***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[IATT]

They really just need any puppets to prop up

 

[IATT]

 

[AEA18]

 

[AEA18]

 

[PatRiley]

pretty sad to see Bernie, AOC, etc. defending Evo. A dictator who used corruption to control the govt, rewrite the constitution multiple times to run for not just one extra term, but two extra terms. Then in that second illegal term, rig the election and commit massive fraud. When the people of Bolivia mass protest and fought against this corruption and were eventually successful. Socialists around the world that don’t like to see any example of their system (no matter how corrupt) failing then DEFEND a corrupt dictator that kept his mouth shut for 70 days when millions of acres of the Amazon rainforest were burning so that he could grow more coca (for illegal drugs) and promote more cattle farming to export to China. Shame on anyone who calls this a coup. You’re showing your ignorance in Latin American politics and culture.

 

[IATT]

So...it is?

Bulk orders don’t negate a book being a #1 best seller.

is New York Times “fake news” or not?

 

[sonoftony]

this is nothing honestly

 

[Belgium]

this is nothing honestly

Basically just an exchange of pleasantries. I think the only thing worth noting is that Zelensky really seemed to look forward to Trump or Pence's presence at his inauguration. According to Lev Parnas' new lawyer, he threatened a top Ukrainian official (Serhiy Shefir) the next month that they had to investigate Biden or US aid to Ukraine would be frozen and Mike Pence would not attend the inauguration. Those two things did happen so the question is if Parnas made this up due to being upset that Trump's insisted he didn't know him, given that his credibility isn't exactly stellar.
Parnas could simply be looking at what took place and then claim he threatened those things in advance at the direction of Giuliani, who in turn operates at the direction of the president.

The key may be in the statement from the Ukrainian official who attended the meeting in May with Fruman and Parnas.
Unlike Parnas, Fruman is still being represented by John Dowd. Trump signed off on Dowd's hiring by both Parnas and Fruman despite insisting he didn't know either of them. Parnas fired Dowd after growing increasingly upset about Trump distancing himself. Fruman confirmed the meeting but denies what Parnas said. Giuliani denies Parnas' claims about this meeting as well.

Here's what the Serhiy Shefir told the NYT in a statement. Note how he denies military aid was brought up but he doesn't address broader aid in general or deny that Parnas and Fruman demanded a Biden investigation and said Mike Pence would not attend the inauguration if Ukraine failed to comply.

 

[sonoftony]

Devin "the Cow" Nunes just read it out like it solved the problem

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Jesus Christ.

 

[sonoftony]

House Impeachment hearing going on RN

 

[m-90]

Day 2

 

[Belgium]

Another question is if the WH is trying to pull the same stunt here that they did with the previous reconstructed memo for the July 25 call.
Vindman testified that the WH knowingly left out details from that call in the released memo. Vindman testified that he alerted officials that some passages were missing and tried to convince them to add the missing details. He did not succeed.

 

[gry60]

dictator who used corruption to control the govt, rewrite the constitution multiple times to run for not just one extra term, but two extra terms.

I can't stand with this either. It sounds exactly like how the president of my country of origin has been able to stay in power for 37 years. Nobody should stand for such a disregard of their constitutional laws, regardless of their political convictions.

 

[Belgium]

There already appears to be a key discrepancy between the new reconstructed memo and the WH's official readout at the time. Either the WH was lying at the time or they're lying now. In the case of the latter, one potential reason to scrub that from the memo is that witnesses have painted a pattern of Trump's lackeys using descriptions like "rooting out corruption" or "investigations" as euphemisms to specifically refer to probing Burisma/Biden and the 2016 election.

This April 22 (day after call) AP article states that the readout said "Trump expressed his commitment with Zelensky to implement reforms that strengthen democracy, increase prosperity and root out corruption."
The newly released memo does not mention anything like that. I have not been able to find an official WH record of the readout but the same is found in several April 22 articles.
https://apnews.com/4c6705b025ac4289b6ba3b19f8f93271

Edit:

 

[Mister Meaner]

Putting a face and story behind all these names is helpful af.

 

[Belgium]

For those watching the impeachment hearings, keep in mind that there has been a lot of reporting by the AP and others that Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman sought a major gas deal with the Ukrainian company Naftogaz. Multiple witnesses have told the press about Parnas and Fruman's advances regarding the Naftogaz board.
During that time, Parnas also reportedly boasted that he was being bankrolled by Dmitry Firtash, an upper echelon affiliate of the Russian mob who is currently facing foreign bribery charges in the US and battling extradition.

Dmitry Firtash was reportedly set to be involved in this Naftogaz deal where Parnas and Fruman were reportedly supposed to get several Naftogaz boardmembers replaced with individuals of their choice. Firtash would make millions and would receive even greater control over Ukraine's gas industry. A leaked diplomatic cable states that Firtash admitted that "the real power" behind his gas empire was notorious Russian mob figure Semion Mogilevich.

Parnas and Fruman reportedly viewed Ambassador Yovanovitch as an obstacle to their plan for a lucrative gas deal.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/tr...d-giuliani-pals-gas-deals-biden-dirt-n1067516

https://apnews.com/edd54b7c56f04d158f7addb69d157cc0

 

[whywesteppin]

Devin "the Cow" Nunes just read it out like it solved the problem

Dims tried to get dirty with the impeachment inquiry but Donald Trump has ripped their helmet off and is now beating them over the head with it. This is glorious!

 

[mr s j king]

During Wednesdays testimony Republican U.S. Representative Jim Jordan said corruption was how Ukraine did business
He then made fun of President Obama for only giving Ukraine MRE and blankets
He then gave props to Trump for giving Ukraine missiles
But wouldn't giving missiles to a corrupt nation that you cant trust be a bad move?

 

[gry60]

Schiff with the clap back in real time

 

[heelsandeers]

Devin "the Cow" Nunes just read it out like it solved the problem

Nunes makes plenty of bad-faith arguments but he is so deep into the conspiracy theories I think he may actually believe most of the garbage he's spewing

before this is over I'm expecting him to explore some QAnon angles with his 45 minutes

 

[deuce king]

Dims tried to get dirty with the impeachment inquiry but Donald Trump has ripped their helmet off and is now beating them over the head with it. This is glorious!

LOL. Your more up to date with current affairs then Joe Budden on the mic back in the day.

 

[Mister Meaner]

Glad they moved away from Quid Pro Quo to Bribery. And now add Witness Intimidation.

Keep adding these charges.

 

[AEA18]

Schiff with the clap back in real time

That was perfect. Use the clown's twitter fingers against him.

 

[AEA18]