***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[rolaholic]

Don't you know by now Rusty? That any and all critique of Israel, however reasonable it might be, isn't allowed and most likely means that you're a raging anti-Semite and deny it's right to exist? 

There's almost no grey area in regards to the discourse on that issue in the states it seems 

 

 

[duba169]

Holding israel to a higher standard than any other country IS anti semetic. Liberals have a bigotry of low expectations when it comes to palestinans. They think that they have no role in their current situation.

When the middle east is on fire, iranians are kidnapping americans, 300,000 muslims were killed by muslims in syria, isis is murdering all types of people. Russia is annexing land, and all liberals wanna talk about israel... then yeah they probably are anti semetic. It's selective outrage. The crisis involving jews is somehow the most important one on the earth to these people and the key to world peace.

Honestly all i hear about is an occupation. What about before 1967? Was there no war? Was there an occupation? The world didn't cry crocodile tears when jordan and egypt held the land. Nobody gave a **** about the supposed palestinans.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Holding israel to a higher standard than any other country IS anti semetic. Liberals have a bigotry of low expectations when it comes to palestinans. They think that they have no role in their current situation.

When the middle east is on fire, iranians are kidnapping americans, 300,000 muslims were killed by muslims in syria, isis is murdering all types of people. Russia is annexing land, and all liberals wanna talk about israel... then yeah they probably are anti semetic. It's selective outrage. The crisis involving jews is somehow the most important one on the earth to these people and the key to world peace.

Honestly all i hear about is an occupation. What about before 1967? Was there no war? Was there an occupation? The world didn't cry crocodile tears when jordan and egypt held the land. Nobody gave a **** about the supposed palestinans.

 

[duba169]

Really good response. Shows you have alot of knowledge about the subject.
Like most liberals.

Who controlled the west bank and gaza before 1967?

Was there an israeli occupation before 1967?

Will cutting aid to israel help the palestinians in any way whatsoever?

If this confict involved palestinanians and another group of islamic people, would the world care 1/10th of the same amount?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Really good response. Shows you have alot of knowledge about the subject.
Like most liberals.

Who controlled the west bank and gaza before 1967?

Was there an israeli occupation before 1967?

Will cutting aid to israel help the palestinians in any way whatsoever?

If you would stop your ranting and raving for a second. I never said that we should cut off aid to the damb country

Neither does our current Dem president, neither doe any of the 3 renaming Dem candidates. When includes the most left wing member of the federal government.

If they take our aid, they should be willing to take our advice, and work towards peace in good faith.

"Being better than ISIS or even Iran" should not be the standard we hold them too. That is my opinion is ridiculous

So miss me with your anti semantic guilt trip bull ****

 

[duba169]

What do you define as the occupation?

Plenty of liberals want to defund israel. One just said it in this thread. Israel offered good faith agreements. Arafat and Abbas will never get better deals.

Maybe part lf the problem is liberals projecting their beliefs and ideas on to people that don't share them? I have no idea why they think a 2 state solution is what most palestinans are fighting for.

So they should be held to higher standards than their neighbors? Why? If mexicans started stabbing random texans i'm sure the US response wouldn't be "disproportionate" sure.

Israel has peace with jordan and egypt. They have shown the willingness to trade for peace. Maybe the world can put some pressure on the other side for a change and see what happens. As opposed to treating the palestinans like children who don't know any better.

All settlements in gaza were destroyed. They disengaged from there. What did they get in return? I mean this is really recent. And people expect them to try again in the west bank?

 

[Chopper]

Change of subject… Does anyone hear think ousting Bashar al-Assad is going to make Syria a safer place? 

Sure he may be a POS, but is he worse than what's likely to come? 

 

[rolaholic]

 
Change of subject… Does anyone hear think ousting Bashar al-Assad is going to make Syria a safer place? 

Sure he may be a POS, but is he worse than what's likely to come? 

A few years ago I probably would've said yes but given the current reality of the situation after 4 years of this quagmire with still no semblance of a solution on the horizon,I say hell no. Syria would become like Iraq post-Saddam without Assad. As bad as things are now with him still in power,it's gonna be an even bigger cluster**** once you get rid of the central authority and end up having all these well armed extremist groups roaming around and taking advantage of a power vacuum 

. We've all seen how well that ends up...

 

[duba169]

Hell no it wouldn't be safer. Iraq and Libya should show us that.

 

[Nike Jordan]

The Iranians never called me ******.

 

[rolaholic]

The Iranians never called me ******.

Or forcibly sterilized immigrants but that's for another thread...

 

[rolaholic]

Anyone seen Anonymous's "#OpKKK"? They're allegedly revealing KKK members and apparently outed 5 sitting members of congress...

 

[Chopper]

Anyone seen Anonymous's "#OpKKK"? They're allegedly revealing KKK members and apparently outed 5 sitting members of congress...

Anonymous 

 Would love to see this brought up at the next debate, although, i highly doubt it would ever happen. 

 

[dathbgboy]

Anyone seen Anonymous's "#OpKKK"? They're allegedly revealing KKK members and apparently outed 5 sitting members of congress...

Anonymous   Would love to see this brought up at the next debate, although, i highly doubt it would ever happen. 

Man, I would love for that too, turn the heat up in this mofo and watch em sweat just for the entertainment alone

 

[flyerthandelta]

Hmmm Politics as Usual...

 

[duba169]

I would love to find out who the 5 are. If true.

Looks like the republicans are trying to really change up the debate process. Curious to see if it happens. They have top many candidates to have a normal debate.

 

[rexanglorum]

I have a few replies to no one in particular, just some observations based on the last few pages.

- Making 400k per year makes you a well off person, there is not going to be a lot of sympathy when your income is about ten times that of the national median. With that said, certain professionals and small business owners (actual small business owners, not multimillionaires who claim to be small business owners) probably do have to shoulder too much of the national tax burden. The reason for this is that people who make millions and even hundreds of millions, pay the same rate as a person who makes 500k (and in most cases the man who makes 100 millions pays less because her made it through capital gains). Upper-middle class folks spend too much time blaming low income people for their high taxes and they ignore the low taxes paid by the super rich.

- Republicans are always talking about the bad old days of the 70% or 90% tax rate. I have relatives who were making a lot of money back in the 1950's and they said that it broke down like this: You could cash out and keep 10 cents on the dollar or you could reinvest the profits, take the myriad deductions and credits and pay 40 cents on the dollar and invest the rest of the money back into the company. You make workers better off and you even make your own heirs richer by doing so. In other words, the nominally high tax rates from the 1950's were not anti-business, they existed to discourage the vulture and casino capitalism that has wrecked our economy in recent years.

- Conservatives need to stop saying that abortion is anti-black. All conservatives and even many liberals say that people should not have kids until they are financially ready to pay for those kids. For reasons related to our history, black people have lower income and fewer assets than their white counter parts (same education level and same age). the fact that black folks get abortions at a higher rate means that they are following Republican family planning advice. Most adults have sex, not all adults can have their mom and dad help to pay for the baby. Conservatives want to ban abortion and contraceptives, conservatives believe that only wealthy people should have kids. Thus we can conclude that conservatives believe that poor folks should commit to lives of celibacy.

- I am genuinely conflicted when it comes to Israel, I side with victims and while Israel has generally been a bully as of late, I cannot forget that it was founded by Holocaust survivors and that much of the World is rabidly anti Jewish. Future American Presidents, of either Party, must, on the one hand, tell Israel that we will always back up its right to exist. On the other hand we must leverage Israel into being much more humane towards its neighbors and we really need to smack back future attempts by any Israeli politician to give a lecture to our Congress.

- I am somewhat skeptical about this KKK outing. There is no doubt that white Supremacy pervades our politics. From city council meetings where middle aged Soccer Moms complain about "thugs" to our current White House (Yes, Obama and Hillary Clinton are, to some degree, white supremacists). However, most political actors, even conservatives southerners, know that one should never join or associate with the KKK. In fact, the KKK is the institutional scapegoat for the white supremacists in politics. The bargain is that so long as one is not wearing white or red or purple sheets and burning crosses, one is not a racist. You can talk all you want about Thugs and lament the lack of work ethic in the inner city, as long as you are not a grand wizard.



As with all things in politics, we shall just have to wait and see.

 

[blco02]

I would love to find out who the 5 are. If true.

It wasn't. Typical left wing smear job.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I would love to find out who the 5 are. If true.

It wasn't. Typical left wing smear job.

It is like you live in your own dream world.

You do know that alleged leak included a couple dems right?

 

[slighted]

I was reading up on Bernie's proposals and was curious what NT fam thinks about that supposed 90% tax rate on the wealthy.

How would that work? What happens if these companies / rich folks dodge this tax rate by just leaving and finding a more friendly environment where they can park capital?

Let's hypothetically say some of these companies are major producers in the US economy. When they leave in an exodus, what happens to the rest of us common folks?

Regardless, I think it's a very interesting time to live in.

 

[jape]

The Iranians never called me ******.

yeah they have... you a damn fool to believe anything otherwise

 

[duba169]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-plane-crash-egypt-explosive-device-uk-government/

Scary **** if true.

 

[dathbgboy]

I was reading up on Bernie's proposals and was curious what NT fam thinks about that supposed 90% tax rate on the wealthy.

How would that work? What happens if these companies / rich folks dodge this tax rate by just leaving and finding a more friendly environment where they can park capital?

Let's hypothetically say some of these companies are major producers in the US economy. When they leave in an exodus, what happens to the rest of us common folks?

Regardless, I think it's a very interesting time to live in.

U mean like they're already doing or have already done? Honestly, there needs to be a fix to the tax codes, not just an increase in the tax rate. The amount of taxes these corporations and wealthy people dodge by buying companies in countries with a more favorable tax rate is crazy. We could literally kill our debt within 5 years if not sooner w/ all of the money that is being paid in taxes.

Also, I don't think these companies will leave the U.S. out of fear of an embargo on their products. We are the largest consumers when it comes to things like iPhones, laptops, Android devices, etc.


I believe that there should be a change to the tax rate that would go into effect within a couple of years, HOWEVER, if businesses bring a certain amount of jobs back to the U.S. above a specific wage rate and promise not to lower the rate nor re-export those jobs again for x amount of years, then the company should be allowed to take advantage of the tax rate once the immediate requirements are met.

 

[rico x hood]

Complaining about the debt huh? Your man Obama is set to double it by the time he leaves thanks to the new budget he just signed. Want to lower debt? Stop borrowing money. I remember candidate Obama's favorite line was "Washington should live like Americans, if you don't have enough money, cut back on your spending."

Hypocrite.

 

[Xennial]

I have a few replies to no one in particular, just some observations based on the last few pages.

- Making 400k per year makes you a well off person, there is not going to be a lot of sympathy when your income is about ten times that of the national median. With that said, certain professionals and small business owners (actual small business owners, not multimillionaires who claim to be small business owners) probably do have to shoulder too much of the national tax burden. The reason for this is that people who make millions and even hundreds of millions, pay the same rate as a person who makes 500k (and in most cases the man who makes 100 millions pays less because her made it through capital gains). Upper-middle class folks spend too much time blaming low income people for their high taxes and they ignore the low taxes paid by the super rich.

- Republicans are always talking about the bad old days of the 70% or 90% tax rate. I have relatives who were making a lot of money back in the 1950's and they said that it broke down like this: You could cash out and keep 10 cents on the dollar or you could reinvest the profits, take the myriad deductions and credits and pay 40 cents on the dollar and invest the rest of the money back into the company. You make workers better off and you even make your own heirs richer by doing so. In other words, the nominally high tax rates from the 1950's were not anti-business, they existed to discourage the vulture and casino capitalism that has wrecked our economy in recent years.

- Conservatives need to stop saying that abortion is anti-black. All conservatives and even many liberals say that people should not have kids until they are financially ready to pay for those kids. For reasons related to our history, black people have lower income and fewer assets than their white counter parts (same education level and same age). the fact that black folks get abortions at a higher rate means that they are following Republican family planning advice. Most adults have sex, not all adults can have their mom and dad help to pay for the baby. Conservatives want to ban abortion and contraceptives, conservatives believe that only wealthy people should have kids. Thus we can conclude that conservatives believe that poor folks should commit to lives of celibacy.

- I am genuinely conflicted when it comes to Israel, I side with victims and while Israel has generally been a bully as of late, I cannot forget that it was founded by Holocaust survivors and that much of the World is rabidly anti Jewish. Future American Presidents, of either Party, must, on the one hand, tell Israel that we will always back up its right to exist. On the other hand we must leverage Israel into being much more humane towards its neighbors and we really need to smack back future attempts by any Israeli politician to give a lecture to our Congress.

- I am somewhat skeptical about this KKK outing. There is no doubt that white Supremacy pervades our politics. From city council meetings where middle aged Soccer Moms complain about "thugs" to our current White House (Yes, Obama and Hillary Clinton are, to some degree, white supremacists). However, most political actors, even conservatives southerners, know that one should never join or associate with the KKK. In fact, the KKK is the institutional scapegoat for the white supremacists in politics. The bargain is that so long as one is not wearing white or red or purple sheets and burning crosses, one is not a racist. You can talk all you want about Thugs and lament the lack of work ethic in the inner city, as long as you are not a grand wizard.



As with all things in politics, we shall just have to wait and see.

$400k only well off and not rich?  I'm sorry but @VaGixxer   said he makes between that and under $1 million which could mean up to $999k a year.  I'm sorry but that's rich, like I said I know a girl that's in that income range too that complains and those people just complain to complain.  Hard to take it more than a grain of salt when she's complaining in a bmw i8 and lives in a condo in beverly hills.  They may not make multiple millions but the type of lifestyle you enjoy at $400k-1mil you shouldn't be complaining.