***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[boris]

This is so poorly written. Is he just jealous that Amazon is a successful business that is worth a lot of money?

 

[EddieDoyers]

USPS does have its budgeting problems, but Trump is way off on why it’s off budget

Hint hint it’s because of Congress

 

[EddieDoyers]

This is so poorly written. Is he just jealous that Amazon is a successful business that is worth a lot of money?

The owner of Amazon owns WaPost....and we know how Trump feels about “fake news”

 

[EddieDoyers]

Anyway hot take time:
Trump is actually a decent problem recognizer in regards to governmental politics, but 99% of the time offers half baked solutions and does on the surface analysis on complex situations.

He would be a lot better if he wasn’t ignorant, but oh well.

 

[everysingletime]

My friend who voted for Trump is upset about deductions being limited to 10k

Lol

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[Nike Jordan]

My friend who voted for Trump is upset about deductions being limited to 10k

Lol

You should've called him a sucker right to his face.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I get you. Job training is definitely necessary for those who aren't as privileged. But on the inside of a city agency (which I admit is very different) the expectation on the local government to use these agencies almost as job training programs has caused a lot more issues than it's helped. My agency has very low standards for hiring for certain positions, and it shows in the service that people get. As it is, the USPS isn't sustainable in it's current state, and I honestly think it's too far gone to restructure and adjust for the future.

But I admit there are tons of differences between the Housing Authority and the Postal Service.

But while I think about it, our budget for training has been cut to nearly zero. And on top of that, there are tons of positions at my job that don't require a degree. If there is a sweeping standard that all USPS employees must have a college degree, that's a huge problem.

It's a great idea, I just don't think our government or the USPS is in any position to do anything other than slowly die.

But like you said, that could have everything to do with the USPS being run as a profit maximizing company. This is clearly where the issues lie and what put the Postal Service in this position behind the 8 ball.

A couple points.

-I think it I need stop conflating my views on the USPS and jobs programs in general. There are many ways to do jobs programs, one way is to give out contracts to private firms for projects, and the firm's will hire people to complete these projects. Another way is for the Government to hire people directly. The USPS is a unique entity in that since it services the nation and the work is not complex so you can use the USPS existing infrastructure to hire more folk to expand the services.

And like I said, let's us view it not as something that needs to make money or be budget neutral. But as a universal service everyone enjoys and has equal access to, even if the cost to service some citizens more than others.

-Now as a more general view on public workers. I understand that your own experiences kinda shape your views. And I agree that public workers and Government agencies are not always the most efficient. But it seems you already peeped one of the issues, the scant training budget, then that has to leads to low hiring standards.

I feel in America there is this view that be well prepared to do a job should fall squarely on the worker. Then add to our ****** public schools, pricing people out of higher education, bad public transportation, and a ton of other things, we get a country that is very hostile to workers, especially unskilled workers. That is turned around and used as an excuse to keep wages low.

If we had a country that made it easy and cheap to acquire general skills on their own, and trained workers to do specific jobs better, then you would see a more productive workforce. But firms low key don't like this because a skilled worker that can move freely and not strapped down with debt will don't be scared to bounced if you treat him/her like crap. Then firms will have less control over folk and would have to share in the prosperity.

Another thing is that many local governments are corrupt and ran like crap. So don't let bad local governance with sour you on being worker friendly.

-Lastly I feel I must touch on this point. Conservatives have really finessed the country when it comes to Government "effiency". There are plenty of very efficient government agencies. When conservatives want something done, they will fund them well. When then want to push the narrative of wasteful efficient Government, they will cut the budget of a department, wait for the problems to develop based on those cuts, then point to those problems as proof that the agency and department should be done away with of get further cuts. Also there are private lobbies that make sure some agencies are underfunded

They do this with the IRS all the time. They do it with the State Department. When they want the War on Drugs to rage on they will fund the DEA. But underfund the ATF because politically they benefit from illegal guns sales. The Dems do some of this too. But not on the level of the GOP. And the Dems don't peddle BS rhetoric on the same level.

-I do believe that if we commit to a well funded government that provides a lot of general services that people have the right to be concern with how the money is being spent. Fraud and waste should be addressed. But when we look to do do, we must get comfortable that there will be some efficiency losses and waste. But let us focus on giving folk some economic security before we start getting rustled by the other stuff.

 

[everysingletime]

What tax reforms can't be changed back if democrats take back the government?

From what I understood, there were some things you can change back and some you can't?

 

[Belgium]

What a ****ing joke.

Moments like these bring some much needed comedy to this exhaustingly horrid presidency.

 

[RustyShackleford]

And how does whoever took this decision expect to get any sort of satisfactory output out of untrained workers?

Why does this country have a problem with understanding the value of investing in human capital??

The real offensive thing to me is that many people expect workers to invest in human capital, but the work must completely pay for it.

Like if people had better schools to as kids, cheap colleges to get degrees, public transportation to get around to training and work, health and childcare to take that stress off them, then maybe firms will have a better pool of applicants to select from.

But nahhh. Imma just put these unnecessary demands on my job posting and hope for the best. Smh

 

[boris]

Anyway hot take time:
Trump is actually a decent problem recognizer in regards to governmental politics, but 99% of the time offers half baked solutions and does on the surface analysis on complex situations.

He would be a lot better if he wasn’t ignorant, but oh well.

I wouldn't give him too much credit. There's a huge difference between identifying problems and actual problem solving. Most people can do the former while few people are good at the latter.

 

[rexanglorum]

I'm not the biggest Amazon sympathizer but Trump touch on something I absolutely hate about how the Post Office is viewed.

THE POST OFFICE SHOULD BOT BE RAN AS A PROFIT MAXIMIZING COMPANY

IT SHOULD BE TREATED AS A UNIVERSAL SERVICE THAT IS ALLOWED TO RUN IN THE RED.

Furthermore it should be used as a jobs program for unskilled workers, and should be transitioned into a low (to no fee) banking option for the public. One that provides low interest, low fee, short term loans for poor folk. Save poor folk from these payday loan finessers.

It’s his voters that will be ****ed if they move this way He really doesn’t understand that it’s in a losing situation because of rural deliveries not urban.

When I saw unskilled what I mean is people that have not had a formal college education or specific job training. But these people can be trained. I have advanced degrees and my workplace will had to train me on how to do some of my job. That happens in many professions. Plus we are not talking about complex work.

I am not attacking you famb but Everyone, especially liberals, especially black people, need to stop acting/believing like a college degree or even previous training needs to act as a entry fee to enter the land of economic security. Screw effiency, the left need to worry and equality.

We can train a ton of folk, to do a ton of jobs, and then most importantly, give them work. If and when we overshoot, then we can then worry about effiency.

Expansion of the federal workforce can give a ton of folk Economic security, and mixed diversity hiring and affirmative actio, a ton of minorities economic prosperity.

At the risk of making this into a da libby echo chamber, yes to all of this.

The funny thing is that you got all these poor, country libertarians and they would be slammed the most if we privatized government services. People in cities can have mail delivery, infrastructure, telecommunication and even social insurance due to economies of scale. Country libertarians an their ancestors have relied upon government largess since the 1930's and in the case of the post office, since the 1790's.

No worries, we won't need USPS when we all working in the coal mines. #MAGA

I mean, I'm white so I get all of my postage taken care of by semi magical birds, ravens and owls mostly. I think that the reason why people of color kiss up tp white supremacy is they hope to get invited to join the Avian delivery club but alas, even the great Ben Barson hasn't been allowed to subscribe rmail (that's raven mail).

I'm still on that KaleMail. I dunno what y'all on.

When I need parcels delivered, I use UPS (United Pelican Service). It's great. I get my bushels of kale delivered same day.

 

[shogun]

Da orange idiot trying to flex on da amazon gawd and gonna lose.

 

[gry60]

I get my mail delivered by a witch flying in a sardine box. Only at night though, so if you get awoken by a noise on your roof, chances are she got drunk again and forgot where I live.

 

[Belgium]

Dapper Don intellectually stunting on da libbies
Far from the only thing he knows better than anyone. And these people still won't give the man credit for his genius

"I know more about renewables than any human being on Earth."
http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/2016/04/13/trump-explains-why-feels-primary-process-is-unfair.html

"I understand social media. I understand the power of Twitter. I understand the power of Facebook maybe better than almost anybody, based on my results, right?"
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/donald-trump-somebody-said-i-842623

"Nobody knows more about debt. I'm like the king. I love debt."
https://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink/2016/06/donald-trump-s-breathtaking-self-admiration

"I think nobody knows more about taxes than I do, maybe in the history of the world. Nobody knows more about taxes."
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-says-his-tax-rate-is-none-of-your-business


"Nobody knows banking better than I do"

"I understand money better than anybody. I understand it far better than Hillary, and I'm way up on the economy when it comes to questions on the economy."
http://www.businessinsider.com/dona...ce-report-2016-6?international=true&r=US&IR=T

On government:
"I think nobody knows the system better than I do."
"I am a person that used to be establishment when I'd give them hundreds of thousands of dollars. But when I decided to run, I became very anti-establishment, because I understand the system than anybody else."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...d-possibly-understand/?utm_term=.1a08aee52e05

"I used to be, George, the fair-haired boy — you know, when I was a contributor. I know moreabout contributions than anybody."
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-donald-trump-ben-carson/story?id=35336008

"Nobody knows politicians better than Donald Trump."



"Nobody knows more about trade than me."
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...in_manhattan_worth_more_than_mitt_romney.html



"Nobody in the history of this country has ever known so much about infrastructure as Donald Trump."
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1607/16/se.02.html

"There's nobody bigger or better at the military than I am."

"I know more about ISIS [the Islamic State militant group] than the generals do. Believe me."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...447428349529&tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.3d4de24cb87b

"So a general gets on, sent obviously by Obama, and he said, 'Mr. Trump doesn't understand. He knows nothing about defense.' I know more about offense and defense than they will ever understand, believe me. Believe me. Than they will ever understand. Than they will ever understand."
https://pjmedia.com/election/2016/07/27/tim-kaine-tries-a-trump-impression-at-dnc/

"There is nobody who understands the horror of nuclear more than me."

"Because nobody knows the system better than me. I know the H1B. I know the H2B. Nobody knows it better than me."
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/politics/republican-debate-transcript-full-text/

 

[rexanglorum]

The real offensive thing to me is that many people expect worker to invest in human capital, but the work must completely pay for it.

Like if people had better schools to as kids, cheap colleges to get degrees, public transportation to get around to training and work, health and childcare to take that stress off them, then maybe firms will have a better pool of applicants to select from.

But nahhh. Imma just put these unnecessary demands on my job posting and hope for the best. Smh

Conservatives: "we should raise the voting age to 35 because young people are stupid"
Also Conservatives: "17-year-olds better be able to successfully bet against the labor market over a 5 to 30 year horizon or else be stuck with a life time of low wages and undischargable student debt."

Big Business: "we can do everything better than government"
Also big Business: "government, please train our workforce for us."

Struggle Libertarians: "Markets always find equilibrium"
Also Struggle Libertarians: "there are millions of unfilled jobs in the sciences and only government can solve this problem"

College kids who post Mike Rowe memes : "Econ explains all social outcomes"
Also College kids who post Mike Rowe memes: "there are millions of six figure jobs in the trades, why aren't those jobs being filled, there must be a complex sociological explanation rather then the fact that most skilled trade jobs don't pay very much."

 

[RustyShackleford]

Conservatives: "we should raise the voting age to 35 because young people are stupid"
Also Conservatives: "17-year-olds better be able to successfully bet against the labor market over a 5 to 30 year horizon or else be stuck with a life time of low wages and undischargable student debt."

Big Business: "we can do everything better than government"
Also big Business: "government, please train our workforce for us."

Big Business are some real scumbags.

If they said: Ok, we are willing to pay more in taxes in order to fund great public schools, cheap college, jobs training programs, and things to make sure the labor force is well educated and trained BUT we are not gonna train them ourselves, and will have higher requirements on out job postings. I would say ok, it will not be the perfect scenario, but that is a reasonable trade.

Or if they said: nah we went lower taxes, we will lower our demands on job postings but invest a ton on training our own workers. I once again would say it is not perfect but I would somewhat understand because they are taking on the risk and cost of training workers.

But instead they double dip. They want low taxes, could not care less how hostile the world is for workers in general, and then they they want to spend little to nothing training their own employees. That somehow, people should have found away to get all the skills they demand on the job positing.

The worst part is many in the general public, even liberals, are somehow sympathetic to their nonsense.

 

[rexanglorum]

Big Business real are some scumbags.

If they said: Ok, we are willing to pay more in taxes in order to fund great public schools, cheap college, jobs training programs, and things to make sure the labor force is well educated and trained BUT we are gonna train them ourselves and will have higher on your job postings. I would say ok, it will not be the perfect scenario but that is a reasonable trade.

Or if they said, nah we went lower taxes, we will lower our demands on job postings but invest a ton on training our own workers. I once again would say it is not perfect but I would somewhat understand because they are taking on the risk and cost of training workers.

But instead they double dip. They want low taxes, could not careless how hostile the world is for workers in general, but then say they want to spend little to nothing training their own employees. That somehow, people should have found away to get all the skills they demand on the job positing.

The worst part is many in the general public, even liberals, are somehow sympathetic to their nonsense.

And since private sector job training started falling out of practice in the late 70's, most workers have no experience with it and think that it is just normal to have topay the full cost in time, money and risk of gaining human capital. And to your last point, I can forgive conservatives because they are heartless but even liberals think it's f---ing normal that you need a master degree to have a middling desk job.

 

[boris]

You see how much control corporations have over people inside these companies. I was recently docked on my review because I refused to do something that was objectively wrong. Most people will just go along with what they're being told what to do because they are afraid of being given bad reviews or fired.

 

[RustyShackleford]

And since private sector job training started falling out of practice in the late 70's, most workers have no experience with it and think that it is just normal to have topay the full cost in time, money and risk of gaining human capital. And to your last point, I can forgive conservatives because they are heartless but even liberals think it's f---ing normal that you need a master degree to have a middling desk job.

Yeah I'm involved in some of the hiring for my place of work and I hear some real dumb elitist **** that comes out the mouths of hiring managers. Many of which I know are hardcore liberals.

I still think all Americans residents should go or have the chance to go away to a university. There are benefits to a college education, and the college experience, that go beyond just getting a golden ticket to the middle class (well now depending on the major )

But don't condemn kids to a lifetime in debt, don't demand they waste unnecessary time at school, and don't demand **** like "Calc 1 through Real Analysis" for them to be "qualified" to work with Excel all day.

 

[plansb]

Repped for the real analysis ref, prob the hardest undergrad course i took. Still have the book on my office bookshelf.

Spoiler

 

[elpablo21]

 

[Belgium]

That NYT Trump interview transcript reads like one big word salad of idiocy as usual. Again this level of cognitive deficiency just looks to me like something more than just regular aging.

 

[EddieDoyers]

SO WHY YOU PASS IT YOU SPINELESS **** RUBIO