***Official Political Discussion Thread***

^ DENIAL.

The majority of us are true red-blooded 'Mericans who believe in the rule of law, protecting our borders, keeping our assault rifles, and being able to say "Merry Christmas" in public. This thread has just become an echo chamber as of late (since 2001) so our voices are often drowned out.

TRUMP was investigated for years, found nothing but nudes of MELANIE

Barr is a BEST Ag in history, the guy wanted to end the investigation before he was the Ag. AMAZING how as soon as he is elected investigation ends.

HILLARY was anything but exonerated.

Muellers last page was trump NO COLLUSION
FIXED

As for Joe Biden, I have but 3 words:

LOCK HIM UP.
 
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https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/03/roger-stone-obstruction-1301631
Prosecutors: No need to prove Russian conspiracy to charge Stone with obstruction
Federal prosecutors argued Friday that special counsel Robert Mueller did not need to prove conspiracy between the Russian government and the Trump campaign to show that longtime Trump ally Roger Stone obstructed Congress' investigation of the matter.

"To establish the defendant’s guilt of the crimes with which he is charged, the government is not required to prove the existence of a conspiracy with the Russian government to interfere in the U.S. presidential election," Mueller’s team, along with the U.S. attorney in Washington D.C., wrote in response to filings Stone submitted on March 28.

That argument has been the subject of controversy in recent weeks, following Attorney General Bill Barr's suggestion that evidence collected by Mueller implicating President Donald Trump for multiple efforts to thwart his probe fell short, in part because Mueller didn't establish the existence of a criminal conspiracy.

"The evidence now suggests that the accusations against him were false and he knew they were false," Barr told the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday, underscoring that the president's actions to counter the probe may have been justified by his frustration that he had been falsely linked to claims his campaign conspired with the Russian government. “That is not a corrupt motive for replacing an independent counsel,” he said.
Democrats and some legal experts have sharply disputed Barr's argument, suggesting that Trump’s actions to undermine the probe could have prevented the discovery of evidence of a conspiracy or that he may have been attempting to conceal the discovery of other related crimes -- such as allegations that he directed the payment of hush money to two women who accused him of extramarital affairs, evidence of which emerged from Mueller's investigation. Several of Trump's closest allies, including Stone, were also charged with crimes in Mueller's investigation.

But Barr argued that without proof of a conspiracy -- the foundation of Mueller's probe -- Trump's conduct must be viewed through a different lens, especially because as president, he had the inherent authority to fire Mueller and even, in Barr's view, shutter any investigation he deems unfair and detrimental to his ability to govern.

Stone had pointed to these arguments to undercut Mueller's prosecution against him, but prosecutors in the case said the arguments were both irrelevant -- because they related only to the president -- and misinterpreted.

"The indictment alleges, and the evidence admitted at trial will show, that after the 2016 U.S. presidential election, the [House and Senate Intelligence Committees], and the Federal Bureau of Investigation all opened or announced investigations into Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election," prosecutors wrote. "The defendant acted corruptly to obstruct those investigations. And the defendant’s actions were capable of influencing the investigations. That is all the law requires."

The argument by the U.S. attorney and Mueller's team essentially contradicts a recent claim made by Trump's personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, on Thursday. "An obstruction case where there is no proof of an underlying crime is questionable. If you add to it nothing actually obstructed, there’s no case," Giuliani tweeted.

The series of briefs posted Friday evening were filed by U.S. Attorney for Washington D.C. Jessie Liu, along with two attorneys who have worked with Mueller's team, Adam Jed and Aaron Zelinsky. They responded to Stone's multiple efforts to have his indictment dismissed, to demand access to Mueller's full report, to claim he was being selectively prosecuted and to argue that Mueller's appointment and funding sources were improper.

In support of his argument to dismiss the case against him, Stone pointed to a 19-page memo Barr wrote and forwarded to Justice Department leaders when he was outside of government. Barr argued at the time for a sharply narrowed definition of obstruction crimes when related to the president. But Mueller's team said Stone misrepresented Barr's memo.

"The memorandum does not argue that every obstruction statute should be interpreted to require proof of the crime that gave rise to the investigation that was obstructed," they wrote.

Prosecutors also argued against Stone's effort to transfer his case from his current judge, Amy Berman Jackson, who presided over the guilty plea and sentencing of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort. Berman Jackson is also overseeing the pending case against a dozen Russian hackers charged by Mueller -- and Stone's case was referred to her because prosecutors considered it related.

Stone has argued that his case is not related, particularly since Mueller's team never charged any Americans with conspiring as part of the hacking operation. But prosecutors said this argument, too, was flawed because the hacking case arose from "common search warrants" such as those that helped indict Stone.

Therefore, they wrote, Stone's charge "are a part of the same alleged criminal event or transaction, which is the applicable legal standard."

Stone separately argued that Mueller's investigation was invalid and should be dismissed because it was part of a broader probe that targeted Trump. His attorneys argued that it's inherently wrong to divide the Executive Branch against itself by requiring the Justice Department to investigate, essentially, its boss.

Prosecutors similarly argued that Stone was mistaken because "the investigation was not specific to the president" and the indictment itself related to Stone's conduct, not Trump's. However, prosecutors went further to emphasize that there is authority to investigate the president, citing the investigation of Richard Nixon.

"Merely investigating a president, his campaign, or others who worked with them raises no such difficulties -- particularly where the investigator remains accountable to the attorney general," they wrote.

"If Article II prevented any investigation of a President or his campaign while he was in office, the government could not preserve evidence while memories are fresh and documentary materials are available. Nor, it would seem, could the government conduct an investigation that may clear the President of alleged wrongdoing," the prosecutors added.

Stone was charged in January with obstructing the House Intelligence Committee' investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election, launched in early 2017, just after Trump took office. He was also charged with making five false statements to the committee and one count of witness tampering.

The charges related to his testimony about efforts to contact WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange. Stone foreshadowed in the summer of 2016 that Wikileaks appeared to have a cache of information that would harm then Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton and appeared to have some insight on the timing of its release. He has since denied having any advanced knowledge. Assange was recently indicted on an unrelated cybercrime charge and is fighting extradition to the United States in London.

Stone has pleaded not guilty to the charges against him. The flamboyant political operative has been under a gag order in recent months.
 
SMH YIKES:

aocboy.jpeg



Based Jesus Based Jesus is NOT dapper.

Look at her body language too. AOC Bae is slumped over, shoulders and arms drawn inward. She is afraid of this libbie cretin. Her face pleads, "Help me! Coalservatives, come save me from this libbie hell." If you look carefully at her hands, you will see she is throwing the sign for Coal Gang. :hat



HOLD ON, BAE, WE WILL COME RESCUE YOU.
 
SMH YIKES:

aocboy.jpeg



Based Jesus Based Jesus is NOT dapper.

Look at her body language too. AOC Bae is slumped over, shoulders and arms drawn inward. She is afraid of this libbie cretin. Her face pleads, "Help me! Coalservatives, come save me from this libbie hell." If you look carefully at her hands, you will see she is throwing the sign for Coal Gang. :pimp:



HOLD ON, BAE, WE WILL COME RESCUE YOU.

Fun fact those two are a composite image of every dude and every girl who attend DSA meeting. :rofl::rofl::smh:
 
that should be the new catchphrase for total ******** like the “conservative thinker” on NT who said that mountains actually were the remnants of gigantic, ancient trees.
 
Something that also struck me as odd in Barr's testimony was that he claimed complete ignorance of a rather blatant instance of so-called collusion, which again isn't necessarily criminal in nature.

At some point in the hearing, Barr was asked about the polling data transfers. The Senator pointed out that if the campaign's private polling data from their pollster Tony Fabrizio had been shared with a Super-PAC, that would have been illegal. Barr expressed complete ignorance that any polling data was shared, and again appeared to have no clue with who it was shared.

Barr responded "what was shared?"
The Senator then tried to remind him that the Trump campaign's private polling data was shared.
Barr then pleaded ignorance once more and replied "with who?"
At that point the Senator moved on to a different line of questioning though.

Unless he had his head stuck in the sand and didn't pay attention to the investigation in the last 6 months or so, it seems odd that the guy running the investigation would appear utterly clueless about such a key detail. Not to mention the report elaborated on the polling data sharing.

The report states that Manafort and Rick Gates transfered Trump campaign polling data over a span of several months to Konstantin Kilimnik.
The report and previous court filings state that Manafort, Gates and Alex Van Der Zwaan (via Gates) knew that Kilimnik was a former GRU officer.
Additionally, the report states the FBI assessed that Kilimnik had active Russian intelligence ties throughout 2016. Kilimnik got fired from the Moscow office of the International Republican Institute specifically because his "his links to Russian intelligence were too strong" according to the report. Rick Gates also suspected he was still a spy.

Throughout 2016, Kilimnik served as a liaison for Oleg Deripaska. The latter has literally said there is no separation between him and the Russian state, and Deripaska maintains close ties to Russian intelligence and the upper echelons of the Kremlin. In August 2016 he was spotted alongside Yevgeni Prigozhin, who was indicted by Mueller as part of the Internet Research Agency case. Also in 2016, Deripaska was recorded on a private yacht having a discussion with the Russian Deputy PM.

While the report did not say whether or not such briefings took place, Manafort emailed Kilimnik and offered to provide private briefings on the Trump campaign's progress to Deripaska if he required them. The two also discussed leveraging Manafort's position on the campaign to repay Manafort's debt to Deripaska.

In Manafort's hearing about his plea agreement violations, prosecutors stated the polling data was in fact highly detailed. The report confirmed it was private polling data from Trump campaign pollster Tony Fabrizio. That polling data was then transfered to Kilimnik over the span of a few months. Manafort denied instructing Gates to do so but judge Amy Jackson ruled that Manafort violated his plea agreement by, amongst other things, lying about the polling data.
The sharing continued after Manafort had left the campaign but Gates said that by then he was sending mostly public data.

The report and previous court filings state that Gates understood Kilimnik was going to give the polling data to Oleg Deripaska and 2 Ukrainian oligarchs.
Deripaska isn't "officially" Russian intelligence, but clearly there is hardly any separation. As mentioned earlier, Deripaska has openly stated there is no separation between him and the Russian state, and the contacts he had throughout 2016 further emphasized that, especially his meetings with the Russian Deputy PM and Yevgeni Prigozhin.
Deripaska's meeting with Prigozhin took place on August 9 2016, just 7 days after Kilimnik flew to NY for a clandestine meeting with Manafort and Gates at the Grand Havana Club.
Deripaska's jet happened to fly there at the same time of the meeting and left the following data. It appears Kilimnim flew back to Moscow on that jet the next day.



Seems awfully strange Barr would have zero clue whatsoever about any of the above. Clearly whatever the purpose was for the polling data transfers, Manafort felt it was worth sabotaging his own plea deal for by lying to prosecutors about it during his “cooperation.”
 
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SMH YIKES:

aocboy.jpeg



Based Jesus Based Jesus is NOT dapper.

Look at her body language too. AOC Bae is slumped over, shoulders and arms drawn inward. She is afraid of this libbie cretin. Her face pleads, "Help me! Coalservatives, come save me from this libbie hell." If you look carefully at her hands, you will see she is throwing the sign for Coal Gang. :pimp:



HOLD ON, BAE, WE WILL COME RESCUE YOU.
Reported for personal attacks. I have vitiligo :smh:
 
Something that also struck me as odd in Barr's testimony was that he claimed complete ignorance of a rather blatant instance of so-called collusion, which again isn't necessarily criminal in nature.

At some point in the hearing, Barr was asked about the polling data transfers. The Senator pointed out that if the campaign's private polling data from their pollster Tony Fabrizio had been shared with a Super-PAC, that would have been illegal. Barr expressed complete ignorance that any polling data was shared, and again appeared to have no clue with who it was shared.

Barr responded "what was shared?"
The Senator then tried to remind him that the Trump campaign's private polling data was shared.
Barr then pleaded ignorance once more and replied "with who?"
At that point the Senator moved on to a different line of questioning though.

Unless he had his head stuck in the sand and didn't pay attention to the investigation in the last 6 months or so, it seems odd that the guy running the investigation would appear utterly clueless about such a key detail. Not to mention the report elaborated on the polling data sharing.

The report states that Manafort and Rick Gates transfered Trump campaign polling data over a span of several months to Konstantin Kilimnik.
The report and previous court filings state that Manafort, Gates and Alex Van Der Zwaan (via Gates) knew that Kilimnik was a former GRU officer.
Additionally, the report states the FBI assessed that Kilimnik had active Russian intelligence ties throughout 2016. Kilimnik got fired from the Moscow office of the International Republican Institute specifically because his "his links to Russian intelligence were too strong" according to the report. Rick Gates also suspected he was still a spy.

Throughout 2016, Kilimnik served as a liaison for Oleg Deripaska. The latter has literally said there is no separation between him and the Russian state, and Deripaska maintains close ties to Russian intelligence and the upper echelons of the Kremlin. In August 2016 he was spotted alongside Yevgeni Prigozhin, who was indicted by Mueller as part of the Internet Research Agency case. Also in 2016, Deripaska was recorded on a private yacht having a discussion with the Russian Deputy PM.

While the report did not say whether or not such briefings took place, Manafort emailed Kilimnik and offered to provide private briefings on the Trump campaign's progress to Deripaska if he required them. The two also discussed leveraging Manafort's position on the campaign to repay Manafort's debt to Deripaska.

In Manafort's hearing about his plea agreement violations, prosecutors stated the polling data was in fact highly detailed. The report confirmed it was private polling data from Trump campaign pollster Tony Fabrizio. That polling data was then transfered to Kilimnik over the span of a few months. Manafort denied instructing Gates to do so but judge Amy Jackson ruled that Manafort violated his plea agreement by, amongst other things, lying about the polling data.
The sharing continued after Manafort had left the campaign but Gates said that by then he was sending mostly public data.

The report and previous court filings state that Gates understood Kilimnik was going to give the polling data to Oleg Deripaska and 2 Ukrainian oligarchs.
Deripaska isn't "officially" Russian intelligence, but clearly there is hardly any separation. As mentioned earlier, Deripaska has openly stated there is no separation between him and the Russian state, and the contacts he had throughout 2016 further emphasized that, especially his meetings with the Russian Deputy PM and Yevgeni Prigozhin.
Deripaska's meeting with Prigozhin took place on August 9 2016, just 7 days after Kilimnik flew to NY for a clandestine meeting with Manafort and Gates at the Grand Havana Club.
Deripaska's jet happened to fly there at the same time of the meeting and left the following data. It appears Kilimnim flew back to Moscow on that jet the next day.



Seems awfully strange Barr would have zero clue whatsoever about any of the above. Clearly whatever the purpose was for the polling data transfers, Manafort felt it was worth sabotaging his own plea deal for by lying to prosecutors about it during his “cooperation.”
 


Its simple that is collusion. The only thing stopping it from being called that 100% is Kilimnik isn't officially part of the government. However, in all but name that is the Collusion Barr denied. Him giving even a single yes in that exchange would have basically blown his whole "There was no collusion" soundbite out the water.

Also there is a legit chance Trump will try to do the same in 2020. Russia need sto know who to target in order to help and Trump's people cannot transfer that info on the internet and hope it doesn't get intercepted.
 
It's pretty sad that the president is a wannabe dictator and is a ***** for all the actual dictators in the world.
 
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