Baron definitely is the heart and soul of our team...but...if there's a chance to improve the team for the longer haul or even a better shot tocontend short-term, it definitely needs to be considered. but definitely, we shouldn't trade him just to trade him. he probably won't opt out, and cuzi believe it's his contract year next year, he should be extremely motivated to play his best ball and stay healthy. correct me if i'm wrong about itbeing his contract yr

and regarding nellie, i'm very indifferent about whether he stays or leaves. when the smallball is really clicking, it's just incredible to watch andwe can blow any team right out of the building....but when it's not, i hope he puts his ego in check and realizes sometimes smallball won't work. but,he's not changing that at all.

 

[luong1209]

^Totally agree.
Use the roster we have and build as we go along.
He needs to realize we can't play with a rotation of 6 players with exclusion of 2 players playing 3min or so.

You listen to Sjax, Baron and others say how Nellie is "the best coach" they've had.
It's probably not just saying that for the sake of saying it, most likely because it's true.
I just hope Nellie will allow talent to shine when it can this coming 08/09 year.

I think it'd be wonderful to see our young squad develop into an amazing team in the near future with the help ofBD.
He's truly one of the best PGs in the league right now (not to mention healthy ending the season playing 82 games)who
could teach the youngsters a thing or two. He's also an explosive player who brings energy to teammates and thecrowd.

With that said, hope good things happen for us during the off-season so we could prepare for the upcoming year.

Let's go Golden State Warriors!

 

[daprescription]

I just think it's best for the team if Nelson leaves now. The Warriors players are young and we are going to need a new coach in '09 anyways. 2 moreweeks til Warriors win the lottery

.

 

[enlightened thought]

^with the warriors already picking up nelson's option, no way in hell i see Nelson walking away from 5.1 mil.

 

[paul is on tilt]

Stupid option

.

 

[mjdalegend]

[h2]What if… the Warriors hadn't traded Jason Richardson last summer? (Follow the $$)[/h2]
By Tim Kawakami
Monday, May 5th, 2008 at 10:41 pm in A's, NBA, Warriors.

Thank you to my wise and creative brother, who recently prodded me into this line of thinking:

-What would've happened this season if the Warriors hadn't traded Jason Richardson to Charlotte last summer?

I love this sort of conversation, if it's done realistically-Move A affects Move B and C and so on, so you can't just willy-nilly fly off the handle and presume anything you like. It has to be methodical or it's useless (and most of it is useless, anyway).

You have to think it through. I must make clear that I fully supported the Richardson trade to Charlotte for the No. 8 pick Brandan Wright and a $10M trade exception, which expires a few days after this year's draft.

I'll get into the would-they-have-made-the-playoffs-this-year deep hoops analysis a little lower, because I know that's the pressing immediate question.

But there's a larger issue. Let's follow the logic: If the Warriors hadn't traded J-Rich on draft night last year…

* Don Nelson would have moved Richardson to small forward to make room for Monta Ellis-Nelson said as much during a few interviews recently;

* Stephen Jackson would have moved from small forward to power forward in the starting line-up;

* Al Harrington would have been the odd man out, which he sort of was this season, anyway;

* Mullin might've wavered a bit before taking G Marco Belinelli at No. 18 on draft night-probably would've strongly considered PG Javaris Crittenton, who went next to the Lakers.

But since Richardson was moving to small forward, I think Mullin still would've taken Belinelli, since he and Nelson loved Belinelli and could see playing Belinelli alongside either Ellis or Richardson at the two wing spots.

* There would've been no young power forward on the roster-since Wright was part of the Richardson deal; there would be a lot less chance of a trade because the Warriors also would have no TE;

* The Warriors would still have Richardson's $12.2M salary for next season, $13.3M salary for 2009-2010 and $14.4M salary for 2010-2011 on the books.

* Counting Baron Davis' $17.8M for next season, the Warriors with Richardson would have about $78.1M tied up with 12 active players on the 2008-2009 payroll.

That's already WAY over the projected $68M or so luxury tax threshold for next season. That's very, very bad.

And I don't think they would've made the playoffs this season with J-Rich, anyway.

That ugly $78.1M figure includes the necessary 300% cap hold for restricted free agent Andris Biedrins-up to $7.8M, not far off from what he's expected to make next season.

Also includes a $2.4M cap hold for unrestricted F/A Patrick O'Bryant, a $3.9M cap hold on UFA Matt Barnes, $800k separate cap holds on RFA Ellis and UFA Kelenna Azubuike, and a $7M cap hold on UFA Mickael Pietrus…

The last four (except Ellis) can be easily renounced and removed, but then you lose your shot at sign-and-trade deals. If the GSWs renounce POB and Pietrus (quite likely), that's a $9.4M cap-hold savings… down to a $69M commitment.

But you get nothing in return for those two and you still have to replace them on your roster, which adds salary no matter what.

The reduced $69M figure also includes the $5.85M or so remaining on the buy-out of Adonal Foyle's deal-which counts on the cap next season, period…

But BIG PROBLEM: It does not include a probable $6M or $7M raise in 2008-2009 for restricted F/A Monta Ellis or the $1.5M or so projected for the upcoming 14th pick overall;

Add in a moderate new Ellis deal and the draft pick, and the Warriors' commitment goes somewhere near $76M for 11 players. Renounce all you want, but the Warriors would still over the luxury tax-and bleeding talent thanks to the renouncing.

-Big conclusion: If the Warriors still had Richardson, they would be looking at a mini-New York Knicks-level problem.

They wouldn't be good enough with what they have, and the only way they could get better, or even maintain what they have, would be to keep spending more and more money.

(By the way, I'm assuming Baron isn't opting out of the $17.8M for next season. If he does, the Warriors could renounce him to remove the money from their cap-hold… if they kept him on the cap in order to maintain sign-and-trade possibilites or bargain for a new contact, the cap-hold goes up to $24.6M.

(If he opts-out and they renounce him, the GSWs couldn't sign-and-trade him and he loses his Bird Rights totally, I believe. He could only re-sign with the Warriors for the mid-level exception. I repeat: He almost certainly won't opt-out.)

Being the mini-New Yorks Knicks or pseudo-Denver Nuggets? That's very bad.

There's almost no way I could see the Warriors heading deep into the luxury tax with this roster (for 40 to 44 victories, max? That wouldn't be worth it to even complain about ownership), so I don't know how they'd re-sign Monta Ellis this summer if Richardson was still around.

And I know they'd want to keep Biedrins, because they'd have NO OTHER DEPENDABLE BIG MAN (I don't count Kosta Perovic) and too many non-defensive wings for the forseeable future…

But giving Biedrins a $45M to $55M deal would be tough, also, because it'd kick the Warriors deep into the luxury tax.

--Repeat conclusion: Without Richardson's money on the books, the Warriors, counting all the cap holds, have about $65M committed to 13 active players.

Say they renounce Pietrus, Barnes and POB after June-that drops it to $51.7M.

Give Ellis a raise that starts at $6.5M next season and that pumps the commitment up to $57.4M-and that figure already presumes a 300% raise for Biedrins, by salary-cap rule.

Why is $57.4M a good number? Because it's about $10M short of the expected luxury tax figure… and the Warriors happen to have, geepers, a $10M trade exception and the room to use it.

That's very, very good.

OK, sorry to bog you down with all those numbers. I've probably made a math error or two in there and skipped over some internal cap logic, so please let me know my boo-boos ASAP. I know you will.

Just thought it was important to spell out the financial math of the J-Rich deal before I got into the hoops. Went too far, as usual, but I've got a lot of room to babble cyberspace, so I use it.


Now to the hoops…

Would the Warriors have been a better team, maybe a playoff team, if they hadn't traded very good player Jason Richardson for Brandan Wright, who did not play much?

I think the Warriors would've been better to start the season if they had Richardson, because they were already without Jackson when he was suspended for the first seven games.

They were spinning their wheels with only Pietrus and Azubuike for a long time when it was clear that Belinelli wasn't ready. And he wasn't.

So maybe Richardson helps them win 1 or 2 more games in that 0-6 start. Yes, I agree to that.

But I think, over the course of the season, the Warriors probably would've ended up worse with J-Rich this season, not better. Probably not 48-34… maybe 46 wins…

I agree, they sure could've used positive, strong minutes out of a wing player when Pietrus and Barnes frittered out. It would've given Nellie more inclination to rest Baron, SJax and Monta. It would've obviously eased the scoring burden.

But not enough-and it would've cost the Warriors just as much or more on the defensive side.

Nelson was going to play Ellis-nothing was stopping that, and nothing should've, especially not Richardson. JR was going to play small forward, if he played anywhere, and he would've played a lot with Pietrus tanking early.

Baron, Monta, J-Rich, SJax, Biedrins/Harrington… is that a good defensive team? No, it's worse than the one they fielded this season, which was mostly Baron, Monta, SJax, Harrington/Barnes/Pietrus, Biedrins.

Think of it this way: SJax guarded a lot of the tough perimeter players this season. It worked fairly well. So who does J-Rich guard? With the J-Rich line-up, Richardson might've ended up guarding the power forward a lot this year. Ugh.

To be fair, the Warriors were a worse defensive team with Ellis getting all the starts at the shooting guard this year than they were last year, when Richardson got many of them (he was hurt for 32 games, remember).

They gave up 106.9 pts a game last year, gave up 108.8 pts this year, and opponents shot 46.2% last year vs. 46.8% this year. But again, Ellis played more than J-Rich did last year due to the injuries.

Defense: Push or edge to No J-Rich.

What was the real difference between having J-Rich and not having him this season? It got Ellis the ball more, and he took advantage, and the Warriors prospered offensively.

Ellis averaged 3.5 more minutes, 2.1 more shot attempts, 1.9 more makes (that's an incredible surge of makes, by the way) and 3.7 more points (from 16.5 to 20.2).

Ellis increased his shooting percentage from 47.5% to an amazing 53.1% and was a plus/minus +221… and his +.072 per minute out-performed the team's +.03 per minute average.

The Warriors as a team upped their scoring average from 106.5 last year to 111.0 this year, even though their FG% went down (from 46.3% to 45.95%, which obviously isn't Ellis' fault in any way-taking his numbers out of the equation, the non-Ellis Warriors shot 44.5% this season).

Were they hurt rebounding? Richardson is a provably excellent wing rebounder. But actually, the Warriors, though poor, were a better rebounding team this year (-311 total) than they were last year (-411).

I realize that the pro-J-Rich people are going to say I'm being unfair, comparing last year's stats, when J-Rich was hurt and out of sorts.

No problem. Let's look at this year's stats with J-Rich in Charlotte:

-He played over 38 minutes per game, shot 44.1% from the field, averaged 21.8 points, 5.4 rebounds and 3.2 assists-all around his career average.

-He was a plus/minus -229… and his per/minute figure was worse than the Charlotte team as a whole.

-Charlotte was 33-49 in 2006-2007. Charlotte was 32-50 this season.

-The Warriors were 42-40 in 2006-2007. They were 48-34 this season.

J-Rich didn't make much of a difference in Charlotte, that I can tell. And he's 27. And he's not a power forward.

You might not love Brandan Wright and I know Nellie still is unconvinced. But he can play the big forwards and he's still only 20. Ellis is 22.

The Warriors last year were about as good as they would've been with Richardson-or they were better, it's a coin flip. I know where I stand on that one.

I know they'll be better next season because of Wright and because of the room the trade gave to Ellis.

And now they have an extra $10M to spend under the lux-tax, with the vehicle to use it. If they had kept Richardson, they'd be sweating $11M+ over the lux-tax, with no TE, no young power forward, and little realistic hope to re-sign Ellis and Biedrins.

Pretty easy conclusion for me.

Wow that took a lot of typing. Now I'm not too thrilled with my brother-too darn good of an idea.

 

[mjdalegend]

[h1][/h1]

[h1]Foyle not happy in Orlando[/h1]
WIRE REPORT

Article Launched: 05/02/2008 12:59:32 PM PDT


Former Warrior Adonal Foyle, now a seldom-used backup center with the Orlando Magic, told the Orlando Sentinel that he won't decide until the offseason whether he'll opt to become a free agent or not.
Foyle, who accepted a buyout from the Warriors, signed with Orlando for the veteran's minimum of $1.8 million with the hopes of seeing regular playing time as Dwight Howard's backup. However, he averaged just 9.4 minutes per game during the regular season, while playing all 82 games. Foyle averaged just 1.9 points and 2.5 rebounds during the regular season.

"You have to take it personally," Foyle told the Orlando Sentinel. "You have to be mad about it or you should stop playing the game. I understand the situation, but if you are a competitor, you're mad."

Foyle played in just two of Orlando's five games against Toronto in the first round of the NBA playoffs, seemingly losing his backup center role to rookie Marcin Gortat.

Come back to the Bay Adonal, you know you miss us.

 

[daprescription]

Warriors would have been better. No doubt about it. Having Baron/ Ellis/ Richardson/ Jackson/Biedrins is better than any line we had this year. BUT, the salarycap would have been to crazy. He is crazy if he thinks we wouldn't have been better.

 

[paul is on tilt]

^ Damn MJDaLegend, that was one long article

. I read it, then got lazy and then skimmed over some of themiddle parts, and then read the end. Yeah, we probably would have still played Ellis at the 2 and moved J-Rich to the 3, but still it's a smarter move forus in the long run financially. Like the article said, we wouldn't want a New York Knick level problem on our hands

.

 

[paul is on tilt]

Originally Posted by MJDaLegend

[h1][/h1]

[h1]Foyle not happy in Orlando[/h1]
WIRE REPORT

Article Launched: 05/02/2008 12:59:32 PM PDT


Former Warrior Adonal Foyle, now a seldom-used backup center with the Orlando Magic, told the Orlando Sentinel that he won't decide until the offseason whether he'll opt to become a free agent or not.
Foyle, who accepted a buyout from the Warriors, signed with Orlando for the veteran's minimum of $1.8 million with the hopes of seeing regular playing time as Dwight Howard's backup. However, he averaged just 9.4 minutes per game during the regular season, while playing all 82 games. Foyle averaged just 1.9 points and 2.5 rebounds during the regular season.

"You have to take it personally," Foyle told the Orlando Sentinel. "You have to be mad about it or you should stop playing the game. I understand the situation, but if you are a competitor, you're mad."

Foyle played in just two of Orlando's five games against Toronto in the first round of the NBA playoffs, seemingly losing his backup center role to rookie Marcin Gortat.

Come back to the Bay Adonal, you know you miss us.

Oh man, the Bay Area would go crazy if that happened

.

 

[acidicality]

Originally Posted by MJDaLegend

[h1][/h1]

[h1]Foyle not happy in Orlando[/h1]
WIRE REPORT

Article Launched: 05/02/2008 12:59:32 PM PDT


Former Warrior Adonal Foyle, now a seldom-used backup center with the Orlando Magic, told the Orlando Sentinel that he won't decide until the offseason whether he'll opt to become a free agent or not.
Foyle, who accepted a buyout from the Warriors, signed with Orlando for the veteran's minimum of $1.8 million with the hopes of seeing regular playing time as Dwight Howard's backup. However, he averaged just 9.4 minutes per game during the regular season, while playing all 82 games. Foyle averaged just 1.9 points and 2.5 rebounds during the regular season.

"You have to take it personally," Foyle told the Orlando Sentinel. "You have to be mad about it or you should stop playing the game. I understand the situation, but if you are a competitor, you're mad."

Foyle played in just two of Orlando's five games against Toronto in the first round of the NBA playoffs, seemingly losing his backup center role to rookie Marcin Gortat.

Come back to the Bay Adonal, you know you miss us.

yeah, we can definitely use a nice "traditional center"

.and i guess someone to challenge POB as the best cook

and we would have been better........partially becuz Richardson isn't a rook; but yeah, overall we would have been better...but, we woulddefinitely NOT be better in the next couple years. so it's still a good trade financially and it's really a no-brainer.

 

[daprescription]

I would kill myself if the Warriors signed Foyle again. Actually no, I will get banned if the Warriors sign Foyle again.

 

[hoopervilaa]

id probably do that trade if its top 3...beasley or rose!!!

It makes a lot of sense to me if its that high of a pick.

 

[sohi 23]

Originally Posted by daprescription

I would kill myself if the Warriors signed Foyle again. Actually no, I will get banned if the Warriors sign Foyle again.

Print Screen FTW

 

[daprescription]

I'm dead serious.

 

[mjdalegend]

[h2]Unhappy with the Warriors' low-ball offer? OK, Baron, then just opt-out[/h2]
By Tim Kawakami
Saturday, May 10th, 2008 at 8:53 am in NBA, Warriors.

It makes all the sense in the world for Baron Davis' agent, Todd Ramasar, to be publicly displeased with the state of negotiations (thanks GLepper) between his client and the Warriors.

(He should just opt-out then.)

I know Todd well, I know he has a job to do, I know that around the league, there are normal agent's parameters: Either get ridiculous money or complain when it doesn't happen.

None of this shocking. Baron has an opt-out clause this summer, and he wants the Warriors to pay him anywhere from $50M to $70M to-Do I hear $90M?-long term in order to keep him.

The Warriors are staring at Davis' potential $17.8M salary for next season (if he doesn't opt-out) and presumably thinking that's already an over-payment for BD's services, based on his fizzle late this season.

So any potential extension has to figure in the $6M or $7M overpayment for next season.

(Maybe the Warriors wouldn't mind if Baron opted-out.)

For example, the Warriors could be offering a two-year extension at $8M and $8.2M through 2010-2011. Add that to the $17.8M and that's $34M over three years, when Baron will be turning 30, 31 and 32.

I'm sure BD is asking for more than that. Much more than that and for many more years than that-I'm guessing he's in the ballpark of 4 years (after next season) at $14M, $14M, $15M and $15M. Just an educated guess. Might be on the low side.

(Time to opt-out if you want more, BD.)

Add that estimated $58M to the non-opt-out $17.8M and that's five years, $75.8M over five years, at the end of which, Baron will be turning 34. Uh, no thank you, if I'm the GM or accountant or Sane Person with the Warriors.

The Warriors aren't doing that. Ramasar knows it and BD knows it. The Warriors know BD won't take any extension that will have him earning a salary of less than $10M.

So there's a problem.

And there's one big possible resolution: BARON CAN OPT-OUT and become a free agent on July 1.

If the Warriors are being silly terrible low-ballers who won't meet Baron's obvious market value, then there ought to be a line of teams ready to throw $70M or $80M at Baron.

If that's true, there ought to be 10 or 12 franchises dying to pay Baron Davis.

There are only a few under-the-cap teams with the ability to sign BD to a big free-agent deal outright… but if he's so valuable, then one of those teams will get him (as Washington did with Gilbert Arenas many moons ago) or other teams will manuever like crazy to give them the ability to get him.

If Baron truly is more valuable than the Warriors' guess combined offer of $34M over three years (counting the $17.8M)… then the market will determine it.

If Baron wants to test it. If Ramasar allows it. If they think anybody out there really will pay it…

Of course, if Baron opts-out and the money isn't there, then he's not in a very good spot. So we may be hearing more from Todd up until June 30, and then he may have to go silent.

I'm not afraid of Baron opting out with the market out there. Baron (or his agent) just trying to put pressure on Mullin by opening his mouth to themedia. Mullin shouldn't be shook.

 

[acidicality]

Baron isn't walking away from 17.8 million

, he'd be foolish to do that....unless...some team out there is letting him know they're willing todrop a lot of cash on him.

to me odds are 95% that he sticks around, 5% that he gets traded/opts out.

 

[livemyreality]

Originally Posted by Paul Is On Tilt

Originally Posted by MJDaLegend

[h1][/h1]

[h1]Foyle not happy in Orlando[/h1]
WIRE REPORT

Article Launched: 05/02/2008 12:59:32 PM PDT


Former Warrior Adonal Foyle, now a seldom-used backup center with the Orlando Magic, told the Orlando Sentinel that he won't decide until the offseason whether he'll opt to become a free agent or not.
Foyle, who accepted a buyout from the Warriors, signed with Orlando for the veteran's minimum of $1.8 million with the hopes of seeing regular playing time as Dwight Howard's backup. However, he averaged just 9.4 minutes per game during the regular season, while playing all 82 games. Foyle averaged just 1.9 points and 2.5 rebounds during the regular season.

"You have to take it personally," Foyle told the Orlando Sentinel. "You have to be mad about it or you should stop playing the game. I understand the situation, but if you are a competitor, you're mad."

Foyle played in just two of Orlando's five games against Toronto in the first round of the NBA playoffs, seemingly losing his backup center role to rookie Marcin Gortat.

Come back to the Bay Adonal, you know you miss us.

Oh man, the Bay Area would go crazy if that happened

.


No I would be happy if he came back to Oakland. THE rebounder the team needs.

 

[paul is on tilt]

^

LiveMyReality and Adonal is almost to the level of cheezybabyand J-Rich...


J/k, I kid, I kid

.

 

[mjdalegend]

[h1]Kawakami: Warriors should be proactive about coach[/h1]
By Tim Kawakami
Mercury News Sports Columnist

Article Launched: 05/12/2008 01:33:24 AM PDT

Short-attention-span reading and writing, and bonus cut-and-pasting from my Talking Points blog . . .

The Warriors don't need to worry about watching prime future candidates Mike D'Antoni and Rick Carlisle sign long-term deals with other franchises because the Warriors already have a coach.

Er, don't they? OK, nobody's 100 percent sure about that one.

The Warriors have Don Nelson under contract for next season, and yet he hasn't told the Warriors that he will return and hasn't set a definitive timetable for making a decision.

Which makes Nelson a lame-duck coach starting . . . a few weeks ago.

If Nelson returns for the $5.1 million next season, the Warriors certainly would have to treat it as his last - with the resulting loss of clout in the locker room - and Chris Mullin would have to start looking for their next coach. (Of course, Mullin has only one year left on his own contract.)

If Nelson decides to retire this summer, the Warriors will have to find a new coach immediately, and the pickings will be dangerously slim.

• The Warriors should be proactive like the Knicks and Mavericks, not tentative and sulky like Chicago (which wanted D'Antoni but lost him) and Phoenix (which let D'Antoni walk).

Maybe Mullin and team president Robert Rowell are sold on assistant Keith Smart, Nelson's hand-picked heir. But if Smart were a lock, wouldn't the Warriors have said that by now?

• Mullin
needs to draw up a short list in case Nelson doesn't come back next season, and Mullin needs to keep it handy even if Nelson does come back.


If I had to draw up a list, knowing Mullin, it might go something like this: Mark Jackson (like Mullin, a St. John's star), Mario Elie, Avery Johnson, Jeff Van Gundy and Smart. And I'd keep an eye on these already-employed candidates who might be interested in a change of scenery by midseason: Detroit's Flip Saunders, Washington's Eddie Jordan and, my favorite dark horse, Dallas President Donnie Nelson (if things turn sour with Mark Cuban).

• Another reason the Warriors won't and shouldn't give Baron Davis a big contract extension: Monta Ellis is going to get something close to $10 million a year, and no sane NBA team pays more than $25 million per season for two short guards.

So, do you invest in Ellis at 22? Or Davis at 29? Easy choice.

 

[cheezybaby]

Banned.

 

[ady2glude707]

Suspended

 

[dr 715]

Originally Posted by cheezybaby

I dont like this Kawasaki cat....%$!%##$ asians shouldnt get an opinion on basketball

dumb $## asian...worse really??

I'm just going to quote this because he'll probably edit in a second or two ...

 

[livemyreality]

Originally Posted by Paul Is On Tilt

^

LiveMyReality and Adonal is almost to the level of cheezybaby and J-Rich...


J/k, I kid, I kid

.

Now hold on. I'm just a fan of Adonal because I've met him personally and he's a great person.

That's it! Cheezybaby is on a level on his own.

And for the record Tim Kawakami is a very credible source regarding Warriors news.