***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Based Jesus]

Democrats need to follow the example of Nancy "Moderate" Mace if they ever want to get back the valuable canadian vote

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[Methodical Management]

I posted this yesterday in another thread, but it applies here as well:

Those platforms use algorithms to promote engagement, and often do so in ways with destructive consequences.

Controversial content generates more engagement than benign content. Facebook’s algorithm assigned the “angry” emote at five times the weight of the “like” reaction.

What’s going to generate more engagement?

“Killing innocent civilians is bad and it should be stopped.”
“If civilians support terrorism, they should be treated as combatants.”

The second statement is going to draw more argument. That’s the one social media algorithms are vastly more likely to favor and promote.


This is why people who suspend critical thought and let the algorithm take the wheel invariably start to skew far right - because the algorithms skews far right.

Twitter’s research shows that its algorithm favors conservative views

Twitter doesn’t know what causes this issue

www.theverge.com

according to your logic, Donald Trump doesn't need to lie about these things, run on strict abortion bans, getting rid of gay marriage, and reporting everyone and win.

that's obviously not true. hence all the lying.

This has absolutely nothing to do with my logic. You’re the one arguing that voters are more negatively polarized by a purported “extremism” on social issues for which you’ve offered no specific policy examples than they are on overt bigotry.

If you think Trump’s bigotry is unpopular, why exactly are we supposed to ignore it?

You’ve said you’re optimistic about the potential for Democrats’ economic policies to triumph over demagoguery - but you have so little faith in them that you think Democrats need to triangulate even further on social issues, as if abandoning them could only have an additive effect. That’s just false on its face.

What’s the primary appeal of calls for “tangibles?” That Democrats have gone too far - or that they haven’t actually done enough to deserve the loyalty they currently enjoy? You can go down the list. Pick a group: Democrats have gone too far, or they haven’t done enough and I may as well just take that tax cut and go it alone because coalition politics have failed me? A lot of the grievance politics stem from jealous resentment: “Democrats gave rights to gay couples. What have they done for me?” “Democrats give handouts to non-citizens and the unemployed. What are they doing for me?”

Why do low propensity voters stay home? They think it won’t matter, that “both sides are the same” and nothing fundamentally changes regardless of who wins any given election.

And you think more moderation is the answer?

The Republican base is largely homogenous. They need only appeal to selfishness.
Democrats function as a coalition: I’ll fight for you if you fight for me. That coalition fractures when people feel like other members of the collective aren’t living up to their end of the bargain. You’re not accounting for this.


Likewise, I’m not sure why you think Trump’s rampant dishonesty operates in your favor here.

How exactly is “moderate harder” supposed to work when Trump and his “influencer” surrogates can simply lie about Democrats’ positions and claim they’re for infanticide, importing criminals, and compulsory gender reassignment surgeries for veterans? What’s going to cut through the din of misinformation? Politics as usual? Nothing captivates the imagination of voters like the status quo.


Harris did on immigration exactly what you think she should do on social issues generally.

How’d that work out?

This is a theory in search of facts. You’re projecting your own personal preferences on to a foreign electorate.

yes they hated him because Trump lies about moderation were exposed as lies, and he ran an extremely right wing administration. if trump does the abortion ban, and does the deportation camps and the tariffs.

he will be unpopular again, none of this means the american people want socialism or whatever is even further left of biden.

“Americans don’t want leftist economic policies” is an interesting takeaway at a time when swing voters acted as though Biden’s greatest failure was not implementing price controls on groceries.



So when Trump’s magical promises fail to materialize, his voters discover that they can’t pay their rent with liberal tears, and he again leaves the country in ruin - the same circumstances that resulted in what you described as the most far left administration in American history - your theory is that Americans won’t want to see any significant changes?

This is just internally incoherent. You want Democrats to be more radical about zoning and housing policies - and this, at least, is well reasoned.

Voters want more than mere lip service. Biden could have delivered considerably more if not for moderate (and now unelectable) saboteurs like Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema.

There’s broad agreement here that Democrats haven’t done enough to deliver meaningful quality of life improvements to working people. Most people, especially here, would like to see that change.

You believe that this goal is mutually exclusive to meaningfully addressing other needs - including basic safety - for those who’ve been targeted for violence and discrimination on the basis of identity. Okay.

You go ahead and channel Adin Ross viewers when casting your vote for Prime Minister if you want.


I suspect that most of us here respect the primary process and will vote for the best viable option in the general election, even if that person does once again wind up being a moderate, but if you want people here to start adopting a policy of preemptive surrender and accommodationism when selecting candidates you’re going to have to do a lot better than this to convince us.

So much innovation.

Let’s put tech investors in charge of everything.

Move fast and break things.

 

[IATT]

 

[cubanref]

You knew this was coming. Absolutely pathetic! We are the joke of the world with this dingbat having a cabinet position! Does anyone want to guess the position she's gonna be up for?

Might as well let her run Space Force

 

[dmbrhs]

You knew this was coming. Absolutely pathetic! We are the joke of the world with this dingbat having a cabinet position! Does anyone want to guess the position she's gonna be up for?

Getting the MAGAs out of Congress could backfire spectacularly.

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[dmbrhs]

The funniest part of Trump's plan to deport people is that the countries have to accept them. They will all say "no". Fire up the detention camps.

 

[gry60]

It worked great for Obama.

It was a much different time.

In 2008, there was still a sense of shared reality.

 

[gry60]

https://www.npr.org/2024/11/18/nx-s1-5192918/spacex-amazon-nlrb-labor-board-elon-musk

In the nearly four years that Joe Biden has been president, the National Labor Relations Board has taken an assertive — some say overly aggressive — approach to protecting workers' rights to organize and collectively bargain.

Now, SpaceX and Amazon are at the forefront of a corporate-led effort to monumentally change the labor agency. On Monday, attorneys for the two companies will try to convince a panel of judges at the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals that the labor agency, created by Congress in 1935, is unconstitutional.

They're not just undoing Biden's achievements; they're attacking elements of the New Deal too.

Enjoy your weekends and PTOs while you can.

 

[Belgium]

Hasan Piker's Plan to Stop Donald Trump;

1. **** on Democrats

2. ?????

3. Donald Trump is Stopped


like wut

Obviously no one should just uncritically glaze a party but the extent of it results in fostering a community like this.
Every single post arguing that cutting of your nose to spite your face is stupid is downvoted, all the posts morally grandstanding about third party or abstaining are massively upvoted.
Take in mind, these are also the same people who proudly cheer on China's annexation of Tibet, which killed tens of thousands, because invading other countries is only bad when America does it.

 

[jshortt]

Might as well let her run Space Force

This is the first thing I thought too. Let her expose the Jewish space lasers and weather controlling equipment.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

It was a much different time.

In 2008, there was still a sense of shared reality.

it seems to work for swing district house candidates, and swing state senate candidates.

how about we try it first and see, before dismissing it out of hand.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

This has absolutely nothing to do with my logic. You’re the one arguing that voters are more negatively polarized by a purported “extremism” on social issues for which you’ve offered no specific policy examples than they are on overt bigotry.

you can correct me if im wrong,

but you've been making the claim, donald trump doesn't need to moderate, that he ran on pure base mobilization
so there for moderating is pointless no?

my point is he does try to strategically moderate, he does try to appeal to other groups,
if it were really true that Donald Trump could win on pure base mobilization with zero moderation, why does Donald Trump, the person with the most stake constantly lie about his positions to appear more moderate?
even he knows it's in his interest to appear moderate on certain subjects.

If you think Trump’s bigotry is unpopular, why exactly are we supposed to ignore it?

again you can be against bigotry without embracing niche left cultural ideas.

You’ve said you’re optimistic about the potential for Democrats’ economic policies to triumph over demagoguery - but you have so little faith in them that you think Democrats need to triangulate even further on social issues, as if abandoning them could only have an additive effect. That’s just false on its face.

What’s the primary appeal of calls for “tangibles?” That Democrats have gone too far - or that they haven’t actually done enough to deserve the loyalty they currently enjoy? You can go down the list. Pick a group: Democrats have gone too far, or they haven’t done enough and I may as well just take that tax cut and go it alone because coalition politics have failed me? A lot of the grievance politics stem from jealous resentment: “Democrats gave rights to gay couples. What have they done for me?” “Democrats give handouts to non-citizens and the unemployed. What are they doing for me?”

Biden is the most pro union president ever and is losing rank and file union members to Trump,
Left wing economic policy is good policy but I don't know how to look at the democrats slide with working class voters post Bill Clinton and think,
left wing economics can overcome cultural distance. it's pretty to clear that it hasn't.

Why do low propensity voters stay home? They think it won’t matter, that “both sides are the same” and nothing fundamentally changes regardless of who wins any given election.

low propensity voters are more moderate than high propensity voters, so its pretty doubtful that more stringent ideological commitment to leftism is what is needed to get them to come out.
imo the idea that "both sides are the same" is mostly because of the filibuster and the nature of bicameral presidential systems.

people assume gridlock = corruption. when in reality it's just the filibuster

And you think more moderation is the answer?

The Republican base is largely homogenous. They need only appeal to selfishness.
Democrats function as a coalition: I’ll fight for you if you fight for me. That coalition fractures when people feel like other members of the collective aren’t living up to their end of the bargain. You’re not accounting for this.

again you keep assuming left wing niche cultural ideas are what constitutes "fighting for me". I don't think this is true.
I think you can fight for people without embracing the unpopular ideas of activists groups that are unrepresentative of the people they claim to represent.

Likewise, I’m not sure why you think Trump’s rampant dishonesty operates in your favor here.

How exactly is “moderate harder” supposed to work when Trump and his “influencer” surrogates can simply lie about Democrats’ positions and claim they’re for infanticide, importing criminals, and compulsory gender reassignment surgeries for veterans? What’s going to cut through the din of misinformation? Politics as usual? Nothing captivates the imagination of voters like the status quo.


Harris did on immigration exactly what you think she should do on social issues generally.

How’d that work out?

it worked, a day late and a dollar short, if you look at the difference between the swing states and non swing states, she was able to blunt the red shift by quite a bit.
I think moderating on immigration absolutely helped. but its hard to undo the damage done by Biden dragging his feet on this subject.

is the argument she does better if she doesn't? really? immigration is like 2nd cited concern after immigration in exit polls.

This is a theory in search of facts. You’re projecting your own personal preferences on to a foreign electorate.

i was a huge defender of bidens record as president. I hoped that it would be enough to overcome all these cultural problems.
Its clear that its not.

“Americans don’t want leftist economic policies” is an interesting takeaway at a time when swing voters acted as though Biden’s greatest failure was not implementing price controls on groceries.

it's not enough to overcome right wing populism.
im a YIMBY shill but don't think you can YIMBY your way from seeming culturally distinct from the electorate.

So when Trump’s magical promises fail to materialize, his voters discover that they can’t pay their rent with liberal tears, and he again leaves the country in ruin - the same circumstances that resulted in what you described as the most far left administration in American history - your theory is that Americans won’t want to see any significant changes?

This is just internally incoherent. You want Democrats to be more radical about zoning and housing policies - and this, at least, is well reasoned.

Voters want more than mere lip service. Biden could have delivered considerably more if not for moderate (and now unelectable) saboteurs like Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema.

There’s broad agreement here that Democrats haven’t done enough to deliver meaningful quality of life improvements to working people. Most people, especially here, would like to see that change.

You believe that this goal is mutually exclusive to meaningfully addressing other needs - including basic safety - for those who’ve been targeted for violence and discrimination on the basis of identity. Okay.

Biden did a ton, this idea if he only left winged harder, is wild to me. it underrates Biden's accomplishments and overrates the electoral impact of left wing economic policies.
i just don't know how you square with the performance of democrats with working class people. post clinton and post obama.

 

[Public Enemy]

Marlon Wayans Sheds Light On His Journey From Denial To Acceptance Of His Trans Son

Marlon Wayans is setting the example for what it means to be a supportive parent and love your children unconditionally. In a recent interview on The Breakfast Club, the 51-year-old actor spoke openly about his son, Kai, being transgender."I have a daughter that transitioned into a son," he told...

www.xonecole.com

"The comedian told the morning show that he plans to share his journey from denial to acceptance in a forthcoming comedy special that he’ll likely entitle, Rainbow Child. “My transition as a parent, going from ignorance and denial to complete unconditional love and acceptance," he shared about the special.

Wayans hopes that his special will help other parents of trans children or those undergoing transition. While he explains that the shift within his family was “a very painful situation” for him, he believes that his reflective approach to the experience will be “one of the best, funniest hours [of comedy] I could ever imagine.”

Along with his son Kai, Wayans also shares a 21-year-old son, Shawn, with his ex, Angelica Zachary.

"They see me trying, and I’m happy, but I have to respect their wishes," he added.

The White Chicks star isn’t afraid to admit that he’s “still working on my pronouns,” nevertheless, his ultimate goal is for his children to be “free.”

"I want them to be free in spirit, free in thought, free to be themselves,” he said. “The more you know yourself, the more you can govern yourself; the more you live your truth, the happier your existence."

"If they can’t get that in the household with their father and their mother, how the f--- do I send them out into the world with that kind of confidence?” he continues. "I’m just so proud of them being them."

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Democrats need to follow the example of Nancy "Moderate" Mace if they ever want to get back the valuable canadian vote

how strong is your argument if you need to lie about me to make it?

i've said 10 million times bathroom bans are unpopular. this would be the opposite of anything i've ever advised anyone.

 

[rolaholic]

Definitely a leader that you need to be following their lead...



They're all very transparently telling everyone that it's about to get really rough for them soon and a lot of people are enthusiastically marching along saying to themselves 'oh well they only mean for them, they don't mean us too'

 

[sfc415]

i've said 10 million times bathroom bans are unpopular. this would be the opposite of anything i've ever advised anyone.

You don’t even know what’s popular or unpopular in this country. Your entire view of everything about the US population comes from 24 hours of scrolling through Twitter, based on how often you rant about activists, and then you use that “knowledge” to show how smart you are to us idiots on Niketalk.

You’ve spent hundreds of pages lecturing people about what minorities and working class in the US go through, despite not being one of them and not living here and interacting with them on a daily basis.

Anytime anyone tells you about how real life is here, your go to is “that’s a brain dead take” or whatever dismissive comment with laughing smilies you want to post today to make yourself sound intelligent and unbothered.

To be fair you do this with every single topic I’ve ever interacted with you on, so I don’t even know why I even bothered to write this essay. I just see a huge disconnect between someone claiming to be mature and intelligent while also refusing to listen to anyone else or admit he’s wrong or uninformed about ANYTHING .

 

[osh kosh bosh]

You don’t even know what’s popular or unpopular in this country. Your entire view of everything about the US population comes from 24 hours of scrolling through Twitter, based on how often you rant about activists, and then you use that “knowledge” to show how smart you are to us idiots on Niketalk.

You’ve spent hundreds of pages lecturing people about what minorities and working class in the US go through, despite not being one of them and not living here and interacting with them on a daily basis.

Anytime anyone tells you about how real life is here, your go to is “that’s a brain dead take” or whatever dismissive comment with laughing smilies you want to post today to make yourself sound intelligent and unbothered.

To be fair you do this with every single topic I’ve ever interacted with you on, so I don’t even know why I even bothered to write this essay. I just see a huge disconnect between someone claiming to be mature and intelligent while also refusing to listen to anyone else or admit he’s wrong or uninformed about ANYTHING .

No my view of this comes from looking at polling data and the results of American elections since like 2008.

Anti trans bathroom bans create electoral backlash. You can look at North Carolina.

Trans women in sports is underwater with every demographic including democrats. And TRANS ACTIVISTS ORGA admit that they have found no good counter messaging that works to change peoples minds.

For the first time Dems brand is actuated more with socio cultural issues than the working class.

Exit polling found that focus on social and cultural issues over governing as one of the top concerns with swing voters.


Extremism over things like police reform are strongly correlated with swing voters breaking for Trump.





You can dislike me if you want, but everything I said has plenty of evidence behind it. You can disagree, but I'm not making it up.

 

[sneaksoy]

So we’re not supposed to rely on issue polling, unless it supports our position?

 

[sfc415]

Anyone who isn’t terminally online and actually lives and in this country: how often have you been bombarded with “niche left wing” campaigning by Kamala Harris or anyone in general? How often has any importance been placed on whether you want transgender athletes in sports or not? How often do you even see any trans activists in day to day life?

On the other hand, how often have Republicans and right wing influencers been fear mongering about how Democrats are pushing some type of transgender/gay agenda “down your throats”?

Which of the two do you think is the cause of people wanting to be more “moderate” ( ) ?

 

[kdawg]

Obviously no one should just uncritically glaze a party but the extent of it results in fostering a community like this.
Every single post arguing that cutting of your nose to spite your face is stupid is downvoted, all the posts morally grandstanding about third party or abstaining are massively upvoted.
Take in mind, these are also the same people who proudly cheer on China's annexation of Tibet, which killed tens of thousands, because invading other countries is only bad when America does it.

Last night my son had me proofread a paper for a constitutional law class he is taking in his final year of law school. It was essentially about the repeal of Roe v Wade but one part that jumped out at me was the opinion of the Supreme Court (at least some of them anyway - the ones you'd expect) that many other rights that have been enjoyed by citizens for a long time are not explicitly allowed by the Constitution - so basically all of them are fair game if they want to strip those away as well. That's a pretty terrifying prospect - especially the way the makeup of the court is going to be after Trump2.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

So we’re not supposed to rely on issue polling, unless it supports our position?

No, issue polling pushed by activist groups with no negative partisan framing is incredibly misleading. You should be skeptical.

Transwomen in sports is not one of these issues. Even when activist groups do the polling it is still incredibly unpopular.

Issues polling is better than nothing. But it's not an argument ender especially when it's done by activist orga.

Data for progress does better issue polling.