***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Raji Lowenthal]

but what if hes brown





and doesnt have papers

Spoiler

just kidding
hes mainly white

and has papers

As long as he's not poor he'll be fine. Green is the only color at this point.

 

[dacomeup]

Biden ran the most progressive administration of all time.

he basically moved to the left on every issue,


Leftist give him no credit for it,
and have the nerve to tell Dems we have to move further to the left.

Im not even saying you have to moderate that much on policy,
I think you just gotta talk differently about it,

but apparently this is just too far.

Kamala just ran a super moderate campaign and got SMOKED. Biden ran a progressive administration and ran into inflation from the pandemic. There’s nothing more moderate that Kamala could’ve done.

 

[gry60]

I disagree. Democracy only works if you abide by the votes of the people. She may very well still believe that he will take away democracy, and I’d be right there beside her believing that same notion. But if the people vote for fascism, are perfectly fine with having their voice suppressed, and want to see an agent of chaos wreak havoc, it would be hypocritical of her to say the election was rigged or even try to influence Biden into disqualifying the election. Because at that point she would become exactly what they are. behind the scenes she’s probably thinking the same thing we are, “he’s gonna **** this up again.“ But at face, she had to be gracious in defeat even if she’s seething at her core.

The notion that she isn't worried about the future of the country is ridiculous, especially when Biden has put in place roadblocks to keep Trump from implementing policies like Schedule F.

AFGE Applauds Biden Administration for Protecting Federal Workforce from Politicization

The Biden administration last week issued a final regulation to protect federal workers from being stripped of their workplace protections if there’s the return of the Trump policy seeking to make federal employees at-will workers.

www.afge.org

Here's the thing that rubs me the wrong way: Kamala lost the popular vote, not because Trump's base grew, but because the Dem base collapsed; the base collapsed because of a successful campaign to deny Democrats the votes they relied on, and everything from her appeal to Never Trumpers to Biden's policy on Gaza was used as a pretext to depress her vote. She closely lost MI and WI.

Those folks put their priorities ahead of the bigger goal of keeping Trump out of the WH. Now, they want to critique how she talks? They want to have a coalition outside the system? Who would want to associate with unreliable people who can't see the forest for the trees? They are just as selfish as Trump.

 

[Armada]

Kamala just ran a super moderate campaign and got SMOKED. Biden ran a progressive administration and ran into inflation from the pandemic. There’s nothing more moderate that Kamala could’ve done.

Yea I don’t think the solution is to go more moderate. I really think it’s to just do more progressive stuff like this administration did just describe it in simple terms kinda like Walz and his just be a good neighbor stuff. And most importantly I’ve realized with someone people actually like and look competent in front of camera. Voters try to act like that don’t matter but it does even to progressives so many people just move off vibes.

A lot of my fellow progressives I’ve found are just full of **** just like the rest of the electorate. I do agree with what Osh is saying Biden instituted a lot of progressive policies and got no credit for it from the left. I don’t think he didn’t get credit for it cause people don’t really care about that stuff and the left deemed it not good enough. He didnt get credit cause they don’t like HIM. The messenger matters a lot almost to a childish level if it was Bernie doing the exact same stuff Biden did these 4 years it’s reposted all over leftist circles and in group chats and they’d be lock step cause they like him.

I think that mattered with people left of center too he may have gotten more bail on the situation with the economy and the work that needed to be done post covid and post trump tax policies if they liked him but they don’t the “just a old man don’t know what he doing” stuff really set in with people across the board.

 

[keko jones]

I disagree. Democracy only works if you abide by the votes of the people. She may very well still believe that he will take away democracy, and I’d be right there beside her believing that same notion. But if the people vote for fascism, are perfectly fine with having their voice suppressed, and want to see an agent of chaos wreak havoc, it would be hypocritical of her to say the election was rigged or even try to influence Biden into disqualifying the election. Because at that point she would become exactly what they are. behind the scenes she’s probably thinking the same thing we are, “he’s gonna **** this up again.“ But at face, she had to be gracious in defeat even if she’s seething at her core.

You could concede defeat while delivering a distinct message. This is where the party seems out of touch; her speech was nearly identical to the one Hillary gave.

It should have been more along the lines of:

Thank you. Although these aren't the results we had hoped for, the majority has spoken, and we will work to ensure a smooth and respectful transition. Make no mistake—I have always been deeply committed to America and our people. While I sincerely hope for the best in the coming years, I urge all of you to be prepared for hard times and challenges ahead. Decisions will be made that will have lasting impacts on our Supreme Court, our economy, and our national values.

This is why it’s crucial that we start rebuilding and strengthening our foundation now, with hard work and resilience from today through 2028. Our campaign's purpose doesn’t end here; in fact, this moment should inspire us to double down, energizing every one of us for the work that lies ahead. America will need us, and together, we will be ready.

Mr. Trump, I wish you the very best in leading our great nation. This is an enormous responsibility—please, don’t let us down, again.

 

[had pants]

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

Rotterdam in the Netherlands?

That's an apples to oranges comparison. Europe doesn't have as much space as we have here when you factor in the population. Rotterdam is extremely densely populated. Not to mention we have building materials here readily available like lumber whereas they have to import it.

Wouldn’t these differences actually make the corporate ownership drives up prices theory more profound in Rotterdam?

I feel like you given more evidence to Osh’s point…

 

[tomdiginson]

Nvm.

 

[LD7]

I’m happy he won.

I can’t wait until ‘26-27 to hear the excuses on why America failed.

I really can’t wait for ‘25 when his tax plan expires, the tariffs begin, and their dream of a, “better economy with more money in our pockets,” turns into the reality that he inherited a great economy the first term and he ruined the progress America has made since the pandemic.

It’s like waiting for those 11s to drop back in the day. Can’t freaking wait.

 

[Beans]

They are gonna blame Joe and say this is all his fault/policies that we are still dealing with.

 

[maq25060]

it would be hypocritical of her to say the election was rigged or even try to influence Biden into disqualifying the election. Because at that point she would become exactly what they are. behind the scenes she’s probably thinking the same thing we are, “he’s gonna **** this up again.“ But at face, she had to be gracious in defeat even if she’s seething at her core.

I don't think she has to say the election was rigged or possibly ask Biden to step in to stick to the same messaging.

She can say she accepts the result while still pointing out the potential dangers selected by the American people. It wouldn't have gone over well with the public and thus her party would have hated it too, but I'm 100 percent in agreement with Rex. You were either being hyperbolic, conjuring up fear in an effort to win or you're the other wing on the same bird as the fascist.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

What Republican control of Washington could mean for D.C.

The U.S. House is D.C.'s last hope for a bastion of resistance in federal Washington.

51st.news

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

I’m happy he won.

I can’t wait until ‘26-27 to hear the excuses on why America failed.

I really can’t wait for ‘25 when his tax plan expires, the tariffs begin, and their dream of a, “better economy with more money in our pockets,” turns into the reality that he inherited a great economy the first term and he ruined the progress America has made since the pandemic.

It’s like waiting for those 11s to drop back in the day. Can’t freaking wait.

As someone who lived through Reagan, I will tell you that you need to be prepared for the mythologizing of Trump as one of the greatest leaders the Right has ever had.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Kamala just ran a super moderate campaign and got SMOKED. Biden ran a progressive administration and ran into inflation from the pandemic. There’s nothing more moderate that Kamala could’ve done.

Kamala moderate campaign in 100 days took a guaranteed loss to a coin flip.

She improved her approval rating, and she did better in places she campaigned vs places that she didn't.

And your conclusion from all this is the voters actually wanted Biden? I think that's crazy.

Her campaign was working, there just wasn't enough time and she couldn't seperate from Biden.


Also her super moderate campaign basically only moderated rhetorically and she didn't really pick any fights with anyone on her left.

She basically split the baby.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Rotterdam in the Netherlands?

That's an apples to oranges comparison. Europe doesn't have as much space as we have here when you factor in the population. Rotterdam is extremely densely populated. Not to mention we have building materials here readily available like lumber whereas they have to import it.

So? Rotterdam is also a market with constricted supply like many American cities.

The difference is American cities supply is constricted by government regulation not lack of space.


If anything the difference between Rotterdam and American cities support my conclusion.

Building more housing is the most important thing.

 

[ghenges]

Listen from about the 9 minute mark for about a minute on what Socrates has to say about democracy.

 

[superblytrife]

I dont think I can physically make it through another 4 years of a Trump news cycle **** show every single day man. I really dont.
4 years isnt a small amount of time, its 5% of our lives and he took 5% already.
The last 4 years was a blessing honestly, things were mostly normal, politics were normal like they always are under dems. He's gonna eff so much up just off the fact he owes a lot to his donors now and they all want their investment back. Makes me sick to think how many future candidates might follow Trump's playbook and win again because it seems thats what people like now

Once it was apparent Harris wasn’t gonna win, I turned the news off and haven’t watched it since. And I really have no plans to from here on out. I’ll catch blurbs here and there about the ******* that is guaranteed to ensue with another Trump administration. But yeah—I’m mostly checked out. Zero chance I’m gonna get caught up in the 24/7 coverage of all the stupid **** he does/says this time. Gonna keep my head down, hope for the best and prepare for the worst. And occasionally laugh at the idiots who inevitably will find out they voted against their own interests.

On a related note, the media is probably still creaming their jeans at this very moment. Ultimately this was the best possible outcome for their 24/7, breaking news model of business. I just can’t do it though.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Whatever direction you think the Dems should move.

We can't stifle debate by calling people racist.
This has to stop.


If you think actually the democrats need to move further left, fineI think that's crazy,

but im not gunna sit here and say you're racist because you don't care about our latinx brothers abandoning the party.

 

[pmatic]

 

[heelsandeers]

However, I want to know a)what concrete policy Trump offers that will fix the cost of living for the average American and b)how it’s superior to what Democrats had to offer.

I swear, if someone can give me something other than “Biden’s economy is the worst so why not try with Trump” or “MAGAAA!!! Cry Libs!!” I’ll gladly admit that Trump is a superior choice in this aspect.

It’s amusing that the guy who is a huge opponent of free trade (really one of his only consistent policy positions across decades) just won an election railing against higher consumer prices

In MAGA land they believe it’s possible to both return tons of manufacturing jobs to the country and keep everything at Wal-Mart the same price

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Yea I don’t think the solution is to go more moderate. I really think it’s to just do more progressive stuff like this administration did just describe it in simple terms kinda like Walz and his just be a good neighbor stuff. And most importantly I’ve realized with someone people actually like and look competent in front of camera. Voters try to act like that don’t matter but it does even to progressives so many people just move off vibes.

A lot of my fellow progressives I’ve found are just full of **** just like the rest of the electorate. I do agree with what Osh is saying Biden instituted a lot of progressive policies and got no credit for it from the left. I don’t think he didn’t get credit for it cause people don’t really care about that stuff and the left deemed it not good enough. He didnt get credit cause they don’t like HIM. The messenger matters a lot almost to a childish level if it was Bernie doing the exact same stuff Biden did these 4 years it’s reposted all over leftist circles and in group chats and they’d be lock step cause they like him.

I think that mattered with people left of center too he may have gotten more bail on the situation with the economy and the work that needed to be done post covid and post trump tax policies if they liked him but they don’t the “just a old man don’t know what he doing” stuff really set in with people across the board.

When I say moderate, I mean moderate culturally.

go back to selling democratic party ideas in terms non college educated people can understand.

and ditch culture war stuff that is now losing Democrats minorities.


I don't have a problem with Bidens policies, I agree with most of them. but its clear you can only win so many votes with it.


the democratic brand needs to be fixed.
It's non viable in more and more parts of the country and its clear latino voters aren't going to save you.

 

[Beans]

On a related note, the media is probably still creaming their jeans at this very moment. Ultimately this was the best possible outcome for their 24/7, breaking news model of business. I just can’t do it though.

We really need to hold new channels more accountable for the damage they have and will continue to do.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

again I must stress, these people are losers.

never ever engage in ideas. It's all identity based attacks all the time. this has gotta stop.

i thought fetterman went a little bit too far with the moderation.

but you look at his approvals....I don't think so.